Making Disciples

[amigo de christo]

Amen. The scriptures don't teach that man can be saved by his own righteousness.........they teach the exact opposite. The Law was even given for one thing to teach that very lesson and tutor Israel as to their and everyone's need for the Messiah........man's righteousness always falls short.....of the GLORY....and if ye have not the Son ye have not the Father either. There is only one sacrifice and pure fire that is meet for heaven/glory and that is heaven's sacrifice and fire, not of our own. Anything that is of man's own is strange fire. And the lesson of scripture teaching the consequence of offering strange fire.....is death, not Life.

I agree there is a need to "come up higher" and be in the Spirit and fully consecrated....but can't drink from a well that unfortunately denies so much fundamental truth that it is another gospel altogether.

when come up higher and be in the SPIRIT
wont preach the dire need to believe on JESUS the CHRIST
but rather gives the idea that MAN can just do this apart from faith , YEah its not COMING UP HIGHER and BEING the SPIRIT
its rather called deception . Doing exactly what you just wrote dear sister , being saved by his own righteousness .
WHICH as you well pointed out , IS IMPOSSIBLE for man .
WHO then can be saved
With man this is IMPOSSIBLE
but with GOD all things are possible . AND THE PLAN OF GOD to be saved , WAS TO BELIEVE ON JESUS THE CHRIST .
Its really quite that simple sister .

 

[amigo de christo]

I believe that there is no one good but God, Epi. And I identify myself as having no righteousness of my own but being in need of Christ the same as every living soul on the planet.

For you are made RIGHTEOUS in CHRIST .
having not my own righteousness , which is of the law , but having the RIGHTEOUSNESS of GOD which is by FAITH IN CHRIST JESUS .
FOR BY THE LAW SHALL NO MAN be JUSTIFIED IN HIS SIGHT
for all have sinned and all fall FAR FAR FAR SHORT of the GLORY OF GOD .
and who is the GLORY OF GOD .
JESUS THE CHRIST IS THE GLORY of GOD . IN HIM we have all hope , in HE ALONE are we counted RIGHTEOUS
and by HIM , by THE SPIRIT , we now live righteously , doing that which is righteous in the sight of GOD .
IT BE , BY HIM ALONE that we have that new heart and new desire .
THE DESIRE that GOD has always desired for man . THAT WE WALK PLEASING UNTO HIM .
The new convenant , IN CHRIST JESUS , writes that which pleases GOD upon our hearts
and instructs us to no longer embrace the darkness we once did
AS IT has translated us from darkness into LIGHT . and LIGHT does make manifest .
Many believe they walk in the LIGHT , but they have put Light for darkness and darkness for light .
They know not at what they stumble . A man who walks in the darkness of night
stumbles , but knows not at what he stumbles . He cannot see , he cannot avoid the pot holes
of sin . At best he can fool himself as though he do walk righteously
but , He will sin and worse so even comit the great sin . The great sin of UNBELIEF .
No man can attain . ONLY IN CHRIST can one attain.
Only in CHRIST can one be apprhended .
LOOK at who gets all the credit at this speech i wrote . IT AINT ME and IT AINT MAN , ITS GOD AND HIS CHRIST .
SOMETHING that many have not learned . . IF our words glorify us and etc , NOT GOD , NOT HIS CHRIST
then we are but vain and still in our sin and walk in darkness and have none to lead us .
Man will always do what seemeth best to him . But lambs will do as GOD , As CHRIST , as the SPIRIT bids them to do .
many are in grave danger , and not only from their own self , but also are a danger to many . A man who preaches
concepts of The teachings of Christ , but refuses to preach the one true gospel ,
is a man that though he cries , I SEE , I SEE , he is but blind and the blindness is all that he has .

 

[Lizbeth]

God is on a level all His own. Good catch!

But you claim to have God's own righteousness for yourself...based on an introspective bible reading??? Is that from humility? Or that all bible enthusists have that level of righteousness?

A clever mimicking of Paul's words doesn't equal being an apostle or a saint.

Think you should stop trying to tell people what they are "claiming". I "claim" nothing. What are you claiming?

 

[Episkopos]

Think you should stop trying to tell people what they are "claiming". I "claim" nothing. What are you claiming?

I claim that correction is only seen as being judgmental by those who still love their own rebellious ways.

 

[amigo de christo]

Think you should stop trying to tell people what they are "claiming". I "claim" nothing. What are you claiming?

Time for boldness , time to make a stand .
I CLAIM , with zero apology , RIGHTEOUSNESS . ONLY I didnt make myself righteous , AS EPI HIMSELF do .
MINE CAME FROM GOD , A GIFT GIVEN ME IN JESUS THE CHRIST .
A RIGHTEOUSNESS that came Not from me , BUT FROM GOD and made me RIGHTEOUS .
DONT YOU aplogize to epi . I CLAIM JESUS THE CHRIST as MY RIGHTEOUNESS
TO BELIEVE ON HIM AND ON HE ALONE . AND i frankly care not if epi and his OWN SELF RIGHTEOUSNESS
comes after me who cliams MY RIGHTEOUSNESS AS A GIFT BY GOD IN CHRIST .
SO , YOU BET I make such a cliam . and may EPI and all HEAR IT REAL LOUD .
THERE IS NOTHING GOOD IN ME BUT THE HOLY SPIRIT OF GOD ,I CANNOT PICK UP MY CROSS
NOR can any man , LEST THEY BELEIVE ON HE WHO WAS FIRST CRUCIFIED ON SAID CROSS .

