the woman and the flood

[Eternally Grateful]

The beast is not a world power.
The peoples from.the nations follow after the beast.They go to him.He doesn't come to them.

Well God said otherwise.

rev 13: 7 It was granted to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them. And authority was given him over every [d]tribe, tongue, and nation. 8 All who dwell on the earth will worship him, whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

You can aso look up dan 2 and daniel 7 and other passages which say the same..

Shoot,he can't even go into the wilderness where the woman flees.That is out of his realm.

Thats because God protects the woman, Because God made a promise to them through abraham, Isaac and jacob.,

And God keeps his promises..

 

[VictoryinJesus]

When we do not take them literally. We take away from the purpose and meaning of why he told us those things to begin with.

When we do not take them literally…you say.
There is the literal like circumcision made with hands…and the circumcision made without hands. If we are only focused on one …the literal all we push is a circumcision made with hands. There is also the circumcision made without hands in the removal of the foreskin of the heart.

Same with the temple…there is that temple made with hands…literal. And that temple made without hands. Just like when Jesus healed the one tossed between Fire and Water, this one in torment caught between both, thrown in and out of the Fire into the Water into the fire into the water…if we only see that as literal …we miss the magnitude of one in torment tossed between the two. And what Jesus was revealing in God whom is Spirit will save the man out of torment caught going back and forth between the water and the fire. Same with the man whose hand was withered and Jesus restored the withered hand whole same as the other. Think of the parable of the seed and that which is withered. Countless times Jesus fed with the baskets the multitude which were hungry or even when Christ walked upon the water…if all we see is the literal in it must and has to remain literal …the other is rejected. Like how God restored the withered hand…or why the man was pulled from the torment of the fire and the water going back and forth between the two, or why baskets with fragments were left over and why Jesus walked upon the water, with all things put under His feet…all of that is rejected as unnecessary for the sake of the literal interpretation being the better and preferred interpretation.

Example.

God said messiah would come 69 weeks of years after the command to restore Jerusalem. (Dan 9) fulfilled literally

Open to interpretation which will be debated over and over and over…yet I assume you are certain your interpretation is correct. So it must be literal. Because you say it has to be. Are you afraid if it’s not literal? Will you be disappointed if it’s spiritual?

God said Jesus would be born of a virgin (is 7: 14) fulfilled literally

Jesus born of Spirit? Define virgin? Forget that because I’ve heard the literal interpretation of a virgin. She hasn’t had sex with any other. Not like an adulterous woman…

God said Jesus would be called out of egypt (hos 11:1) Fulfilled literally

Yet Egypt is literal? You’ll take it all the way back to Egypt in the OT and make it current for today but in doing so you’ll have to make Egypt not literal while mixing it with “it has to be literal”

God said Jesus would be born in Bethlehem (Mic 5: 2) fulfilled literally

I’m not against any literal interpretation. I’m not against that the temple was destroyed as God said it would be. I’m only saying if that is all we see is the teaching of a literal birth…and neglect then the Spirit teaching of “born of God” “born of Spirit” …then everything has to always mean literal, and that which is first which is flesh. Take “it has to be literal” unto The Revelation of Jesus Christ and you’ll have a hard time with it must be literal.

God said he would teach in parables (Ps 78: 1-2) Fulfilled literally

So you say the parables are literal yet He said the literal interpretation would confuse those who desire those literal earthly things so they do not understand that which is Spirit…the parables teach of heavenly things? If the parables are literal …why is the Spirit of God needed to hear what the parable teaches or else it’s unseen?…as in I’ll speak to you no more in parables but speak plainly and show you the Father. Why did the disciples struggle so much between the literal and the Spiritual? You don’t see this struggle between misunderstanding what Jesus Christ was saying to them countless times? I can’t understand not recognizing this and why we still shout “speak to us in literal terms and images…tell us of earthly things!” Do we not see the angst of confusion when the disciples struggled with what He was telling them …they’re forcing literal interpretations…until the Spirit showed them what He was telling them in the Spirit of God.

God said he would begin his ministry in Galilee (Is 9: 1-2) fulfilled literally

Ok. He was lead by the Spirit …He was not lead around by the literal. He even said “You are from beneath and earthly. You speak of earthly things. I am from heaven, come down from above. And I speak of heavenly things.”

