Hiroshima…the untold story.

[Aunty Jane]

God ordered Israel to kill whole cities- men women and children.

Children could have been rescued and retaught according to your philosophy, but God ordered even babies slaughtered!

Yes….GOD ORDERED those things….it was not commanded by men, but by the Creator himself. He alone has authority to take life and he alone can restore it. Again I refer you to Abraham’s conversation with God over the wicked cities of Sodom and Gomorrah…..there were no righteous people in those cities and children raised in that environment would turn out to be just like their wicked parents…..do you think God is unrighteous or unjust? Seriously?

God gives orders to even evil government (like when He had Caiaphas prophecy) to protect civilian lives from a conquerer

God has a purpose in allowing human rulership as it has already been explained….human rulers have failed miserably to protect to their peoples from foreign invaders…..some of the most disgusting conquerers were just bloodthirsty murderers….greedy for land and resources and addicted to bloodshed and driven by national pride.

God’s own people had to defend their God-given land against those who wanted it for themselves……
When did Israel ever offensively conquer anyone’s else’s land without God’s sanction? The bloodshed was from the foreign invaders, attempting to steal what was not theirs, and to kill anyone who tried to defend their own property.
Do you put the wars of the nations in that category? If so, who was defending a land that was “God-given”?….and what sanction did God give to the conquerors to shed blood in the process?

Stealing and murder are against the Ten Commandments….

Well show me one place where Jesus condemned a Roman Soldier for being a soldier, or Paul or Peter or John or James for that matter.

I already provided evidence for the fact that the early Christians could not even entertain military service as it was totally incompatible with Christian teachings. Did you ignore those too?

Luke 3:14
And the soldiers likewise demanded of him, saying, And what shall we do? And he said unto them, Do violence to no man, neither accuse any falsely; and be content with your wages.

And before you point out violence- it is the greek word Diaselo and means to terrify by extortion. It is not killing in war.

When I went to look up this word you defined….“Diaselo”…..this is what Strongs said….
”There are no concordance results for "Diaselo" in the KJV.”
So where did this come from?

Luke 3:14 is not rendered that way in other translations….

ESV….“Soldiers also asked him, “And we, what shall we do?” And he said to them, “Do not extort money from anyone by threats or by false accusation, and be content with your wages.”

NASB….”Some soldiers were questioning him, saying, “And what about us, what shall we do?” And he said to them, “Do not take money from anyone by force, or accuse anyone falsely, and be content with your wages.”

NCB…”Some soldiers also asked him, “What about us? What should we do?” He replied, “Do not extort money from anyone, do not falsely accuse or threaten anyone, and be satisfied with your wages.”

The KJV is a most unreliable translation, not only for its archaic English which makes it very difficult for new Bible students to read and understand the Scriptures, but it’s renderings are not accurate and often contradictory.

For that reason, it’s one I avoid, preferring to use a variety of translations along with a good concordance so that modern linguistics determines the meaning of scripture in their original languages more accurately than an out dated dinosaur in this 21st century.

From the perspective of a Christian, no one is justified in taking innocent lives...period. No government can demand that from any person who identifies as a “Christian”. You own conscience is God-given and should never be violated……the purpose of military training is to deaden the conscience….and dehumanize the enemy…should a Christian ever be part of that training to kill a fellow human to whom God also gave life?

In answer to this statement you said….

”I agree with your conscinece statement.

But you are vomiting the Watchtower lies about teh purpose of military training. It is to train a civilian to become a soldier. Though it is decaying rapidly, the western nations always taught its armies todo what could be done to avoid taking civilian lives.”

So you agreed that our conscience should be our guide…..but then justified the mass killing of innocent civilians as if that alone was not sufficient to violate a “Christian” conscience.

Since history attests to the fact that the early Christians did not in fact take up, or continue military service, no amount of training to dehumanize an enemy would make them violate their God-given, Bible trained conscience. We are told by Christ to ”love our enemies and to pray for them” (Matt 5:43-44)…..where in that statement do you find sanction to unleash weapons of mass destruction to indiscriminately kill any perceived enemy?

What the world under Satan is doing, has nothing to do with us. We can “let go and let God” as the saying goes. He does not need us to fulfill his purpose….he can maneuver whomever he chooses to carry out his will and purpose.…even his enemies.

From the bible itself. I do not need a human organization to filter what I am to think or believe.

Ah, so here we have another ‘loner’ who decides for themselves what they will, and won’t believe…?
Are we at liberty to pick and choose our beliefs?

Christians need a brotherhood, with whom they are to meet regularly…(Heb 10:24-25) Likewise those Christians who meet together are not to hold differing views as if they can pick and choose what to believe….they must be united in their faith and have no divisions. (1 Cor 1:10) Where does that leave Christendom and the “lone rangers”?

So now you stand corrected and properly informed.

And you are exposed as a fraud….contradicting yourself and fooling yourself into believing that your views are in accord with the teachings of the one you claim as your “Lord”…..if your conscience is not Bible trained, but more in line with the world’s view of life and death, it shows up in what you yourself express.

Do you stand corrected? Or can you be?

 

[Aunty Jane]

In the spiritual war, yes our weapons are spiritual.

but in the physical world our weapons are physical.

That is not what the Scriptures say……that is what you want to believe….based on your patriotic programming….from birth I believe.
You cannot “love your enemies” with tanks, guns, and bombs….can you? Or am I missing something here?

I know the Watchtower has indoctrinated you to say that to work for politics or armed service (police, army) etc. is evil. I am glad they have backtracked from many governemnt positions they used to ban.

But God orsained and uses human government to keep order. A caveat is that in these last days, god is going to allow evil to grown and corrupt.

