There are 2 tribulation periods, the “first” is to the Jews

[Spiritual Israelite]

Christian Gedge gave us a very good study of Daniel's prophesy before he died.

Oh man. I wondered if something happened to him. When did he die?

The following comes mostly from his study 'Daniel's 70-week Timeline' a worthy study to consider.

Daniel 9:24-27 (KJV) Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy. Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for Himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

BC 538 Cyrus decree, BC 520 Darius re-issued, BC 457 Artaxerxes

One decree that was issued and re-issued: Ezra 6:14 (KJV) And the elders of the Jews builded, and they prospered through the prophesying of Haggai the prophet and Zechariah the son of Iddo. And they builded, and finished it, according to the commandment of the God of Israel, and according to the commandment of Cyrus, and Darius, and Artaxerxes king of Persia.

I believe it was inexcusable for the nation (prophets & priests) to deny Jesus was the promised Messiah who was to come. The denial must be attributed to hardness or heart.

Nearly sixty years elapsed from Darius during which time the temple was completed, but rebuilding of Jerusalem’s infrastructure had to wait until Artaxerxes ratified the decree again in his seventh year. According to the Hebrew calendar, this date was 457 BC, and Ezra says it happened on the “first day of the first month in the seventh year of King Artaxerxes.” Now, when we count forward 483 years from 1 Nisan 457 BC, it comes out at 1 Nisan AD 27 - the time Jesus began his public ministry. When one considers how Daniel first predicts the decree nearly a century before it happened, then proceeds to telescope another 69 weeks further, we find a supernatural fulfilment of the ‘times’ in Jesus of Nazareth. Add that to the unlikely chance of a decree occurring on the cusp of a grand Jubilee cycle, and it cannot be brushed aside. These ‘coincidences’ defy the odds and provide powerful testimony to the identity of the Christ.

I agree with all of that.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

His Kingdom in heaven is coming on earth…

Matthew 6:10
Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.

Revelation 11:15
And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

Yes, He will deliver the kingdom He rules over now (Matt 28:16-18, Eph 1:19-23, Col 1:12-13, Rev 1:5-6) to the Father when He returns at the end of the age (1 Cor 15:22-24, Matthew 13:40-43). At that time He will be renewing the heavens and the earth with fire and it will result in the new heavens and new earth where He and the Father will reign forever. So, it will be the earth made new that He and the Father will reign on forever. As scripture says, the meek will inherit the earth (Matt 5:5). Surely, we won't inherit it for only a temporary period of time, but it will be forever.

 

[rwb]

Oh man. I wondered if something happened to him. When did he die?


I agree with all of that.

I don't recall when he died, but it's been some months??? ago now? I don't remember the exact title of his study, but he commented on it in eschatology board.

Gedge was last seen on the boards in Sept 2023.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I don't recall when he died, but it's been some months??? ago now? I don't remember the exact title of his study, but he commented on it in eschatology board.

Yes, I remember reading it.

Gedge was last seen on the boards in Sept 2023.

I guess that's an indication of when he might have passed away then since he posted fairly regularly up to that point. Not very often, but at least once or twice every week I think.

 

[Earburner]

I already addressed this. It references the 7 weeks first and then the 62 weeks. Why make something simple complicated?

I agree. As it is written, the 62 weeks and the 69 weeks to interpret, is simple.
However, IT IS NOT I who is attempting to "mystify" the words, but rather to reveal it.

In the written arrangement of the biblical words (KJV), it is simply saying 69 weeks.
For one to divide and segment those words is a gross error.

But, the question is: where is the 70th week?
It's a "mystery".
Though you do know this, it is for others who disagree, that I am writing it again.

Dan. 9[25] Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks [7+60+2=69]: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
[26] And  AFTER threescore and two weeks [60+2=62] shall Messiah be CUT OFF [crucified], but not for himself:
> The solution for the answer of where the 70th week is to be established, is not found in the numbers for the math, but rather in the arrangement of the words. The seven years are in the 70th week.

Indeed, Messiah surely did come AFTER the 62 weeks, but even AFTER the total of 69 weeks, as well. All should discern and digest that.

Jesus came in the beginning of the 70th week, as it is indirectly revealed in vs. 27:
[27] And he [Jesus] shall confirm the [New] covenant with many for ONE week: and in the  MIDST of the [70th] week he [by His Sacrifice] shall  CAUSE the [temple] sacrifice and the oblation to cease...
That is the end of the interpretation for the 70th week, for establishing the time of the First coming of Jesus, who was confirming the New covenant upto the day of His mortal death, being in the midst [first 3.5 years] of the 70th week.