ZERO apologies i do make . MY righteousness cometh not from me , I WAS WORST OF THE WORST
and Even now the ONLY GOODNESS i have within me IS OF GOD , BY HIS SPIRIT
that even works IN ME and even GIVES ME , the desire to do good and the ability to do so .
BUT EPI THINKETH THAT IS SELF , THAT IS EGO . rather odd cause i sure
dont point to me sister . I POINT TO JESUS THE CHRIST and I DO SAY and will say and will not apologize
for saying , YE MUST ABSOLUTELY BELIEVE IN HIM , OR EVERYTHING YA DO IS IN VAIN . IN VAIN . IN VAIN and IN VAIN .
EPI will pay a heavy and dear price , LEST HE REPENT , on the day OF THE LORD .

 

[Episkopos]

Time for boldness , time to make a stand .
I CLAIM , with zero apology , RIGHTEOUSNESS .

Claiming righteousness for oneself. I know that there are many here who are afraid to admit how they see themselves. Naming and claiming righteousness for themselves. No such honesty among those who claim and then deny it where that is more convenient. But here is an example of a namer and claimer who is unafraid to make the claim to righteousness..honest yes, and also delusional. Who else will make the claim. Many are too afraid to admit to something as obviously arrogant and deluded as this poster has no shame is stating.

ONLY I didnt make myself righteous , AS EPI HIMSELF do .

I never made you righteous. And I don't claim any kind of righteousness. That's for you namers and claimers. I fear the Lord.

MINE CAME FROM GOD , A GIFT GIVEN ME IN JESUS THE CHRIST .
A RIGHTEOUSNESS that came Not from me , BUT FROM GOD and made me RIGHTEOUS .

Notice the past tense. It's based on a false understanding of salvation..a "transactional" status that says...since I believe in Jesus I can now appropriate His righteousness for myself. This is taught in MANY churches. And the flesh loves that kind of religion...because it serves the self.

DONT YOU aplogize to epi . I CLAIM JESUS THE CHRIST as MY RIGHTEOUNESS
TO BELIEVE ON HIM AND ON HE ALONE . AND i frankly care not if epi and his OWN SELF RIGHTEOUSNESS

You are forgetting that you are the one claiming righteousness for yourself...a self-righteousness. I claim no such thing. You are assuming that since you are making yourself righteous based on certain beliefs, that I also must be doing the same thing. But that is another step into delusion.

You are not only justifying yourself but also misjudging others. People tend to see things as they are...not by any real understanding.

comes after me who cliams MY RIGHTEOUSNESS AS A GIFT BY GOD IN CHRIST .
SO , YOU BET I make such a cliam . and may EPI and all HEAR IT REAL LOUD .
THERE IS NOTHING GOOD IN ME BUT THE HOLY SPIRIT OF GOD ,I CANNOT PICK UP MY CROSS

The fact that you are unable to bear your own cross (responsibilities) is obvious...as many also won't. And that is due to a disobedience to the Lord that you say justifies you...for NOT obeying Him.

And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple.

NOR can any man , LEST THEY BELEIVE ON HE WHO WAS FIRST CRUCIFIED ON SAID CROSS .

Vain religious speak.

ZERO apologies i do make . MY righteousness cometh not from me , I WAS WORST OF THE WORST

Are you on a par with Paul or do you just like the sound of your own bombastic claims?

and Even now the ONLY GOODNESS i have within me IS OF GOD , BY HIS SPIRIT

If I had a dime for every time I heard that kind of self-justifying psycho babble. NO, you probably used to be more kind and understanding BEFORE you became a religiously conceited judgmental kind of person.

that even works IN ME and even GIVES ME , the desire to do good and the ability to do so .
BUT EPI THINKETH THAT IS SELF , THAT IS EGO . rather odd cause i sure as HELLL

As you say...sure as hell. A fitting description.

dont point to me sister .

You point to yourself. This thread is not about how justified you think you are...it's about discipleship. Since you refuse to carry your own cross...why not just take a pass on the whole subject?

I POINT TO JESUS THE CHRIST and I DO SAY and will say and will not apologize
for saying , YE MUST ABSOLUTELY BELIEVE IN HIM , OR EVERYTHING YA DO IS IN VAIN . IN VAIN . IN VAIN and IN VAIN .
EPI will pay a heavy and dear price , LEST HE REPENT , on the day OF THE LORD .

You can point all day long. There is no kingdom position of self-interested pointer. You have to walk the talk...not just talk the talk. Sooner or later all carnal believers will have an honest moment where they come clean. The flesh hides itself away...until the ego becomes so puffed up that the truth comes out. Out of the abundance of the heart...

The heart is full of evil. And an uplifted heart is more evil. Better is humility and the fear of the Lord. Not many realize this.

 

[amigo de christo]

Claiming righteousness for oneself. I know that there are many here who are afraid to admit how they see themselves. Naming and claiming righteousness for themselves. No such honesty among those who claim and then deny it where that is more convenient. But here is an example of a namer and claimer who is unafraid to make the claim to righteousness..honest yes, and also delusional. Who else will make the claim. Many are too afraid to admit to something as obviously arrogant and deluded as this poster has no shame is stating.



I never made you righteous. And I don't claim any kind of righteousness. That's for you namers and claimers. I fear the Lord.