It’s so funny you accusing us of indoctrination when we only follow the teachings of the Christ….whose teachings are overriding these for you?
We will not take up any employment that requires us to carry a weapon in full knowledge that it may be used to harm or kill a fellow human. Law enforcement is a governmental obligation, but it doesn’t mean that we can be the law. It cannot authorize what God forbids.…and any action that would repel a Bible trained Christian conscience.

Verse 1--Governments are ordained of God! To do His will. Even Hitler was ordained of God!

God is in control of who rules for his own reasons…..Hitler did so much damage especially to those whom he despised…those in the concentration camps whom he viewed as vermin….to be eradicated. Why did God allow him to do that? And how many Christians were there in those camps opposing him in faith, with no carnal weapons, but with more powerful spiritual weapons that fear could not force to compromise.
My brothers opposed Hitler and suffered in those camps…..but the churches by and large did not openly oppose him. To “heil Hitler” was to grant him the status of a savior….the German people believed his lying propaganda.

20 Daniel answered and said, Blessed be the name of God for ever and ever: for wisdom and might are his:
21 And he changeth the times and the seasons: he removeth kings, and setteth up kings: he giveth wisdom unto the wise, and knowledge to them that know understanding:

Proverbs 21:1
The king's heart is in the hand of the Lord, as the rivers of water: he turneth it whithersoever he will.

Indeed…the times required Babylon, a mighty empire to be exalted by capturing God’s people in punishment for their faithless disobedience…but when the time came for their release, he destroyed Babylon because of their arrogance. Babylon never allowed their captives to go free…..they tried to absorb them by indoctrination into their religion and culture…..but Daniel and his three companions refused to compromise.
Under threat of death, they defied all attempts to make them break God’s laws. Worldly governments have relative subjection….but they cannot force us to do what God condemns.

God put that world power in a place of supremacy for his own purpose, but Medo Persia conquered an unprepared Babylon in one night…with barely an arrow fired. It was Cyrus who was foretold to free God‘s people and allow a remnant of them to go “home”.

You use your Bible only to promote half a story…..and only because it appears to support your view….you could not be more mistaken..

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Yes….GOD ORDERED those things….it was not commanded by men, but by the Creator himself. He alone has authority to take life and he alone can restore it. Again I refer you to Abraham’s conversation with God over the wicked cities of Sodom and Gomorrah…..there were no righteous people in those cities and children raised in that environment would turn out to be just like their wicked parents…..do you think God is unrighteous or unjust? Seriously?

Well remember that fos says there is none righteous- no not one. And how do you know God did not move the allied nations to move against Germany, Italy and Japan?

God has a purpose in allowing human rulership as it has already been explained….human rulers have failed miserably to protect to their peoples from foreign invaders…..some of the most disgusting conquerers were just bloodthirsty murderers….greedy for land and resources and addicted to bloodshed and driven by national pride.

Just because some fail, does not mean we forget they are commissioned to do just that by God HImself!

The KJV is a most unreliable translation, not only for its archaic English which makes it very difficult for new Bible students to read and understand the Scriptures, but it’s renderings are not accurate and often contradictory.

This is a false statement. Elizebethian English can be read and understand by a sixth grader who is at grade level reading. It is accurate and does not contradict itself. That is the defense of the defenseless. Even your watchtower used the KJV as the "authorative bible" for many decades!

Ah, so here we have another ‘loner’ who decides for themselves what they will, and won’t believe…?
Are we at liberty to pick and choose our beliefs?

Christians need a brotherhood, with whom they are to meet regularly…(Heb 10:24-25) Likewise those Christians who meet together are not to hold differing views as if they can pick and choose what to believe….they must be united in their faith and have no divisions. (1 Cor 1:10) Where does that leave Christendom and the “lone rangers”?

I am a member of a local believing assembly and sit under the teachings of several teachers and my pastor. But I still act as a Berean and check what they say if I have a question. I have been walking with the Lord for 50 years now- though the Watchtower tells you I have not.

And you are exposed as a fraud….contradicting yourself and fooling yourself into believing that your views are in accord with the teachings of the one you claim as your “Lord”…..if your conscience is not Bible trained, but more in line with the world’s view of life and death, it shows up in what you yourself express.

So show me what you say I am saying is fraudulent.

That is not what the Scriptures say……that is what you want to believe….based on your patriotic programming….from birth I believe.
You cannot “love your enemies” with tanks, guns, and bombs….can you? Or am I missing something here?

Firsat off, I am citizen of heaven. that is where my patriotism lies. America is my work field. I hope you never have one brfeak in and seek to rape and pillage your family. From how you write, all you will do is say "Jesus loves you and so do I" and then let them ravage your family.

It’s so funny you accusing us of indoctrination when we only follow the teachings of the Christ….whose teachings are overriding these for you?
We will not take up any employment that requires us to carry a weapon in full knowledge that it may be used to harm or kill a fellow human. Law enforcement is a governmental obligation, but it doesn’t mean that we can be the law. It cannot authorize what God forbids.…and any action that would repel a Bible trained Christian conscience.

Do I really need to go through the time and effort to show you , you follow the Watchtower in whatever they say? I wish you follow the teachings of Jesus, but you do not in many areas. the faact you deny His physical resurrection and His physical return to eath shows you deny the teachings of Jesus the Christ.

 

[PS95]

That is not what the Scriptures say……that is what you want to believe….based on your patriotic programming….from birth I believe.
You cannot “love your enemies” with tanks, guns, and bombs….can you? Or am I missing something here?

Aunty Jane. I must say that JWS never love their enemies other than to get out of war. THAT IS A FACT.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Well remember that fos says there is none righteous- no not one. And how do you know God did not move the allied nations to move against Germany, Italy and Japan?

