The Fall of Humanity

[Robert Pate]

The fall of humanity is very controversial because it is about original sin. Adam and Eve were created innocent. I believe that God wanted them to have a free will to choose evil or good, unfortunately they chose evil. They bought the devils lie that they would be like God's knowing good from evil, Genesis 3:5. The fall of humanity began in heaven when God announced to the angels that he was going to create a race of humans that was going to be their superiors, Paul said that the saved would judge angels, 1 Corinthians 6:3. I believe that when Satan heard that, a rebellion started and there was war in heaven, Revelation 12:7. The scripture says, "Woe to the inhabitors of the earth and of the sea! for the devil has come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knows that his time is short". God allowed Satan to have access to Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden, as a test to see if they would choose good or evil. Satan and one third of the angels were cast out of heaven onto the earth, they are still here in the form of demons.

Adam was the representative of humanity. As Adam goes so go we. We are all related to Adam, he is our first father, we all have Adam's blood coursing through our veins. This is why Jesus was not born after Adam, he was born of God and does not have Adam's blood which is corrupted. The whole human race has been corrupted by Satan. Paul wrote. "For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous Romans 5:19. We are born sinners, King David said, "Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me" Psalm 51:5. I have raised three children, the trouble starts at about two years old when they decide that they don't like the word "No". When they reach the teen age years is when the real trouble begins, and you begin to wonder if you made a mistake in having them. Somehow, we seem to get through all of the rebellion.

I have trouble with those that seem to think that by the deeds of the law they can annihilate their Adamic nature and become holy. If that was possible then Jesus lived and died in vain and is why Paul said, "There is none righteous, no, not one" Romans 3:10. When we accept Christ as our savior God gives us the Holy Spirit. Does that get rid of our old Adam? No, if anything it makes things worse, because we now have two natures, that of Satan and that of Christ. "So that now the flesh (Satan) lusts against the Spirit and the Spirit (Christ) against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that you cannot do the things that you would" Galatians 5:17. What is the solution to this problem? There isn't one. As long as we are in these Adamic bodies we will have to struggle with sin, just like Paul did, Romans 7:7-25.

 

[Randy Kluth]

The fall of humanity is very controversial because it is about original sin. Adam and Eve were created innocent. I believe that God wanted them to have a free will to choose evil or good, unfortunately they chose evil. They bought the devils lie that they would be like God's knowing good from evil, Genesis 3:5. The fall of humanity began in heaven when God announced to the angels that he was going to create a race of humans that was going to be their superiors, Paul said that the saved would judge angels, 1 Corinthians 6:3. I believe that when Satan heard that, a rebellion started and there was war in heaven, Revelation 12:7. The scripture says, "Woe to the inhabitors of the earth and of the sea! for the devil has come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knows that his time is short". God allowed Satan to have access to Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden, as a test to see if they would choose good or evil. Satan and one third of the angels were cast out of heaven onto the earth, they are still here in the form of demons.

I can't say precisely what caused Satan to fall, but I don't think it was because men were appointed to be his judge. My thought is that God gave men authority on earth, rendering any involvement on earth by Satan an act of trespassing. That made it so that human capitulation to Satan could be forgiven as provocations and duress. Only men who upheld their rebellion after coming to know they were bullied would be beyond forgiveness.

Being judges over angels does not mean we are superior to angels. It just means that we have authority in a place where if they trespass we can have them committed to divine judgment. In Jude we're warned against presuming things about angels. Clearly, angels are superior to men. If we don't see Satan as more powerful than ourselves, when he is described as "prince of the power of the air," then we're becoming willfully arrogant, according to Jude.

Adam was the representative of humanity. As Adam goes so go we. We are all related to Adam, he is our first father, we all have Adam's blood coursing through our veins. This is why Jesus was not born after Adam, he was born of God and does not have Adam's blood which is corrupted. The whole human race has been corrupted by Satan. Paul wrote. "For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous Romans 5:19. We are born sinners, King David said, "Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me" Psalm 51:5. I have raised three children, the trouble starts at about two years old when they decide that they don't like the word "No". When they reach the teen age years is when the real trouble begins, and you begin to wonder if you made a mistake in having them. Somehow, we seem to get through all of the rebellion.

Yes, Sin is there from the start in our lives. Our Spiritual DNA has been polluted.

I have trouble with those that seem to think that by the deeds of the law they can annihilate their Adamic nature and become holy. If that was possible then Jesus lived and died in vain and is why Paul said, "There is none righteous, no, not one" Romans 3:10. When we accept Christ as our savior God gives us the Holy Spirit. Does that get rid of our old Adam? No, if anything it makes things worse, because we now have two natures, that of Satan and that of Christ. "So that now the flesh (Satan) lusts against the Spirit and the Spirit (Christ) against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that you cannot do the things that you would" Galatians 5:17. What is the solution to this problem? There isn't one. As long as we are in these Adamic bodies we will have to struggle with sin, just like Paul did, Romans 7:7-25.

The quote "there is none righteous" comes from a place where Israel had fallen, woefully low, as a nation, from God's standards. It is not meant to say that Israel is always that low, or that they must always, by nature, be that despicably low.

I think Paul is saying that if an entire nation can be corrupted then Sin is in all of us, just as you said we're all born in Sin. If we sin from the time we're little children, then it's obvious we all have a Sin Nature. If a whole nation can be corrupted, then it's obvious they all had a Sin Nature.