Notice the past tense. It's based on a false understanding of salvation..a "transactional" status that says...since I believe in Jesus I can now appropriate His righteousness for myself. This is taught in MANY churches. And the flesh loves that kind of religion...because it serves the self.


You are forgetting that you are the one claiming righteousness for yourself...a self-righteousness. I claim no such thing. You are assuming that since you are making yourself righteous based on certain beliefs, that I also must be doing the same thing. But that is another step into delusion.

You are not only justifying yourself but also misjudging others. People tend to see things as they are...not by any real understanding.


The fact that you are unable to bear your own cross (responsibilities) is obvious...as many also won't. And that is due to a disobedience to the Lord that you say justifies you...for NOT obeying Him.

And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple.




Vain religious speak.


Are you on a par with Paul or do you just like the sound of your own bombastic claims?

If I had a dime for every time I heard that kind of self-justifying psycho babble. NO, you probably used to be more kind and understanding BEFORE you became a religiously conceited judgmental kind of person.



As you say...sure as hell. A fitting description.


You point to yourself. This thread is not about how justified you think you are...it's about discipleship. Since you refuse to carry your own cross...why not just take a pass on the whole subject?

You can point all day long. There is no kingdom position of self-interested pointer. You have to walk the talk...not just talk the talk. Sooner or later all carnal believers will have an honest moment where they come clean. The flesh hides itself away...until the ego becomes so puffed up that the truth comes out. Out of the abundance of the heart...

The heart is full of evil. And an uplifted heart is more evil. Better is humility and the fear of the Lord. Not many realize this.

For you are made the righteous of GOD in Christ JESUS . Believe in HIM .
Paul was no hyprocrite for claiming we are made RIGHETOUS in CHRIST . that this is the gift of GOD .
not of works lest any man should boast . Time to remind all of the absolute dire necessity to repent and beleive on JESUS
the CHRIST . to teach all to observe all things HE did teach .

 

[amigo de christo]

Think you should stop trying to tell people what they are "claiming". I "claim" nothing. What are you claiming?

The only thing we can claim is for ye are made righteous in JESUS the CHRIST .
Our righteousness is a gift . The true believer in JESUS the CHRIST would have pointed to HE alone dear sister .
Never to self , never to our own abilities APART from faith . For In HIM we do have the desire and ability
by HIS SPIRIT to do the things which please God .
As for myself the only thing i can claim is , I was one of the worst
saved and changed only by the grace of GOD and kept through faith in HE whom GOD did send .
ITS all about honoring the SON . He who honors the SON does Honor the FATHER who sent HIM .
He who dishonors the SON dishonors The FATHER who sent him .
And that through him we can do all things through HE who strengthenes us
but without him we can do nuaght but fail and walk in darkness .
HE is our hope dear sister and unto HE shall we point . Reminding all
to observe all things HE did teach , to embrace His every word as our meat
to stay refreshed in the scriptures daily and to beware for many men roam about to deceive .

 

[Lizbeth]

Time for boldness , time to make a stand .
I CLAIM , with zero apology , RIGHTEOUSNESS . ONLY I didnt make myself righteous , AS EPI HIMSELF do .
MINE CAME FROM GOD , A GIFT GIVEN ME IN JESUS THE CHRIST .
A RIGHTEOUSNESS that came Not from me , BUT FROM GOD and made me RIGHTEOUS .
DONT YOU aplogize to epi . I CLAIM JESUS THE CHRIST as MY RIGHTEOUNESS
TO BELIEVE ON HIM AND ON HE ALONE . AND i frankly care not if epi and his OWN SELF RIGHTEOUSNESS
comes after me who cliams MY RIGHTEOUSNESS AS A GIFT BY GOD IN CHRIST .
SO , YOU BET I make such a cliam . and may EPI and all HEAR IT REAL LOUD .
THERE IS NOTHING GOOD IN ME BUT THE HOLY SPIRIT OF GOD ,I CANNOT PICK UP MY CROSS
NOR can any man , LEST THEY BELEIVE ON HE WHO WAS FIRST CRUCIFIED ON SAID CROSS .

ZERO apologies i do make . MY righteousness cometh not from me , I WAS WORST OF THE WORST
and Even now the ONLY GOODNESS i have within me IS OF GOD , BY HIS SPIRIT
that even works IN ME and even GIVES ME , the desire to do good and the ability to do so .
BUT EPI THINKETH THAT IS SELF , THAT IS EGO . rather odd cause i sure as HELLL
dont point to me sister . I POINT TO JESUS THE CHRIST and I DO SAY and will say and will not apologize
for saying , YE MUST ABSOLUTELY BELIEVE IN HIM , OR EVERYTHING YA DO IS IN VAIN . IN VAIN . IN VAIN and IN VAIN .
EPI will pay a heavy and dear price , LEST HE REPENT , on the day OF THE LORD .

Amen brother, we believe and receive what is written. But we don't go around claiming things the way it is being claimed and we are being accused. We didn't write the scriptures, we just believe them. We are not claiming that any of what we have received is of our own because it is not of our own that no one may boast. Some do have that attitude I don't doubt, but it's wrong to tar everyone with that same brush based solely on refuting aspects of someone's doctrine.

