Adam & Eve

[face2face]

Hey @Keiw (& @Aunty Jane )

In the past we have briefly discussed the JW teaching on A&E, and I wondered how it was that your denomination believes they cannot be saved. Is this a traditional view, or do you have evidence to support this belief.

F2F

 

[Keiw]

B

Hey @Keiw (& @Aunty Jane )

In the past we have briefly discussed the JW teaching on A&E, and I wondered how it was that your denomination believes they cannot be saved. Is this a traditional view, or do you have evidence to support this belief.

They were perfect, If they could not stand being perfect how could they ever stand. And look at the human suffering and death they have caused.

 

[face2face]

B

Be more direct please. What is A&E

Adam & Eve

 

[Keiw]

Adam & Eve

yes i realized it and answered.

 

[face2face]

yes i realized it and answered.

Thanks

They were perfect, If they could not stand being perfect how could they ever stand. And look at the human suffering and death they have caused.

So God clothing them which is symbolic of the Christ Covering didnt apply to them?

 

[face2face]

@Keiw

They also endeavored to raise a Godly Seed... I'm not clear on why JW's judge A&E so harshly? There is so much evidence to suggest they will be saved.

 

[face2face]

@Keiw

Maybe this belief is one of those traditions of men which are passed down from generation to generation and only when they are tested do you let them go?

Have you looked at this Keiw?

Now Adam knew Eve his wife, and she conceived and bore Cain, saying, “I have gotten a man with the help of the Lord.” Gen 4:1.

The Hebrew for gotten is Kained - a play on words.

Or sometimes rendered "I have gotten a man even Yahweh." She evidently imagined that the birth of her firstborn was the fulfilment of the promise of Genesis 3:15 which implies she was waiting for the fulfillment of the covenant made in Eden!

F2F

 

[Keiw]

Thanks

So God clothing them which is symbolic of the Christ Covering didnt apply to them?

God clothed them because they saw they were naked. It had nothing to do with Jesus sacrifice.

 

[Keiw]

@Keiw

They also endeavored to raise a Godly Seed... I'm not clear on why JW's judge A&E so harshly? There is so much evidence to suggest they will be saved.

They don't have a chance, they took their stand against Gods will while perfect. The same way the fallen angel satan did.

 

[face2face]

God clothed them because they saw they were naked. It had nothing to do with Jesus sacrifice.

Lets deal with this one first Keiw.

The first lesson which is require to be be understood is why the covering was required!

You see they "Made themselves aprons" They manufactured a covering of their own devising; they attempted to hide their sin
by their own means, and in the absence of sacrifice.

They had yet to learn the lesson, that "without shedding of blood there is no remission (of sin)" Heb. 9:22; Matt 26:28.

Those aprons did not hide their sin from God, as Job remarked

if I have covered my transgressions (as Adam), by hiding iniquity (sin) in my heart Job 31:33

It surprises me you cannot see these divine principles at work in this account?

Also, this idea of the shedding of blood was taught to their children, you will recall Cain & Abel and their offerings to God? So the teaching of this principle concerning the shedding of blood was understood by the first pair.

F2F

 

[Keiw]

@Keiw

Maybe this belief is one of those traditions of men which are passed down from generation to generation and only when they are tested do you let them go?

Have you looked at this Keiw?

Now Adam knew Eve his wife, and she conceived and bore Cain, saying, “I have gotten a man with the help of the Lord.” Gen 4:1.

The Hebrew for gotten is Kained - a play on words.

Or sometimes rendered "I have gotten a man even Yahweh." She evidently imagined that the birth of her firstborn was the fulfilment of the promise of Genesis 3:15 which implies she was waiting for the fulfillment of the covenant made in Eden!

F2F

Gen 1:28--Gods word which never comes back to him undone= Be fruitful and become many, fill the earth and subdue it.
If God killed them on the spot, satan would have made Gods words false. Gods purpose cannot be thwarted no matter what.

