BarneyFife
Well-Known Member
Unless they simply have yet to figure out that they're actually electists who have just been ignorantly hanging out with the spiritual riff-raff.
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Open Debate Challenge on My Defending the KJV as the Perfect Word for Today in English
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Unless they simply have yet to figure out that they're actually electists who have just been ignorantly hanging out with the spiritual riff-raff.
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St. SteVen
Well-Known Member
LOL - "non-electness."
Let's vote.
So, did some simply not get voted into the kingdom? A Thumbs-Down from God?
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St. SteVen
Well-Known Member
Well... non-elects were predestined to be spiritual riff-raff. The chosen majority. (what's wrong with this picture?) A fail in the planning stage.
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BarneyFife
Well-Known Member
Didn't get enough signatures to get on the ballot in some heavenly states, I guess. Them's the breaks for an independent candidate, you know.
We're gonna get in trouble for derailing this thread. I guess I should stop and take a popcorn break or maybe have some cactus candy - lol.
:)
BarneyFife
Well-Known Member
@St. SteVen, My auto-correct won't let me type derailing - lol (it did that time, but it usually changes it to detailing—like de-tailing - lolol 
).
:)
). :)
I believe the two Alexandrian ships that Paul traveled on is prophetic of Vaticanus and Sinaiticus. Vaticanus and Sinaiticus are of the Alexandrian text-type. While this is not always the indication that a manuscript may come from Alexandria, Egypt, I believe this is the case for Vaticanus and Sinaiticus (Especially seeing these manuscripts are in good condition because Egypt has a more favorable climate to preserve manuscripts). In fact, well respected Modern scholars say that they both come from Alexandria, Egypt.
Anyways, when Paul was traveling by sea: One Alexandrian ship was headed to Rome, and another second Alexandrian ship headed out from Rome. Vaticanus and Sinaiticus teach Catholic ideas (Rome) because that is what we see in the Revised Version and other subsequent Modern Bibles. Just type in Keith Piper, NIV and look to page 21 of that PDF (To check out how Catholic ideas are promoted in the NIV).
Side Note:
Granted, this would not be my sole argument against these manuscripts. The false doctrines and the corrections on these manuscripts and their origins is the major reason why I reject them. The prophetic mention of these two manuscripts is merely icing on the cake.
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
Like I said I would find it interesting to have a detailed run down of the translation process for the NASB by the Lockman Foundation. But you are only going to get that from the Lockman Foundation or one or more of the board members. What you got for quotes from the internet are accurate examples of hearsay. Not from board members or referencing information from the Lockman foundation. Looking in from the outside and voicing their opinions. In stead of that I will limit what I present to those that know the process used in the translation. And I have included an interview with Pike Lambeth Executive VP of The Lockman Foundation.
What you are doing is a distraction tactic, you are throwing rocks at modern translation sources while standing in a glass house. It is a well know fact that the sources used for the KJV were inaccurate and they did not have the older manuscripts to reference that show the additions in later manuscripts, or even added by those that worked on the KJV, it is just that simple. I have already posted a long list of errors in the KJV in posts 120, 121, and 125.
New American Standard Bible (NASB)
Accuracy and Readability
The Lockman Foundation
Since its completion in 1971, the New American Standard Bible has been widely embraced as a literal and accurate English translation because it consistently uses the formal equivalence translation philosophy. This method translates word-for-word from the original languages as much as possible. At the same time, it recognizes the need for the translation to be readable.Millions of people have trusted the NASB for connecting with God while reading, learning, and applying the Bible’s teaching and wisdom to the demands of daily life. The accuracy of the NASB makes it a trusted choice of many students, scholars, pastors, and missionaries as they study and teach the Word of God. Read the NASB for yourself and discover the original meaning of the biblical texts.
The NASB was updated in 1977, 1995, and most recently in 2020, according to the best scholarship available at the time. The purposes of the updates have been to increase accuracy, clarity, and readability. Every aspect of vocabulary, grammar, sentence structure, and meaning were carefully reviewed during each update. The result is an accurate translation that clearly communicates the Word of God in contemporary English.
Accuracy will always and forever be the unmovable cornerstone of our translation philosophy. Changes are never made lightly. With this in mind, to best achieve our goals, updates must consistently maintain the highest standards of formal equivalence translation that is familiar and understandable in English each time the work is done.
The NASB 1995, NASB 2020, and LSB are all accurate, clear, and readable translations that complement each other by providing a well-rounded Bible translation family. These translations offer a spectrum of biblical language style for readers to choose from according to their personal preferences. Each can be read with equal confidence because they follow the formal equivalence translation approach that is accurate and precise.