God will move whomever he pleases to get his will accomplished…..but, first you have to know what God’s will is, and you have to have some idea about why God allowed all these things to take place, knowing in advance that his faithful ones would suffer along with the wicked. (Just as took place when Israel was taken into Babylonian captivity. Daniel and his faithful companions suffered along with the disobedient ones)

Do you have a big picture RN? If so, what is God’s will concerning the human race, and what will be the end result of all of this?

Just because some fail, does not mean we forget they are commissioned to do just that by God HImself!

”Commissioned”? or “permitted”? There is a difference you know…allowing something doesn’t mean that God approves of it, but if he can use it within his purpose, he will permit it.

This is a false statement. Elizebethian English can be read and understand by a sixth grader who is at grade level reading. It is accurate and does not contradict itself. That is the defense of the defenseless. Even your watchtower used the KJV as the "authorative bible" for many decades!

My goodness…who told you that the KJV is understandable for children? I have had many Bible students struggle with that dinosaur and who only found relief and understanding from a modern English version of the Scriptures.
The KJV was OK for its time but as the olde English died out, language changed and the KJV did not change with it. The whole reason for a translation is accuracy of definition, which if you read the KJV and actually look up its definitions in a good concordance, you will see the errors.
Its the very reason why we chose to publish a better and more accurate translation, so that the Bible was understandable. This was my own personal experience when studying the Bible for the first time. All I had was an old KJV that was given to me as a child by my grandmother. I found it’s language and phraseology very confusing, but I was told to be wary of modern translations. I did a comparative study in modern English with the KJV and it was refreshing to say the least to have something stated in the language I spoke, rather than the one my ancestors spoke.
The way people treat the KJV today, one would think that the Bible was written in archaic English, rather than it being flawed human attempts at Hebrew and Greek translation. We have improved our study of linguistics so much since those old days…..it’s good to keep up.

I am a member of a local believing assembly and sit under the teachings of several teachers and my pastor. But I still act as a Berean and check what they say if I have a question. I have been walking with the Lord for 50 years now- though the Watchtower tells you I have not.

Do you then all speak in agreement? And if you have disagreements, how are these handled?
I am always amused by those who claim to be “non-denominational”…..which means you just don’t talk about the things you disagree with….was that the way it was in the first century? Is this “local assembly” led by one man? Or do your “teachers” have differing views? Do you have a global brotherhood who agree with your interpretation of scripture? (1 Cor 1:10) Do you agree with the rest of Christendom in your foundational beliefs? And in what ways to you differ with the churches in your local area?

So show me what you say I am saying is fraudulent.

I did…you contradicted what was said about a Christian conscience…..in view of Christ’s clear teachings and the words of his apostles…there can be no blood on our hands. (Isa 1:15; Romans 12:17-21; 2 Cor 10:3-5)

Firsat off, I am citizen of heaven. that is where my patriotism lies. America is my work field.

Citizenship in heaven is offered only to the elect…..not everyone has the “heavenly calling”….only those whom God has chosen to rule with his son in the heavenly kingdom as “kings and priests” (Rev 20:6).…do you entertain such a role for yourself….and if you do, for whom will you provide these services?

I hope you never have one brfeak in and seek to rape and pillage your family. From how you write, all you will do is say "Jesus loves you and so do I" and then let them ravage your family.

I live in Australia mate….there are not felons lurking around every corner so that I need to arm myself from the criminal elements in my own neighborhood. I have not lived in a big city for decades and would not if you paid me millions. But my brothers who do live in your country, in big cities, know the difference between self defence on an individual level and the sanguinity of war……that is not fighting your enemies, but fighting against the enemies of your government, and them allowing you to forfeit your own life as a repayment….you somehow die a hero if you are killed in war…even if the reasons for the war have nothing to do with defense.
When was the last time America fought a war on their own soil? They like to do their dirty work in other people’s countries apparently….

We can defend ourselves personally, but not with guns or weapons with an intention to “kill or be killed”. We have no sanction for that….we can physically dissuade someone if possible, but not at the expense of a Christian conscience.

Do I really need to go through the time and effort to show you , you follow the Watchtower in whatever they say? I wish you follow the teachings of Jesus, but you do not in many areas. the faact you deny His physical resurrection and His physical return to eath shows you deny the teachings of Jesus the Christ.

Show me where I fail to follow Christ’s teachings and you will counter with what your teachers have told you….will you believe whatever they say? Show me in what areas we fail to follow Christ….

We do not deny that Christ was resurrected….but we do not believe that he was resurrected in the same body that he sacrificed…..God removed the body that he created for his mission on earth, and accepted its sacrificial value…..but at his resurrection, the son of God was transformed him back into the same kind of body that he had before he left…..a spiritual body designed to exist in the spiritual realm where his Father and the angels reside.

Speaking of these different “bodies” Paul stated about the resurrection of Christ and his elect…..
” it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. So also it is written, “The first man, Adam, became a living soul.” The last Adam became a life-giving spirit. However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural; then the spiritual. The first man is from the earth, earthy; the second man is from heaven. As is the earthy, so also are those who are earthy; and as is the heavenly, so also are those who are heavenly. Just as we have borne the image of the earthy, we will also bear the image of the heavenly.“ (NASB)

Christ’s resurrection as Paul states….(as ”the last Adam”) Jesus “became a life giving spirit”……he was raised in a spiritual body, not one of flesh and blood. Flesh and blood cannot exist in heaven, so it is reasonable to conclude that what Jesus presented to his followers after his resurrection is exactly the same as what other spirit beings have done in the past, bringing God’s words to his earthly servants. They have the capacity to materialize in human form…as Gabriel did.…and as the three angels did who came to Abraham at Mamre, two of whom went on to rescue Lot and his family from the destruction of their immoral city. These angels presented as humans and ate and drank with the families who showed them hospitality.