The latter 3.5 years of the 70th week, are accounted for through His ministry to the early church, by His Spirit. Thus confirming the New covenant then also.

As for the words concerning the literal destruction of the city and the temple, that event is outside of the prophecy of the 70th week, which was for only 7 years [3.5+3.5].

....and [in the year of 70 AD] the people of the prince [Titus] that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

Edit:
As a result, our process of dating time, by the Gregorian calendar, shows the event of Jesus' death and Jesus' resurrection,
from the last 3.5 years BC. to the first 3.5 years AD. So then, in all truth, for our understanding, Jesus confirmed the NC for 3.5 years BC and then for another 3.5 years AD.
Therefore, The 70th week ended on 3.5 AD.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I agree. As it is written, the 62 weeks and the 69 weeks to interpret, is simple.
However, IT IS NOT I who is attempting to "mystify" the words, but rather to reveal it.

In the written arrangement of the biblical words (KJV), it is simply saying 69 weeks.
For one to divide and segment those words is a gross error.

I can't understand what you're trying to say, so I don't think I'm too interested in continuing this discussion much longer. You are too hard to follow. I know this can't actually be the case, but you're coming across here as if you are accusing Gabriel of gross error since he is the one who refers to the 7 weeks separately from the 62 weeks.

But, the question is: where is the 70th week?

Right after the 69th week.

It's a "mystery".

Why? I don't get this. Let's agree to disagree on this because otherwise my brain will melt trying to figure out what you're trying to say.

Though you do know this, it is for others who disagree, that I am writing it again.

Dan. 9[25] Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks [7+60+2=69]: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
[26] And  AFTER threescore and two weeks [60+2=62] shall Messiah be CUT OFF [crucified], but not for himself:
> The solution for the answer of where the 70th week is to be established, is not found in the numbers for the math, but rather in the arrangement of the words.

Indeed, Messiah surely did come AFTER the 62 weeks, but even AFTER the total of 69 weeks, as well. Please discern and digest that.

What is their to discern and digest about that? It's obvious to me that Jesus was cut off after the 69th week ended. This is one of the weirdest discussions I've ever been part of and I don't want to be part of it anymore. You have this strange idea that there are some who believe that Jesus was cut off in the 63rd week even though I don't think anyone actually tries to claim that.

Jesus came in the beginning of the 70th week, as it is indirectly revealed in vs. 27:
[27] And he [Jesus] shall confirm the [New] covenant with many for ONE week: and in the  MIDST of the [70th] week he [by His Sacrifice] shall  CAUSE the [temple] sacrifice and the oblation to cease...
That is the end of the interpretation for the 70th week, for establishing the time of the First coming of Jesus, who was confirming the New covenant upto the day of His mortal death, being in the midst [first 3.5 years] of the 70th week.

The latter 3.5 years of the 70th week, are accounted for through His ministry to the early church, by His Spirit. Thus confirming the New covenant then also.

As for the words concerning the literal destruction of the city and the temple, that event is outside of the prophecy of the 70th week, which was for only 7 years [3.5+3.5].

....and [in the year of 70 AD] the people of the prince [Titus] that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

Yes, I agree that Jesus came in the beginning of the 70th week and made His sacrifice in the midst of the 70th week. And I agree that the latter half of the 70th week was His ministry to the early church in Israel by His Holy Spirit which confirmed the new covenant. Glad we agree on all that. As for the rest of what you're saying, I don't get it. But, that's okay. Agree to disagree on that and move on.

 

[IndianaRob]

It’s impossible to reconcile Daniel’s 70 weeks by viewing them as 70 weeks of years. The 70 weeks are literally 7 day weeks and it’s provable by Daniel 9:27.

Jesus rode into Jerusalem on Palm Sunday and was cut off exactly 7 days later, confirming the covenant God with Abraham and ending animal sacrifices.

All of that in the 70th week of Daniel… Daniels 70 weeks completely fulfilled and accomplished.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

It’s impossible to reconcile Daniel’s 70 weeks by viewing them as 70 weeks of years.

No, it isn't. Read post #220 which reconciles it very well.

The 70 weeks are literally 7 day weeks and it’s provable by Daniel 9:27.

Jesus rode into Jerusalem on Palm Sunday and was cut off exactly 7 days later, confirming the covenant God with Abraham and ending animal sacrifices.