The idea is not about how despicable we all are. Rather, it's about how despicable we can all become if we do not rely upon Christ outside of ourselves for our values and virtue. Since all men have access to God's word they don't have to be completely despicable, despite the presence of Sin in their lives. And since we have the ability to make Christ Lord we can become born again and become good people, despite the continuing presence of Sin in our lives.

Everything we do has a measure of moral flaw built into it. But it doesn't mean we can't obey God's word. In obeying God's word we obtain virtue. But for God, it isn't enough to simply display moral virtue from God. We must show ourselves to be good by embracing Christ in our heart.

This means that we must sacrifice all of our sinful tendencies to follow Christ's word. It doesn't mean we stop having moral flaws in our character. But it shows where we have set our allegiance. In making Christ our Lord we are made to be good by the word of Christ. We inculcate the values to ourselves that Christ has. And we adopt his spirituality. And that spirituality is able to overcome Sin--not erase it, but overcome it.

 

[Robert Pate]

I can't say precisely what caused Satan to fall, but I don't think it was because men were appointed to be his judge. My thought is that God gave men authority on earth, rendering any involvement on earth by Satan an act of trespassing. That made it so that human capitulation to Satan could be forgiven as provocations and duress. Only men who upheld their rebellion after coming to know they were bullied would be beyond forgiveness.

Being judges over angels does not mean we are superior to angels. It just means that we have authority in a place where if they trespass we can have them committed to divine judgment. In Jude we're warned against presuming things about angels. Clearly, angels are superior to men. If we don't see Satan as more powerful than ourselves, when he is described as "prince of the power of the air," then we're becoming willfully arrogant, according to Jude.

Yes, Sin is there from the start in our lives. Our Spiritual DNA has been polluted.

The quote "there is none righteous" comes from a place where Israel had fallen, woefully low, as a nation, from God's standards. It is not meant to say that Israel is always that low, or that they must always, by nature, be that despicably low.

I think Paul is saying that if an entire nation can be corrupted then Sin is in all of us, just as you said we're all born in Sin. If we sin from the time we're little children, then it's obvious we all have a Sin Nature. If a whole nation can be corrupted, then it's obvious they all had a Sin Nature.

The idea is not about how despicable we all are. Rather, it's about how despicable we can all become if we do not rely upon Christ outside of ourselves for our values and virtue. Since all men have access to God's word they don't have to be completely despicable, despite the presence of Sin in their lives. And since we have the ability to make Christ Lord we can become born again and become good people, despite the continuing presence of Sin in our lives.

Everything we do has a measure of moral flaw built into it. But it doesn't mean we can't obey God's word. In obeying God's word we obtain virtue. But for God, it isn't enough to simply display moral virtue from God. We must show ourselves to be good by embracing Christ in our heart.

This means that we must sacrifice all of our sinful tendencies to follow Christ's word. It doesn't mean we stop having moral flaws in our character. But it shows where we have set our allegiance. In making Christ our Lord we are made to be good by the word of Christ. We inculcate the values to ourselves that Christ has. And we adopt his spirituality. And that spirituality is able to overcome Sin--not erase it, but overcome it.

Satan was expelled from heaven because he wanted to be God, Isaiah 14:12-14.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Satan was expelled from heaven because he wanted to be God, Isaiah 14:12-14.

In effect, yes. He wanted to be his own god, to have control over his own life without reference to the one true God. I believe Satan knew he was just a creature, and that God was the Creator. However, he wanted supremacy over his own life and over the things God had given him influence over.

That was, in effect, wanting to be God. He was jealous of God's authority over others, and wanted to have the authority for himself in the area where he thought he could exercise sovereignty. Indeed, he wanted to be worshiped as a god, the god of this earth. He likely wanted to be lord over a segment of God's angels, as well. He is like so many tyrants in earth's history. And his fate will be the same as theirs.

 

[Aunty Jane]

The fall of humanity is very controversial because it is about original sin. Adam and Eve were created innocent. I believe that God wanted them to have a free will to choose evil or good, unfortunately they chose evil. They bought the devils lie that they would be like God's knowing good from evil, Genesis 3:5.

Being made in God’s image and likeness, meant that humans would have free will like he does. But free will was not totally “free” because God gave them parameters within which to exercise their free will. That was his Sovereign right as their God and lawgiver. He did not want them to choose that knowledge for themselves, because he placed that decision is his own exclusive jurisdiction. He would decide what was good and what was evil so they would never have to know what an evil thing was. Every good parent wants to shield their children from harm.

The fall of humanity began in heaven when God announced to the angels that he was going to create a race of humans that was going to be their superiors

I don’t believe that was so…..it was the angels in heaven who applauded when God created the material universe and all that went with it.

Job 38:4-7…God asked Job….
”Where were you when I founded the earth?
Tell me, if you think you understand.
5 Who set its measurements, in case you know,
Or who stretched a measuring line across it?
6 Into what were its pedestals sunk,
Or who laid its cornerstone,
7 When the morning stars joyfully cried out together,
And all the sons of God began shouting in applause?”

The angels had nothing to fear from the creation of man….humans were created “a little lower than angels”.
Even Jesus as a human was “a little lower than angels”….

Hebrews 2:5-9….
”For it is not to angels that he has subjected the inhabited earth to come, about which we are speaking. 6 But in one place a certain witness said: “What is man that you keep him in mind, or a son of man that you take care of him? 7 You made him a little lower than angels; you crowned him with glory and honor, and appointed him over the works of your hands. 8 All things you subjected under his feet.” By subjecting all things to him, God left nothing that is not subject to him. Now, though, we do not yet see all things in subjection to him. 9 But we do see Jesus, who was made a little lower than angels, now crowned with glory and honor for having suffered death, so that by God’s undeserved kindness he might taste death for everyone.”

