Is your faith your own? - Is "the Faith" prescribed by a human institution?

[Beebster]

I guess it begs the question: What is sin and what isn't?

Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, TO HIM IT IS A SIN. (Jas 4:17)

The same chapter that tells us this also gives us insight to breaking an oath:

Go to now, ye that say, To day or to morrow we will go into such a city, and continue there a year, and buy and sell, and get gain:

Whereas ye know not what shall be on the morrow. For what is your life? It is even a vapour, that appeareth for a little time, and then vanisheth away.

For that ye ought to say, IF THE LORD WILL, we shall live, and do this, or that.

But now ye rejoice in your boastings: all such rejoicing is evil. (Jas 4:13-16)

Have you ever seen someone in a dire situation and said “oh if that were me I’d do such and such?”

When in reality you truly don’t know how you would react.

I’ve been guilty of that for sure.

But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil. (Mat 5:37)

Weren't you saying earlier that there is always a cause?

Yes.

(not willful)

No, just because all of your actions are caused doesn’t mean you don’t do things willingly.

For example, you Will or Will not answer this post but why?

Since you have read this post you are now CAUSED to either answer it or not.

Think on the choices you make daily, hourly, by the minute or second and what causes you make them. Dwell on even the smallest ones and you will find that there is always a cause.

Cause and Effect. As long as that law exists, we cannot have free will.

Be well.

 

[Beebster]

I sincerely think and feel that the Creator of all things, both unseen and seen, cannot make a mistake because He is infinitely wise. If Satan is intelligent and cunning, how much more so is the one who created him? It is highly unlikely that He would make a mistake because He is perfect. And as you mentioned in the verse you shared, it is also written in other scriptures that He will do anything He wills.

Yes God created Satan.

Not as a beautiful angel who fell as taught through false doctrine but as a sinner and a murderer from the beginning.

And you're right it wasn't by mistake.

Peace.

 

[Stumpmaster]

And you're right it wasn't by mistake.

Well it is a mistake to portray God as evil, working against His own Plan of Salvation.

Luk 8:11-12 Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God. (12) Those along the road are those who hear, then the devil comes, and takes away the word from their heart, that they may not believe and be saved.

 

[Beebster]

Well it is a mistake to portray God as evil, working against His own Plan of Salvation.

Luk 8:11-12 Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God. (12) Those along the road are those who hear, then the devil comes, and takes away the word from their heart, that they may not believe and be saved.

Sorry but I'm not sure what you're getting at. Could you be more specific?

 

[Stumpmaster]

Sorry but I'm not sure what you're getting at. Could you be more specific?

My comment is a corollary to your comment that God created Satan. Sufficient to say I think you are mistaken. God had no Adversary until one of His angels rebelled, as depicted in the metaphors of prophecy.

Isa 14:13-14 For you have said in your heart: 'I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God; I will also sit on the mount of the congregation On the farthest sides of the north; (14) I will ascend above the heights of the clouds, I will be like the Most High.'

Eze 28:13-17 You were in Eden, the garden of God; Every precious stone was your covering: The sardius, topaz, and diamond, Beryl, onyx, and jasper, Sapphire, turquoise, and emerald with gold. The workmanship of your timbrels and pipes Was prepared for you on the day you were created. (14) "You were the anointed cherub who covers; I established you; You were on the holy mountain of God; You walked back and forth in the midst of fiery stones. (15) You were perfect in your ways from the day you were created, Till iniquity was found in you. (16) "By the abundance of your trading You became filled with violence within, And you sinned; Therefore I cast you as a profane thing Out of the mountain of God; And I destroyed you, O covering cherub, From the midst of the fiery stones. (17) "Your heart was lifted up because of your beauty; You corrupted your wisdom for the sake of your splendor; I cast you to the ground, I laid you before kings, That they might gaze at you.

 

[ThePuffyBlob]

I am responding instead of absconding. The heart of the matter is both former and latter. A strawman is a poor man with only a pretense of substance.

You do know that English is not my first language, right? It's my fourth. Don't be too harsh on me with your words. I might not understand them unless I ask someone else.

I'm choosing to address the issue rather than run away from it. Both parts of the issue are important. A weak argument looks strong but lacks real substance.

in simpler terms this is what you mean right?

But I'd better stop here, as it seems to be getting off the main topic.