His only doing what He sees the Father doing. His only saying what He hears the Father saying. God is Spirit. Does God say and do literal or does God the Father do and say Spirit, which is Life?

God said he would be preceded by a forrunner (Is 40: 3-4) fulfilled literally

Ok. Fulfilled By the Spirit? We have a forerunner…and where He entered in before us…going beyond the second vail, He entered into the holiest of Holy…
make that literal.

God said he would be despised and rejected (Is %3: 3) Literally fulfilled

Ok. But there’s a bigger picture happening of not of flesh and blood but spiritual wickedness in high places.

God said he would be betrayed for 30 Peices of silver (Zech 11: 12- 13) Fulfilled literally)

Which was used to purchase the potters field…the field of blood. Make the potters field literal . I get you may say “I can.” But the purchase goes beyond the literal (Imo)

God said that babylon would take Jerusalem it was literally fulfilled

Define Babylon literally.

when people tell you something God said will not happen the way God said it. Run from them.. because they do not understand God.

So you say… is it safe to assume you want to continue to be taught and spoken to of literal things? If this is the desire then hold tight to those literal things …that is your choice. I missed somehow quoting “God said the blind would see, the deaf will hear and the lame will walk (Is 35: 5-6) Fulfilled literally” no denying Jesus Christ healed the blind, the deaf, and the lame …but you are missing the point I’m trying to make where those literal things taught of God healing the blind and opening the ears of the deaf and the lame walk in Spirit. I don’t see how you can ignore that those things were temporary revealing the things which are not temporary. Do we prefer the symbol that points to that which is true? Do we prefer a circumcision made with hands over the circumcision made of God of the foreskin of the heart? Have you ever been literally blind or literally deaf or literally lame? Do you claim God has healed your blindness to see(see what? Literally it Spiritually?) (literally then you were literally blind?) , has your deaf ears been opened to hearing His Voice and has He caused your legs once lame to walk? Then you (Imo) are claiming it as the Spiritual healing of blindness, and the Spiritual healing of the deaf ears, and the Spiritual healing of the lame. Yet you say it has to be literal and remain so…rejecting anything beyond “literal” …see its so confusing to me that you’ll claim spiritual things for yourself but continue to push remaining strictly literal for the sake of keeping literal doctrines.

 

[tailgator]

Well God said otherwise.

rev 13: 7 It was granted to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them. And authority was given him over every [d]tribe, tongue, and nation. 8 All who dwell on the earth will worship him, whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

You can aso look up dan 2 and daniel 7 and other passages which say the same..

Thats because God protects the woman, Because God made a promise to them through abraham, Isaac and jacob.,

And God keeps his promises..

Daniel 7 describes the middle east.Ten Muslim nations and Israel.

Israel which is the little horn defeated Syria,Jordan and Egypt when it took control of the seven heads.

Nothing but peace and quiet in Rome where christians live.





You don't worship Israel do you?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

When we do not take them literally…you say.
There is the literal like circumcision made with hands…and the circumcision made without hands. If we are only focused on one …the literal all we push is a circumcision made with hands. There is also the circumcision made without hands in the removal of the foreskin of the heart.

Same with the temple…there is that temple made with hands…literal. And that temple made without hands. Just like when Jesus healed the one tossed between Fire and Water, this one in torment caught between both, thrown in and out of the Fire into the Water into the fire into the water…if we only see that as literal …we miss the magnitude of one in torment tossed between the two. And what Jesus was revealing in God whom is Spirit will save the man out of torment caught going back and forth between the water and the fire. Same with the man whose hand was withered and Jesus restored the withered hand whole same as the other. Think of the parable of the seed and that which is withered. Countless times Jesus fed with the baskets the multitude which were hungry or even when Christ walked upon the water…if all we see is the literal in it must and has to remain literal …the other is rejected. Like how God restored the withered hand…or why the man was pulled from the torment of the fire and the water going back and forth between the two, or why baskets with fragments were left over and why Jesus walked upon the water, with all things put under His feet…all of that is rejected as unnecessary for the sake of the literal interpretation being the better and preferred interpretation.

sis, we are talking about prophecy.

Circumcision made without hands is not prophesy, it is more like a parable. Or the other events you talk about. Which is using symbolic terms to represent spiritual truths.