All of that in the 70th week of Daniel… Daniels 70 weeks completely fulfilled and accomplished.

Oops. You forgot something. It says he would cause the sacrifices to cease in the middle of the 70th week, not at the end as you are saying. His death falls in the middle of the 70th week, not at the end of it.

Also, your view does not take into account what it says here:

Daniel 9:25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

What commandment was given 483 days before the coming of Messiah the Prince "to restore and build Jerusalem"? I am certain no such commandment was given at that time since Jerusalem had already been restored and rebuilt long before that.

 

[IndianaRob]

No, it isn't. Read post #220 which reconciles it very well.


Oops. You forgot something. It says he would cause the sacrifices to cease in the middle of the 70th week, not at the end as you are saying. His death falls in the middle of the 70th week, not at the end of it.

Also, your view does not take into account what it says here:

Daniel 9:25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

What commandment was given 483 days before the coming of Messiah the Prince "to restore and build Jerusalem"?

The command is to 1) Restore and 2) Build not rebuild Jerusalem.

What was supposed to happen when Christ came? First Elias must come to RESTORE all thing then Christ was to BUILD heavenly Jerusalem.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

The command is to 1) Restore and 2) Build not rebuild Jerusalem.

For it to be restored implies that it needed to be rebuilt.

What was supposed to happen when Christ came? First Elias must come to RESTORE all thing then Christ was to BUILD heavenly Jerusalem.

There is no indication in the prophecy at all that it's talking about heavenly Jerusalem. When it talks about destroying the city and the sanctuary in Daniel 9:26, what is your understanding of that? If you think the prophecy is about heavenly Jerusalem, then it would have to be talking about heavenly Jerusalem being destroyed, which is impossible.

 

[IndianaRob]

For it to be restored implies that it needed to be rebuilt.

I see it like this. Restoration is one part of the commandment and building Jerusalem is another part of the commandment. That in my opinion is galvanized in the fact that three time periods are given, 7 weeks for restoration, 62 weeks to build Jerusalem and 1 week to confirm the covenant. We can agree to disagree on this because I don't know that it can be proven either way.

There is no indication in the prophecy at all that it's talking about heavenly Jerusalem. When it talks about destroying the city and the sanctuary in Daniel 9:26, what is your understanding of that? If you think the prophecy is about heavenly Jerusalem, then it would have to be talking about heavenly Jerusalem being destroyed, which is impossible.

In my opinion the whole point of Daniel 9 is Jesus coming to take the kingdom from earthly Jerusalem and giving it to "another nation" which is heavenly Jerusalem "the mother of us all".

Just to be transparent, I'm not trying to change anyone's views on this scripture or any other scripture, I only want to point out things that others may not have considered as a possibility.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I see it like this. Restoration is one part of the commandment and building Jerusalem is another part of the commandment. That in my opinion is galvanized in the fact that three time periods are given, 7 weeks for restoration

How exactly was heavenly Jerusalem restored in 49 days?

, 62 weeks to build Jerusalem

How exactly was heavenly Jerusalem bulit in 434 days?

and 1 week to confirm the covenant. We can agree to disagree on this because I don't know that it can be proven either way.

Did you read post #220. It's an excellent explanation for how the prophecy refers to 70 weeks of years.

In my opinion the whole point of Daniel 9 is Jesus coming to take the kingdom from earthly Jerusalem and giving it to "another nation" which is heavenly Jerusalem "the mother of us all".

I asked you to tell me your understanding of the part about the destruction of the city and the sanctuary. So, can you please do that? Are you saying "the city" that was to be destroyed is referring to earthly Jerusalem, but "Jerusalem" is referring to heavenly Jerusalem? That certainly would make the prophecy confusing. I don't see any indication of that in the prophecy anywhere.

Just to be transparent, I'm not trying to change anyone's views on this scripture or any other scripture, I only want to point out things that others may not have considered as a possibility.

I don't believe what you're presenting is a valid possibility.

 

[IndianaRob]

How exactly was heavenly Jerusalem restored in 49 days?

I don't understand why do you ask this question? I never said anything about heavenly Jerusalem being restored so I'll t to be clearer.

What I was trying to convey was the commandment in Daniel 9:25 was twofold 1) RESTORE (this has nothing to do with Jerusalem) and 2) BUILD Jerusalem.

Before I go further do you understand my position?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I don't understand why do you ask this question? I never said anything about heavenly Jerusalem being restored so I'll t to be clearer.