 

[Aunty Jane]

Paul said that the saved would judge angels, 1 Corinthians 6:3.

It is not all “saved” humans who will be those who “would judge angels”…only those chosen for a role in heaven, (those who will share rulership and priesthood with Jesus. Rev 20:6) will have that privilege.
Reading that verse in context, it is really focusing on the fact that Paul’s brothers and sisters in Christ were actually taking one another to a worldly court, rather than taking their justice issues to the “holy ones” (saints) Their quest for justice overshadowed their Christian love, which should have “covered a multitude of sins”.

I believe that when Satan heard that, a rebellion started and there was war in heaven, Revelation 12:7. The scripture says, "Woe to the inhabitors of the earth and of the sea! for the devil has come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knows that his time is short". God allowed Satan to have access to Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden, as a test to see if they would choose good or evil. Satan and one third of the angels were cast out of heaven onto the earth, they are still here in the form of demons.

Actually, the Revelation is about the future, not the past. The casting out of the devil did not take place until satan and his demons were evicted from heaven and confined to the earth in these last days. The “war in heaven” was a cleansing of their former abode, where they apparently had access between heaven and earth throughout man’s history.
We know that in the book of Job, satan entered in among the other “sons of God” even though he was a rebel.
Jon 1:6-7…
”Now the day came when the sons of the true God entered to take their station before Jehovah, and Satan also entered among them.
7 Then Jehovah said to Satan: “Where have you come from?” Satan answered Jehovah: “From roving about on the earth and from walking about in it.”

The reason why satan had access to Adam and Eve is because he was a guardian cherub in the garden, set there by God….a position of great responsibility. (Ezek 28:12-17) He abused the trust given him and plotted to steal the worship of the humans for himself…..creatures “lower” than himself.

Remember in the Lord’s Prayer that with the coming of God’s Kingdom, God’s will was to “be done on earth as it is in heaven” so a cleansing of both realms was to take place…..heaven first, with Christ’s installation as King, (Daniel 7:13-14) and at the appointed time…the earth was to be wiped clean of sin and all who practice it.

Adam was the representative of humanity. As Adam goes so go we. We are all related to Adam, he is our first father, we all have Adam's blood coursing through our veins. This is why Jesus was not born after Adam, he was born of God and does not have Adam's blood which is corrupted. The whole human race has been corrupted by Satan. Paul wrote. "For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous Romans 5:19. We are born sinners, King David said, "Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me" Psalm 51:5.

Yes….Adam’s sin caused a fault in his genetics that was inherited by all of us. Jesus had to come from outside of the flawed human race to buy back (redeem) Adam’s children.

 

[Aunty Jane]

I have raised three children, the trouble starts at about two years old when they decide that they don't like the word "No". When they reach the teen age years is when the real trouble begins, and you begin to wonder if you made a mistake in having them. Somehow, we seem to get through all of the rebellion.

I have trouble with those that seem to think that by the deeds of the law they can annihilate their Adamic nature and become holy. If that was possible then Jesus lived and died in vain and is why Paul said, "There is none righteous, no, not one" Romans 3:10. When we accept Christ as our savior God gives us the Holy Spirit. Does that get rid of our old Adam? No, if anything it makes things worse, because we now have two natures, that of Satan and that of Christ. "So that now the flesh (Satan) lusts against the Spirit and the Spirit (Christ) against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that you cannot do the things that you would" Galatians 5:17.

Exactly….the sin in our flesh fights with the spirit that wants to do what is right….good and evil fighting against each other….the very thing God wanted to prevent, but had to allow his children free will.
The object lessons last longer than the written ones.

What is the solution to this problem? There isn't one. As long as we are in these Adamic bodies we will have to struggle with sin, just like Paul did, Romans 7:7-25.

True….but we are not alone in this struggle. Adam and his wife, like the angelic rebels were perfect because they were direct creations of God….they had no defects and no excuse to sin, and therefore had no basis for God to forgive them in their willful disobedience. Humans produced by them OTOH, were born in sin through no fault of their own, so we alone have God’s spirit…the most powerful force in the Universe, fighting “with” us…..but not “instead” of us. We still need to put forth the effort to fight our sinful nature and God will back us up, giving us the will and the power to defeat the devil at every opportunity he takes to undermine our faith. The most success he has had, is with the counterfeit “Christianity” he invented to make people believe that they have the truth, but it is all based on deception. These will offer their excuses to Christ at the judgment, but to no avail. (Matt 7:21-23) Jesus will tell them in no uncertain terms…”I never knew you!”….

Now is the time to really examine what we have been taught…..is the “Christianity” most people accept, the real one or the counterfeit? A careful study of the scriptures will reveal the truth to a genuine seeker…..but not to those who love the lie, and continue to promote the devil’s counterfeit. (John 6:65; 2 Thess 2:9-12)

 

[Rightglory]

The fall of humanity is very controversial because it is about original sin.

The term "original sin" has a very specific meaning for both Catholics and Protestants who took the meaning from the Catholics via St. Augustine. The problem is that what is understood by origional sin is as false as the opposite is, Pelagianism.

Adam and Eve were created innocent. I believe that God wanted them to have a free will to choose evil or good, unfortunately they chose evil.

