The actual order of my recommendations: First, Jesus. Then later, a local pastor.
God is probably more than three?
- Thread starter Matthias
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The actual order of my recommendations: First, Jesus. Then later, a local pastor.
Alright - we are finally making some progress - but only if you are actually going to start seeking Jesus Christ as the King of Kings and Lord or Lords - so that you personally seek Him and listen to Him via His Holy Spirit!
Then you will come to understand that God being One God has to do with all being under Him, so that He (by doing and saying only what His Father tells Him) will put all things under God. Yet some are going to give it lip service, or did you not read:
Mat 7:22, 23 “Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’
“And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.’
so take head you don't just give hearing Him lip service because:
Mat 7:24 “Therefore everyone who hears these words of Mine and acts on them, may be compared to a wise man who built his house on the rock.
and
Mat 7:26 Everyone who hears these words of Mine and does not act on them, will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand.
Is 29: 12,13 Then the book will be given to the one who is illiterate, saying, “Please read this.” And he will say, “I [fn]cannot read.”
Then the Lord said,
“Because this people draw near with their words
And honor Me with their lip service,
But they remove their hearts far from Me,
And their reverence for Me consists of tradition learned by rote,
You giving lip service to listening to Him will not give you the understanding that His prayer to His Father is:
Jn 17:11 “I am no longer in the world; and yet they themselves are in the world, and I come to You. Holy Father, keep them in Your name, the name which You have given Me, that they may be one even as We are.
So is Jesus Christ, the Son of God and the One whose name is called "The Word of God", God?
Jn 1:1,2 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God.
And He is trying to bring us all together as one under God, by putting His Holy Spirit in us, so that we might do and say what He says, just like He does and says only what the Father says. We of course are not the perfect One; He is. But Paul said to press on, did he not?
Phil 3:12 Not that I have already obtained it or have already become perfect, but I press on [fn]so that I may lay hold of that [fn]for which also I was laid hold of by Christ Jesus.
So press into Jesus Christ so that you might know Him personally!
He once told me:
IT'S NOT EASY LISTENING TO A ROCK. YOU HAVE TO LISTEN VERY CLOSE!
and another time:
TWO MEN WERE WALKING DOWN THE ROAD, ONE TRIPED OVER SOMETHING HE DIDN’T SEE, THE OTHER DIDN’T BECAUSE HE WAS PAYING ATTENTION.
The reason why I said it, for it has a bearing upon you. At one time you were a trinitarian.
And maybe you are still one.
The same thing I am always doing...obeying the Holy Ghost.
Something you have yet to accomplish.
Trinitarian?
People will, rightfully so, point out that 'Trinity" is not a thing specifically discusses in the Bible. There is a reason for that, because God being three, is not what God is about!! God is about us being One with Him! And that is discussed specifically discussed in the Bible! How is that missed by people who claim to study the Bible?
And another thing missed by people who claim to study the Bible, is that it is written "The Lord Your God is One"! They don't understand what that actually reffers to, and that misunderstanding is a result of them not spending time reasoning with the Lord our God! So they don't even understand, though it is plainly written in the Scriptures, that Jesus Christ is the Lord!! And that He is God, even "Mighty God"!!
Here is what they miss - that His Father loved His only begotten Son soooooooo much, that He gave Him (Jesus Christ) all things - and in doing so His Father put Him in charge of "all things"! Now Jesus for His part does and says only what His Father tells Him, and so when you hear from Him you are in fact getting the words of God, because they are the words His Father gave Him for you. So hearing from Jesus Christ, our Lord and our Mighty God, is hearing from One God. If you don't send some time reasoning and talking back and forth with Him, so that you "Hear, O Israel", like commanded by God through Moses and others, included His Father, to do!
So you fail to understand that His Father was not about making God three beings, but about putting His Son in charge!
But let me back that up with Scriptures that got missed, and miss understood!
Ps 2:6,7,“But as for Me, I have installed My King
Upon Zion, My holy mountain.”
“I will surely tell of the decree of the LORD:
He said to Me, ‘You are My Son,
Today I have begotten You.
Now concerning the above verse, you should already know that Jesus Christ was the first born of all creation, and that all things (with of course the exception of Himself) was created through Him - and that according to the verses above, this decree was made on the day He (Jesus Christ) was begotten, and you should know that moment is recorded with the words "Let there be light" It was that day that He (Jesus Christ was made King, and the decree of Him (Jesus Christ) was both the Son and the Lord!!!
Yet still, even those calling themselves "Theologians" are still thinking "The Lord our God is One God" refers to the Father, Son, and Spirit, as opposed to referring to the declaration that Jesus Christ was King, the Lord, and the Son!!
Even though they missed it right then, you would have thought they would have at least figured it out with other verses being read! Verses like:
Is 9:6 For a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us;
And the government will rest on His shoulders;
And His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.
Now they should understand that what happens in the spiritual tend to manifest in the physical. Or did they not even read that God made the heavens and the earth? So the heavens first, then the earth. The spiritual, then the physical. The Kingdom of God, then the Kingdom of earth. Yet the heavens are always above the earth! God is spirit - we have read that right - and God is above all things - and incase you missed it, that child born to us is "Mighty God"!!!! He was made that with the declaration from the beginning! You would have thought they would have at least picked it up from this verse:
Jn 1 -3 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.