Those of the elect will undergo the same kind of resurrection that Jesus did, according to Paul…they will shed their physical bodies to take on their heavenly role in a spirit body.

In the general resurrection of the dead (not the “first resurrection”) John 5:28-29 tells us that Jesus will call all the dead from their tombs….resurrected in their physical bodies to be reunited with their lost loved ones, to resume the life God originally planned for them….everlasting life in paradise on earth….(Rev 21:2-4)
This is the resurrection that Jesus and his apostles demonstrated in the first century. Death is the end of life until the resurrection…..it is not the continuation of it somewhere else. The dead are actually dead. (Eccl 9:5, 10)

God’s first purpose for mankind never went away…..he just had to make a detour so that the issues raised in Eden could be addressed and put away forever….never to darken mankind’s future ever again. (Isa 55:11)

 

[doctrox]

Hey Aunty Jane, I'm not here to arbitrate between you and your opponent, but because you've placed your trust in an area outside of the Holy Bible, you have been misled and your argument is forfeit.

For example:

My goodness…who told you that the KJV is understandable for children?

Rather, the Holy Bible is clear on this:

But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them; And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus (2 Tim. 3:14-15).

Notice that even a child understands the holy scriptures -- no middlemen wanna-be ‘scholars’ required!

I have had many Bible students struggle with that dinosaur and who only found relief and understanding from a modern English version of the Scriptures.
The KJV was OK for its time but as the olde English died out, language changed and the KJV did not change with it. The whole reason for a translation is accuracy of definition, which if you read the KJV and actually look up its definitions in a good concordance, you will see the errors.

That is blatant humanistic drivel.

Rather,

If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him (James 1:5).

Its the very reason why we chose to publish a better and more accurate translation, so that the Bible was understandable.

There's that "we" denominational group-think again. Such will ALWAYS lead you astray.

We have improved our study of linguistics so much since those old days…..

Obviously "we" have not.

For I am the LORD, I change not (Mal. 3:6). Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever (Heb. 13:8).

Do you stand corrected? Or can you be?

 

[Aunty Jane]

I’m sorry that response gave me a good chortle....

Hey Aunty Jane, I'm not here to arbitrate between you and your opponent, but because you've placed your trust in an area outside of the Holy Bible, you have been misled and your argument is forfeit.

I actually place my trust IN the Bible, but not the erroneous translations or misinterpretations of men.....
Perhaps it is you who have been misled...? Last time I looked, translations were the work of men....the Bible was not written in archaic English....but you knew that ...right?

For example:

Rather, the Holy Bible is clear on this:

But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them; And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus (2 Tim. 3:14-15).

Notice that even a child understands the holy scriptures -- no middlemen wanna-be ‘scholars’ required!

This is the bit that made me smile.....you interpreted the scripture to mean what it does not say.....
Paul was writing to Timothy who, as you may know, was raised by a Jewish mother, but a Greek father. His Jewish mother and grandmother made sure that Timothy grew up with God’s word from childhood....but it wasn’t the KJV that was read to him.....but you knew that too...didn’t you?
Koine Greek was the language of the day....do you speak Koine Greek? Apparently not, so why not avail yourself of interlinear translations.....you might learn something about the translation you put your trust in...

That is blatant humanistic drivel.

Rather,

If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him (James 1:5).

Are you serious? “Upbraideth not”??? Read that again and I defy any child to comprehend what it says.....most adults wouldn’t.....do you speak like this to your family or friends? If you did, might they think you a little strange?

We can ask God for understanding but he might just tell us to avail ourselves of a decent modern translation so that what is said might be more easily understood.

What did Paul say....? (1 Cor 14:8-11)...
“8 For truly, if the trumpet sounds an indistinct call, who will get ready for battle? 9 In the same way also, unless you through the tongue utter speech easily understood, how will it be known what is being spoken? you will, in fact, be speaking into the air. . . . I shall be a foreigner to the one speaking, and the one speaking will be a foreigner to me.”
This is what happens when trying to converse with someone who does not speak your language....or who speaks it poorly. There is no excuse for a Bible translation that few new Bible students will understand.
They should not have to learn an outdated language to understand what God’s word says.

There's that "we" denominational group-think again. Such will ALWAYS lead you astray.

Last time I looked, Jesus actually led a denominational group who were all known simply as “Christians”....
They all believed the same things, taught by the Christ, and met together to study God’s word and to share the Christian message with as many who would listen....

Where are the churches in “the great commission”? Sitting in their own denominational buildings waiting for people to wander in....who could possibly know who was teaching the truth among the thousands of denominations who can’t agree on much of anything as these boards demonstrate on a daily basis?.....is sitting at home or in any other building reading our Bible, what Jesus told us to do? (Matt 28:19-20; Matt 24:14)

Obviously "we" have not.

You mean you have no idea that advances in archeology and linguistic science have not allowed us to gain more knowledge of ancient languages in this computer age?
Are you a dinosaur along with your Bible translation? Oh dear...

For I am the LORD, I change not (Mal. 3:6). Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever (Heb. 13:8).

God hasn’t changed at all, and neither has his son, who has been with his Father from “the beginning”...before anything else was. But since imperfect men have translated the Bible that was inspired by God, its up to us to do our homework, rather than to rely on denominations to dictate beliefs and practices from twisted Bible translations and false religious ideas inherited from an apostate church.

 

[doctrox]

Last time I looked, translations were the work of men....the Bible was not written in archaic English....but you knew that ...right?

What's "archaic" is your trust in man. The Truth has never been about any "translation" per se.

This is the bit that made me smile.....you interpreted the scripture to mean what it does not say...

In 2 Tim. 3:15, notice that it is God who gives scripture -- not man. Man does not even feature in this passage.