Correct, but to say God wanted them to have a free will can be more strongly stated in that, God created man in His Image which means man has a free will. God created man in order to be able to communicate with man, to share His love with His creation and above all, man. Man would be able to reciprocate that love if he chose to do so.
Man freely chose to obey Satan rather than God and suffered the consequences which was death.
God permitted Satan to have dominion on this earth. According to Heb 2:14-16 Satan has the power of death and sin. Christ came to defeat Satan and his power.

Adam was the representative of humanity.

Adam is NOT our representative. He is us. Just as Christ in His human nature is us. We all are inherently consubstantial with each other in our human nature.

As Adam goes so go we. We are all related to Adam, he is our first father, we all have Adam's blood coursing through our veins. This is why Jesus was not born after Adam, he was born of God and does not have Adam's blood which is corrupted. The whole human race has been corrupted by Satan.

Yes and no. As to sin, no. As to our human nature, yes. Christ was born as Adam other wise He would not have been a true human being. What do you think Eve's nature was? He was Incarnated by the Holy Spirit, born of the Virgin Mary. Meaning God through Christ was able to become man. He was like us in every respect but did not sin. The temptations Christ endured would be meaningless if Christ did not have the capability to sin. He bore our frailties, suffered in His human nature as we do, which is why He can be an actual mediator between God and man.

Paul wrote. "For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous Romans 5:19. We are born sinners, King David said, "Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me" Psalm 51:5.

That is NOT what Psalm 51:5 means. Man is not born a sinner. Man is born with a fallen human nature in a fallen creation with sin all around us. He has the propensity to sin. We are not sin as you state. Sin is an act of a moral rational man. If it was actually organic then Christ is not possible as a human being. He would by default be sin as we would be. Christ had a nature that could sin but did not. We sin because of death - I Cor 15:56. He also needed a nature that had the capability to die, namely our human nature. He defeated death by His Resurrection. so we are no longer under the curse of death through Adam.
Which is why Christ is the opposite of Adam. This is what I Cor 15:21-22 is stating very clearly. As in Adam all die (physically) so also in Christ shall all be made alive (physically). Which is stated will happen in the escotan, I Cor 15: 52-53.

 

[PGS11]

If you believe in Jesus and the sacrifice he made then you have to believe the fall of mankind Its why Jesus came.With out the fall the whole faith falls apart and makes Jesus sacrifice meaningless.So the question is do you believe in Christianity or just parts of it.If you don't believe in the fall of mankind please explain Jesus's sacrifice - you can't.I think you look for evidence of a fallen world as a example is death in everything and the answer is yes even in your thoughts and feelings.This reality is fading at every moment everything is moving towards death and destruction.The only thing keeping things going here is the creative force of God renew life continually or there would be nothing but death.

 

[Aunty Jane]

The term "original sin" has a very specific meaning for both Catholics and Protestants who took the meaning from the Catholics via St. Augustine. The problem is that what is understood by origional sin is as false as the opposite is, Pelagianism.

So what then was the “original sin”? Was it not disobedience to God’s command and a suffering of the stated penalty…eventual ”death through sin” which then “spread to all men because they had all sinned”…? (Romans 5:12)

Correct, but to say God wanted them to have a free will can be more strongly stated in that, God created man in His Image which means man has a free will. God created man in order to be able to communicate with man, to share His love with His creation and above all, man. Man would be able to reciprocate that love if he chose to do so.

This is an important point….God created intelligent beings who could reciprocate his love…..this is God’s cardinal quality, but unless it is reciprocated, what is the point of it? It is the only thing that God cannot give to himself.

His first intelligent creation was his “firstborn son” (Rev 3:14)…..a unique being who spent untold eons with his God and Father, learning his wisdom and to imitate his wonderful qualities.
At some point in time, other “sons” were created but these were not like God’s original son, who was “only begotten” (meaning the only being created directly by his Father.) Through the agency of this son, all creation came into existence. (Col 1:15-17; John 1:2-4)

Man freely chose to obey Satan rather than God and suffered the consequences which was death.
God permitted Satan to have dominion on this earth. According to Heb 2:14-16 Satan has the power of death and sin. Christ came to defeat Satan and his power.

The reason why God permitted satan to have dominion over this world is also important.
This deceiver was a liar and promoted wrong thinking among the now defective human race, who because of sin in their DNA, had the propensity to be easily led to commit evil.…the one thing God had tried to prevent by adding the death penalty to eating of the forbidden fruit…..a knowledge of evil was not something that the Creator wanted humans to obtain, as he knew where its exercise would take them.

In the natural scheme of things, all creation has equal opposites, which are taken for granted most of the time, but they benefit us in many ways. When it came to the opposites of “good and evil” however, God chose to place that specific knowledge in his own jurisdiction….why? Because the infinite goodness of God had an equal opposite that had not, until satan’s rebellion, been experienced by any of God’s children.
Free will had not been abused in the heavenly realm before then, apparently. So satan unleashed something that had not been experienced before…..”the wages of sin”.…and the degree or the depth of the sins that came to be committed by sinful men under the influence of the devil.
This is why God wanted to keep that knowledge to himself…..all the humans had to do was obey their Creator and all would have turned out as God purposed…..perfect sinless life, in paradise conditions on earth forever….

Christ was born as Adam other wise He would not have been a true human being.

Yes, which rules out Jesus being an immortal being, as God is. Immortals cannot die. Only a mortal could pay the price of redemption….”a life for a life”….in this case a “sinless life“ for the “sinless life“ that Adam stole from his children.