To my understanding so far, this is a matter of distinguishing between what is being graciously imputed to us as opposed to what or how much of that one is actually manifesting and walking in, so that we don't deceive ourselves. Our new man is created after the image of He who created it, so must be perfect, righteous and holy.....but we are told to put off the old man and put on (walk in) the new man and reckon the old man dead/crucified. How could anyone do that if we hadn't first received that perfect new man (Christ in us the hope of glory)? And we received Him by faith.....that Word made flesh is nigh us, in our very mouths, the Word preached to us from someone's mouth, and that same Word became our testimony in our mouths now that we have believed/received Him.

We must not let anyone rob us of that testimony (foundation of new man/Christ in us) because it's by the blood of the Lamb and that very testimony (reality of the new man Christ in us) that we overcome our old man of the flesh which lusteth and wars against our new man of the Spirit! We have a journey to go and a battle to fight to get to the place of walking in the Spirit, to put on that new man. Scripture says to be still and know that I am God, and that the battle is the Lord's. That is saying a lot. I believe it means to lay down and surrender...let go and let God....which is a way of saying to surrender and let go of our old man and "let" the New Man, Christ in us......so that it is no longer I who live but Christ who lives in me. This is a tall order, impossible for man but with God all things are possible.

 

[Marvelloustime]

For you are made RIGHTEOUS in CHRIST .
having not my own righteousness , which is of the law , but having the RIGHTEOUSNESS of GOD which is by FAITH IN CHRIST JESUS .
FOR BY THE LAW SHALL NO MAN be JUSTIFIED IN HIS SIGHT
for all have sinned and all fall FAR FAR FAR SHORT of the GLORY OF GOD .
and who is the GLORY OF GOD .
JESUS THE CHRIST IS THE GLORY of GOD . IN HIM we have all hope , in HE ALONE are we counted RIGHTEOUS
and by HIM , by THE SPIRIT , we now live righteously , doing that which is righteous in the sight of GOD .
IT BE , BY HIM ALONE that we have that new heart and new desire .
THE DESIRE that GOD has always desired for man . THAT WE WALK PLEASING UNTO HIM .
The new convenant , IN CHRIST JESUS , writes that which pleases GOD upon our hearts
and instructs us to no longer embrace the darkness we once did
AS IT has translated us from darkness into LIGHT . and LIGHT does make manifest .
Many believe they walk in the LIGHT , but they have put Light for darkness and darkness for light .
They know not at what they stumble . A man who walks in the darkness of night
stumbles , but knows not at what he stumbles . He cannot see , he cannot avoid the pot holes
of sin . At best he can fool himself as though he do walk righteously
but , He will sin and worse so even comit the great sin . The great sin of UNBELIEF .
No man can attain . ONLY IN CHRIST can one attain.
Only in CHRIST can one be apprhended .
LOOK at who gets all the credit at this speech i wrote . IT AINT ME and IT AINT MAN , ITS GOD AND HIS CHRIST .
SOMETHING that many have not learned . . IF our words glorify us and etc , NOT GOD , NOT HIS CHRIST
then we are but vain and still in our sin and walk in darkness and have none to lead us .
Man will always do what seemeth best to him . But lambs will do as GOD , As CHRIST , as the SPIRIT bids them to do .
many are in grave danger , and not only from their own self , but also are a danger to many . A man who preaches
concepts of The teachings of Christ , but refuses to preach the one true gospel ,
is a man that though he cries , I SEE , I SEE , he is but blind and the blindness is all that he has .

 

[Marvelloustime]

For you are made the righteous of GOD in Christ JESUS . Believe in HIM .
Paul was no hyprocrite for claiming we are made RIGHETOUS in CHRIST . that this is the gift of GOD .
not of works lest any man should boast . Time to remind all of the absolute dire necessity to repent and beleive on JESUS
the CHRIST . to teach all to observe all things HE did teach .

Epidural misquoted brother @amigo de christo.
He only quoted part of brother @amigo de christo ’s sentence.
If one reads what brother @amigo de christo actually wrote in his post, compared to what Epi quoted. This is how things get twisted.
And I quote…

“Time for boldness , time to make a stand .
I CLAIM , with zero apology , RIGHTEOUSNESS . ONLY I didnt make myself righteous , AS EPI HIMSELF do .
MINE CAME FROM GOD , A GIFT GIVEN ME IN JESUS THE CHRIST .
A RIGHTEOUSNESS that came Not from me , BUT FROM GOD and made me RIGHTEOUS .
DONT YOU aplogize to epi . I CLAIM JESUS THE CHRIST as MY RIGHTEOUNESS
TO BELIEVE ON HIM AND ON HE ALONE . AND i frankly care not if epi and his OWN SELF RIGHTEOUSNESS
comes after me who cliams MY RIGHTEOUSNESS AS A GIFT BY GOD IN CHRIST .
SO , YOU BET I make such a cliam . and may EPI and all HEAR IT REAL LOUD .
THERE IS NOTHING GOOD IN ME BUT THE HOLY SPIRIT OF GOD ,I CANNOT PICK UP MY CROSS
NOR can any man , LEST THEY BELEIVE ON HE WHO WAS FIRST CRUCIFIED ON SAID CROSS .