 

[ThePuffyBlob]

Well it is a mistake to portray God as evil, working against His own Plan of Salvation.

Luk 8:11-12 Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God. (12) Those along the road are those who hear, then the devil comes, and takes away the word from their heart, that they may not believe and be saved.

Could you please answer this question: Did God create Satan?

 

[St. SteVen]

My comment is a corollary to your comment that God created Satan. Sufficient to say I think you are mistaken. God had no Adversary until one of His angels rebelled, as depicted in the metaphors of prophecy.

It's an interesting question.
Could we say that God created Lucifer?
And that God created the opportunity for Lucifer to rebel?

God is both sovereign and omniscient.
Where does ultimate responsibility belong?

Isaiah 14:12 NKJV
“How you are fallen from heaven,
O [a]Lucifer, son of the morning!
How you are cut down to the ground,
You who weakened the nations!

1 Chronicles 21:1 NKJV
Now Satan stood up against Israel, and moved David to [a]number Israel.

[

 

[JBO]

Could you please answer this question: Did God create Satan?

He created the angel who rebelled and became Satan.

Satan is a part of the group of angels who sinned (2 Peter 2:4), and is actually the leader of these rebellious spirits. His one-on-one contest with Michael the archangel in Jude 9, and his position as leader of the demonic force that opposed Michael in Rev. 12:7, suggest that prior to his fall he too was an archangel (chief angel, an angel of the highest rank).

It is important to see that he was not created AS SATAN, but as a good angel, a highest-ranking angel. God does not create evil beings. He creates beings with free will (such as the human race) who can use their free will to do evil things, but everything he creates is good when it is created. This applies to angels, even to the angels who used their free will to commit sin. This includes the devil. Thus he BECAME Satan after he was created.

 

[Bob Estey]

This is a follow-up to my topic titled:

Faith vs. "the Faith" - Which one was once delivered?

- What's the difference between faith and "the Faith"? - What faith was once delivered/entrusted to us? - Was it faith, or "the Faith"? - Is faith from God? - Is "the Faith" man-made? Jude 3 KJV Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me...

www.christianityboard.com

Are you saved by faith, or by "the Faith"? Let's discuss both sides.

Are we saved by certainty, or by faith? - the mystery of salvation

Faith is not required to believe a certainty. How much energy do we expend attempting to promote salvation as a certainty? All the reams of apologetics to make the mystery of faith appear to be a certainty. Were we saved by grace through certainty, or saved by grace through faith? ]

www.christianityboard.com

Discussion questions;
1) Is the basis for your salvation a personal decision to follow God, or to follow the church?
2) If your salvation is in "the Faith", who prescribed what that means?

[

1. Churches are made up of imperfect humans. Many churches have gone badly astray. I wouldn't follow a church, if I were you.
2. Jesus and God, in the Bible, prescribe what "the Faith" means.

 

[St. SteVen]

2. Jesus and God, in the Bible, prescribe what "the Faith" means.

How is "the Faith" prescribed? (chapter and verse please)

[

 

[Bob Estey]

How is "the Faith" prescribed? (chapter and verse please)

[

Throughout the entire Bible (Genesis 1:1 through Revelation 22:21).

If you are trying to consolidate the entire faith into a few words, you might have trouble doing that - I've been trying to do that for decades. The "equation" always seems to be changing. We become more knowledgeable as we grow older.

I would start out with the two great commandments (Matthew 22:34-40) and work from there. Or read the Bible from cover to cover.

And I think something Paul said was very helpful: "Pray constantly." (1 Thessalonians 5:17)

 

[ThePuffyBlob]

He created the angel who rebelled and became Satan.

Satan is a part of the group of angels who sinned (2 Peter 2:4), and is actually the leader of these rebellious spirits. His one-on-one contest with Michael the archangel in Jude 9, and his position as leader of the demonic force that opposed Michael in Rev. 12:7, suggest that prior to his fall he too was an archangel (chief angel, an angel of the highest rank).

It is important to see that he was not created AS SATAN, but as a good angel, a highest-ranking angel. God does not create evil beings. He creates beings with free will (such as the human race) who can use their free will to do evil things, but everything he creates is good when it is created. This applies to angels, even to the angels who used their free will to commit sin. This includes the devil. Thus he BECAME Satan after he was created.