That is not what prophesy does. If you try to treat prophecy like symbology, you will never understand prophecy.

if you try to interpret symbolic terms or parables like prophecy. You will never understand these terms or the spiritual truth.

Open to interpretation which will be debated over and over and over…yet I assume you are certain your interpretation is correct. So it must be literal. Because you say it has to be. Are you afraid if it’s not literal? Will you be disappointed if it’s spiritual?

No it is not open to interpretation.

From the going forth off the commands to restor jerusalem until Messih the prince entered jerusalem on a donkey was exactly 69 weeks.

so if you want to take it symbolically. You just proved my point, And you missed the great God who told us the day, and it happened.. and rejected it or missed it..

Jesus born of Spirit? Define virgin? Forget that because I’ve heard the literal interpretation of a virgin. She hasn’t had sex with any other. Not like an adulterous woman…

I just take the Bible at his word.

and it literally came true

Yet Egypt is literal?

Yes it was, Jesus was born, and the king tried to kill him, God told Jesus parents to take the child and Go to Egypt. He later returned to isreal

Literally fulfilled.

You’ll take it all the way back to Egypt in the OT and make it current for today but in doing so you’ll have to make Egypt not literal while mixing it with “it has to be literal”

lol. This is gettin old real quick.

I’m not against any literal interpretation. I’m not against that the temple was destroyed as God said it would be. I’m only saying if that is all we see is the teaching of a literal birth…and neglect then the Spirit teaching of “born of God” “born of Spirit” …then everything has to always mean literal, and that which is first which is flesh. Take “it has to be literal” unto The Revelation of Jesus Christ and you’ll have a hard time with it must be literal.

PROPHECY IS NOT USED TO SHOW A SPIRITUAL TRUTH.

if you are going to twist it and say there atre two possible interpretations one literal. And one spiritual. Then you will never understand.

So you say the parables are literal

No I did not say this

I am done, You like always take things and twist them to support your view. And just like you did. You misrepresent what i said.

I can not continue like this,, You sadden me, the truth is there for you to see. But you have to try to make everything spiritual. So you will never see ..

I am not even going on, because if you did the same to the rest of my PROOFS that God is a God who tells us things will happen, and they do. And try to say they did nto literally happen and I am missing the spiritual truth, then I just can not help you. No one can but God

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Daniel 7 describes the middle east.Ten Muslim nations and Israel.

Israel which is the little horn defeated Syria,Jordan and Egypt when it took control of the seven heads.

Nothing but peace and quiet in Rome where christians live.





You don't worship Israel do you?

No it does not

It describes 4 gentile kingdoms,

You do not understand biblical prophecy well do you?

Your the one focusing on Israel not me,, so why do you ask if I worship them?

Troll??

 

[tailgator]

No it does not

It describes 4 gentile kingdoms,

You do not understand biblical prophecy well do you?

Your the one focusing on Israel not me,, so why do you ask if I worship them?

Troll??

Almost all.of the bible is about Israel.

Your problem is you don't believe it is.


Tell me this ,who reigns over the nations in the Lord's land?

Have you learned anything?

Isaiah 14:2
Nations will take them and bring them to their own place. And Israel will take possession of the nations and make them male and female servants in the LORD’s land. They will make captives of their captors and rule over their oppressors.


Do you see where it says Israel shall rule over the nations in the Lords land?
Have you learned anything from the word of God today?


Here,say it with me,
Israel shall rule over the nations in the Lord's land.
You can say it.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

God said he would teach in parables (Ps 78: 1-2) Fulfilled literally

No I did not say this

^ This was in response to where I said that you said the parables are to be taken literally. When actually what you said was this: “God said he would teach in parables (Ps 78: 1-2) Fulfilled literally”

So I’m sorry for misquoting what you actually said. I took it as your saying the parables are literal. You are right that was my changing what you actually said.