It is just like I told you - Jesus Christ is God and the creator, and that all things except Himself, was created by Him. And so, He (Jesus Christ) is our Lord and God (Him, Mighty God) who created us? And He is the Lord our God! So the Lord our God is One God!! But you won't understand it because you don't keep the command to "Hear O Israel", and that is the foremost command, or did you not read that either?
Mar 12: 28,29 One of the scribes came and heard them arguing, and recognizing that He had answered them well, asked Him, “What commandment is the foremost of all?” Jesus answered, “The foremost is, ‘HEAR, O ISRAEL! THE LORD OUR GOD IS ONE LORD;
"HEAR, O ISRAEL!" is a command and indeed the foremost command, according to Jesus Christ (the Lord our God), and if you did actually hear from Him and keep that "foremost" command, then you would understand the 'statement' connected to understanding that "THE LORD OUR GOD IN ONE LORD" - but if you don't listen to Him then you won't understanding this - of have you not read this verse:
Prov 2:6 For the LORD gives wisdom;
From His mouth come knowledge and understanding.
Understanding does not come from leaning on your own understanding, no matter how much you read and study, but it comes from actually spending time reasoning and learning from Him - as does you salvation - or did you not read these two verses:
Is 1:18 “Come now, and let us reason together,”
Says the LORD,
“Though your sins are as scarlet,
They will be as white as snow;
Though they are red like crimson,
They will be like wool.
and
Rm 10:17 So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ.
If they missed all that (and they would if they don't listen to Him) you might have think they would have read:
1 Cor 12:3 Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus is accursed”; and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.
Therefore, in case you are still missing it, if a person says that the Lord our God is three (a trinity, Father, Son, and Spirit) is actually missing the fact that His Father gave Him all things and put Him on the throne!!!
Yet there is another twist, and that is that One Lord our God (Jesus Christ) who was given all things by His Father and was accomplished through the Holy Spirit of God, wants to give it all back to His Father!!! And in the mean time He also wants to include all of us, if we only believe in Him which comes from hearing Him, in that being One with God!!! And that in the same manner that He listens and does what His Father speaks to Him and give Him the Holy Spirit. And of course, in case you are still missing it, that again requires actually listening to Him!
So the meaning behind God being One God, applies to all believers, and it starts by us knowing the Lord our God (Jesus Christ) is One God - and knowing that means listening to Him!
Real believers know Him. And that because they hear His voice. His sheep do hear His voice, but many are just pretending obedience! So on that day, many will tell Him how they did things in His name but He will tell them that He never knew them, and He does not lie!!
Believers get to know One God, that child born to us who was given to us, because also love the world. So much so that He gave us Jesus Christ, and Him as our Lord and God who speaks to His children! Yet there are some:
2 Tim 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
You either know Him personally or you don't! You either hear Him talking with you or you don't! You either have a close personal relationship with that One who you know and talk back and forth with or you don't!
If you know Him, He is your One Lord and you One God. It is you and Him!!
If you knew the Holy Ghost - you would know that the Holy Ghost does not speak on His own!!! So the real Holy Ghost does not ever glorify Himself!!! He takes the words of God which belong to Jesus Christ and give the word of Jesus Christ to us who are true believers!! Of have you not read:
Jn 16:13 “But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come.
Do you not read "He will not speak on His own initiative"
and what about this verse:
Jn 16:14 “He will glorify Me, for He will take of Mine and will disclose it to you.
Or perhaps you might have read:
Jn 6:63 “It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and are life.
Do you not read about Jesus saying: "the words that I have spoken"
Jesus does the speaking!! We pick it up through the Holy Spirit, who does not speak on His own but take the words of God from Jesus Christ!!
Do you not understand this? Do you not have a phone?
A phone is a device that does not speak on its own, but rather takes the words from someone else and speaks them to you!! And if you talk to your brother on the phone you do not say "you know" the phone!!!
You might say you were on the phone, but you don't say the phone talked to you and that you personally know the phone!!!
So what you wrote - though you don't understand - is from a evil spirit!!! Other spirit will pretend to be the Holy Ghost, and have the words of God, but the real Holy Spirit will always tell you that Jesus Christ is Lord - even the Lord our God - and the real Holy Ghost is so dedicated to it that He will not ever speak on His own!!!
Who you heard from is an evil spirit that is promoting itself and not Jesus Christ!!! That is not was the true Holy Spirit does!!
If you knew the Holy Ghost
you would not have posted any of this to me.
This reply will work on most anything you post to me.
Concerning the post I made above, we all should understand that the Holy Spirit is not the only spirit around us!
Those spirit can be tricky! My mom's sister was a high priestess in a new age movement who felt Jesus Christ was dead and so they sought after the "Holy Spirit" - they were of course not Christians!! Yet we also battle with the dark spiritual forces of this world, and we too should have an understanding of what is going on around us. Jesus Christ - if you seek Him and reason with Him as the Lord your God, He will work at giving you understanding about this!
A good example of this might be that in the book of Revelation. To all seven churches written to it was written: "‘He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.’ - yet go though that entire book and try and find a single word actually credited to the Holy Spirit! I could only find a single one and it gave Jesus Christ as Lord the glory!