Here we go again, someone is saying that the universe is vast and that there are other creators besides our Creator. But how did evil exist if it wasn't created? Where did the tree of the knowledge of good and evil come from, if not from God? You see, I never said that God is evil, for it is written that God is good, and that's that. Let's not fill in the gaps and assume things.

If God did not create gravity, wouldn't we be floating around right now? Similarly, if something like 'evil' wasn't created, then why does it exist? Where did it come from? Are you saying that it's the free will, which God created, that brings forth evil? Wait a minute, doesn't that also lead to...

 

[JBO]

Here we go again, someone is saying that the universe is vast and that there are other creators besides our Creator. But how did evil exist if it wasn't created? Where did the tree of the knowledge of good and evil come from, if not from God? You see, I never said that God is evil, for it is written that God is good, and that's that. Let's not fill in the gaps and assume things.

If God did not create gravity, wouldn't we be floating around right now? Similarly, if something like 'evil' wasn't created, then why does it exist? Where did it come from? Are you saying that it's the free will, which God created, that brings forth evil? Wait a minute, doesn't that also lead to...

Evil is not a created entity. It is a response of a created being contrary to God's command. And yes, it is by the free will of the created creature from which the disobedience derives and produces evil.

 

[Beebster]

My comment is a corollary to your comment that God created Satan. Sufficient to say I think you are mistaken.

God certainly did create Satan.

By his spirit he hath garnished the heavens; his hand hath formed the crooked serpent. (Job 26:13)

Second witness:


He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. (1 John 3:8)

According to your doctrine the devil did not sin from the beginning he was a beautiful angel that thwarted God's grand plan for creation.

You teach the opposite of what the scripture teaches:

And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. (2 Cor 11:14)

God had no Adversary until one of His angels rebelled, as depicted in the metaphors of prophecy.

Isa 14:13-14 For you have said in your heart: 'I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God; I will also sit on the mount of the congregation On the farthest sides of the north; (14) I will ascend above the heights of the clouds, I will be like the Most High.'

Eze 28:13-17 You were in Eden, the garden of God; Every precious stone was your covering: The sardius, topaz, and diamond, Beryl, onyx, and jasper, Sapphire, turquoise, and emerald with gold. The workmanship of your timbrels and pipes Was prepared for you on the day you were created. (14) "You were the anointed cherub who covers; I established you; You were on the holy mountain of God; You walked back and forth in the midst of fiery stones. (15) You were perfect in your ways from the day you were created, Till iniquity was found in you. (16) "By the abundance of your trading You became filled with violence within, And you sinned; Therefore I cast you as a profane thing Out of the mountain of God; And I destroyed you, O covering cherub, From the midst of the fiery stones. (17) "Your heart was lifted up because of your beauty; You corrupted your wisdom for the sake of your splendor; I cast you to the ground, I laid you before kings, That they might gaze at you.

These have nothing to do with some mythical fall of Satan. The metaphors are speaking of God's called and chosen people.

Peace.

 

[St. SteVen]

St. SteVen said:
How is "the Faith" prescribed? (chapter and verse please)

Throughout the entire Bible (Genesis 1:1 through Revelation 22:21).

I'm differentiating between "faith" and "The Faith".
Which one is referred to in Genesis? By faith, or By THE Faith?

Hebrews 11:1-13 NIV
Now faith is confidence in what we hope for and assurance about what we do not see.
2 This is what the ancients were commended for.
3 By faith we understand that the universe was formed at God’s command, so that what is seen was not made out of what was visible.
4 By faith Abel brought God a better offering than Cain did. By faith he was commended as righteous, when God spoke well of his offerings. And by faith Abel still speaks, even though he is dead.
5 By faith Enoch was taken from this life, so that he did not experience death: “He could not be found, because God had taken him away.”[a] For before he was taken, he was commended as one who pleased God.
6 And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him.
7 By faith Noah, when warned about things not yet seen, in holy fear built an ark to save his family. By his faith he condemned the world and became heir of the righteousness that is in keeping with faith.
8 By faith Abraham, when called to go to a place he would later receive as his inheritance, obeyed and went, even though he did not know where he was going.
9 By faith he made his home in the promised land like a stranger in a foreign country; he lived in tents, as did Isaac and Jacob, who were heirs with him of the same promise.
10 For he was looking forward to the city with foundations, whose architect and builder is God.
11 And by faith even Sarah, who was past childbearing age, was enabled to bear children because she[b] considered him faithful who had made the promise.
12 And so from this one man, and he as good as dead, came descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and as countless as the sand on the seashore.
13 All these people were still living by faith when they died. They did not receive the things promised; they only saw them and welcomed them from a distance, admitting that they were foreigners and strangers on earth.