ZERO apologies i do make . MY righteousness cometh not from me , I WAS WORST OF THE WORST
and Even now the ONLY GOODNESS i have within me IS OF GOD , BY HIS SPIRIT
that even works IN ME and even GIVES ME , the desire to do good and the ability to do so .
BUT EPI THINKETH THAT IS SELF , THAT IS EGO . rather odd cause i sure
dont point to me sister . I POINT TO JESUS THE CHRIST and I DO SAY and will say and will not apologize
for saying , YE MUST ABSOLUTELY BELIEVE IN HIM , OR EVERYTHING YA DO IS IN VAIN . IN VAIN . IN VAIN and IN VAIN .
EPI will pay a heavy and dear price , LEST HE REPENT , on the day OF THE LORD .”

 

[Episkopos]

Amen brother, we believe and receive what is written.

Claiming what you want...like in a cafeteria.

But we don't go around claiming things the way it is being claimed and we are being accused.

Any amount of reading skills and honesty will reveal that ADC did that very thing. So the false accusation is from yourself and a delusion that says one thing and does another.

We didn't write the scriptures, we just believe them.

You don't believe them. Blind, and naked Jesus says. And you will have none of it.

We are not claiming that any of what we have received is of our own because it is not of our own that no one may boast. Some do have that attitude I don't doubt, but it's wrong to tar everyone with that same brush based solely on refuting aspects of someone's doctrine.

I'm responding to a direct claim...without your kind of duplicitous filter. So you can pretend that ADC is being vague...but he is not. As I said...he is honest...yet deluded. You would he rather be both dishonest and deluded. That's quite something. But I already know where people are at. It comes out as I present the truth...which is rejected.

To my understanding so far, this is a matter of distinguishing between what is being graciously imputed to us as opposed to what or how much of that one is actually manifesting and walking in, so that we don't deceive ourselves.

Too late on the deception. God only imputes to us what we are actually doing, what we actually are. There is no pretend imputation possible with God. There is mercy, of course. But God judges with righteousness in truth. Unless you can believe that God judges unrighteously, your whole scheme falls apart. Again, God can show mercy...but never on those who lie, or who name and claim things for themselves based on a selective reading/hearing. That is the province of Pharisees.

Our new man is created after the image of He who created it, so must be perfect, righteous and holy

Not OUR New Man...but THE New Man. We only appropriate the New Man as a covering by a full surrender to God. The New Man is an anointing power of grace by faith that makes us walk as Jesus walked. It makes it possible to abide in Christ. It costs us EVERYTHING to be found IN Him. No sample here...but the full measure of grace. A heavenly empowering is NOT the status quo. It is basically unknown in these shallow times.

.....but we are told to put off the old man and put on (walk in) the new man and reckon the old man dead/crucified. How could anyone do that if we hadn't first received that perfect new man (Christ in us the hope of glory)?

You are confusing two different things here. The New Man is a covering...not something that goes inside a person. When the New Man is put on....the inner man containing Christ is brought out so that we can have a hope of future glory. As the inner man goes, so goes Christ in us, IF we have received Christ at regeneration. To assume that Christ is in you...in a dormant state...while a person still walks in the power of the flesh....is something that one must decide for oneself. Should people go to the throne to make their calling and election sure? I would think so. Why defend a Christ you think is already in you AGAINST a further seeking of Christ where He presently is? So I destroy the argument of a defensive religious ideology against an ACTUAL abiding in Christ. Remember that so many will suffer rejection on judgment day. You will surmise that these didn't consider that Christ was perhaps not really in them. One must go to God to activate what has been received as an initial sample of grace at regeneration. Only those who pretend to be something they are not will rail against seeking God. The whole point of the New Covenant is for that closer walk with God. You perceive my exhortation to seek God as a threat. What are you really afraid of?

And we received Him by faith.....that Word made flesh is nigh us, in our very mouths, the Word preached to us from someone's mouth, and that same Word became our testimony in our mouths now that we have believed/received Him.

The testimony is not based on a religious ideology but an actual empowering from God by grace. Our testimony is the victory we have IN Christ over all things. "Through Him I can do all things".

We must not let anyone rob us of that testimony (foundation of new man/Christ in us) because it's by the blood of the Lamb and that very testimony (reality of the new man Christ in us) that we overcome our old man of the flesh which lusteth and wars against our new man of the Spirit!

That's like saying to a new runner, let no man rob you of the finish line that in your mind you have already crossed by an ideological belief. That kind of certainty is not spiritual. Rather the bible exhorts us to run the race INTO a good testimony...not assume and presume it's all done already.

We have a journey to go and a battle to fight to get to the place of walking in the Spirit, to put on that new man. Scripture says to be still and know that I am God, and that the battle is the Lord's. That is saying a lot. I believe it means to lay down and surrender...let go and let God....which is a way of saying to surrender and let go of our old man and "let" the New Man, Christ in us......so that it is no longer I who live but Christ who lives in me. This is a tall order, impossible for man but with God all things are possible.

This I agree with. Except you continue to mix up a sample of grace with buying the field. I suggest you read the parables again. This time paying closer attention.

 

[Lizbeth]

Claiming what you want...like in a cafeteria.


Any amount of reading skills and honesty will reveal that ADC did that very thing. So the false accusation is from yourself and a delusion that says one thing and does another.


You don't believe them. Blind, and naked Jesus says. And you will have none of it.


I'm responding to a direct claim...without your kind of duplicitous filter. So you can pretend that ADC is being vague...but he is not. As I said...he is honest...yet deluded. You would he rather be both dishonest and deluded. That's quite something. But I already know where people are at. It comes out as I present the truth...which is rejected.