 

[face2face]

Gen 1:28--Gods word which never comes back to him undone= Be fruitful and become many, fill the earth and subdue it.
If God killed them on the spot, satan would have made Gods words false. Gods purpose cannot be thwarted no matter what.

This is rather messy Keiw and you have a few things going on here which is not making sense. Try entering the Word and speak to what is written, it will be easier to have a constructive chat.

F2F

 

[Rockerduck]

After Adam and woman sinned, God clothed them. God showed them how to sacrifice on the altar for their sins. We know this because of Cain and Abel. Both of them sacrificed on an altar.

 

[Keiw]

Lets deal with this one first Keiw.

The first lesson which is require to be be understood is why the covering was required!

You see they "Made themselves aprons" They manufactured a covering of their own devising; they attempted to hide their sin
by their own means, and in the absence of sacrifice.

They had yet to learn the lesson, that "without shedding of blood there is no remission (of sin)" Heb. 9:22; Matt 26:28.

Those aprons did not hide their sin from God, as Job remarked

if I have covered my transgressions (as Adam), by hiding iniquity (sin) in my heart Job 31:33

It surprises me you cannot see these divine principles at work in this account?

Also, this idea of the shedding of blood was taught to their children, you will recall Cain & Abel and their offerings to God? So the teaching of this principle concerning the shedding of blood was understood by the first pair.

F2F

you are way off. Cain murdered Abel=a sin. Yet Cain fathered Enoch a righteous man. Cain was born a sinner as all A&E offspring were, He can be forgiven. No one perfect will be forgiven.

 

[face2face]

you are way off. Cain murdered Abel=a sin. Yet Cain fathered Enoch a righteous man. Cain was born a sinner as all A&E offspring were, He can be forgiven. No one perfect will be forgiven.

We understand Eve was mistaken in her assumption that is obvious Keiw and you miss the point again...Adam & Eve taught their children the divine principles they themselves were living.

You understand this right?

It's a simple yes, or no answer

F2F

 

[face2face]

@Keiw #10 is very important and requires your acknowledgement. If you get this wrong here at the very beginning of the Bible you cannot understand the book ends.

F2F

 

[Keiw]

We understand Eve was mistaken in her assumption that is obvious Keiw and you miss the point again...Adam & Eve taught their children the divine principles they themselves were living.

You understand this right?

It's a simple yes, or no answer

F2F

They knew 100% they stabbed God in the back after all he did for them. So yes they loved their children and wanted them on the right path.

 

[face2face]

@Keiw lets progress shall we?

Did you notice Adam's words "Because I was naked; and I hid myself" In Scripture you will know nakedness is symbolic and is treated as a state of sin (you will know Rev 16:15).

Adam's declaration was a confession of sin. His statement, "I hid myself was an acknowledgement that a covering was needed"

The angel responded "Who told you that you were naked?" — He was self-condemned by his very words which revealed the fact of
his sin.

It's critical you understand not only the account, but also the divine principles by which confessing and covering are applied to the first pair.

They become the example of how God deals with sin.

F2F

 

[face2face]

They knew 100% they stabbed God in the back after all he did for them. So yes they loved their children and wanted them on the right path.

Keiw, there is no need for aggressive language here. We are looking into the Divine Principles which your God is teaching you. Don't resist....learn!

F2F

 

[Keiw]

@Keiw lets progress shall we?

Did you notice Adam's words "Because I was naked; and I hid myself" In Scripture you will know nakedness is symbolic and is treated as a state of sin (you will know Rev 16:15).

Adam's declaration was a confession of sin. His statement, "I hid myself was an acknowledgement that a covering was needed"

The angel responded "Who told you that you were naked?" — He was self-condemned by his very words which revealed the fact of
his sin.

It's critical you understand not only the account, but also the divine principles by which confessing and covering are applied to the first pair.

They become the example of how God deals with sin.

F2F

None perfect who sinned will be saved. Satan and his angels were all perfect and chose sin-they are condemned to death already.