We just see it differently. I do get frustrated. Not with you but with all of it. It’s hard to know what to believe. I do feel like I’m drowning in too many doctrines that all say something different. I do see parables as prophecy. To me I see the Spirit of prophecy which is the testimony of Christ in most if not all of the Word. See…I don’t know how you say the circumcision made with hands didn’t foretell of the circumcision made without hands and that of the heart in the removal of the foreskin. That covering or veil of blindness that is removed when there is a turning to God. I don’t see how water baptism is not prophetic of “buried with Him in the likeness of His death, being lifted up New” one of my favorite prophetic verses is in Job 38:23-27
Which I have reserved against the time of trouble, against the day of battle and war? [24] By what way is the light parted, which scatters the east wind upon the earth? [25] Who has divided a watercourse for the overflowing of waters, or a way for the lightning of thunder; [26] To cause it to rain on the earth, where no man is; on the wilderness, wherein there is no man(John wept for no man was found, but John was shown a Lamb); [27] To satisfy the desolate and waste ground; and to cause the bud of the tender herb to spring forth?

To cause the bud of the tender herb to spring forth…is it wrong to see this as prophetic —in the way “for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy. Where it says He will grow as a tender plant out from dry ground. Revelation 19:10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of your brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

Even in Numbers 5 in the Law of Jealousies …it follows Romans concerning the woman made free by the body of Christ to bear children unto God. Even in that creepy ritual of the law of jealousies there is “the woman who is declared free and clean and she bears fruit” how is that not prophetic for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy. Same as to set the captives free, to open the eyes of the blind, the deaf hear and the lame walk. Is this not prophetic?

You mentioned His riding in on the ass. I get it happened. But I still see it all as prophetic in even their laying the garments in the way. Even where the colt which had never been rode being tied in the way, at the door, where two paths meet…we could even go back to the beginning when God said “Let there be Light” which is prophetic.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Consider another perspective of the flood cast out after the woman. Almost always (unless I’ve misunderstood) flood and wind and drowning in perdition is in the context of a flood of mens doctrines. To me this could be the flood cast out to destroy the woman. What weapon would satan use most to destroy the children of God? We think war with weapon fire. But what is swelling and drowning and harming more than anything …a flood of falsehood and empty doctrine drowning men. Beginning at the start of changing God’s words is this the weapon cast out as a flood to wash (carry away) the woman, to drown her …? how strange the flood is cast from the mouth…like a wave vomit of lies and everything evil and false coming after the woman to swallow her up. Like the verse where they wrestle with words to their own demise. Yes…I think the flood could easily be all the doctrines that drown so that no fruit is brought to perfection. To hinder, to prevent…the most damage is falsehood and lies and strange doctrines, vain imagination meant to destroy which satan wants to do …to steal, kill and destroy…even he steals the words of God to make them his own although to do harm to the woman. Which is worse for satan to set up gun fire to kill a man? Or for satan to take the very thing meant to help man and twist and use it to drown any reconciliation unto God?

How is she nourished in the wilderness? What is her food?

The following appear to portray invading armies as a "flood."

Isa 8.7 therefore the Lord is about to bring against them the mighty floodwaters of the Euphrates— the king of Assyria with all his pomp. It will overflow all its channels, run over all its banks

Dan 9.26 The end will come like a flood: War will continue until the end, and desolations have been decreed.

Dan 11.10 His sons will prepare for war and assemble a great army, which will sweep on like an irresistible flood and carry the battle as far as his fortress.

Dan 11.40 He will invade many countries and sweep through them like a flood.

Nahum 1.8 but with an overwhelming flood he will make an end of Nineveh

I'm not saying that "flood" cannot be used to portray other things--it really depends on context. In Rev 12, we have Satan spewing a flood after the Woman when there is very little explanation as to what it is. So we're left trying to imagine what the author meant (God).

Undoubtedly Satan sends deceptions upon mankind. In 2 Thes 2 we read that Satan deceives the world through the lies of Antichrist. So you wouldn't be wrong to think that this kind of "flood" will happen. And I think it's already happening.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Almost all.of the bible is about Israel.

Your problem is you don't believe it is.

That does not mean the 4 kindgoms of daniel 2 and 7 are israel.

Your problem, is your too focused on israel. So you can;t see anythign else

Tell me this ,who reigns over the nations in the Lord's land?

Lets see. Babylon did, until Media persia took over, then greece did. Them rome did up until the time of christ. Where Ceaser was the ruler over the promised land.

so there we have many centuries where it was not Israel who ruled over it. And it literally does not even today,

Have you learned anything?

Have you? You’re certainly not showing me you understand the word of God.