Notice that the purpose of God giving to man, God’s inspired scripture, is so “that the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.” (v. 17)

.....it wasn’t the KJV that was read to him.....

There's that trusting in man thing again.

Here we see the problem generated by man's textual "criticism." Many of you believe that God inspired men to write God's words and, therefore, we better make certain we have 'scholars' and 'credentialed experts' doing the writing.

This is why there is the push for 'bigger and better bibles,' that appear 'pleasing to the eyes' and 'to make one wise,' that come with the highest recommendations of the 'scholars' who offer periodic 'updates' of their findings to their yes-men and other subscribers. It also explains why those modern versions of the Holy Bible must be copyrighted -- they are not an inspired work of God but works of men who claim owner$hip of them.

Koine Greek was the language of the day

Of course it was! God's pattern has always been the same: He gives the COMMON man the COMMON bible in the COMMON language of the day, to do one thing -- evangelize the world.

why not avail yourself of interlinear translations.....

...written by unsaved "scholars." This is the nexus of your problem i.e. faith in man rather than faith in God. Rather, touch not the unclean thing...

you might learn something about the translation you put your trust in...

Unlike you, I do not put my trust in any "translation." Nor do I speak with your haughtiness.

Your spirit is foul and I forgive you for your ignorance. However, I am not the One you are answerable to...

Where are the churches in “the great commission”? Sitting in their own denominational buildings waiting for people to wander in....who could possibly know who was teaching the truth...

I know "who could possibly know who was teaching the truth" - and you're supposed to, too.

...among the thousands of denominations who can’t agree on much of anything as these boards demonstrate on a daily basis?

The Holy Bible clearly speaks against denominations because they divide the body of Christ.

.....is sitting at home or in any other building reading our Bible, what Jesus told us to do?

When's the last time you asked God that question, rather than pandering to men and their denominations?

 

[Aunty Jane]

What's "archaic" is your trust in man. The Truth has never been about any "translation" per se.

Well, without translations, how much of the world would know about God, his purpose for man, and about the salvation offered by faith in Christ’s ransom?
You put your trust in the translators of the KJV....what person do you know who speaks its language in this 21st century? What’s wrong with plain understandable English?

In 2 Tim. 3:15, notice that it is God who gives scripture -- not man. Man does not even feature in this passage.

God inspired the original Scripture, but not the translations......an archaic version is the one you use, and if you had ever bothered to do a comparison with a modern English version, you would see how much more understandable Scripture is in your own language, rather than the outdated language of your ancestors.

Notice that the purpose of God giving to man, God’s inspired scripture, is so “that the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.” (v. 17)

Exactly, which is greatly enhanced by reading it in your own language....do you know how many languages the Bible is translated into? In whole or in part.....up to 3,658 different languages ad dialects. Imagine if there were no translations!

Here we see the problem generated by man's textual "criticism." Many of you believe that God inspired men to write God's words and, therefore, we better make certain we have 'scholars' and 'credentialed experts' doing the writing.

You make it sound as if textural criticism is a bad thing....if the KJV proved to be inaccurate in many places, what do you think textural criticism would achieve? It would correct those errors and help the readers to learn the truth.....not the errors that some Bibles promote due to bias in translation.

God's pattern has always been the same: He gives the COMMON man the COMMON bible in the COMMON language of the day, to do one thing -- evangelize the world.

And what, pray tell is the language of our day? NOT the language of the KJV....is it?

written by unsaved "scholars." This is the nexus of your problem i.e. faith in man rather than faith in God. Rather, touch not the unclean thing...

You’re funny....what “unsaved scholars” translated the KJV?....unless you are under the mistaken notion that men in that era were any more “saved” than those in our day?

Unlike you, I do not put my trust in any "translation." Nor do I speak with your haughtiness.

Your spirit is foul and I forgive you for your ignorance. However, I am not the One you are answerable to...

Well thank you for your forgiveness..... I am deeply humbled....
We will all stand before the same judge.....he knows who’s who.

I know "who could possibly know who was teaching the truth" - and you're supposed to, too.

I was talking about new Bible students, not being hamstrung in their Bible education by an outdated version of the Scriptures. I usually recommend that my students use whatever Bible translation that they are comfortable with along with a good concordance. We look up words to make sure that the translation is accurate. It gives them confidence to study on their own if they wish to prepare for the next lesson...or they have questions.

The Holy Bible clearly speaks against denominations because they divide the body of Christ.

And yet the divided churches of Christendom exist....all claiming Jesus as their “Lord and savior”.....how can anyone steer a person in the right direction if all these churches teach different “truths”?

When Christianity was new, there was “one Lord, one faith, one baptism”...the Christian faith, based on the teachings of God’s son.....and people were directed to go and attach themselves to those Christians because they taught the truth.....who are people to go to today? The sheep will know the voice of the shepherd....

When's the last time you asked God that question, rather than pandering to men and their denominations?

When was the last time you left a building to go out and preach the gospel of the Kingdom? (Matt 28:19-20; Matt 24:14)
And if you did knock on someone’s door, what would you tell them? What is the gospel of the kingdom exactly...?

 

[Windmill Charge]

So who has a more vested interest in fomenting wars and keeping them going.....?

That is an allegation, not proof that American forments wars.

Being no part of the political world and it’s rulership has nothing whatever to do with doing deeds of Christian kindness wherever we see a need…

Yet if one wants to change evil practices, one has to do more than treat the symptoms.
Those opposing abortion and euthanasia are protesting out side clinics, but are also involved in seeking to change laws.
Those seeking to help the poor do more 5han hand out food parcels, they support legal centres helping the poor battle the system, support efforts to change laws that adversely affect the poor.
Charities cannot operate without conforming to various national laws regulating there functions.
Even chuches have to be registered, especially if they want to claim tax excemption from taxes.