He was Incarnated by the Holy Spirit, born of the Virgin Mary. Meaning God through Christ was able to become man. He was like us in every respect but did not sin. The temptations Christ endured would be meaningless if Christ did not have the capability to sin. He bore our frailties, suffered in His human nature as we do, which is why He can be an actual mediator between God and man.

“God through Christ” was able to rescue mankind because he alone was the trustworthy “servant” of his Father, (Acts 4:27, 30) willing to sacrifice his mortal human life for the ones he had helped to create. (Gen 1:26)

 

[Aunty Jane]

Sin is an act of a moral rational man. If it was actually organic then Christ is not possible as a human being. He would by default be sin as we would be. Christ had a nature that could sin but did not.

Since death is caused by sin, and newborn babies and infants can die, death has to be “organic”…like an inherited defect that is passed from parent to child, through no fault on the part of the child.…nor is it the intention of the parent to pass this death dealing inheritance onto their children….that is the way it is for now.

Christ had to come into the world as “the last Adam”…..a sinless mortal, but genetically disconnected from Adam completely. This time the man, Jesus the Christ was also a direct creation of his Father in human form.…..but through a human vehicle, as sinful as all others…Mary was a wonderful example of fidelity and faith in her God. She humbly accepted her assignment and carried God’s son and delivered him into the world, fulfilling all the prophesies written about him.

He also needed a nature that had the capability to die, namely our human nature. He defeated death by His Resurrection. so we are no longer under the curse of death through Adam.
Which is why Christ is the opposite of Adam.

Actually Christ is the exact equivalent of Adam, not the opposite….to exchange a life for a life, he had to be the equal of what Adam was before he introduced sin into the world.
Christ atoned for Adam’s sin….”atonement“ is at-one-ment….or one for one.
Death was overcome for Jesus by his Father resurrecting him….and overcome for the whole human race by extension. His death meant a release from death for all of us….both above ground and under it.

The resurrections that Jesus and his apostles performed in the first century were a foregleam of the resurrections to take place in the future. (John 5:28-29) Christ is called the “firstborn from the dead“ yet he was not the first human to be resurrected. How is this to be understood? Christ’s resurrection was the first to take place “in the spirit”….that is, as it is stated by Peter…”put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit”….(1 Peter 3:18)…..Christ’s fleshly body was sacrificed and he was raised in a new body, not of flesh, so as to return to his Father in heaven. Flesh and blood cannot enter heaven.

Christ shall all be made alive (physically). Which is stated will happen in the escotan, I Cor 15: 52-53.

Since there are two resurrections, one to heaven which granted to the elect who will rule with Jesus as “kings and priests” (Rev 20:6) and is of necessity a spiritual resurrection as these will rule from heaven….and the other is the general resurrection of the dead which will take place on earth, (John 5:28-29) once the Kingdom has removed every vestige of satan’s rulership from this earth, and replaced it with God’s rulership under Christ….only then can God bring the redeemed human race back into reconciliation with himself, and restore his original purpose for them….to “fill the earth” and make the whole planet into an Edenic paradise to enjoy forever.…praising God for all eternity for the abundance of his loving provisions.

 

[Rightglory]

So what then was the “original sin”? Was it not disobedience to God’s command and a suffering of the stated penalty…eventual ”death through sin” which then “spread to all men because they had all sinned”…? (Romans 5:12)

It is not the sin in either case. It is the consequence of that sin. Augustine distorted that consequence. He believed that man inherited the guilt of that sin. When Gen 3:19 is quite clear what God meant by death. Man became mortal. physical death was the consequence. Rom 5:12 is also clear in that we, since Adam die, physically, because of Adam.

This is an important point….God created intelligent beings who could reciprocate his love…..this is God’s cardinal quality, but unless it is reciprocated, what is the point of it? It is the only thing that God cannot give to himself.

His first intelligent creation was his “firstborn son” (Rev 3:14)…..a unique being who spent untold eons with his God and Father, learning his wisdom and to imitate his wonderful qualities.
At some point in time, other “sons” were created but these were not like God’s original son, who was “only begotten” (meaning the only being created directly by his Father.) Through the agency of this son, all creation came into existence. (Col 1:15-17; John 1:2-4)

I'm assuming you do not hold to the Trinity. God is one with three Persons, uncreated, and immortal.

The reason why God permitted satan to have dominion over this world is also important.
This deceiver was a liar and promoted wrong thinking among the now defective human race, who because of sin in their DNA, had the propensity to be easily led to commit evil.…the one thing God had tried to prevent by adding the death penalty to eating of the forbidden fruit…..a knowledge of evil was not something that the Creator wanted humans to obtain, as he knew where its exercise would take them.

In the natural scheme of things, all creation has equal opposites, which are taken for granted most of the time, but they benefit us in many ways. When it came to the opposites of “good and evil” however, God chose to place that specific knowledge in his own jurisdiction….why? Because the infinite goodness of God had an equal opposite that had not, until satan’s rebellion, been experienced by any of God’s children.
Free will had not been abused in the heavenly realm before then, apparently. So satan unleashed something that had not been experienced before…..”the wages of sin”.…and the degree or the depth of the sins that came to be committed by sinful men under the influence of the devil.
This is why God wanted to keep that knowledge to himself…..all the humans had to do was obey their Creator and all would have turned out as God purposed…..perfect sinless life, in paradise conditions on earth forever….

It is much simpler than that. Love, true love cannot exist outside of choice Man was created with a free will. Man is able to choose to love
God, or reject Him. Both decisions have consequences.