The NASB has been produced with the conviction that the words of Scripture, as originally penned in the Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek, are inspired by God. Therefore, every word must be accurate and precise so that they are read with confidence. Since these words are the living and eternal Word of God, the Holy Scriptures must speak clearly with fresh power to each generation, to give wisdom that leads to salvation so that all people may serve Christ for the glory of God.We firmly believe the NASB provides an accurate and precise English translation with which to conduct a personal journey through the Word of God.
Continued.....
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
History of the New American Standard Bible
The Lockman Foundation
In 1604 a revision of the Bishops’ Bible of 1568 was commissioned. This revision, first printed in 1611, came to be known as the King James Version and is considered a landmark in the history of English Bible translation. More than two centuries later, in Britain, the KJV itself became the basis for the English Revised Version, completed in 1885, with its American counterpart, the American Standard Version, being published in 1901. The ASV, a product of both British and American scholarship, has been highly regarded for its scholarship and accuracy.
Recognizing the values of the American Standard Version, The Lockman Foundation launched a new translation project in 1959. It sought to preserve the lasting values of the ASV while incorporating recent discoveries of Hebrew and Greek textual sources, all with more current English. This new and original translation project created the NASB.
The Lockman Foundation of La Habra, California, employed a dedicated team of scholars who worked for more than ten years to produce the New American Standard Bible. First published in its complete form in 1971, the NASB came to be known as a trusted Bible for reading and study because it provides a precise translation of the original Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek in familiar English.
Underlying the New American Standard Bible is the evangelical commitment of the translators, all of whom believe that the original writing of the Bible is the inspired and inerrant Word of God.
1977 NASB Translators
Dr. Peter Ahn
Dr. Warren Allen
Dr. Gleason Archer
Dr. Herman Austel
Dr. Kenneth Lee Barker
Dr. George Blankenbaker
Dr. Fred Bush
Dr. Frank G. Carver
Dr. David L. Cooper
Dr. Richard W. Cramer
Dr. Edward R. Dalglish
Dr. Charles Lee Feinberg
Dr. Harvey Finley
Dr. Paul Gray
Dr. Edward F. Harrison
Dr. John Hartley
Dr. F. B Huey, Jr.
Dr. Charles Isbell
Dr. David W. Kerr
Dr. William L. Lane
Dr. Timothy Lin
Dr. Oscar Lowry
Dr. Elmer Martens
Dr. Henry R. Moeller
Dr. Reuben A. Olson
Dr. J. Barton Payne
Dr. Walter Penner
Dr. John Rea
Dr. W.L. Reed
Dr. Robert Saucy
Dr. Robert N. Schaper
Dr. Moisés Silva
Dr. Ralph L. Smith
Dr. Merrill C. Tenney
Dr. Robert L. Thomas
Dr. George Townsend
Dr. Bruce Waltke
Dr. Lowell C. Wendt
Dr. William C. Williams
Dr. Herbert M. Wolf
Dr. Kenneth Wuest
Dr. Fred Young
More Information about NASB 2020 - Lockman Foundation
Interview with Pike Lambeth Executive VP of The Lockman Foundation.
The NASB 2020 Bible Translation: An Interview with Pike Lambeth - Bible Gateway Blog
No mention of the Vaticanus or Sinaiticus codices or Nestle and Aland. If your intent is to produce an accurate translation of the scripture you are going to take in the oldest manuscripts, as much as possible. I would think that they also looked at the Vaticanus or Sinaiticus codices or Nestle and Aland. But copy and paste something ….no
The Lockman Foundation
In 1604 a revision of the Bishops’ Bible of 1568 was commissioned. This revision, first printed in 1611, came to be known as the King James Version and is considered a landmark in the history of English Bible translation. More than two centuries later, in Britain, the KJV itself became the basis for the English Revised Version, completed in 1885, with its American counterpart, the American Standard Version, being published in 1901. The ASV, a product of both British and American scholarship, has been highly regarded for its scholarship and accuracy.
Recognizing the values of the American Standard Version, The Lockman Foundation launched a new translation project in 1959. It sought to preserve the lasting values of the ASV while incorporating recent discoveries of Hebrew and Greek textual sources, all with more current English. This new and original translation project created the NASB.
The Lockman Foundation of La Habra, California, employed a dedicated team of scholars who worked for more than ten years to produce the New American Standard Bible. First published in its complete form in 1971, the NASB came to be known as a trusted Bible for reading and study because it provides a precise translation of the original Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek in familiar English.
Underlying the New American Standard Bible is the evangelical commitment of the translators, all of whom believe that the original writing of the Bible is the inspired and inerrant Word of God.