Too late on the deception. God only imputes to us what we are actually doing, what we actually are. There is no pretend imputation possible with God. There is mercy, of course. But God judges with righteousness in truth. Unless you can believe that God judges unrighteously, your whole scheme falls apart. Again, God can show mercy...but never on those who lie, or who name and claim things for themselves based on a selective reading/hearing. That is the province of Pharisees.


Not OUR New Man...but THE New Man. We only appropriate the New Man as a covering by a full surrender to God. The New Man is an anointing power of grace by faith that makes us walk as Jesus walked. It makes it possible to abide in Christ. It costs us EVERYTHING to be found IN Him. No sample here...but the full measure of grace. A heavenly empowering is NOT the status quo. It is basically unknown in these shallow times.


You are confusing two different things here. The New Man is a covering...not something that goes inside a person. When the New Man is put on....the inner man containing Christ is brought out so that we can have a hope of future glory. As the inner man goes, so goes Christ in us, IF we have received Christ at regeneration. To assume that Christ is in you...in a dormant state...while a person still walks in the power of the flesh....is something that one must decide for oneself. Should people go to the throne to make their calling and election sure? I would think so. Why defend a Christ you think is already in you AGAINST a further seeking of Christ where He presently is? So I destroy the argument of a defensive religious ideology against an ACTUAL abiding in Christ. Remember that so many will suffer rejection on judgment day. You will surmise that these didn't consider that Christ was perhaps not really in them. One must go to God to activate what has been received as an initial sample of grace at regeneration. Only those who pretend to be something they are not will rail against seeking God. The whole point of the New Covenant is for that closer walk with God. You perceive my exhortation to seek God as a threat. What are you really afraid of?


The testimony is not based on a religious ideology but an actual empowering from God by grace. Our testimony is the victory we have IN Christ over all things. "Through Him I can do all things".


That's like saying to a new runner, let no man rob you of the finish line that in your mind you have already crossed by an ideological belief. That kind of certainty is not spiritual. Rather the bible exhorts us to run the race INTO a good testimony...not assume and presume it's all done already.

This I agree with. Except you continue to mix up a sample of grace with buying the field. I suggest you read the parables again. This time paying closer attention.

Resentfulness is not a fruit of the Spirit Epi. It's as though you take any dissent or disagreement personally for some reason.

Can't keep up with your every point, however will just say that I agree it costs us all to buy the field where we have buried the pearl of great price......but that pearl of great price is obviously not just a little piece of the pearl.

Jesus has covenanted with us in a covenant written in His own blood....the contract has been signed and the "wine" has been drunk and we have received the bride price which seals the betrothal, which is the Holy Spirit (Christ in us)......which guarantees the marriage. The betrothal is just as legally binding as the marriage itself and is what leads to the marriage to come. (As long as the bride is faithful, otherwise divorce may ensue.) Not to be taken lightly because without the betrothal and bride price being paid there could be no marriage. This is a time when the Groom is preparing a place for His bride...and for the bride it is a time of being set apart and preparing for the marriage/union to come (in essence the Groom preparing a place and the Bride preparing herself are both the same thing, because we are HIS workmanship). It's like they are already married, but just awaiting the day when the preparations have been completed and the marriage is consummated.

How do we prepare is an important question to look at.....back in bible times marriages were generally arranged by the parents when the parties were still young and the betrothal was long, so essentially being prepared and ready for the marriage meant the young maiden had matured and grown up.

 

[Johann]

How do we prepare is an important question to look at.....back in bible times marriages were generally arranged by the parents when the parties were still young and the betrothal was long, so essentially being prepared and ready for the marriage meant the young maiden had matured and grown up.

The ancient Jewish wedding, particularly in the context of biblical times, is rich in tradition and symbolism, often reflecting the relationship between God and His people. Here’s a detailed explanation of the process, steps, and customs involved:

1. Betrothal (Erusin or Kiddushin):
The Shidduch (Matchmaking)**: The process often began with the parents or a matchmaker arranging a match. Marriages were usually arranged within the same community, and the groom's family would seek a suitable bride for their son.

The Ketubah (Marriage Contract)**: Once a match was agreed upon, the terms of the marriage were formalized in a contract called the Ketubah. This document outlined the groom's obligations to the bride, including financial responsibilities and promises of care. The Ketubah was a legal document, and it provided protection for the bride's rights within the marriage.

The Bride Price (Mohar)**: The groom paid a bride price, known as the Mohar, to the bride's family. This was not a purchase but rather a symbolic act representing the groom's commitment and responsibility. It also served as a form of insurance for the bride in case of the husband's death or divorce.

The Cup of Wine:** After the Ketubah was signed, the couple would drink from a cup of wine, symbolizing the sealing of their covenant. This act marked the official beginning of the betrothal period.

The Betrothal Period:** Unlike modern engagements, the betrothal (Erusin or Kiddushin) was legally binding and could only be broken by a formal divorce. During this period, the bride and groom were considered husband and wife, though they did not live together. The groom would go away to prepare a place for the couple, often building an addition to his father's house.

2. The Waiting Period (Preparation):
The Bride’s Preparation:** During the waiting period, which typically lasted about a year, the bride would prepare herself for the upcoming marriage. This involved gathering personal items, making her wedding garments, and spiritually preparing for her new role as a wife.