Isaiah 14:2
Nations will take them and bring them to their own place. And Israel will take possession of the nations and make them male and female servants in the LORD’s land. They will make captives of their captors and rule over their oppressors.

yes this will happen, WHEN CHRIST RETURNS.

I have never denied it. But like everything, you keep posting the same stuff over and over thinking what?

Do you see where it says Israel shall rule over the nations in the Lords land?
Have you learned anything from the word of God today?

They will rule the world. But they will have slaves from ever nation. Do you know what. Slave is?

Egypt will not be in the promised land, Nor will Russia or china or whatever they are called in that time

I would highly suggest before you try to call other people stupid or unlearned that you learn yourself.

Here,say it with me,
Israel shall rule over the nations in the Lord's land.
You can say it.

No.

because they will have slaves in their land from other nations, serve them,

but they will also rule nations who are not in their land.

You want to stick to a few small verses and ignore the rest of the word then call me stupid?

dude get over yourself.

 

[tailgator]

No it does not

It describes 4 gentile kingdoms,

You do not understand biblical prophecy well do you?

Your the one focusing on Israel not me,, so why do you ask if I worship them?

Troll??

Maybe after youve learned that Israel shall reign over the nations in the Lord's land ,you might be able to understand who persecutes Israel in that land before it is given to Israel .


Isaiah 14:2
Nations will take them and bring them to their own place. And Israel will take possession of the nations and make them male and female servants in the LORD’s land. They will make captives of their captors and rule over their oppressors.



Here in Daniel 7 ,Israel is persecuted in the land of Israel before it is given to the saints of Israel to reign


Daniel 7
24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.

25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

26 But the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy it unto the end.

27 And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.





Who rules the land of Israel today?

 

[tailgator]

That does not mean the 4 kindgoms of daniel 2 and 7 are israel.

Your problem, is your too focused on israel. So you can;t see anythign else

Lets see. Babylon did, until Media persia took over, then greece did. Them rome did up until the time of christ. Where Ceaser was the ruler over the promised land.

so there we have many centuries where it was not Israel who ruled over it. And it literally does not even today,

Have you? You’re certainly not showing me you understand the word of God.

yes this will happen, WHEN CHRIST RETURNS.

I have never denied it. But like everything, you keep posting the same stuff over and over thinking what?



They will rule the world. But they will have slaves from ever nation. Do you know what. Slave is?

Egypt will not be in the promised land, Nor will Russia or china or whatever they are called in that time

I would highly suggest before you try to call other people stupid or unlearned that you learn yourself.

No.

because they will have slaves in their land from other nations, serve them,

but they will also rule nations who are not in their land.

You want to stick to a few small verses and ignore the rest of the word then call me stupid?

dude get over yourself.

You can't even acknowledge the word of God.
Not even one verse.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Daniel 11 :21-45 is about the same despicable man who ce to power through flattery and intrigue and who was not in line for royal succession.
The same man who moves his embassy to Jerusalem in Daniel 11:45.

The kings who ruled his kingdom before him are mentioned before him in Daniel 11:7-20.
These are not ancient events as Jason taught.

It isn't as Jason taught. We are left considering what Daniel's prophecies meant in history because he had already identified Babylon, Medo-Persia, and Greece.

The history of the Greeks in that time appears to be relayed with remarkable accuracy in Dan 11. Antiochus 4 naturally followed in this little stream of history, involving an interplay between Syria and Egypt.

And Antiochus certainly was a despicable man, in the foreshadowing of Antichrist. He set up a palatial tent in the vicinity of Jerusalem--a war tent. His general was stationed there to represent him until he got back from fighting the Persians. He never made it back.

To be fair to you and to me I admit that both your position and my position have supporters among the scholars. So it really is a matter of choice. I wish you well on your studies.

 

[tailgator]

It isn't as Jason taught. We are left considering what Daniel's prophecies meant in history because he had already identified Babylon, Medo-Persia, and Greece.

The history of the Greeks in that time appears to be relayed with remarkable accuracy in Dan 11. Antiochus 4 naturally followed in this little stream of history, involving an interplay between Syria and Egypt.

And Antiochus certainly was a despicable man, in the foreshadowing of Antichrist. He set up a palatial tent in the vicinity of Jerusalem--a war tent. His general was stationed there to represent him until he got back from fighting the Persians. He never made it back.