That is because the Holy Spirit is always promoting Jesus Christ and not Himself, but Jesus Christ as Lord. So the only time I ever hear the Spirit say something that is from Himself, is when He is specifically glorify Jesus Christ, and that is because Jesus Christ also does not promote Himself. So the Holy Spirit is not going to credit Jesus Christ with glorifying Himself, but in all other things He credits Jesus Christ with saying whatever words you hear from the Holy Spirit!
So what happens is that you find something like this:
Rev 4:2 Immediately I was in the Spirit; and behold, a throne was standing in heaven, and One sitting on the throne.
and:
Rev 19:12,13 From His mouth comes a sharp sword, so that with it He may strike down the nations, and He will rule them with a rod of iron; and He treads the wine press of the fierce wrath of God, the Almighty.
And on His robe and on His thigh He has a name written, “KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.”
So the Holy Spirit is always trying to get us to listen to Jesus Christ as KING AND LORD - which is not what many are doing! Many are sadly trying to tell you to get to know the Holy Spirit, but real Christians realize that the real Holy Spirit is trying to get us to know Jesus Christ and Him and our King and Lord!
Frankly, it is pretty sad to me when I run across someone who is saying that we have to know the Holy Spirit - because I know instantly that they don't know the Holy Spirit of God, because He is fully dedicated to hooking you up to Jesus Christ!
Those spirit can be tricky! My mom's sister was a high priestess in a new age movement who felt Jesus Christ was dead and so they sought after the "Holy Spirit" - they were of course not Christians!! Yet we also battle with the dark spiritual forces of this world, and we too should have an understanding of what is going on around us. Jesus Christ - if you seek Him and reason with Him as the Lord your God, He will work at giving you understanding about this!
A good example of this might be that in the book of Revelation. To all seven churches written to it was written: "‘He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.’ - yet go though that entire book and try and find a single word actually credited to the Holy Spirit! I could only find a single one and it gave Jesus Christ as Lord the glory!
That is because the Holy Spirit is always promoting Jesus Christ and not Himself, but Jesus Christ as Lord. So the only time I ever hear the Spirit say something that is from Himself, is when He is specifically glorify Jesus Christ, and that is because Jesus Christ also does not promote Himself. So the Holy Spirit is not going to credit Jesus Christ with glorifying Himself, but in all other things He credits Jesus Christ with saying whatever words you hear from the Holy Spirit!
So what happens is that you find something like this:
Rev 4:2 Immediately I was in the Spirit; and behold, a throne was standing in heaven, and One sitting on the throne.
and:
Rev 19:12,13 From His mouth comes a sharp sword, so that with it He may strike down the nations, and He will rule them with a rod of iron; and He treads the wine press of the fierce wrath of God, the Almighty.
And on His robe and on His thigh He has a name written, “KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.”
So the Holy Spirit is always trying to get us to listen to Jesus Christ as KING AND LORD - which is not what many are doing! Many are sadly trying to tell you to get to know the Holy Spirit, but real Christians realize that the real Holy Spirit is trying to get us to know Jesus Christ and Him and our King and Lord!
Frankly, it is pretty sad to me when I run across someone who is saying that we have to know the Holy Spirit - because I know instantly that they don't know the Holy Spirit of God, because He is fully dedicated to hooking you up to Jesus Christ!
Jesus was the name of the Holy Ghost made flesh. I know His knew name. Do you?
No, you do not know it.
Why do you not know it?
Because you don't know Him.
Oh you really don't understand!!
Gen 1:1-3
In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
Before time there was His Father and His Holy Spirit, and they the had the Only begotten Son Jesus Christ, and He is the light!
Jn 1:1-5 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
He was in the beginning with God.
All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.
In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men.
The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.
Jn 8:12 Then Jesus again spoke to them, saying, “I am the Light of the world; he who follows Me will not walk in the darkness, but will have the Light of life.”
It shouldn't be hard to understand Gen 1:1-3, but the darkness did not comprehend it!
Very simply put, the light, who is the Christ/only begotten Son, was the first thing that happened. Jesus Christ, like a gun with starts a race which is timed, is the beginning of all things! And He is a person!! A person that wants to know up personally.
Now He shares the same Holy Spirit with His Father. So in that way the Father and the Son are One! Yet His Father, because of the love His Father has for Him, instantly put Him in charge of all things, and even gave Him the task, according to the plans of His Father, of making all things so that "apart from Him nothing came into being" - like is written above.
And the Father and the Holy Spirit (both) choose to glorify Him (Jesus Christ, the person who is the only begotten Son). God does not glorify Himself, because the Father and the Spirit both glorify the Son, and the Son glorifies His Father by doing and saying only what He hears from His Father, via the Holy Spirit!
So this statement:
Is a false statement!!
While the Son shares the Holy Spirit with His Father, Jesus is a person Himself. Now He will send the Holy Spirit to us, with His words, which are the words of His Father given to Him as a possession - still He is a person and the One whom the Father and the Spirit glorify. That is why we see the concept that the Father, Son, and Spirit are three persons as One. And indeed, that having the Holy Spirit sent to us to indwell us, is like having Him in us, because the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God. Still- the Lord our God is One God - and that One is Jesus Christ - and anyone having the Holy Spirit knows the Holy Spirit will always tell you that Jesus Christ is Lord, as opposed to Himself being Lord, because the Holy Spirit, like His Father, always glorifies the Son and that by taking His words (the words of God which belong to Jesus Christ) and gives them to us! Yet they are His words, and not even the words of the Holy Spirit.
