the woman and the flood

[tailgator]

He told them to LEAVE JERUSALEM.

Matt 24: 16 “then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let him who is on the housetop not go down to take anything out of his house. 18 And let him who is in the field not go back to get his clothes. 19 But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! 20 And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22 And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the [c]elect’s sake those days will be shortened.

He did not tell anyone to stay

Flee.. to another city..

Its in black and white

do what?

Ok, I can not continue with this, I am not sure where you are coming up with this, No one I know or ever met says what you are saying You will need to explain more. then you will have to explain why Jesus told everyone in Judea to flea to the montains when the see the event that will occur

Because right now. your not doing very well.

You should read the gospel some time.

 

[tailgator]

Many historical facts come from single sources. The question is, are the sources credible? And the question follows: What are your sources?

The "time of the end" in Dan 12.1 may indeed have a "last days" context, and so can refer to the "end" of matters concerned with that. From Dan 11 to Dan 12.1 there is an historical sweep from the time of Antiochus 4 to the Roman era and beyond, leading to the time of the resurrection, which is in the "last days." The "end" of those matters certainly do involve the last days.

But in Dan 8 and 11 the "time of the end" seems to concern the end of historical events involving Antiochus 4. So I think we should distinguish between the "end" of things concerning Antiochus 4 and the "end" of the age, which is concerned with the Antichrist.

Terms do not have a fixed meaning here, and have to be interpreted based on context, and not on some assumed "futurist" version of ancient prophecies. The "end" does not automatically mean "the end of the world." It could be the "end of sacrifices," or the "end of the temple." It could be the "end of Antiochus" or the "end of distress associated with a particular event." In some cases involving futurist prophecies it may be the "end of the age."

Daniel 11 has nothing to do with antiochus.
You are putting all your faith in a Hellenistic Jew who interpreted Daniel end times prophecy as being fulfilled thousands of years before end times.

It was Jason of Cyrene who claimed zmtiochus fulfilled Daniels prophecy.

Do you honestly believe The time of the and was in 164 BC?

Daniel 12:4
But you, Daniel, roll up and seal the words of the scroll until the time of the end. Many will go here and there to increase knowledge.”


If Jason was correct and the abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel was fulfilled in 264 BC,then Jesus would be wrong.Do you believe Jason is right and Jesus is wrong?

Mathew 24
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)


According to Jason and all who believe his word,the abomination of desolation was fulfilled in 164 bc.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Because it was Herod who tried to kill Christ as soon as he was born
The man who felt he and he alone is king of the Jews.

He was not even king of the jews.

He was a puppet of rome.

And he knew it..

but this does not even matter. wqe are talking about events which happen AFTER Jesus rose and ascended to his throne.. Herod was long since gone by this time

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Why would the saints of God need to flee when they are redeemed?

You believe only the saints who can run fast will be saved?

Because Jesus told them to?

Luke 21

25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;

26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.

27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.

28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

Yes, this is the future return of Christ.

What does that have to do with Jesus telling EVERYONE in Judea to FLEE to the mountains?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

You should read the gospel some time.

I have.

You should read what Jesus said sometime

why does God warn people. to help prepair them for what is to come maybe?

 

[tailgator]

Yes, the context for the "end" of this particular period of "great tribulation" is indeed the Last Days. 3.5 years here goes back to Dan 7, where that period of time is ascribed to the Antichrist.

Daniel, in ch. 12, is having two major events summarized for him--event that will be significant in Daniel's future. The 1st event mentioned involves the 3.5 years of Antichristian terror. The 2nd event mentioned is the 1290 days of Antiochus 4's reign of terror. This had been described earlier in the book, in chs. 8 and 11.

Both events similarly involve periods of time roughly 3.5 years. But they are two separate events, and the angel does not expect that Daniel will understand all of these details. They were given for the generations in which they would be fulfilled. And they have been indeed major events in the history of Israel. The Antichristian prophecy has yet to be fulfilled.

Daniel 11 :21-45 is about the same despicable man who ce to power through flattery and intrigue and who was not in line for royal succession.
The same man who moves his embassy to Jerusalem in Daniel 11:45.

The kings who ruled his kingdom before him are mentioned before him in Daniel 11:7-20.
These are not ancient events as Jason taught.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Daniel 11 has nothing to do with antiochus.
You are putting all your faith in a Hellenistic Jew who interpreted Daniel end times prophecy as being fulfilled thousands of years before end times.

