When are the dead and living in Christ caught up to the Lord?

[Truth7t7]

Again, the second coming occurs at the 6th seal when the Lord comes for the second harvest. He will remain in the clouds.


The hour of temptation occurs during the great tribulation which is over at the 6th seal.


It's obvious that you do not understand what this is talking about. This is not about the Church; The Church is already in heaven as seen in Rev 5. This is talking about the rapture that occurs at the 6th seal when the Lord comes for the harvest and to punish the world in the Day of the Lord..........the 7th seal.

At the 6th seal, MANY that sleep in the dust of the earth shall be raised.

I Strongly Disagree

Jesus returns immediately after the tribulation in fire and final judgement (The End)

 

[honeycomb]

The AC is "revealed" pretrib.

Scripture please. Prove it.

 

[honeycomb]

They are jews.
Ethnic jews.

Prove what you say with scripture. Where the heck are you getting this stuff from?

 

[The Light]

No, it hinges on your active imagination that contradicts the written word of God.

If you can provide any examples where the Word of God disagrees with what I believe...............I will change what I believe

I do my own studies and don't base them on what others believe, so this is just yet another lie that you have told.

About the only lying I can see is you lying to yourself.

Zero ways is countless? LOL. You are completely delusional. I mean completely. 100% delusional. Your doctrine is a big joke.

Please provide any of your beliefs regarding end times that agree with the Word of God. You haven't even figured out He is coming when you think not.

It's Hebrew, not Greek. You have no idea whatsoever of what you're talking about. I did not say that. That is yet another lie from you. You are a liar.

Ah. The accuser of the brethren.............

I simply said it is sometimes translated as "great" and sometimes as "many". From what I saw in looking up the verses where the word was translated, a majority of them translated it as "great". I shouldn't have even mentioned that because you think that's part of the point I was making, which it wasn't. The point I was making is that when the word is translated as "many", it doesn't mean "many, but not all" and I showed examples of that which you just ignore.

None of your examples contained a qualifier with MANY. "Many of them" contains a qualifier.

Knew what was incorrect? It is a fact that the Hebrew word rab is sometimes translated as "great" and sometimes as "many" in the Old Testament. Look it up for yourself. I even showed you that. Did you need me to show you that again? But, again, that isn't even the point at all. The point is that when it is translated as "many", it doesn't mean many, but not all.

The point is you misrepresented that great was the proper translation, instead of many.

Daniel 12:1-2 is one of the many proofs that what you are saying does not agree with the Word of God.

 

[honeycomb]

The second coming occurs the 6th seal before the Day of the Lord. You are confusing the coming of the Lord at the end of wrath with the coming of the Lord before wrath.

Prove it with scripture.

The Day of the Lord is the 7th trump.

 

[The Light]

I Strongly Disagree

Jesus returns immediately after the tribulation in fire and final judgement (The End)

Jesus does return immediately after the tribulation at the 6th seal. The judgement is the Day of the Lord, the 7th seal, the one-year day of wrath.

 

[The Light]

Prove it with scripture.

The Day of the Lord is the 7th trump.

Proving it with scripture is not a problem. The Day of the Lord is the day of His vengeance. The Day of the Lord is one year. The Day of the Lord is the 7th seal, the day of wrath.

Here is the 6th seal.

Revelation 6
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

Here is the 6th seal in Isaiah 34. Note the day of His vengeance is one year.

Isaiah 34
4 And all the host of heaven shall be dissolved, and the heavens shall be rolled together as a scroll: and all their host shall fall down, as the leaf falleth off from the vine, and as a falling fig from the fig tree.

5 For my sword shall be bathed in heaven: behold, it shall come down upon Idumea, and upon the people of my curse, to judgment.

6 The sword of the Lord is filled with blood, it is made fat with fatness, and with the blood of lambs and goats, with the fat of the kidneys of rams: for the Lord hath a sacrifice in Bozrah, and a great slaughter in the land of Idumea.

7 And the unicorns shall come down with them, and the bullocks with the bulls; and their land shall be soaked with blood, and their dust made fat with fatness.

8 For it is the day of the Lord's vengeance, and the year of recompences for the controversy of Zion.

 

[honeycomb]

The second coming occurs the 6th seal before the Day of the Lord. You are confusing the coming of the Lord at the end of wrath with the coming of the Lord before wrath.

Here is the 7th seal:
When He opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven for about half an hour. And I saw the seven angels who stand before God, and to them were given seven trumpets. Then another angel, having a golden censer, came and stood at the altar. He was given much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all the saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne. And the smoke of the incense, with the prayers of the saints, ascended before God from the angel's hand. Then the angel took the censer, filled it with fire from the altar, and threw it to the earth. And there were noises, thunderings, lightnings, and an earthquake. So the seven angels who had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound.

- Revelation 8:1-6

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

If you can provide any examples where the Word of God disagrees with what I believe...............I will change what I believe

LOL!!! That is a lie. It's already been done many times and you still believe everything the same.

About the only lying I can see is you lying to yourself.

You continually say things about me that aren't true even after being corrected. What else can I call that but lying?

Please provide any of your beliefs regarding end times that agree with the Word of God. You haven't even figured out He is coming when you think not.

When did I say He is not coming when you think not? Another lie from you. You repeatedly say things about me that aren't true. Over and over again. I have to conclude it's on purpose when you do it repeatedly like this.

None of your examples contained a qualifier with MANY. "Many of them" contains a qualifier.