1977 NASB Translators
Dr. Peter Ahn
Dr. Warren Allen
Dr. Gleason Archer
Dr. Herman Austel
Dr. Kenneth Lee Barker
Dr. George Blankenbaker
Dr. Fred Bush
Dr. Frank G. Carver
Dr. David L. Cooper
Dr. Richard W. Cramer
Dr. Edward R. Dalglish
Dr. Charles Lee Feinberg
Dr. Harvey Finley
Dr. Paul Gray
Dr. Edward F. Harrison
Dr. John Hartley
Dr. F. B Huey, Jr.
Dr. Charles Isbell
Dr. David W. Kerr
Dr. William L. Lane
Dr. Timothy Lin
Dr. Oscar Lowry
Dr. Elmer Martens
Dr. Henry R. Moeller
Dr. Reuben A. Olson
Dr. J. Barton Payne
Dr. Walter Penner
Dr. John Rea
Dr. W.L. Reed
Dr. Robert Saucy
Dr. Robert N. Schaper
Dr. Moisés Silva
Dr. Ralph L. Smith
Dr. Merrill C. Tenney
Dr. Robert L. Thomas
Dr. George Townsend
Dr. Bruce Waltke
Dr. Lowell C. Wendt
Dr. William C. Williams
Dr. Herbert M. Wolf
Dr. Kenneth Wuest
Dr. Fred Young
More Information about NASB 2020 - Lockman Foundation
Interview with Pike Lambeth Executive VP of The Lockman Foundation.
The NASB 2020 Bible Translation: An Interview with Pike Lambeth - Bible Gateway Blog
No mention of the Vaticanus or Sinaiticus codices or Nestle and Aland. If your intent is to produce an accurate translation of the scripture you are going to take in the oldest manuscripts, as much as possible. I would think that they also looked at the Vaticanus or Sinaiticus codices or Nestle and Aland. But copy and paste something ….no
So why would all the other Modern scholars say that the Nestle and Aland is based primarily on the Vaticanus and Sinaiticus?
I gave you quotes and you are not even believing those quotes now?
This website that praises the NASB as the best goes into the origin of the NASB and talks about how the supposed older and better manuscripts known as the Vaticanus and Sinaiticus called for changes.
The Birth of the NASB, Translation Soup, and The Only English Translation You’ll Ever Need
These new texts and manuscripts, while not altering the message of the text, can give us better insight into particular historical and grammatical issues.
www.1517.org
It just seems like even I said rain was wet, you would find a way to fight against that idea.
Of course the NASB creators is going to cook up conspiracy theories against the KJV because it is competition. They wouldn’t make any money if they said the KJV was great and awesome. You have to think of people’s motives in this.
Rockerduck
Well-Known Member
I've read this website and another that say, that the dead sea scrolls were used? Both also agree that "new" manuscripts were the Vaticanus and Sinaticus. Just two. I can hardly believe that modern bibles will update based on these two only. Statical Analysis that I studied in college wouldn't even entertain this for a discissions. You are a well of knowledge my friend.So why would all the other Modern scholars say that the Nestle and Aland is based primarily on the Vaticanus and Sinaiticus?
I gave you quotes and you are not even believing those quotes now?
This website that praises the NASB as the best goes into the origin of the NASB and talks about how the supposed older and better manuscripts known as the Vaticanus and Sinaiticus called for changes.
The Birth of the NASB, Translation Soup, and The Only English Translation You’ll Ever Need
These new texts and manuscripts, while not altering the message of the text, can give us better insight into particular historical and grammatical issues.www.1517.org
It just seems like even I said rain was wet, you would find a way to fight against that idea.
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
I did not say that Nestle and Aland did or did not consider the Vaticanus and Sinaiticus?
Quit trying to put words in my mouth.
I disagree with your attempt to pigeon hole the work of those translating the scriptures. It does not matter if it the NASB or NIV or ESV. The word "based" is not the right word for this type of research, this work is not based on a couple things. There is no reason to suspect or proof of them focusing on one or two things. If their work was a reproduction of anything they would have been called on it a long time ago.
Considering the amount of time and money and people involved, it would indicate they looked at everything and gave it the weight it disserved. If not it would not have taken so long.
Dr. Frank Logsdon, the chairman of the New American Standard translation committee, became an avid advocate of the King James Bible. He renounced his own translation methods. He renounced his own Bible that he was the chairman of and he became an avid advocate of the King James Bible. He said the following in his public statement of disassociation from the New American Standard:
“I must under God renounce every attachment to the New American Standard Version. I'm afraid I'm in trouble with the Lord. We laid the groundwork; I wrote the format; I helped interview some of the translators; I sat with the translators; I wrote the preface... I'm in trouble; I can't refute these arguments; its wrong, terribly wrong... The deletions are absolutely frightening… there are so many ... Are we so naive that we do not suspect Satanic deception?