Yes, which rules out Jesus being an immortal being, as God is. Immortals cannot die. Only a mortal could pay the price of redemption….”a life for a life”….in this case a “sinless life“ for the “sinless life“ that Adam stole from his children.

Jesus is God. He is the second person of the Trinity - Immortal. But He is also man, taking on our human nature in order to raise that nature to immortality which man was not able to do. He did that by His Resurrection. He defeated death.

“God through Christ” was able to rescue mankind because he alone was the trustworthy “servant” of his Father, (Acts 4:27, 30) willing to sacrifice his mortal human life for the ones he had helped to create. (Gen 1:26)

OK.

 

[Rightglory]

Since death is caused by sin, and newborn babies and infants can die, death has to be “organic”…like an inherited defect that is passed from parent to child, through no fault on the part of the child.…nor is it the intention of the parent to pass this death dealing inheritance onto their children….that is the way it is for now.

Sin caused the death of only one person, Adam. We do not sin in the same manner as Adam, Rom 5:14. We sin so easily because we are mortal. The sting of death is sin - I Cor 15:56. Death is organic, inherited, but sin is not. To be mortal is not sin. Which is why Jesus could take on our mortal natures. Babies are born mortal, but are not born sinners. Man becomes a sinner because he sins. This is why babies die, even fetuses, not because they sinned, but because they are mortal. In your understanding it would be impossible for babies to die because they are innocent, have not sinned.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Sin caused the death of only one person, Adam.

Since the Bible clearly states that death occurs through sin, we all die because of the sin in us. (Rom 5:12)

The word “sin” in Greek is actually used in archery, and means to “miss the mark”.....Adam’s children were all born with the defects of sin, which naturally leads to all manner of death. All mankind now “miss the mark” of the perfection that Adam and his wife first enjoyed......and inherited the imperfection that has blighted the human race ever since.

Paul wrote in Romans 7:14-20....
“For we know that the Law is spiritual, but I am fleshly, sold under sin. 15 For I do not understand what I am doing. For I do not practice what I wish, but I do what I hate. 16 However, if I do what I do not wish, I agree that the Law is fine. 17 But now I am no longer the one doing it, but it is the sin that resides in me. 18 For I know that in me, that is, in my flesh, there dwells nothing good; for I have the desire to do what is fine but not the ability to carry it out. 19 For I do not do the good that I wish, but the bad that I do not wish is what I practice. 20 If, then, I do what I do not wish, I am no longer the one carrying it out, but it is the sin dwelling in me.”

This is the struggle that all humanity deals with on a daily basis.....the only difference is with Christians, we know where this comes, from and how God can rectify it....and how to combat this condition we inherited.

Paul went on to say....Vs 21-25...
“I find, then, this law in my case: When I wish to do what is right, what is bad is present with me. 22 I really delight in the law of God according to the man I am within, 23 but I see in my body another law warring against the law of my mind and leading me captive to sin’s law that is in my body. 24 Miserable man that I am! Who will rescue me from the body undergoing this death? 25 Thanks to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So, then, with my mind I myself am a slave to God’s law, but with my flesh to sin’s law.”

And there you have it....

We do not sin in the same manner as Adam, Rom 5:14. We sin so easily because we are mortal.

Humans were created mortal, but were given the means in their mortal flesh to “live forever”. (The “tree of life” in the garden was freely accessible until they disobeyed. Gen 3:22-24)

Most people confuse the words “immortality” and “everlasting life” as if they were identical terms, but they are not.
Adam and his wife were designed by the Creator to enjoy unending life here on this lovingly prepared Earth...they were not immortal however, because an immortal being cannot die. If they were immortal, the death penalty attached to the command not to eat of the TKGE, would have been meaningless.
It was the devil who lied and said “you surely will not die”......the false doctrine of the immortal soul perpetuates that lie. Death is the opposite of life, not a continuation of it.

We do not sin because we are mortal, but because we inherited imperfection from our first parents, both of whom “missed the mark” of perfect obedience, and passed their defects onto us.

The sting of death is sin - I Cor 15:56. Death is organic, inherited, but sin is not. To be mortal is not sin. Which is why Jesus could take on our mortal natures. Babies are born mortal, but are not born sinners. Man becomes a sinner because he sins. This is why babies die, even fetuses, not because they sinned, but because they are mortal. In your understanding it would be impossible for babies to die because they are innocent, have not sinned.

I guess you cannot see the contradiction in your statement here.....
1 Cor 15:56...
“The sting producing death is sin”.....

You see, death is caused by sin, not the other way around.
Jesus was sent to become a sinless human, to pay the ransom demanded by God’s law...”an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth, a life for a life”. Only a perfect sinless life could pay for the one Adam lost for his children. Atonement is....one for one.

If you understand the laws of redemption given to Israel, it operated somewhat like a debt collector. If a man fell into debt and could not pay, he was put into the service of the creditor until the debt was paid. If he had family obligations, an older child could be used to service the debt in his father’s place.
Either way the creditor was not disadvantaged because as long as the debt was paid back in full, then that is all that mattered. But a benevolent relative or friend could pay the debt and free the debtor.

Jesus’ parable in Matt 18:23-35 gives us an idea of how impossible it was for any among sinful mankind to repay Adam’s debt. We all needed that benevolent friend to bail us out.

Jesus is called God’s “holy servant” (Acts 4:27, 30) and he willingly took his Father’s place as the redeemer of the human race because he was not an immortal. His God and Father “sent“ him to do what he could not, as the Almighty immortal Creator, he could never have been Adam’s equivalent. Only a sinless, mortal human could genuinely redeem Adam’s children. Jesus was born as a mortal human.....not a god/man.