1 Cor 12:3 Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus is accursed”; and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.
Do look closely and consider - Lil is saying the Holy Ghost was made flesh - thereby that spirit which is influencing her is not saying "Jesus is Lord", but is a spirit substituting itself for the Son of God - Jesus Christ! The Holy Spirit does not do that, because the Holy Spirit is always glorify Jesus Christ!! Did we not read these verses?
Jn 16:14,15 “But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come.
“He will glorify Me, for He will take of Mine and will disclose it to you.
Jesus explained this issue to make it clear, but some still don't understand!
The word of God belong to the person Jesus Christ, and the Spirit of truth comes and guide us into all truth, because He will not speak on His own initiative, but what He (the Spirit hears from Jesus Christ the Word of God) takes those words and discloses it us. So the Spirit is not Him, and He is not the Spirit, but they are two person, but the One glorified as Lord is Jesus Christ! While it might be ok, and is, to say that hearing from the Holy Spirit is hearing from the Lord, but that because the Holy Spirit does "not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears , He will speak"! Yet what the Holy Spirit hears and speaks to you belong to Jesus Christ so we read "He will take of Mine" thereby proving Lil to be wrong!
It was Jesus Christ, that was made flesh!! And the Holy Spirit tells you that but false prophets don't!!!
Or do we not use the test given to us in the Bible?
1 John 4:1-3 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.
By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God;
and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God; this is the spirit of the antichrist, of which you have heard that it is coming, and now it is already in the world.
The statement:
fails that specific test! The statement is a cleverly twisted response to get around that test in 1 Jn 4:1-3. The Holy Spirit was not made flesh - Jesus Christ, the light made from "Let there be light" was the One who took on flesh.
Jesus was the beginning, the light which was the start, and before time, because time is something we count -
Gen 1:5 God called the light day, and the darkness He called night. And there was evening and there was morning, one day.
"One day is the count (time) starting. So the light, Jesus Christ was before that and thus eternal, just like a gun going off to start a race is before the timing of the race. The gun in a race is the beginning, and Jesus (the light) is also the beginning! And the Holy Spirit was already there, before time. And to this day the Holy Spirit has always been spirit!! Whereas Jesus Christ Himself did take on flesh and spoke words in sound waves to others in the flesh. Yet it is not those words that gave them life, but the words that He speaks to them through the Holy Spirit that would give the life. But again, the Holy Spirit does not speak on His own initiative - quit forgetting that!
God wants a personal relationship with us! That means Him talking back and forth with us! That is the best thing for us!!
And the thing we should understand was that the Spirit and the Father love the Son so much that being completely unselfish beings, they want that to happen through the Son - the One we call Jesus Christ.
Now the Son wants that too, but being a completely unselfish Himself and because of His concern and unfathomable love for us, He wants us to know His Father like He does, or at least as close to it as possible. So Jesus Christ only says and does what the Father asks Him to do, so that He becomes the perfect imagine of His Father. And the Holy Spirit is all for that too, so the Holy Spirit does all He can to also hook us up with the Son, and in so doing with the Father too. And so while all of this come to our spirit via the Holy Spirit, the Holy Spirit in no way wants to glorify Himself. He tries to be as invisible in the process as possible. And when the Holy Spirit does manifest, the purpose behind it is to bring us closer to the Son (Jesus Christ)
Therefore, the One Lord and God being presented to us by the Father and the Spirit is Jesus Christ, the Word of God! However if you come to know Jesus Christ you come to know the Father, because the Son will show you (reflect) the Father in all His does. Therefore knowing the Son is essentially knowing the Father - and that through the Spirit communicating with our spirit. Or have we not read:
Mat 11:27 “All things have been handed over to Me by My Father; and no one knows the Son except the Father; nor does anyone know the Father except the Son, and anyone to whom the Son wills to reveal Him.
So we, come into agreement with the Father and the Son who want to glorify the Son! The Father said through the cloud (the Holy Spirit) -
Luke 9:35 Then a voice came out of the cloud, saying, “This is My Son, My Chosen One; listen to Him!”
That is the Father's message through the cloud (Spirit) and so that is also our message!! That is how we preach The Word of God! We tell people that Jesus Christ is the chosen "ONE" - LISTEN TO HIM!
Therefore preaching the Lord our God is One Lord/God - we are saying, "Jesus Christ is the chosen "ONE" - LISTEN TO HIM!"
But that has a deeper meaning, because when we listen to Him we don't hear the words of His Father, because He does and say only what the Father tells Him!
Jn 12:49 “For I did not speak on My own initiative, but the Father Himself who sent Me has given Me a commandment as to what to say and what to speak.
So when you hear from Jesus Christ you hear only what the Father tells Him! And the Holy Spirit gets the words He has and the Spirit also only speaks what He hears!
Jn 16:13 “But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come.