It was Jason of Cyrene who claimed zmtiochus fulfilled Daniels prophecy.

Do you honestly believe The time of the and was in 164 BC?

Daniel 12:4
But you, Daniel, roll up and seal the words of the scroll until the time of the end. Many will go here and there to increase knowledge.”


If Jason was correct and the abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel was fulfilled in 264 BC,then Jesus would be wrong.Do you believe Jason is right and Jesus is wrong?

Mathew 24
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)


According to Jason and all who believe his word,the abomination of desolation was fulfilled in 164 bc.

30 For ships from Cyprus shall come against him; therefore he shall be grieved, and return in rage against the holy covenant, and do damage.

“So he shall return and show regard for those who forsake the holy covenant. 31 And [n]forces shall be mustered by him, and they shall defile the sanctuary fortress; then they shall take away the daily sacrifices, and place there the abomination of desolation. 32 Those who do wickedly against the covenant he shall [o]corrupt with flattery; but the people who know their God shall be strong, and carry out great exploits. 33 And those of the people who understand shall instruct many; yet for many days they shall fall by sword and flame, by captivity and plundering. 34 Now when they fall, they shall be aided with a little help; but many shall join with them by [p]intrigue. 35 And some of those of understanding shall fall, to refine them, purify them, and make them white, until the time of the end; because it is still for the appointed time.

So this is the the greece King from the north who did this event which is documented well not only in christian history, but secular history?

 

[tailgator]

He was not even king of the jews.

He was a puppet of rome.

And he knew it..

but this does not even matter. wqe are talking about events which happen AFTER Jesus rose and ascended to his throne.. Herod was long since gone by this time

No,Herod sought to kill Christ because they said the king of Israel would be born in Bethlehem.

And Herod ruled Israel wether you like it or not.

 

[tailgator]

30 For ships from Cyprus shall come against him; therefore he shall be grieved, and return in rage against the holy covenant, and do damage.

“So he shall return and show regard for those who forsake the holy covenant. 31 And [n]forces shall be mustered by him, and they shall defile the sanctuary fortress; then they shall take away the daily sacrifices, and place there the abomination of desolation. 32 Those who do wickedly against the covenant he shall [o]corrupt with flattery; but the people who know their God shall be strong, and carry out great exploits. 33 And those of the people who understand shall instruct many; yet for many days they shall fall by sword and flame, by captivity and plundering. 34 Now when they fall, they shall be aided with a little help; but many shall join with them by [p]intrigue. 35 And some of those of understanding shall fall, to refine them, purify them, and make them white, until the time of the end; because it is still for the appointed time.

So this is the the greece King from the north who did this event which is documented well not only in christian history, but secular history?

No,this is the Israeli governments best ally giving Israel his armed forces to save Israel.

. 32 Those who do wickedly against the covenant he shall [o]corrupt with flattery; but the people who know their God shall be strong, and carry out great exploits.

He doesn't defeat the Israeli government which does wickedly against the covenant.He is there friend.
And the people who know their God and resist him are christians in Israel.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

I'm not saying this is the fulfillment of Rev 12, but I'm amazed at how close the current events in the Middle East look like Rev 12. Satan is out to destroy the Woman who gave birth to Christ. That Woman may be Israel. Satan is unable to dislodge the Woman from her place in Palestine. The Eagle with 2 wings comes to her aid. Currently, that appears to be the US.

Iran is seeking to send a flood against Israel, its military forces, to remove Israel from her place. But the earth swallows up the flood. In other words, the Iranian aggression is stifled.

This makes Satan extra angry with those who are also the children of the Woman, namely Christians. Satan will, under Antichrist, try to destroy Christianity, which supports the promise of Israel's national salvation. Sounds a lot like today, huh?