[

 

[Bob Estey]

St. SteVen said:
How is "the Faith" prescribed? (chapter and verse please)

I'm differentiating between "faith" and "The Faith".
Which one is referred to in Genesis? By faith, or By THE Faith?

Hebrews 11:1-13 NIV
Now faith is confidence in what we hope for and assurance about what we do not see.
2 This is what the ancients were commended for.
3 By faith we understand that the universe was formed at God’s command, so that what is seen was not made out of what was visible.
4 By faith Abel brought God a better offering than Cain did. By faith he was commended as righteous, when God spoke well of his offerings. And by faith Abel still speaks, even though he is dead.
5 By faith Enoch was taken from this life, so that he did not experience death: “He could not be found, because God had taken him away.”[a] For before he was taken, he was commended as one who pleased God.
6 And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him.
7 By faith Noah, when warned about things not yet seen, in holy fear built an ark to save his family. By his faith he condemned the world and became heir of the righteousness that is in keeping with faith.
8 By faith Abraham, when called to go to a place he would later receive as his inheritance, obeyed and went, even though he did not know where he was going.
9 By faith he made his home in the promised land like a stranger in a foreign country; he lived in tents, as did Isaac and Jacob, who were heirs with him of the same promise.
10 For he was looking forward to the city with foundations, whose architect and builder is God.
11 And by faith even Sarah, who was past childbearing age, was enabled to bear children because she[b] considered him faithful who had made the promise.
12 And so from this one man, and he as good as dead, came descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and as countless as the sand on the seashore.
13 All these people were still living by faith when they died. They did not receive the things promised; they only saw them and welcomed them from a distance, admitting that they were foreigners and strangers on earth.

[

I define "the faith" as simply being all that the Lord has taught us.

It looks to me like you are trying to pin it on a certain few scriptures. I don't know that you can do that since the knowledge we each possess evolves. I think I could give you a few basic scriptures that are most meaningful to me at this point of my life, but it can change.

 

[GodsGrace]

This is a follow-up to my topic titled:

Faith vs. "the Faith" - Which one was once delivered?

- What's the difference between faith and "the Faith"? - What faith was once delivered/entrusted to us? - Was it faith, or "the Faith"? - Is faith from God? - Is "the Faith" man-made? Jude 3 KJV Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me...

www.christianityboard.com

Are you saved by faith, or by "the Faith"? Let's discuss both sides.

Are we saved by certainty, or by faith? - the mystery of salvation

Faith is not required to believe a certainty. How much energy do we expend attempting to promote salvation as a certainty? All the reams of apologetics to make the mystery of faith appear to be a certainty. Were we saved by grace through certainty, or saved by grace through faith? ]

www.christianityboard.com

Discussion questions;
1) Is the basis for your salvation a personal decision to follow God, or to follow the church?
2) If your salvation is in "the Faith", who prescribed what that means?

[

Haven't read through...but it has to be by personal faith.

Simple reason:
First of all Hebrews tells us that those of the OT were saved by faith.

Second, there was no "church" when Jesus was preaching/teaching.
It's even debatable if He began wanting to begin a new church or if this idea came about just from what happened when He preached....He ended up crucified.

It seems clear to me that Jesus meant to change the heart of man and get away from "religion".

So, yes, I'd say that we must PERSONALLY seek and find God....which is upheld by many verse.

Here's one:

Hebrews 11:6
6And without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is and that He is a rewarder of those who seek Him.

1. We need faith to please God. It doesn't say church.
2. We must believe that God exists. It doesn't say we must go to church.
3. God rewards those who SEEK HIM. Ditto

 

[Stumpmaster]

By his spirit he hath garnished the heavens; his hand hath formed the crooked serpent. (Job 26:13)

Speaking about an actual snake.

 

[Stumpmaster]

According to your doctrine the devil did not sin from the beginning he was a beautiful angel that thwarted God's grand plan for creation.

Strawman