The Groom’s Preparation:** The groom was responsible for preparing a place for his bride, usually in his father’s house. This process could take time, and the groom had to ensure everything was ready before the wedding could take place.

3. The Wedding Day (Nissuin):
The Wedding Procession:** The wedding day was a time of great celebration. The groom, accompanied by his friends and family, would leave his house and go to the bride’s home to bring her back to his father's house. This event usually took place at night, and the groom's party carried torches or lamps.

The Arrival of the Groom:** The exact timing of the groom's arrival was often a surprise, and the bride and her attendants had to be ready at any moment. This part of the wedding has a strong parallel to the parable of the ten virgins in Matthew 25, where the bridegroom’s arrival is sudden.

The Wedding Ceremony:** Once the groom arrived at the bride’s home, she would be escorted by a procession back to the groom’s house. The couple would then participate in a formal wedding ceremony under a canopy (chuppah), symbolizing the new household being established.

The Blessings:** The wedding ceremony included seven blessings (Sheva Brachot) recited over a cup of wine. These blessings praised God, spoke of creation, and blessed the couple, their home, and their future together.

The Consummation:** After the ceremony, the couple would retire to a private room (known as the bridal chamber or chadar), where they would consummate the marriage. The bride would present a token of her virginity to her parents as proof, which was kept as evidence in case any disputes arose.

4. The Wedding Feast:
The Celebration:** The wedding feast was a joyful celebration that could last up to seven days. Guests would eat, drink, and celebrate with the bride and groom. This feast was a time for the community to share in the couple's joy and to honor their union.

The Significance of the Feast:** The wedding feast in ancient Jewish culture was more than just a party; it symbolized the joy and fulfillment of the covenant between the bride and groom. In a broader sense, it pointed to the ultimate fulfillment of God's promises to His people.

5. Spiritual and Messianic Symbolism:
The Bridegroom and the Bride:** In the Bible, God is often depicted as the bridegroom, and Israel or the Church as the bride. The ancient Jewish wedding customs are seen as a foreshadowing of the relationship between Christ and His Church. For example, just as the groom goes away to prepare a place, Christ has ascended to prepare a place for His followers (John 14:2-3).

The Betrothal and Covenant:** The betrothal period symbolizes the current age, where believers are "betrothed" to Christ, living in expectation of His return to take them to the marriage feast of the Lamb (Revelation 19:7-9).

The Wedding Feast:** The final wedding feast can be seen as a symbol of the future Messianic banquet, where Christ and His bride, the Church, will be united forever in the Kingdom of God.

Conclusion:
The ancient Jewish wedding was not just a social event but a deeply spiritual and covenantal act that reflected the values, beliefs, and hopes of the Jewish people. Its customs and traditions have profound implications for understanding biblical themes, particularly in how they foreshadow the relationship between God and His people. The detailed steps—from the betrothal to the final wedding feast—paint a beautiful picture of commitment, preparation, anticipation, and ultimate union, which resonate throughout the Scriptures and carry significant spiritual meaning for believers today.

Couldn't let this opportunity slip by-
J.

 

[Episkopos]

Resentfulness is not a fruit of the Spirit Epi. It's as though you take any dissent or disagreement personally for some reason.

LOL I'm not the snowflake here. And try not to be resentful of my brotherly correction.

Can't keep up with your every point, however will just say that I agree it costs us all to buy the field where we have buried the pearl of great price......but that pearl of great price is obviously not just a little piece of the pearl.

The full measure of grace costs us everything. And we know we have made the purchase when we are translated into the heavenly empowered walk. To walk as Jesus walked. That becomes our testimony. But to name and claim all the benefits of Christ from a lukewarm and divided heart AS IF that was enough to move God to bestow His grace and righteousness on us...is actually criminal.

The temptation is very great to claim something one doesn't have...because we know of its availability. And for that many will be rejected come judgment day. If these had remained humble and God fearing they would have been able to remain in a place of relative honour. But religious pride and hubris demands that the ego be promoted and exalted.

Jesus has covenanted with us in a covenant written in His own blood....the contract has been signed and the "wine" has been drunk and we have received the bride price which seals the betrothal, which is the Holy Spirit (Christ in us)......which guarantees the marriage.

false. We are in a race. The marriage is guaranteed...but not the individuals partaking of it.

The betrothal is just as legally binding as the marriage itself and is what leads to the marriage to come. (As long as the bride is faithful, otherwise divorce may ensue.)

Again, one must actually enter INTO Christ for this to happen. The woman who touched Jesus' hem was healed. Jesus said...who touched Me? So then we need to present ourselves before God to be accepted into the Beloved. The bible is good...but does not give any guarantees. Quite the opposite. The warnings of the bible are precious to those who have a little wisdom.

 

[amigo de christo]

Epidural misquoted brother @amigo de christo.
He only quoted part of brother @amigo de christo ’s sentence.
If one reads what brother @amigo de christo actually wrote in his post, compared to what Epi quoted. This is how things get twisted.
And I quote…

“Time for boldness , time to make a stand .
I CLAIM , with zero apology , RIGHTEOUSNESS . ONLY I didnt make myself righteous , AS EPI HIMSELF do .
MINE CAME FROM GOD , A GIFT GIVEN ME IN JESUS THE CHRIST .
A RIGHTEOUSNESS that came Not from me , BUT FROM GOD and made me RIGHTEOUS .
DONT YOU aplogize to epi . I CLAIM JESUS THE CHRIST as MY RIGHTEOUNESS
TO BELIEVE ON HIM AND ON HE ALONE . AND i frankly care not if epi and his OWN SELF RIGHTEOUSNESS
comes after me who cliams MY RIGHTEOUSNESS AS A GIFT BY GOD IN CHRIST .
SO , YOU BET I make such a cliam . and may EPI and all HEAR IT REAL LOUD .
THERE IS NOTHING GOOD IN ME BUT THE HOLY SPIRIT OF GOD ,I CANNOT PICK UP MY CROSS
NOR can any man , LEST THEY BELEIVE ON HE WHO WAS FIRST CRUCIFIED ON SAID CROSS .