What I was trying to convey was the commandment in Daniel 9:25 was twofold 1) RESTORE (this has nothing to do with Jerusalem) and 2) BUILD Jerusalem.

Before I go further do you understand my position?

It's clearly talking about both restoring and building Jerusalem, so I can't take this seriously. Sorry. I'm okay with agreeing to disagree on this since our views are far apart on it.

 

[rwb]

I agree. As it is written, the 62 weeks and the 69 weeks to interpret, is simple.
However, IT IS NOT I who is attempting to "mystify" the words, but rather to reveal it.

In the written arrangement of the biblical words (KJV), it is simply saying 69 weeks.
For one to divide and segment those words is a gross error.

But, the question is: where is the 70th week?
It's a "mystery".
Though you do know this, it is for others who disagree, that I am writing it again.

Dan. 9[25] Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks [7+60+2=69]: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
[26] And  AFTER threescore and two weeks [60+2=62] shall Messiah be CUT OFF [crucified], but not for himself:
> The solution for the answer of where the 70th week is to be established, is not found in the numbers for the math, but rather in the arrangement of the words. The seven years are in the 70th week.

Indeed, Messiah surely did come AFTER the 62 weeks, but even AFTER the total of 69 weeks, as well. All should discern and digest that.

Jesus came in the beginning of the 70th week, as it is indirectly revealed in vs. 27:
[27] And he [Jesus] shall confirm the [New] covenant with many for ONE week: and in the  MIDST of the [70th] week he [by His Sacrifice] shall  CAUSE the [temple] sacrifice and the oblation to cease...
That is the end of the interpretation for the 70th week, for establishing the time of the First coming of Jesus, who was confirming the New covenant upto the day of His mortal death, being in the midst [first 3.5 years] of the 70th week.

The latter 3.5 years of the 70th week, are accounted for through His ministry to the early church, by His Spirit. Thus confirming the New covenant then also.

As for the words concerning the literal destruction of the city and the temple, that event is outside of the prophecy of the 70th week, which was for only 7 years [3.5+3.5].

....and [in the year of 70 AD] the people of the prince [Titus] that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

Edit:
As a result, our process of dating time, by the Gregorian calendar, shows the event of Jesus' death and Jesus' resurrection,
from the last 3.5 years BC. to the first 3.5 years AD. So then, in all truth, for our understanding, Jesus confirmed the NC for 3.5 years BC and then for another 3.5 years AD.
Therefore, The 70th week ended on 3.5 AD.

From the decree issued first by Cyrus, then ratified by King Artaxerxes to the anointing of Christ at 27 years of age is 483 years. The final week of Christ’s earthly ministry is divided from the beginning of His earthly ministry to His cross is 3 ½ days, ends with His resurrection three days (from Fri to Sun) after that, which ushers in everlasting righteousness (eternal life) for whosoever believes the Gospel as it begins to be sent out from Christ’s Church unto all the nations of the earth. The final week of Daniel’s prophecy was fulfilled through Christ from His anointing to His resurrection, all that Daniel prophesied of Him was fulfilled.

 

[CC7799]

Revelation chapter 13

This is one world political system. It received deadly wound at 5th Trump. Satan as antichrist will heal deadly wound at 6th Trump. Satan as false Messiah leads one world religious system. This is the tribulation.

You either have seal of God, revelation chapter 7

Or mark of beast.

Many people worship antichrist near future, they're bibillcy illiterate.

Those who have seal of God won't worship antichrist.

Jesus returns 7th Trump to Jerusalem. This starts the milliumum.

Yes, as written in acts, we have tribulation in life.

The real tribulation is when false Messiah comes.

 

[Earburner]

I can't understand what you're trying to say, so I don't think I'm too interested in continuing this discussion much longer. You are too hard to follow. I know this can't actually be the case, but you're coming across here as if you are accusing Gabriel of gross error since he is the one who refers to the 7 weeks separately from the 62 weeks.

I apologize for sounding erradic to you in my delivery.
I shall now simplify it, according to Dan. 9:25-27
[25] Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem UNTO the Messiah the Prince shall be seven WEEKS [49 years]*, and threescore and two [62] weeks [434 years]: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
*Note: John 2[20] Then said the Jews, Forty and six [46] years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days? [Do the math- Jesus was at the beginning of His ministry in the flesh for 3.5 years].