So when we tell someone to listen to Jesus Christ, He sends the Holy Spirit with His words to talk to our spirit. And His words are the words that His Father told Him. So Jesus is glorified, but we don't really get to know Him, when we get to know Him, but rather we get to know His Father, because He and the Spirit only give us the words that came from the Father and were given to the Son and which the Holy Spirit brought to us. Therefore all good things flow down from the Father. And so people say God is three persons as One God - however because the Father wants His Son to get the glory, the One who is our Lord God is Jesus Christ, per the wish of the Father and Spirit!
And the good news is that we too have this ability to be one with God like Jesus Christ is. Which is to say that we too can hear the words for God and listen to the Lord our God via the Holy Spirit and in so doing we too are one with God like He is One with God - but we are not perfect (which is an understatement for sure) How often do we listen and then do and say only what comes to us via the Word of God through His Holy Spirit? Not much at all - right? Never-the-less, we can listen and obey at least some times, right?
Luke 8:21 But He answered and said to them, “My mother and My brothers are these who hear the word of God and do it.”
And the thing we should understand was that the Spirit and the Father love the Son so much that being completely unselfish beings, they want that to happen through the Son - the One we call Jesus Christ.
Now the Son wants that too, but being a completely unselfish Himself and because of His concern and unfathomable love for us, He wants us to know His Father like He does, or at least as close to it as possible. So Jesus Christ only says and does what the Father asks Him to do, so that He becomes the perfect imagine of His Father. And the Holy Spirit is all for that too, so the Holy Spirit does all He can to also hook us up with the Son, and in so doing with the Father too. And so while all of this come to our spirit via the Holy Spirit, the Holy Spirit in no way wants to glorify Himself. He tries to be as invisible in the process as possible. And when the Holy Spirit does manifest, the purpose behind it is to bring us closer to the Son (Jesus Christ)
Therefore, the One Lord and God being presented to us by the Father and the Spirit is Jesus Christ, the Word of God! However if you come to know Jesus Christ you come to know the Father, because the Son will show you (reflect) the Father in all His does. Therefore knowing the Son is essentially knowing the Father - and that through the Spirit communicating with our spirit. Or have we not read:
Mat 11:27 “All things have been handed over to Me by My Father; and no one knows the Son except the Father; nor does anyone know the Father except the Son, and anyone to whom the Son wills to reveal Him.
So we, come into agreement with the Father and the Son who want to glorify the Son! The Father said through the cloud (the Holy Spirit) -
Luke 9:35 Then a voice came out of the cloud, saying, “This is My Son, My Chosen One; listen to Him!”
That is the Father's message through the cloud (Spirit) and so that is also our message!! That is how we preach The Word of God! We tell people that Jesus Christ is the chosen "ONE" - LISTEN TO HIM!
Therefore preaching the Lord our God is One Lord/God - we are saying, "Jesus Christ is the chosen "ONE" - LISTEN TO HIM!"
But that has a deeper meaning, because when we listen to Him we don't hear the words of His Father, because He does and say only what the Father tells Him!
Jn 12:49 “For I did not speak on My own initiative, but the Father Himself who sent Me has given Me a commandment as to what to say and what to speak.
So when you hear from Jesus Christ you hear only what the Father tells Him! And the Holy Spirit gets the words He has and the Spirit also only speaks what He hears!
Jn 16:13 “But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come.
So when we tell someone to listen to Jesus Christ, He sends the Holy Spirit with His words to talk to our spirit. And His words are the words that His Father told Him. So Jesus is glorified, but we don't really get to know Him, when we get to know Him, but rather we get to know His Father, because He and the Spirit only give us the words that came from the Father and were given to the Son and which the Holy Spirit brought to us. Therefore all good things flow down from the Father. And so people say God is three persons as One God - however because the Father wants His Son to get the glory, the One who is our Lord God is Jesus Christ, per the wish of the Father and Spirit!
And the good news is that we too have this ability to be one with God like Jesus Christ is. Which is to say that we too can hear the words for God and listen to the Lord our God via the Holy Spirit and in so doing we too are one with God like He is One with God - but we are not perfect (which is an understatement for sure) How often do we listen and then do and say only what comes to us via the Word of God through His Holy Spirit? Not much at all - right? Never-the-less, we can listen and obey at least some times, right?
Luke 8:21 But He answered and said to them, “My mother and My brothers are these who hear the word of God and do it.”