LOL. Give me a break. You will do anything to avoid the points I make. You are saying the word "many" itself means many, but not all. I gave examples showing otherwise and then you come up with this nonsense. I can't take you seriously because you are so incredibly dishonest.

You understand that the Bible wasn't written in English, right? We're talking about the Hebrew word rab here. In the KJV translation of the verse that word is translated as just "many". Then the Hebrew word "yāšēn" is translated as "of them that sleep". In no way, shape or form is it saying many, but not all of them that sleep in the dust will awake. It's referring to all of them who sleep in the dust, of which there are many. Here is how the verse is translated in the NIV:

Daniel 12:2 Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt.

Is this referring to "multitudes", but not all who sleep in the dust of the earth? No. It's referring to all who sleep in the dust of the earth, whose number are "multitudes". There is no reason whatsoever to not relate Daniel 12:2 directly to this passage as there will NOT be two different times when both saved and lost dead people are resurrected.

John 5:28 “Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice 29 and come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned.

The idea of there being two different times when both saved and lost dead people are resurrected in the future is not taught at all anywhere in scripture. It's a ridiculous idea that should be endlessly mocked.

The point is you misrepresented that great was the proper translation, instead of many.

I did not say that! That is an absolute lie! All I said was that the Hebrew word rab was translated as "great" most of the time that I saw. It's translated in the Old Testament hundreds of times. But, it's translated as "much" or "many" a number of times as well. I shouldn't have even pointed that out since it didn't even relate to my point, which only related to when it is translated as "many".

So, forget about how it is translated otherwise, and let's just focus on when it is translated as "many".

Daniel 12:1-2 is one of the many proofs that what you are saying does not agree with the Word of God.

You have done NOTHING to prove that my interpretation of Daniel 12:1-2 isn't correct. All you've done is show your dishonesty and bias over and over again.

 

[honeycomb]

I agree.

…but where are you getting the one year from?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Prove what you say with scripture. Where the heck are you getting this stuff from?

Don't bother asking him to do that. He (rebuilder 454) never backs up anything he says with scripture.

 

[honeycomb]

Don't bother asking him to do that. He (rebuilder 454) never backs up anything he says with scripture.

Ah.

 

[honeycomb]

Proving it with scripture is not a problem. The Day of the Lord is the day of His vengeance. The Day of the Lord is one year. The Day of the Lord is the 7th seal, the day of wrath.

Here is the 6th seal.

Revelation 6
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

Here is the 6th seal in Isaiah 34. Note the day of His vengeance is one year.

Isaiah 34
4 And all the host of heaven shall be dissolved, and the heavens shall be rolled together as a scroll: and all their host shall fall down, as the leaf falleth off from the vine, and as a falling fig from the fig tree.

5 For my sword shall be bathed in heaven: behold, it shall come down upon Idumea, and upon the people of my curse, to judgment.

6 The sword of the Lord is filled with blood, it is made fat with fatness, and with the blood of lambs and goats, with the fat of the kidneys of rams: for the Lord hath a sacrifice in Bozrah, and a great slaughter in the land of Idumea.

7 And the unicorns shall come down with them, and the bullocks with the bulls; and their land shall be soaked with blood, and their dust made fat with fatness.

8 For it is the day of the Lord's vengeance, and the year of recompences for the controversy of Zion.

I just had a thought. You understand the seals to be in chronological order and I don’t. ???

 

[The Light]

…but where are you getting the one year from?

Isaiah 34
8 For it is the day of the Lord's vengeance, and the year of recompences for the controversy of Zion.

 

[The Light]

I just had a thought. You understand the seals to be in chronological order and I don’t. ???

Yes the seals are opened in order and are chronological.

The 1st 4 seals are the beginning of sorrows in Matthew 24. The 5th seal is the great tribulation of Matthew 24 and the 6th seal is the coming of Jesus in Matthew 24 for the second harvest. The 7th seal is the 1-year wrath of God.

 

[honeycomb]

Isaiah 34
8 For it is the day of the Lord's vengeance, and the year of recompences for the controversy of Zion.

Okay, thanks.

 

[honeycomb]

Yes the seals are opened in order and are chronological.

The 1st 4 seals are the beginning of sorrows in Matthew 24. The 5th seal is the great tribulation of Matthew 24 and the 6th seal is the coming of Jesus in Matthew 24 for the second harvest. The 7th seal is the 1-year wrath of God.

…but this can’t possibly be right. Here’s why—Satan’s number is 666, right?

 

[Truth7t7]

The Day of the Lord then begins which is one year long.

If it was the word "Year" it would have been written "Year", lets make it up as we go along, smiles

 

[The Light]

…but this can’t possibly be right. Here’s why—Satan’s number is 666, right?

No. That is incorrect.

 

[honeycomb]

No. That is incorrect.

Then I saw another beast coming up out of the earth, and he had two horns like a lamb and spoke like a dragon. And he exercises all the authority of the first beast in his presence, and causes the earth and those who dwell in it to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed. He performs great signs, so that he even makes fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men. And he deceives those who dwell on the earth by those signs which he was granted to do in the sight of the beast, telling those who dwell on the earth to make an image to the beast who was wounded by the sword and lived. He was granted power to give breath to the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak and cause as many as would not worship the image of the beast to be killed. He causes all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hand or on their foreheads, and that no one may buy or sell except one who has the mark or the name of the beast, or the number of his name. Here is wisdom. Let him who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man: His number is 666.

- Revelation 13:11-18