Upon investigation, I wrote my dear friend, Mr. Lockman, [Mr. Lockman owned the publishing company that published the NASV] explaining that I was forced to renounce all attachment to the NASV.”
To learn more about Mr. Lockman and the NASB (NASV), see this video here:
I am saying that while they did use other manuscripts in the Nestle and Aland 28 (NA28), they primarily rely heavily upon the Vaticanus and Sinaiticus for the NA28. The NA28 is used for Modern Translations such as the NIV, ESV, CSB, NASB, etcetera. I gave you the quotes by Modern scholars themselves. You either believe they are stupid and you’re the real guru, or you are wrong.
I mean, I get it, you want to distance yourself from any talking points on the truth because you are willing to do whatever it takes to not make your position look weak. But there are plenty of Modern Textual Critics who are aware of the basic fact that you are denying or questioning. You are the odd ball out in left field here denying what the experts are even saying.
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Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
You live in the world of conspiracy theories. The inaccuracies and inadequacies of the KJV are a matter of facts. I listed the errors of the KJV and people can look them up for themselves.
And to keep things in perspective again….
1. I like the KJV Bible a lot. Just for different reasons than you do. And I bet that I have a lot more of them than you do. I have a 1877 A.J. Holman & Company Illustrated family Bible sitting on my coffee table in the living room. It is beautiful, everybody loves it. And you can still find them on the internet….$250 to $400 dollars depending on the condition.
2. The KJV is part of Christian history....The Protestant reform period and this was the Bible people carried and issued to the military. And the story of the Geneva Bible vs the KJV is interesting.
3. I like the KJV for reading out loud in public or ceremonies.
4. There are certain 17th century period views that show up in the KJV that are note worthy.
5. But it is not the Bible to give to new Christians because if they are not use to the language it is hard to read and harder to understand.
6. And the KJV Bible is not good for in depth scriptural study or teaching out of.
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Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
Dr. Frank Logsdon, the chairman of the New American Standard translation committee, became an avid advocate of the King James Bible. He renounced his own translation methods. He renounced his own Bible that he was the chairman of and he became an avid advocate of the King James Bible. He said the following in his public statement of disassociation from the New American Standard:
“I must under God renounce every attachment to the New American Standard Version. I'm afraid I'm in trouble with the Lord. We laid the groundwork; I wrote the format; I helped interview some of the translators; I sat with the translators; I wrote the preface... I'm in trouble; I can't refute these arguments; its wrong, terribly wrong... The deletions are absolutely frightening… there are so many ... Are we so naive that we do not suspect Satanic deception?Upon investigation, I wrote my dear friend, Mr. Lockman, [Mr. Lockman owned the publishing company that published the NASV] explaining that I was forced to renounce all attachment to the NASV.”
To learn more about Mr. Lockman and the NASB (NASV), see this video here:
Again you live in conspiracy theories. Dr. frank logsdon made money scamming people. He was never involved with the translating process and never on the board….I listed those who were on the board….His involvement with them was not much more than taking out the trash. People can look this up.
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
LOL I guess you do not know that people can see right through you. What you say is not only not true….it does not even make sense. To you conspiracy theories are truth and reality, that is called an alternate reality. I am sure that most reading our conversations have picked up on that.
And again you are trying pigeon hole all these people work to the Nestle and Aland 28 (NA28) like they came in and copied all this over and hit print and went home. When the actual truth is that it took a lot of people and time and money and research to produce these translations. They looked at everything they could and had no favorites….either was fact or not.
Christian Soldier
Well-Known Member
That's not true, they are actually blinded by their own wickedness and their hatred of God and their love of sin. They are totally depraved and every thought is evil continually. That's why they reject the gospel, it has nothing to do with God. He doesn't even know them, let alone have anything to do with their sin nature.
Christian Soldier
Well-Known Member
Nobody figures anything out, unless God reveals the truth to them. If He doesn't they remain blind forever. Let's not forget the fact that man is fallen and dead in trespasses and sin. What can a dead men do????, exactly thank you.
If God elected to save that that person who is currently ignorant and hanging out with the riff-raff, He will regenerate him and convert him at a time God chooses. Nobody has any say in when God opens their eyes. Some have their eyes open on their death bed and some when they are little children.
You are being really nasty suggesting that someone is a "cave living Arminian" by using a fancy word on your part.
I wonder if you should be reported for this particular nastiness on your part.
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