ZERO apologies i do make . MY righteousness cometh not from me , I WAS WORST OF THE WORST
and Even now the ONLY GOODNESS i have within me IS OF GOD , BY HIS SPIRIT
that even works IN ME and even GIVES ME , the desire to do good and the ability to do so .
BUT EPI THINKETH THAT IS SELF , THAT IS EGO . rather odd cause i sure
dont point to me sister . I POINT TO JESUS THE CHRIST and I DO SAY and will say and will not apologize
for saying , YE MUST ABSOLUTELY BELIEVE IN HIM , OR EVERYTHING YA DO IS IN VAIN . IN VAIN . IN VAIN and IN VAIN .
EPI will pay a heavy and dear price , LEST HE REPENT , on the day OF THE LORD .”
View attachment 49394

 

[Lizbeth]

LOL I'm not the snowflake here. And try not to be resentful of my brotherly correction.


The full measure of grace costs us everything. And we know we have made the purchase when we are translated into the heavenly empowered walk. To walk as Jesus walked. That becomes our testimony. But to name and claim all the benefits of Christ from a lukewarm and divided heart AS IF that was enough to move God to bestow His grace and righteousness on us...is actually criminal.

The temptation is very great to claim something one doesn't have...because we know of its availability. And for that many will be rejected come judgment day. If these had remained humble and God fearing they would have been able to remain in a place of relative honour. But religious pride and hubris demands that the ego be promoted and exalted.


false. We are in a race. The marriage is guaranteed...but not the individuals partaking of it.


Again, one must actually enter INTO Christ for this to happen. The woman who touched Jesus' hem was healed. Jesus said...who touched Me? So then we need to present ourselves before God to be accepted into the Beloved. The bible is good...but does not give any guarantees. Quite the opposite. The warnings of the bible are precious to those who have a little wisdom.

You've missed the point of what I said, but I might not have been clear enough. It's not an unconditional guarantee, I agree...the bride needs to be ready and prepared and she must have been faithful. But it is a pledge/security against what is being promised. What is being promised/pledged is not more money, it is the marriage.....there is no more money going to change hands, the bride price has been paid in full.....we have been SEALED by the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts which is a pledge or guarantee against the marriage to come. In other words that is the foundation or basis on which the marriage will take place (which foundation you deny). It's not just a little sample...Jesus has given us everything He has in betrothing us to Him. Or maybe more precisely, His Father has. Those are the riches we are drawing from in order to prepare ourselves true? We are using it to "buy" our wedding garments and ornaments and perfume. After all, a young gal doesn't generally have all that "of her own".

It's too bad you didn't turn your sword into a ploughshare and try to teach from scripture how the bride is to prepare herself to become without spot or wrinkle and what that means, but you didn't take the opportunity. Too busy slashing throats.

 

[Episkopos]

You've missed the point of what I said, but I might not have been clear enough. It's not an unconditional guarantee, I agree...the bride needs to be ready and prepared and she must have been faithful. But it is a pledge/security against what is being promised. What is being promised/pledged is not more money, it is the marriage.....there is no more money going to change hands, the bride price has been paid in full.....we have been SEALED by the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts which is a pledge or guarantee against the marriage to come. In other words that is the foundation or basis on which the marriage will take place (which foundation you deny). It's not just a little sample...Jesus has given us everything He has in betrothing us to Him. Or maybe more precisely, His Father has. Those are the riches we are drawing from in order to prepare ourselves true? We are using it to "buy" our wedding garments and ornaments and perfume. After all, a young gal doesn't generally have all that "of her own".

It's too bad you didn't turn your sword into a ploughshare and try to teach from scripture how the bride is to prepare herself to become without spot or wrinkle and what that means, but you didn't take the opportunity. Too busy slashing throats.

Too busy casting down imaginations you mean. Before one can build on a solid foundation, all the wood, hay and stubble shacks need to be torn down. It's too bad you identify with the part that needs to go to the cross. Preserving what God would cut apart. Think Agag.

 

[Lizbeth]

Too busy casting down imaginations you mean. Before one can build on a solid foundation, all the wood, hay and stubble shacks need to be torn down. It's too bad you identify with the part that needs to go to the cross. Preserving what God would cut apart. Think Agag.

1Co 3:10-11
According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.
For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

(And just to also point out that the foundation of Christ in us is not wood, hay and stubble or vain imagination.)

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

Worldly people will never find the balance between Liberalism and Conservatism...unless it is forced upon them. A Christian is to be neither liberal or conservative but rather be spiritual in Christ.

We are a mix of all i would say, only that Christ Jesus is at the fore front in regards what we do.

By Liberal i mean a broad scope of understanding of issues. and regarding Conservative i mean solid foundations. as a key into such regards.