Consider another perspective of the flood cast out after the woman. Almost always (unless I’ve misunderstood) flood and wind and drowning in perdition is in the context of a flood of mens doctrines. To me this could be the flood cast out to destroy the woman. What weapon would satan use most to destroy the children of God? We think war with weapon fire. But what is swelling and drowning and harming more than anything …a flood of falsehood and empty doctrine drowning men. Beginning at the start of changing God’s words is this the weapon cast out as a flood to wash (carry away) the woman, to drown her …? how strange the flood is cast from the mouth…like a wave vomit of lies and everything evil and false coming after the woman to swallow her up. Like the verse where they wrestle with words to their own demise. Yes…I think the flood could easily be all the doctrines that drown so that no fruit is brought to perfection. To hinder, to prevent…the most damage is falsehood and lies and strange doctrines, vain imagination meant to destroy which satan wants to do …to steal, kill and destroy…even he steals the words of God to make them his own although to do harm to the woman. Which is worse for satan to set up gun fire to kill a man? Or for satan to take the very thing meant to help man and twist and use it to drown any reconciliation unto God?

How is she nourished in the wilderness? What is her food?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

No,Herod sought to kill Christ because they said the king of Israel would be born in Bethlehem.

And Herod ruled Israel wether you like it or not.

I never said otherwise.

Look, Herod is dead. Satan used him to try to kill Christ just like John said in rev 12.

3 And another sign appeared in heaven: behold, a great, fiery red dragon having seven heads and ten horns, and seven diadems on his heads. 4 His tail drew a third of the stars of heaven and threw them to the earth. And the dragon stood before the woman who was ready to give birth, to devour her Child as soon as it was born.

I am sure he tried many things, not just the one He convinced Herod to do..

but we are not talking about this. we are talking about what happens later. so this will be my last comment on Herod..

 

[Eternally Grateful]

No,this is the Israeli governments best ally giving Israel his armed forces to save Israel.

. 32 Those who do wickedly against the covenant he shall [o]corrupt with flattery; but the people who know their God shall be strong, and carry out great exploits.

He doesn't defeat the Israeli government which does wickedly against the covenant.He is there friend.
And the people who know their God and resist him are christians in Israel.

lol

ok man, Your out there.

The event happened. That is what Prophecy does. it tells you of literal events which will happen hundreds, sometimes thousands of years after God proclaimed they will.

Israel has a right to defend itself. It does nto need things like this as proof.. should israel just let Muslims ravage its people?

come on man..

 

[VictoryinJesus]

lol

ok man, Your out there.

The event happened. That is what Prophecy does. it tells you of literal events which will happen hundreds, sometimes thousands of years after God proclaimed they will.

Israel has a right to defend itself. It does nto need things like this as proof.. should israel just let Muslims ravage its people?

come on man..

It’s frustrating. So what you are saying to me and everyone else is God has to speak to us carnally and as we define “in keeping it literal” …it has to be telling of earthly things. Our one track mind …even the disciples He would ask are you still stuck on literal earthly things? Why do you yet not understand?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

It’s frustrating. So what you are saying to me and everyone else is God has to speak to us carnally and as we define “in keeping it literal” …it has to be telling of earthly things. Our one track mind …even the disciples He would ask are you still stuck on literal earthly things? Why do you yet not understand?

Prophecy

God tells us, This will happen.

He tells us so when these things literally take place. We can point to God and say, Yeah, the god of Heaven told us these things,, so when they happen they point to him. For who else can tell of events which happens centuries later, but the one true God.

When we do not take them literally. We take away from the purpose and meaning of why he told us those things to begin with.

Example.

God said messiah would come 69 weeks of years after the command to restore Jerusalem. (Dan 9) fulfilled literally

God said Jesus would be born of a virgin (is 7: 14) fulfilled literally

God said Jesus would be called out of egypt (hos 11:1) Fulfilled literally

God said Jesus would be born in Bethlehem (Mic 5: 2) fulfilled literally

God said he would teach in parables (Ps 78: 1-2) Fulfilled literally

God said he would begin his ministry in Galilee (Is 9: 1-2) fulfilled literally

God said the blind would see, the deaf will hear and the lame will walk (Is 35: 5-6) Fulfilled literally

God said he would be preceded by a forrunner (Is 40: 3-4) fulfilled literally

God said he would be despised and rejected (Is %3: 3) Literally fulfilled

God said he would be betrayed for 30 Peices of silver (Zech 11: 12- 13) Fulfilled literally)

there are so many more..

Even other things.

God said that babylon would take Jerusalem it was literally fulfilled

God said media and persia would defeat babylon, literally fulfilled

God said Greece would defeat media-persia - Literally fulfilled

God said Rome will destroy Greece, literally fulfilled.