All humans are “born in sin” because they inherit what causes death. (Psalm 51:5) All “miss the mark” of human perfection. That doesn’t mean that babies have to sin.....it means that the defect born into them, causes death....not necessarily any action on their part.

How many ways are there to die?......countless.....yet all have the same basic cause. SIN.

 

[Rightglory]

Since the Bible clearly states that death occurs through sin, we all die because of the sin in us. (Rom 5:12

Rom 5:12 says we sin through death. Man cannot die but once. Adam became mortal. Our sin does not make us more mortal. Our sin is relevant only in relation to our spiritual relationship with God which is not the issue here. Our sin may contribute when we die or how we die but the fact we die is the result of Adam's sin. Gen 3:19 clearly states man became mortal due to Adam's sin, not ours. Your view is what Pelagius believed and taught.

The word “sin” in Greek is actually used in archery, and means to “miss the mark”.....Adam’s children were all born with the defects of sin, which naturally leads to all manner of death. All mankind now “miss the mark” of the perfection that Adam and his wife first enjoyed......and inherited the imperfection that has blighted the human race ever since.

You are conflating physical death with spiritual death. We are discussing physical death, mortality. Adam's children, we, are born with ONE defect, mortality.

Paul wrote in Romans 7:14-20....
“For we know that the Law is spiritual, but I am fleshly, sold under sin. 15 For I do not understand what I am doing. For I do not practice what I wish, but I do what I hate. 16 However, if I do what I do not wish, I agree that the Law is fine. 17 But now I am no longer the one doing it, but it is the sin that resides in me. 18 For I know that in me, that is, in my flesh, there dwells nothing good; for I have the desire to do what is fine but not the ability to carry it out. 19 For I do not do the good that I wish, but the bad that I do not wish is what I practice. 20 If, then, I do what I do not wish, I am no longer the one carrying it out, but it is the sin dwelling in me.”

He is addressing the effects mortality has on our actions. Because we are mortal, our nature tends to control us. Which is why we need to fight daily against the pull of our human nature.

This is the struggle that all humanity deals with on a daily basis.....the only difference is with Christians, we know where this comes, from and how God can rectify it....and how to combat this condition we inherited.

You are not combating what we inherited, namely mortality. Only Christ can combat it which He did by His resurrection. What we are combating is the effects of being mortal. We sin easily because our human mortal nature controls us and we need to resist those effects.

Paul went on to say....Vs 21-25...
“I find, then, this law in my case: When I wish to do what is right, what is bad is present with me. 22 I really delight in the law of God according to the man I am within, 23 but I see in my body another law warring against the law of my mind and leading me captive to sin’s law that is in my body. 24 Miserable man that I am! Who will rescue me from the body undergoing this death? 25 Thanks to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So, then, with my mind I myself am a slave to God’s law, but with my flesh to sin’s law.”

And there you have it....


Humans were created mortal, but were given the means in their mortal flesh to “live forever”. (The “tree of life” in the garden was freely accessible until they disobeyed. Gen 3:22-24)

There is nothing in scripture that says man was created mortal. If he was, then God lied in Gen 3:19, Man would return to dust. The Tree was denied because God did not desire that our fallen natures would become immortal. Christ became that Tree of Life. By His death and resurrection He bestowed on the human race, as well as His entire creation Immortality.
God created man good. Man was given the opportunity to achieve either status, immortality or mortality depending on his relationship with God.

Most people confuse the words “immortality” and “everlasting life” as if they were identical terms, but they are not.
Adam and his wife were designed by the Creator to enjoy unending life here on this lovingly prepared Earth...they were not immortal however, because an immortal being cannot die. If they were immortal, the death penalty attached to the command not to eat of the TKGE, would have been meaningless.
It was the devil who lied and said “you surely will not die”......the false doctrine of the immortal soul perpetuates that lie. Death is the opposite of life, not a continuation of it.

Your view of man being created mortal is as meaningless as being created immortal. Man cannot become mortal twice, or more mortal.

We do not sin because we are mortal, but because we inherited imperfection from our first parents, both of whom “missed the mark” of perfect obedience, and passed their defects onto us.

That imperfection was mortality. I nor scriptural holds to the false doctrine of Augustine, where the idea of "Original Sin" was first spoken of.

I guess you cannot see the contradiction in your statement here.....
1 Cor 15:56...
“The sting producing death is sin”.....

Could you explain to me how a sting kills the bee. It is the bee that stings. The sting of death (bee) is sin. Verse 55 even tells you this is what it means.

You see, death is caused by sin, not the other way around.

Only for Adam. Our sin cannot cause us to become mortal. Our sin can effect our mortality by what we do. All our diseases will cause us to die, but not become more mortal. Our sin also separates us from God. Our mortality which has been conquered by
Christ is no longer a factor.

Jesus was sent to become a sinless human, to pay the ransom demanded by God’s law...”an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth, a life for a life”. Only a perfect sinless life could pay for the one Adam lost for his children. Atonement is....one for one.

If you understand the laws of redemption given to Israel, it operated somewhat like a debt collector. If a man fell into debt and could not pay, he was put into the service of the creditor until the debt was paid. If he had family obligations, an older child could be used to service the debt in his father’s place.
Either way the creditor was not disadvantaged because as long as the debt was paid back in full, then that is all that mattered. But a benevolent relative or friend could pay the debt and free the debtor.