To be fair to you and to me I admit that both your position and my position have supporters among the scholars. So it really is a matter of choice. I wish you well on your studies.

Very few people know my position.
Donald Trump will be giving israel.the US armed forces next year.
Israels conscription will come to an end and everyone in israel.will be receiving the microchip implants netanyahu said he wants Israelis to receive a couple years ago.Everyone except a few disciples who won't be buying anything.

Mathew 10
9 Provide neither gold, nor silver, nor brass in your purses,

10 Nor scrip for your journey, neither two coats, neither shoes, nor yet staves: for the workman is worthy of his meat.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Daniel 11 has nothing to do with antiochus.
You are putting all your faith in a Hellenistic Jew who interpreted Daniel end times prophecy as being fulfilled thousands of years before end times.

No, I'm putting my faith in history with its relatively few sources. Dan 11 is viewed by many as a summary of Syrian and Egyptian kings in the time following Daniel, culminating in a nefarious king who played a significant role in Israel's life. That king was Antiochus 4. And a good number of scholars believe the reference was to him.

Do you honestly believe The time of the and was in 164 BC?

As I said I don't believe there is a single "time of the end." Time of the end of what? You have to have context to know what thing is coming to an end!

Futurists often view the "time of the end" as a rigid term applying only to the last days. That isn't true either in grammar or in the Bible. Daniel appears to write this way, that whatever event he is describing has a time for its "end."

Daniel 12:4
But you, Daniel, roll up and seal the words of the scroll until the time of the end. Many will go here and there to increase knowledge.”


If Jason was correct and the abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel was fulfilled in 264 BC,then Jesus would be wrong.Do you believe Jason is right and Jesus is wrong?

I don't agree with your "either-or fallacy." And I reject your notion of injecting Jason into everything here. If he was right and others used his history as a resource, it is the history that validates the thing, and not just the messenger.

There were two, and not just one, "abominations of desolation." The one in Dan 9 refers to the Roman Army that destroyed Jerusalem and the Temple in 70 AD. The one in Dan 11 refers to Antiochus 4 who murdered many orthodox Jews who refused to surrender to his idolatry.

Again, the term "abomination of desolation" does not have to have just one technical meaning. The term can be applied in more than a single historical context. You're applying an Interpretive Fallacy when you do this, inferring that the use of a term must be understood in the same way wherever it is used. This is false, and is recognized as a fallacy by all.

 

[tailgator]

No, I'm putting my faith in history with its relatively few sources. Dan 11 is viewed by many as a summary of Syrian and Egyptian kings in the time following Daniel, culminating in a nefarious king who played a significant role in Israel's life. That king was Antiochus 4. And a good number of scholars believe the reference was to him.

As I said I don't believe there is a single "time of the end." Time of the end of what? You have to have context to know what thing is coming to an end!

Futurists often view the "time of the end" as a rigid term applying only to the last days. That isn't true either in grammar or in the Bible. Daniel appears to write this way, that whatever event he is describing has a time for its "end."

I don't agree with your "either-or fallacy." And I reject your notion of injecting Jason into everything here. If he was right and others used his history as a resource, it is the history that validates the thing, and not just the messenger.

There were two, and not just one, "abominations of desolation." The one in Dan 9 refers to the Roman Army that destroyed Jerusalem and the Temple in 70 AD. The one in Dan 11 refers to Antiochus 4 who murdered many orthodox Jews who refused to surrender to his idolatry.

Again, the term "abomination of desolation" does not have to have just one technical meaning. The term can be applied in more than a single historical context. You're applying an Interpretive Fallacy when you do this, inferring that the use of a term must be understood in the same way wherever it is used. This is false, and is recognized as a fallacy by all.

No,the abomination of desolation spoken of by the prophet Daniel has one technical meaning.

It is the object used by the United States armed forces after Israel has been overcome by its enemies.It takes place on the day of the Lord and is actual Israel military policy.

It is called the Samson option.Its causes great tribulation,the likes of which has never been seen or shall.ever be seen again.

Massive retaliation of nuclear weapons both in and outside of Israel against israel.enrmies.

The Samson Option (Hebrew: ברירת שמשון, romanized: b'rerat shimshon) is Israel's deterrence strategy of massive retaliation with nuclear weapons as a "last resort" against a country whose military has invaded and/or destroyed much of Israel.[1] Commentators also have employed the term to refer to situations where non-nuclear, non-Israeli actors have threatened conventional weapons retaliation.[2]


Luke 21
25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;

26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.