Eliyahu613
Member
Bs"d
And that is what the Bible teaches:
"Hear Israel, Y-H-W-H is our God, Y-H-W-H is ONE!" Deut 6:4
"Listen, Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is One" Holman Christian Standard Bible
"Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one." English Standard Version
"Hear, O Israel! The LORD is our God, the LORD is one!" New American Standard Bible
"Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one." New International Version
"Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one!" New King James Version"
"And one of the scribes came up and heard them disputing with one another, and seeing that he answered them well, asked him, "Which commandment is the first of all?" Jesus answered, "The first is, `Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, THE LORD IS ONE; and you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind, and with all your strength.' The second is this, `You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' There is no other commandment greater than these." And the scribe said to him, "You are right, Teacher; you have truly said that HE IS ONE, and there is no other but he; and to love him with all the heart, and with all the understanding, and with all the strength, and to love one's neighbor as oneself, is much more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices." And when Jesus saw that he answered wisely, he said to him, "You are not far from the kingdom of God."" Mark 12:28-34 Revised Standard Version
“The most important one,” answered Jesus, “is this: ‘Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one." .... "You are right in saying that God is one" New International Version
"Here is the most important one. Moses said, 'Israel, listen to me. The Lord is our God. The Lord is one." .... "You are right in saying that God is one." New International Readers Version
"Jesus answered: Listen, Israel! The Lord our God, The Lord is One." .... "You have correctly said that He is One," Holman Christian Standard Bible
"Jesus answered, The first is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God, the Lord is one:" .... "thou hast well said that he is one;" American Standard Version
"Jesus answered him, “The first of all the commandments is: ‘Hear, O Israel, the LORD our God, the LORD is one." New King James Version
"Jesus answered, "The most important is, 'Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one" .... "You have truly said that he is one," English Standard Version
"Jesus said, "The first in importance is, 'Listen, Israel: The Lord your God is one;" .... "A wonderful answer, Teacher! So lucid and accurate—that God is one" The Message
"‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one." .... “You are right in saying that God is one" New International Version
"Now an intermediary implies more than one; but GOD IS ONE." Gal 3:20 Revised Standard Version
"Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but GOD IS ONE" King James Version
"A mediator, however, implies more than one party; but GOD IS ONE." New International Version
"Now an intermediary implies more than one, but GOD IS ONE." English Standard Version
"Now a mediator is not a mediator of one; but GOD IS ONE." American Standard Version
"and the mediator is not of one, and GOD IS ONE" Youngs Literal Translation
"You believe that GOD IS ONE; you do well." James 2:19 Revised Standard Version
"thou -- thou dost believe that GOD IS ONE; thou dost well," Youngs Literal translation
"Thou believest that GOD IS ONE; thou doest well:" American Standard Version
"You believe that GOD IS ONE; you do well." Holman Christian Standard Bible.
"Thou* believest that GOD IS ONE. Thou doest well." Darby Translation.
"It’s good that you believe that GOD IS ONE." Common English Bible
"You believe that GOD IS ONE; you do well." English Standard Version
"You believe that GOD IS ONE; you do well." Amplified Bible
"You believe that GOD IS ONE You do well;" New American Standard Bible
So the Bible teaches clearly that God is ONE.
"And J-e-h-o-v-a-h shall be King over all the earth: in that day shall J-e-h-o-v-a-h be one, and his name one." Zach 14:9 American Standard Version
"And the LORD shall be King over all the earth. In that day it shall be— “The LORD is one, And His name one." New King James Version
"And the LORD will be king over all the earth. On that day the LORD will be one and his name one." English Standard Version
"And the Lord shall be King over all the earth; in that day the Lord shall be one [in the recognition and worship of men] and His name one." Amplified Bible
God is one
Bs"d "Hear Israel, Y-H-W-H is our God, Y-H-W-H is ONE!" Deut 6:4 "Listen, Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is One" Holman Christian Standard Bible "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one." English Standard Version "Hear, O Israel! The LORD is our God, the LORD is one!" New
Eliyahu613
Member
Bs"d
"And they shall be one flesh" ..... In the Hebrew: "wehayu levasar echad" ..... This text is claimed by Christianity to prove that the word 'echad' can point to, or be, a 'composite unity', one being made up of more than one.
'Echad', one, can point to a composite unity. Of course. One can also point to a million: One million houses. Here one points to a million, but one is still one. We have here one million, and not a million millions. The fact that one points to something else does not change the meaning of one. One is one, and one stays one.
The claim that 'echad', one, can be a composite unity, with as proof the above verse, is simply wrong. In the above verse the flesh, made up of two people, is the composite unity, and not the 'echad', the one. Compare this to the following: One group of people. Here the group is the composite unity, and not the word one. We don't have here a composite unity of composite unities, but we have here one composite unity (the group of people). One is one and one stays one.
And last but not least; what Christianity does here, is comparing apples to oranges. The verse 'they will be one flesh' cannot be compared to 'God is one'. In the first verse the one is a number, telling us that there will be only one flesh. But in the second verse the one is not a number telling us that there is one God, here the one is an adjective, telling us that God IS one. (and not three) Here the one describes the essence of God, it doesn't give us the amount of Gods. Therefore you can not draw a conclusion from the first verse and apply it to the other.
Echad Eng
Bs"d "And they shall be one flesh" ..... In the Hebrew: "wehayu levasar echad" ..... This text is claimed by Christianity to prove that the word 'echad' can point to, or be, a 'composite unity', one being made up of more than one. 'Echad', one, can point to a composite unity. Of course. One
And of course, Christianity must not forget that they not only have the battle with the Hebrew word 'echad', but also with the Greek word 'eis', also meaning one. In Mark 12:28-34 Jesus has a discussion with a scribe. The scribe asks Jesus what is the first (that is here 'most important', not first in order, because many commandments were given earlier) commandment, and Jesus answers: "Hear Israel, the Lord is our God, the Lord is one." Here Jesus quotes Deuteronomy 6:4. That is in the Greek: 'Kurios' (Lord) 'eis' (one) 'estin' (is). When he said this to the scribe the scribe answers him: "You are right teacher; you have truly said that he is one (eis), and there is no other then he." Upon this answers Jesus: "You are not far from the kingdom of God." So basically everybody agrees that God is one, except for the Christians. Therefore; the Christians must not only twist, deform, and corrupt the meaning of 'echad', meaning one, into three, but also the Greek word 'eis'. The question is of course: How often can you pull stunts like that, and still have some credibility left?