Why would I want to take prophecy, and make it mean anything other that what is spoken,

People reject a literal interpretation only because it does nto fit their belief system.

they do it to their own unbelief

when people tell you something God said will not happen the way God said it. Run from them.. because they do not understand God.

 

[tailgator]

I never said otherwise.

Look, Herod is dead. Satan used him to try to kill Christ just like John said in rev 12.

3 And another sign appeared in heaven: behold, a great, fiery red dragon having seven heads and ten horns, and seven diadems on his heads. 4 His tail drew a third of the stars of heaven and threw them to the earth. And the dragon stood before the woman who was ready to give birth, to devour her Child as soon as it was born.

I am sure he tried many things, not just the one He convinced Herod to do..

but we are not talking about this. we are talking about what happens later. so this will be my last comment on Herod..

It is the man who likes he is king of Israel,king of the Jews who will persecute the woman's seed after she flees away from the beast.
He's no more of a gentile than Herod was.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

It is the man who likes he is king of Israel,king of the Jews who will persecute the woman's seed after she flees away from the beast.
He's no more of a gentile than Herod was.

No it is not

I showed you the posts. He comes from ROME,

But it is evident you will only believe what you want.

How can Israel persecute Israel.. You make no sense

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Prophecy

God tells us, This will happen.

He tells us so when these things literally take place. We can point to God and say, Yeah, the god of Heaven told us these things,, so when they happen they point to him. For who else can tell of events which happens centuries later, but the one true God.

When we do not take them literally. We take away from the purpose and meaning of why he told us those things to begin with.

Example.

God said messiah would come 69 weeks of years after the command to restore Jerusalem. (Dan 9) fulfilled literally

God said Jesus would be born of a virgin (is 7: 14) fulfilled literally

God said Jesus would be called out of egypt (hos 11:1) Fulfilled literally

God said Jesus would be born in Bethlehem (Mic 5: 2) fulfilled literally

God said he would teach in parables (Ps 78: 1-2) Fulfilled literally

God said he would begin his ministry in Galilee (Is 9: 1-2) fulfilled literally

God said the blind would see, the deaf will hear and the lame will walk (Is 35: 5-6) Fulfilled literally

God said he would be preceded by a forrunner (Is 40: 3-4) fulfilled literally

God said he would be despised and rejected (Is %3: 3) Literally fulfilled

God said he would be betrayed for 30 Peices of silver (Zech 11: 12- 13) Fulfilled literally)

there are so many more..

Even other things.

God said that babylon would take Jerusalem it was literally fulfilled

God said media and persia would defeat babylon, literally fulfilled

God said Greece would defeat media-persia - Literally fulfilled

God said Rome will destroy Greece, literally fulfilled.

Why would I want to take prophecy, and make it mean anything other that what is spoken,

People reject a literal interpretation only because it does nto fit their belief system.

Because not all prophecy is literal, obviously. Is anyone saying none of it is? I don't think so.

Revelation 17:3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns. 4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:

So, using your literal method of interpreting Bible prophecy, which you indicate has no exceptions, we should be on the lookout for a woman dressed in purple and scarlet adorned with gold and precious stones and pearls while holding a golden cup in her hand literally "full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication" while she is literally sitting on a scarlet colored beast with seven literal heads and ten literal horns who is literally "full of names of blasphemy". Once we see that then we'll know Christ's return is near for sure.

 

[tailgator]

No it is not

I showed you the posts. He comes from ROME,

But it is evident you will only believe what you want.

How can Israel persecute Israel.. You make no sense

You don't know how the Jews can persecuted christians in Israel?

Really?

Mathew 23:37
Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were not willing.


Notice Jesus doesn't say Rome,Rome ,thou that in kill the prophets.Jerusalem is the capital city of the one who kills the christians in Israel.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

You don't know how the Jews can persecuted christians in Israel?

Really?

Mathew 23:37
Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were not willing.


Notice Jesus doesn't say Rome,Rome ,thou that in kill the prophets.Jerusalem is the capital city of the one who kills the christians in Israel.

of course not

that is not talking about the final world power of the beast that rides it.

But you will make any excuse I now see..

 

[tailgator]

of course not

that is not talking about the final world power of the beast that rides it.

But you will make any excuse I now see..

The beast is not a world power.
The peoples from.the nations follow after the beast.They go to him.He doesn't come to them.


Shoot,he can't even go into the wilderness where the woman flees.That is out of his realm.