Revelation 6
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

 

[Randy Kluth]

Very few people know my position.

I don't think God would reveal information to just a few people!

Donald Trump will be giving israel.the US armed forces next year.
Israels conscription will come to an end and everyone in israel.will be receiving the microchip implants netanyahu said he wants Israelis to receive a couple years ago.Everyone except a few disciples who won't be buying anything.

What do you base this belief on?

 

[Randy Kluth]

No,the abomination of desolation spoken of by the prophet Daniel has one technical meaning.

Your position is noted. As I said, I don't agree. Dan 9.27 refers, in my view, to the Roman army who destroyed Jerusalem and the Temple in 70 AD. Antiochus 4 murdered thousands of Jews during his reign of terror, and he committed sacrilege against the Temple.

Two different "abominations" and two different "desolations." They both proved to be abominable pagans in territory devoted to God's holiness. And both committed great devastation upon God's People.

It is the object used by the United States armed forces after Israel has been overcome by its enemies.It takes place on the day of the Lord and is actual Israel military policy.

You apparently think an ancient prophet was writing about something that would make no sense to him or to his readers?

Luke 21
25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;

26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.


Revelation 6
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

Yes, it will be pretty frightening! I personally think it will be the buildup to a final nuclear war--perhaps WW3? But it may take place in the end within a single hour. It doesn't take long for nukes to launch and destroy entire cities and large population centers. What will be left to fight for?

 

[tailgator]

I don't think God would reveal information to just a few people!

What do you base this belief on?

Scripture.mostly Daniel 11.
Daniel 11 corresponds to revelation and the Olivet discourse.

 

[tailgator]

Your position is noted. As I said, I don't agree. Dan 9.27 refers, in my view, to the Roman army who destroyed Jerusalem and the Temple in 70 AD. Antiochus 4 murdered thousands of Jews during his reign of terror, and he committed sacrilege against the Temple.

Two different "abominations" and two different "desolations." They both proved to be abominable pagans in territory devoted to God's holiness. And both committed great devastation upon God's People.

You apparently think an ancient prophet was writing about something that would make no sense to him or to his readers?

Yes, it will be pretty frightening! I personally think it will be the buildup to a final nuclear war--perhaps WW3? But it may take place in the end within a single hour. It doesn't take long for nukes to launch and destroy entire cities and large population centers. What will be left to fight for?

No,Daniel was not writing anything he would understand.
As for his readers,I am one of them.

The book is sealed till the time of the end.No one would understand it till the time of the end when these things are fulfilled.

Daniel says he doesn't understand these things.

Daniel 12

8 And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things?

9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.

10 Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.

11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.

13 But go thou thy way till the end be: for thou shalt rest, and stand in thy lot at the end of the days.

 

[Randy Kluth]

No,Daniel was not writing anything he would understand.
As for his readers,I am one of them.

The book is sealed till the time of the end.No one would understand it till the time of the end when these things are fulfilled.

Daniel says he doesn't understand these things.

Daniel 12

8 And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things?

9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.

10 Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.

11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.

13 But go thou thy way till the end be: for thou shalt rest, and stand in thy lot at the end of the days.

There is a difference between giving a time-dated prophecy and giving gibberish. Peter said this...

Peter 1.10 Concerning this salvation, the prophets, who spoke of the grace that was to come to you, searched intently and with the greatest care, 11 trying to find out the time and circumstances to which the Spirit of Christ in them was pointing when he predicted the sufferings of the Messiah and the glories that would follow. 12 It was revealed to them that they were not serving themselves but you, when they spoke of the things that have now been told you by those who have preached the gospel to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven. Even angels long to look into these things.

The things Peter here referred to were prophecies that did make sense to readers, but could not be fully appreciated until they were fulfilled. They weren't gibberish. There was a moral, spiritual quality to the prophecies, and they were rational. But knowing precisely how they would be fulfilled was left to the history that saw them happen.

Daniel would not be given to share revelation that was pure gibberish to his readers. The prophecies made sense both morally and spiritually. But precisely how they would unfold was left to history to unveil. Otherwise, why ever read a future prophecy at all, if it is only so much gibberish?