For Christianity it is literally a matter of life and death to obscure the fact that God is one, because when God is one, then He is not three, and then the trinity goes out the window and the Christians are exposed as the idol worshipers they are. Therefore also here many Bible translations are corrupted. This is the answer of the scribe to Jesus: “You have truly said that he is one, and there is no other then he." The scribe says: “HE IS ONE”. He does not say that there is one God, he says: “He (referring to God) IS ONE, and there is no other then he.” Take good notice that the scribe does not use the word “God”, the scribe refers to God with the word “He”. The word “God” does not appear in the answer of the scribe. But look now at some translations:
All versions of the King James: And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he: (why else “King James ONLY!)
Youngs literal translation: And the scribe said to him, `Well, Teacher, in truth thou hast spoken that there is one God, and there is none other but He; Youngs literal translation is not so literal here…
Worldwide English: And the scribe said to him, `Well, Teacher, in truth thou hast spoken that there is one God, and there is none other but He;
Gone is the fact that God is one, replaced by the fact that there is one God. Christianity can live with one God. One God who is three that is: God the Father, god the son, and god the holy ghost.
Christianity can’t live with one God who is one, like the Bible teaches. Therefore the translations are corrupted, in order to cover up the fact that God is one.
But honor to whom honor is due, there are modern day Christian translations who translate this in the right way:
New International Version: "Well said, teacher," the man replied. "You are right in saying that God is one and there is no other but him.” The word “God” should have been “He”, but the message is correct.
New American Standard Bible: The scribe said to Him, ""Right, Teacher; You have truly stated that he is one, and there is no one else beside him.
Revised Standard Version: And the scribe said to him, "You are right, Teacher; you have truly said that he is one, and there is no other but he;
Darby translation: And the scribe said to him, Right, teacher; thou hast spoken according to [the] truth. For he is one, and there is none other besides him;
Last edited:
Bs"d
And that is what the Bible teaches:
"Hear Israel, Y-H-W-H is our God, Y-H-W-H is ONE!" Deut 6:4
"Listen, Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is One" Holman Christian Standard Bible
"Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one." English Standard Version
"Hear, O Israel! The LORD is our God, the LORD is one!" New American Standard Bible
"Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one." New International Version
"Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one!" New King James Version"
"And one of the scribes came up and heard them disputing with one another, and seeing that he answered them well, asked him, "Which commandment is the first of all?" Jesus answered, "The first is, `Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, THE LORD IS ONE; and you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind, and with all your strength.' The second is this, `You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' There is no other commandment greater than these." And the scribe said to him, "You are right, Teacher; you have truly said that HE IS ONE, and there is no other but he; and to love him with all the heart, and with all the understanding, and with all the strength, and to love one's neighbor as oneself, is much more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices." And when Jesus saw that he answered wisely, he said to him, "You are not far from the kingdom of God."" Mark 12:28-34 Revised Standard Version
“The most important one,” answered Jesus, “is this: ‘Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one." .... "You are right in saying that God is one" New International Version
"Here is the most important one. Moses said, 'Israel, listen to me. The Lord is our God. The Lord is one." .... "You are right in saying that God is one." New International Readers Version
"Jesus answered: Listen, Israel! The Lord our God, The Lord is One." .... "You have correctly said that He is One," Holman Christian Standard Bible
"Jesus answered, The first is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God, the Lord is one:" .... "thou hast well said that he is one;" American Standard Version
"Jesus answered him, “The first of all the commandments is: ‘Hear, O Israel, the LORD our God, the LORD is one." New King James Version
"Jesus answered, "The most important is, 'Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one" .... "You have truly said that he is one," English Standard Version
"Jesus said, "The first in importance is, 'Listen, Israel: The Lord your God is one;" .... "A wonderful answer, Teacher! So lucid and accurate—that God is one" The Message
"‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one." .... “You are right in saying that God is one" New International Version
"Now an intermediary implies more than one; but GOD IS ONE." Gal 3:20 Revised Standard Version
"Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but GOD IS ONE" King James Version
"A mediator, however, implies more than one party; but GOD IS ONE." New International Version
"Now an intermediary implies more than one, but GOD IS ONE." English Standard Version
"Now a mediator is not a mediator of one; but GOD IS ONE." American Standard Version
"and the mediator is not of one, and GOD IS ONE" Youngs Literal Translation
"You believe that GOD IS ONE; you do well." James 2:19 Revised Standard Version
"thou -- thou dost believe that GOD IS ONE; thou dost well," Youngs Literal translation
"Thou believest that GOD IS ONE; thou doest well:" American Standard Version
"You believe that GOD IS ONE; you do well." Holman Christian Standard Bible.
"Thou* believest that GOD IS ONE. Thou doest well." Darby Translation.
"It’s good that you believe that GOD IS ONE." Common English Bible
"You believe that GOD IS ONE; you do well." English Standard Version
"You believe that GOD IS ONE; you do well." Amplified Bible
"You believe that GOD IS ONE You do well;" New American Standard Bible
So the Bible teaches clearly that God is ONE.