You are involved in politics, you may not vote, but your taxes support the government as do you by paying taxes and obeying the laws.

 

[Aunty Jane]

That is an allegation, not proof that American forments wars.

Rose colored glasses will not allow anyone to see the truth behind the propaganda.…unless their glasses are removed. The truth is confronting, but in a world ruled by the devil, nothing is as it appears.

America, like other nations, is classically trained in patriotism….from childhood…..but unlike more secular democracies, it is fooled into thinking that their nation is “Christian” and therefore the “good guys” in any involvement in major conflicts for which they are enriched by the sale of weapons and the mistaken notion that these patriotic souls who give their Iives “for their country”, are not just the expendable means used for political and financial gain.

Do the emotional ceremonies for the war dead bring them back to their families? Are they dying for something real, or for an evil agenda that is hidden and way more sinister than we can imagine? What about those who return from war damaged for life, either physically, emotionally or mentally? How are damaged veterans treated…..often chewed up and spat out as useless now.

How evil is the devil? We are finding out as God is lifting the lid and exposing his disgusting underbelly.

Yet if one wants to change evil practices, one has to do more than treat the symptoms.
Those opposing abortion and euthanasia are protesting out side clinics, but are also involved in seeking to change laws.

Do you honestly believe that all the protests in the world will change the core of what is really at the base of everything evil in this world? It takes place by God’s permission and in his full view, for a reason. Do you really think that God needs us to fix what’s wrong? Take a good look at what is happening in this world right now, and understand that we are players in “Trueman’s” world…(if you’ve seen the movie) nothing is what it appears to be at all. We have always had the ability to see the truth, but it has been so well disguised, that we all fell for it and put our trust in the most untrustworthy people and the institutions they created for their own greed for wealth and power.

More and more people are emerging from the delusion that satan has created in his world of deception…it is much grander than any of us can imagine. (1 John 5:19) The groundswell of those who are now becoming aware of how mercilessly they have been used for the agenda of a wealthy elite who treat us as hapless pawns and slaves in their end game…is growing. Where do you think this will lead?
God has already told us…but are we listening?

Those seeking to help the poor do more 5han hand out food parcels, they support legal centres helping the poor battle the system, support efforts to change laws that adversely affect the poor.

What did Jesus say about changing the world?
As mankind’s judge and executioner of the wicked, Christ will not bring about a partial, temporary change. He will totally eliminate all barriers to a truly fair world. He will remove sin and imperfection and destroy Satan the Devil and all those who follow his rebellious course. (Rev 19:19-20; Rev 20:1-3, 10)

The distress and suffering that God has temporarily permitted in this world will never happen again. This is what Jesus had in mind when he taught us to pray for “God’s Kingdom to come” and for his will to be ”done on earth as it is in heaven”. (Matthew 6:10) Only the coming of God’s Kingdom will right all the wrongs.

What about the poor then?…..didn’t Jesus say that we “will always havethe poor with us”? Does that mean that there will always be injustice and poverty?’ (Matt 26:6-13) No, Jesus did say that there would always be poor people.….however, the context of his promises and those contained in God’s Word shows that he meant that there would always be poor people as long as satan’s rule lasts.

He knew that no humans would ever be able to rid the world of poverty and injustice. He also knew that he would change all of that. So, where do we put our trust then? In God and in his word..…or do we think that we can really change anything to address the mounting injustices we see? No sooner is one issue resolved than a thousand more go unresolved. Man is inept and his efforts have never really succeeded….and in this world, they never will.

Charities cannot operate without conforming to various national laws regulating there functions.
Even chuches have to be registered, especially if they want to claim tax excemption from taxes.

Who makes those laws? Not God. Charities try to do what governments will not…..it’s not that they cannot, but in a world where fear is engendered at every turn, money must be spent on the military, to ostensibly protect their citizens from foreign invaders, rather than to feed and house the poor. Since the ranks of the homeless are increasing daily, who is being protected in reality? Not the lowly slaves working three jobs and living in their cars….and paying taxes for the privilege.

You are involved in politics, you may not vote, but your taxes support the government as do you by paying taxes and obeying the laws.

Jesus taught us to “pay back to Caesar what belongs to Caesar, but God’s things to God” (Matt 22:17-21)…..the paying of taxes provides citizens with roads, schools, hospitals and other public amenities, so we are to pay our dues to the government without knowing where our money is spent by them. Once it is in their hands, they determine how the money is spent……they will answer to God for that…not us.

 

[Windmill Charge]

Rose colored glasses will not allow anyone to see the truth behind the propaganda.…unless their glasses are removed. The truth is confronting, but in a world ruled by the devil, nothing is as it appears.

America, like other nations, is classically trained in patriotism….from childhood…..but unlike more secular democracies, it is fooled into thinking that their nation is “Christian” and therefore the “good guys” in any involvement in major conflicts for which they are enriched by the sale of weapons and the mistaken notion that these patriotic souls who give their Iives “for their country”, are not just the expendable means used for political and financial gain.

Do the emotional ceremonies for the war dead bring them back to their families? Are they dying for something real, or for an evil agenda that is hidden and way more sinister than we can imagine? What about those who return from war damaged for life, either physically, emotionally or mentally? How are damaged veterans treated…..often chewed up and spat out as useless now.

How evil is the devil? We are finding out as God is lifting the lid and exposing his disgusting underbelly.

Do you honestly believe that all the protests in the world will change the core of what is really at the base of everything evil in this world? It takes place by God’s permission and in his full view, for a reason. Do you really think that God needs us to fix what’s wrong? Take a good look at what is happening in this world right now, and understand that we are players in “Trueman’s” world…(if you’ve seen the movie) nothing is what it appears to be at all. We have always had the ability to see the truth, but it has been so well disguised, that we all fell for it and put our trust in the most untrustworthy people and the institutions they created for their own greed for wealth and power.