[26] And after threescore and two [62] weeks shall Messiah be cut off [crucified], but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
(^ hi-lited in Grey, because "the prince that shall come" is in 70AD, and is not part of the 70 week prophecy)..
[27] And he [Jesus] shall confirm the [New] covenant with many for 0NE week**: and in the midst of the week [by the sacrifice of himself] he [Jesus] shall cause the [Temple] sacrifice and the oblation to cease,...
**Note: a clue of Jesus' ministry in the flesh for 3.5 years, then after His resurection for the other 3.5 years (equalling ONE week).

Q. How many years are there in one prophetic week?
A. 7 years (7×1=7).

Q. How many years are there in 7 weeks?
A. 49 (7×7=49).

Q. How many years are there in 62 weeks?
A. 434 (7×62=434).

Q. How many years are there in 69 weeks?
A. 483 (7×69=483).

Q. When does the 70th week of 7 years take place?
A. After the end of the 69th week (483 years)

When we add the 70th week of 7 years to the 69 weeks of 483 years, the sum is 490 years. (7+483=490)

Herein lies the mystery:
According to the Gregorian calendar, the 490th year ended 3.5 years  AFTER Jesus' resurrection, which was at the end of the 70th week. That would be in the year of 3.5 AD.

Do you agree that Jesus was crucified in the midst of the 70th week?
If so, then good!

Or do you see that He was "cut off" [crucified] AFTER the 62nd week (vs. 26)?
If so, then that is good also, because that would be absolutely true.
The 70th week is definitely well after 62 weeks.
< (Digest the little mystery of God's insertions, of how He kept things secret from the "wisdom of men").

So then, the 70th week came after the 69th week. Do you agree?

Edit: Again, I apologize for sounding out of sorts to you, but please remember that there are Billions of professing Christians of "church-ianity" that have been and are being decieved into believing that the 70th week has been moved out into the far future, and therefore according to those who preach that lie and those who hear of it, they earnestly believe that the 70th week has not happened yet.

Thanks for listening,
Earburner

 

[Earburner]

From the decree issued first by Cyrus, then ratified by King Artaxerxes to the anointing of Christ at 27 years of age is 483 years. The final week of Christ’s earthly ministry is divided from the beginning of His earthly ministry to His cross is 3 ½ days, ends with His resurrection three days (from Fri to Sun) after that, which ushers in everlasting righteousness (eternal life) for whosoever believes the Gospel as it begins to be sent out from Christ’s Church unto all the nations of the earth. The final week of Daniel’s prophecy was fulfilled through Christ from His anointing to His resurrection, all that Daniel prophesied of Him was fulfilled.

Yes, absolutely correct, and I agree 100%.
As you have stated it, I have also believed.
Amen!

If you have followed along of what I have been saying here, it is not for us who do understand it, but rather for those who don't.
There are many being deceived in much of "church-ianity".


All that I have been doing, is to help those who have been misled and misguided, to see the "thinking process" of how we have come to know the truth of the 70th week, through the Holy Spirit, and HOW it has been fulfilled completely by Christ. Many do not know that they are being duped by "the wisdom of men". 1 Cor. 2:5.

Decoding Daniel’s Seventy-Weeks Prophecy

Daniel’s Seventy-Weeks prophecy contains vital information for understanding end-time events. Explore this ancient revelation with Dr. David Jeremiah.

davidjeremiah.blog

There is nothing of that 70th week, of anything of a supposed "Seven year Tribulation"**, that anyone of Christ should be looking for in the future, except their redemption, "when" Christ shall come in all His Glory, in flaming fire. KJV 2 Thes. 1:7-10; Luke 17:28-30.

** (Their belief system of a seven year tribulation, is extrapolated from their false understanding, that the 70th week of "seven years" has been "cut off" [amputated] by God, and placed at the end of time.)

 

[Earburner]

What is their to discern and digest about that? It's obvious to me that Jesus was cut off after the 69th week ended. This is one of the weirdest discussions I've ever been part of and I don't want to be part of it anymore. You have this strange idea that there are some who believe that Jesus was cut off in the 63rd week even though I don't think anyone actually tries to claim that.

Please see my post #237 and 238, and you will understand how it is that many professing Christians foolishly believe that the 70th week was "cut off" by God., and will be reattached to the end times.

BTW, many Christians need to understand the truth of the 70th week, of which we DO understand and KNOW!! Many are severely duped by false teaching by church-ianity.

Instead of writing them off, saying "Let's agree to disagree", try giving some help for their understanding, by revealing and sharing the "thinking process" of the Holy Spirit within you about Christ's completion of the 70th week.

 

[Douggg]