"And J-e-h-o-v-a-h shall be King over all the earth: in that day shall J-e-h-o-v-a-h be one, and his name one." Zach 14:9 American Standard Version
"And the LORD shall be King over all the earth. In that day it shall be— “The LORD is one, And His name one." New King James Version
"And the LORD will be king over all the earth. On that day the LORD will be one and his name one." English Standard Version
"And the Lord shall be King over all the earth; in that day the Lord shall be one [in the recognition and worship of men] and His name one." Amplified Bible
God is one
Bs"d "Hear Israel, Y-H-W-H is our God, Y-H-W-H is ONE!" Deut 6:4 "Listen, Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is One" Holman Christian Standard Bible "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one." English Standard Version "Hear, O Israel! The LORD is our God, the LORD is one!" Newsites.google.com
I don’t disagree but that’s not what this thread is about. This thread asks the question, Is God more than three?
Bs"d
Bs"d
"And they shall be one flesh" ..... In the Hebrew: "wehayu levasar echad" ..... This text is claimed by Christianity to prove that the word 'echad' can point to, or be, a 'composite unity', one being made up of more than one.
'Echad', one, can point to a composite unity. Of course. One can also point to a million: One million houses. Here one points to a million, but one is still one. We have here one million, and not a million millions. The fact that one points to something else does not change the meaning of one. One is one, and one stays one.
The claim that 'echad', one, can be a composite unity, with as proof the above verse, is simply wrong. In the above verse the flesh, made up of two people, is the composite unity, and not the 'echad', the one. Compare this to the following: One group of people. Here the group is the composite unity, and not the word one. We don't have here a composite unity of composite unities, but we have here one composite unity (the group of people). One is one and one stays one.
And last but not least; what Christianity does here, is comparing apples to oranges. The verse 'they will be one flesh' cannot be compared to 'God is one'. In the first verse the one is a number, telling us that there will be only one flesh. But in the second verse the one is not a number telling us that there is one God, here the one is an adjective, telling us that God IS one. (and not three) Here the one describes the essence of God, it doesn't give us the amount of Gods. Therefore you can not draw a conclusion from the first verse and apply it to the other.
Echad Eng
Bs"d "And they shall be one flesh" ..... In the Hebrew: "wehayu levasar echad" ..... This text is claimed by Christianity to prove that the word 'echad' can point to, or be, a 'composite unity', one being made up of more than one. 'Echad', one, can point to a composite unity. Of course. One
And of course, Christianity must not forget that they not only have the battle with the Hebrew word 'echad', but also with the Greek word 'eis', also meaning one. In Mark 12:28-34 Jesus has a discussion with a scribe. The scribe asks Jesus what is the first (that is here 'most important', not first in order, because many commandments were given earlier) commandment, and Jesus answers: "Hear Israel, the Lord is our God, the Lord is one." Here Jesus quotes Deuteronomy 6:4. That is in the Greek: 'Kurios' (Lord) 'eis' (one) 'estin' (is). When he said this to the scribe the scribe answers him: "You are right teacher; you have truly said that he is one (eis), and there is no other then he." Upon this answers Jesus: "You are not far from the kingdom of God." So basically everybody agrees that God is one, except for the Christians. Therefore; the Christians must not only twist, deform, and corrupt the meaning of 'echad', meaning one, into three, but also the Greek word 'eis'. The question is of course: How often can you pull stunts like that, and still have some credibility left?
For Christianity it is literally a matter of life and death to obscure the fact that God is one, because when God is one, then He is not three, and then the trinity goes out the window and the Christians are exposed as the idol worshipers they are. Therefore also here many Bible translations are corrupted. This is the answer of the scribe to Jesus: “You have truly said that he is one, and there is no other then he." The scribe says: “HE IS ONE”. He does not say that there is one God, he says: “He (referring to God) IS ONE, and there is no other then he.” Take good notice that the scribe does not use the word “God”, the scribe refers to God with the word “He”. The word “God” does not appear in the answer of the scribe. But look now at some translations:
All versions of the King James: And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he: (why else “King James ONLY!)
Youngs literal translation: And the scribe said to him, `Well, Teacher, in truth thou hast spoken that there is one God, and there is none other but He; Youngs literal translation is not so literal here…
Worldwide English: And the scribe said to him, `Well, Teacher, in truth thou hast spoken that there is one God, and there is none other but He;
Gone is the fact that God is one, replaced by the fact that there is one God. Christianity can live with one God. One God who is three that is: God the Father, god the son, and god the holy ghost.
Christianity can’t live with one God who is one, like the Bible teaches. Therefore the translations are corrupted, in order to cover up the fact that God is one.
But honor to whom honor is due, there are modern day Christian translations who translate this in the right way:
New International Version: "Well said, teacher," the man replied. "You are right in saying that God is one and there is no other but him.” The word “God” should have been “He”, but the message is correct.
New American Standard Bible: The scribe said to Him, ""Right, Teacher; You have truly stated that he is one, and there is no one else beside him.
Revised Standard Version: And the scribe said to him, "You are right, Teacher; you have truly said that he is one, and there is no other but he;
Darby translation: And the scribe said to him, Right, teacher; thou hast spoken according to [the] truth. For he is one, and there is none other besides him;
I’m living proof that your testimony against Christianity is imprecise.
Eliyahu613
Member
Bs"d
Well, it is a kind of simple: When God is one, than He is NOT more than three, and also not more than one.
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