More and more people are emerging from the delusion that satan has created in his world of deception…it is much grander than any of us can imagine. (1 John 5:19) The groundswell of those who are now becoming aware of how mercilessly they have been used for the agenda of a wealthy elite who treat us as hapless pawns and slaves in their end game…is growing. Where do you think this will lead?
God has already told us…but are we listening?

What did Jesus say about changing the world?
As mankind’s judge and executioner of the wicked, Christ will not bring about a partial, temporary change. He will totally eliminate all barriers to a truly fair world. He will remove sin and imperfection and destroy Satan the Devil and all those who follow his rebellious course. (Rev 19:19-20; Rev 20:1-3, 10)

The distress and suffering that God has temporarily permitted in this world will never happen again. This is what Jesus had in mind when he taught us to pray for “God’s Kingdom to come” and for his will to be ”done on earth as it is in heaven”. (Matthew 6:10) Only the coming of God’s Kingdom will right all the wrongs.

What about the poor then?…..didn’t Jesus say that we “will always havethe poor with us”? Does that mean that there will always be injustice and poverty?’ (Matt 26:6-13) No, Jesus did say that there would always be poor people.….however, the context of his promises and those contained in God’s Word shows that he meant that there would always be poor people as long as satan’s rule lasts.

He knew that no humans would ever be able to rid the world of poverty and injustice. He also knew that he would change all of that. So, where do we put our trust then? In God and in his word..…or do we think that we can really change anything to address the mounting injustices we see? No sooner is one issue resolved than a thousand more go unresolved. Man is inept and his efforts have never really succeeded….and in this world, they never will.


Who makes those laws? Not God. Charities try to do what governments will not…..it’s not that they cannot, but in a world where fear is engendered at every turn, money must be spent on the military, to ostensibly protect their citizens from foreign invaders, rather than to feed and house the poor. Since the ranks of the homeless are increasing daily, who is being protected in reality? Not the lowly slaves working three jobs and living in their cars….and paying taxes for the privilege.

Jesus taught us to “pay back to Caesar what belongs to Caesar, but God’s things to God” (Matt 22:17-21)…..the paying of taxes provides citizens with roads, schools, hospitals and other public amenities, so we are to pay our dues to the government without knowing where our money is spent by them. Once it is in their hands, they determine how the money is spent……they will answer to God for that…not us.

The basic command is to Love God with All our being and to Love our neighbour as our selves.

Yes the ultimate gesture of love is to tell them about Jesus, but a starving or hurting person cannot concentrate on spiritual realities while trying to cope with present problems.
Thats why Christians are involved in helping through organisations.
If you want to help a down and out in your town, yes you can give cash, food clothing as a stop gap. Getting them into paid work, find accommodation, medical and legal help takes a lot more time and the moment one starts helping more than one person, than rules, regulations and laws come into affect and have to be followed.

Jesus said nothing about not following a countries laws, Peter pointed out that its only when those laws stop Christian service that we disobey.

Oh, you still have not proved that America formants wars.

 

[bluedragon]

What a load of uninformed horse manure.

The Japanese believed that the Emperor was God. That simplifies their beliefs. They were sold on the idea of giving their all to the god ...

If you have never been to Hiroshima or Nagasaki ... Both were military targets. With a city built to support their purpose. One based the Fifth Army, the other stored supplies for the invasion. If things were that simple, the bombing had a legitimate purpose. But it's deeper.

Because of their beliefs, when the Empire surrendered, many civilians chose suicide other than surrender. As the convoy of trucks made their way to the bases of occupation .....civilians would jump into the paths of the trucks and commit suicide ........they didn't need a sword or knife to end their journey.

Our housing base closed in 1974. The main street was the runway for the training of Zero Pilots. Scattered around the base were the hangers used to maintain the planes. Most of the US Housing and military bases were bases used by the Japanese military. Since we were living in Japan .....I never played "Little America" behind a barbed wire fence ......Friends and I knew Japan ......

My view of Japan is quite simple. Never, anywhere on earth, have I seen or lived among a people as a whole who were kind, considerate and the cleanest environment possible. I had more problems with Americans that were not so considerate.

There is a reason China and Koreans hate Japan. Read the history .......the Japanese allowed their atrocities to describe them best. The problem is that Japan hides it's history, the public has no knowledge about their WW2 history. They need to learn the truth.

 

[Wrangler]

Hiroshima or Nagasaki ... Both were military targets.

False. Not bombing civilian populations centers was the norm for all of human history until after WWII.

Hiroshima or Nagasaki were industrial and population centers, not military targets (like a military base), military warehouse, military HQ, etc.

 

[bluedragon]

Why Hiroshima and Nagasaki?​

The purpose of the bombings was to cripple Japan’s military prowess. Therefore, Hiroshima was the primary military target because it was one of Japan’s most important military centers, serving as the headquarters of the “Chugoku Regional Army” and the Imperial “Second Army.”

Also, Hiroshima served as the principal military shipping port for Japanese troops and supplies and the location of one of the biggest military supply depots. With over 300,000 inhabitants, it was Japan’s seventh-largest city in the 1940s.

The Soviet Union’s war declaration on Japan on August 8, 1945, a few days after the bombing of Hiroshima, could have sparked the bombing of Nagasaki. It’s possible that President Harry Truman ordered dropping the atomic bomb on Nagasaki to compel Japan to surrender and deter the Soviet Union by demonstrating American military superiority.


Before using Liberal historical talking points in response to statements made by those who have been to both cities and discussed with those that survived the bombing. and knowing exactly what the population was doing prior to the bombing. It's better to study the actual history of the city and why it was bombed. The lies told come from Academia with a dedicated purpose of a vain attempt to distort the truth.

In other words, I am well educated but have the distinct advantage of being boots on the very ground where the blasts occurred. I'm not a fan of distorted Acedemic half-truths.

Therefore Wrangler, in this case ....been there, saw it firsthand and spoke to those in the know.

Blue Dragon comes the High School mascot of the Narimasu Dragons in Tokyo.

 

[David in NJ]

What a load of uninformed horse manure.

The Japanese believed that the Emperor was God. That simplifies their beliefs. They were sold on the idea of giving their all to the god ...

If you have never been to Hiroshima or Nagasaki ... Both were military targets. With a city built to support their purpose. One based the Fifth Army, the other stored supplies for the invasion. If things were that simple, the bombing had a legitimate purpose. But it's deeper.

Because of their beliefs, when the Empire surrendered, many civilians chose suicide other than surrender. As the convoy of trucks made their way to the bases of occupation .....civilians would jump into the paths of the trucks and commit suicide ........they didn't need a sword or knife to end their journey.

Our housing base closed in 1974. The main street was the runway for the training of Zero Pilots. Scattered around the base were the hangers used to maintain the planes. Most of the US Housing and military bases were bases used by the Japanese military. Since we were living in Japan .....I never played "Little America" behind a barbed wire fence ......Friends and I knew Japan ......

My view of Japan is quite simple. Never, anywhere on earth, have I seen or lived among a people as a whole who were kind, considerate and the cleanest environment possible. I had more problems with Americans that were not so considerate.

There is a reason China and Koreans hate Japan. Read the history .......the Japanese allowed their atrocities to describe them best. The problem is that Japan hides it's history, the public has no knowledge about their WW2 history. They need to learn the truth.

The problem is that Japan hides it's history, the public has no knowledge about their WW2 history. They need to learn the truth.

100%

 

[Wrangler]

The purpose of the bombings was to cripple Japan’s military prowess. Therefore, Hiroshima was the primary military target

Your rationalization is rejected for it means, in effect, there is no non-military targets.

 

[lforrest]

There was a list of potential targets, command wanted to ensure there was no cloud cover. If there was the plane moved on to the next target on the list.

I heard if they didn't drop the bomb they would not be able to make it back, and would need to ditch the plane. So the crew was determined to drop the bomb, even if there wasn't a clear visual of the target.

Cities were seen as a valid target for conventional carpet bombing, because everyone was supporting the war machine. Entire counties were mobilized for war. From the farmers providing food, to the factory workers making ball bearings. As the war went on more and more soldiers died, and more were drafted. Until counties like Germany and the Soviet Union were scraping the bottom of the barrel, fielding children and old men.

 

[bluedragon]

In my career, My Rep from Texas told me a story while we were making customer visits. They used submarines as rendezvous points for bombers across the Pacific. The submarine he was on was ordered to surface and wait to report two things. One was the time the Enola Gay passed over their position. Second, wait and report what they saw on the horizon. Being a young officer, he was assigned as lookout in the tower as the Gay passed overhead. They were looking through their binoculars as the bomber made the bombing run. They re[ported a large mushroom cloud climb in elevation. Then reported an estimated elevation. Orders were made to dive, then return to patrol.
They didn't realize they had been witnesses to that bombing. This crew thought the bomber had hit an ammunition dump. It was not until they returned to Pearl, that they were made aware of the new bomb the US had developed.

That job was an interesting view of history. The Founder and owner of the Company had worked as an Engineer in WW2. That crew of GE Engineers ....developed sonar for the US Navy. They were also witnesses to the results of the Philadelphia Experiment. We asked what caused him to form his own company. His answer amusing "I got fired from GE."

The lab was across the hall from my office. One afternoon I took a break to look inside the lab. A group was gathered and working at the tables .......TESLA experiments were being run. This group was looking to levitate a frog. I interrupted ......"Guys, have you seen this?" Within the electric field at the end of the bench ......floated a metal disc. "I don't think dead frogs are interesting .......However, I believe Tesla was more interested in this result." Beckwith Electric was the place to be.

 

[Aunty Jane]

the Japanese allowed their atrocities to describe them best. The problem is that Japan hides it's history, the public has no knowledge about their WW2 history. They need to learn the truth.

The world needs to know the truth about all wars. There is not a single war fought in the Christian era that has God’s approval…..let alone using such evil weaponry that is designed purely for the mass destruction of human life and property. Innocent people are not “collateral damage”…they are victims of criminal activity, (cold blooded murder) on both sides. No Christian has sanction from God to kill innocent women and children as part of a country’s military force. The world will do what the world wants to do, but Christians must be “no part” of it. (John 17:16; John 18:36)

When Jesus told us to be “no part of the world”….he meant us to be no part of its rulership or its political agendas….no part of its greedy commercialism, or it’s false worship…..because there is only one god and ruler of this world. (1 John 5:19) The devil controls all three.

Any who participate or approve of what evil humans are doing, will find no place with the “Prince of Peace”.

America is the only nation to have used nuclear weapons on human beings in the full knowledge of what this weapon would do to those upon whom it was used. It’s creation and implementation were satanic…pure evil, justified by propaganda. The images of that horror will be imprinted on the minds of all who see them for the rest of their lives In this world…..gratefully though, this world is soon to “pass away”….along with all who love what it is doing.

“Do not love either the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him; 16  because everything in the world—the desire of the flesh and the desire of the eyes and the showy display of one’s means of life—does not originate with the Father, but originates with the world. 17  Furthermore, the world is passing away and so is its desire, but the one who does the will of God remains forever.” (1 John 2:15-17)