Jesus’ parable in Matt 18:23-35 gives us an idea of how impossible it was for any among sinful mankind to repay Adam’s debt. We all needed that

You are going off course here by bringing in our spiritual nature. So far we have been addressing ONLY the primary purpose of Christ's redemptive plan. That primary purpose was defeating death so man and the world could have an eternal existence again, Heb 2:9, Heb 2:14-15. The second was his sacrifice for sin, so that we might be able to have a relationship with Him in this life in spite of sin. I John 2:2.
Christ did not remove our state of mortality in this life, neither did He remove sin from this world. Fighting sin became the test of our faith, keeping our relationship with Christ ongoing in this life

 

[face2face]

The fall of humanity is very controversial because it is about original sin. Adam and Eve were created innocent. I believe that God wanted them to have a free will to choose evil or good, unfortunately they chose evil. They bought the devils lie that they would be like God's knowing good from evil, Genesis 3:5.

You mean a serpent more cunning than all the creatures God had made, right? You can't force your false doctrine back into the text!

The fall of humanity began in heaven when God announced to the angels that he was going to create a race of humans that was going to be their superiors, Paul said that the saved would judge angels, 1 Corinthians 6:3. I believe that when Satan heard that, a rebellion started and there was war in heaven, Revelation 12:7.

Laughable exposition - so poor, in fact terrible!

The scripture says, "Woe to the inhabitors of the earth and of the sea! for the devil has come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knows that his time is short".

Book, chapter and verse please?

God allowed Satan to have access to Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden, as a test to see if they would choose good or evil. Satan and one third of the angels were cast out of heaven onto the earth, they are still here in the form of demons.

Wow this is shocking!

I can't read or respond to any more of this garb.

F2F

 

[Aunty Jane]

Rom 5:12 says we sin through death.

No it doesn’t.…death spread to all mankind because they all sinned. You have it back to front....
James 1:13-15...
“When under trial, let no one say: “I am being tried by God.” For with evil things God cannot be tried, nor does he himself try anyone. 14 But each one is tried by being drawn out and enticed by his own desire. 15 Then the desire, when it has become fertile, gives birth to sin; in turn sin, when it has been carried out, brings forth death.”

Do you see what leads to death....?
Desires are carnal, but they are not wrong as long as they in accord with God’s standards and will. Inappropriate desire should repel us if it is in opposition to God’s laws. But if we have an inappropriate desire as satan did, he did not dismiss it.....he let it grow until it became a sinful action and once the sinful action had been accomplished....death will follow for him and all whom he can deceive into falling for his lies.

Man cannot die but once.

So what is “the second death”?...”the lake of fire”?

Some resurrected ones will die twice after failing to remain faithful during the thousand year reign of Christ....they will be thrown into this figurative lake called “the second death”. (Rev20:13-15) and “death and hades” will be destroyed in this “lake” too.

I can think of a few who have died twice in the Bible accounts.....Jesus’ friend Lazarus, Jairus’ daughter, and the widow’s son whom Jesus raised from the dead....all had to die again because no human has ever lived forever. Those the apostles raised, likewise had to die a second time. So some apparently did die twice….and some will again.

Adam became mortal.

Adam was created mortal…..otherwise, the penalty in connection with the TKGE was pointless…..how could the death penalty be implemented to an immortal being? They were told that they would die, only if they ate from that tree which God had placed his own jurisdiction.…that was tantamount to stealing God’s personal property.
Adam’s actions unleashed a knowledge of evil into the world...the very thing God wanted to avoid. But once that ‘genie was out of the bottle, there was no putting it back…God used it as an object lesson.

Our sin does not make us more mortal.

Humans were never created “immortal” to begin with…..being created “mortal” didn’t mean that they had to die….only that they could, if they disobeyed. Death would only come through disobedience. No disobedience would have meant no death.
They had the opportunity to live forever in mortal flesh forever, but they disobeyed and lost that prospect, just as God said they would.

Our sin may contribute when we die or how we die but the fact we die is the result of Adam's sin. Gen 3:19 clearly states man became mortal due to Adam's sin, not ours.

Gen 3:19…”In the sweat of your face you will eat bread until you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken. For dust you are and to dust you will return.”

Created from the elements of the earth, “souls” can only exist if the necessary external means are provided to keep them alive.…food, water and oxygen. All living “souls” have blood in their veins and oxygen in their lungs, so unless these things were created for them, it was not possible for life to continue and to reproduce as God instructed.
Sin terminated a life that should have been endless. Even the longevity of those who lived before the flood indicates that human life was meant to be more than the 70 or 80 years we ended up with…..and only then if we were not cut down by illness or accident. Death is an enemy….one that was not meant to happen.

The “tree of life” was there in the garden to guarantee that human life would continue…as long as they obeyed God’s command they could partake of the tree of life and live forever. (Gen 3:2-24)

Your view is what Pelagius believed and taught.

A lot of what Pelagius taught was true…though not all.…Christendom does not teach the truth about anything at all. It is a complete departure from what Jesus taught....yet few can see it.

You are conflating physical death with spiritual death. We are discussing physical death, mortality. Adam's children, we, are born with ONE defect, mortality.

You are conflating everlasting life with immortality….these are not the same. Mortality and immortality are opposites. God created mortal beings who were given an environment where life would flourish and continue as long as they obeyed their Creator.
Spiritual death occurs when we pull away from God by abusing our free will…..knowing what is bad, but doing it anyway. Adam knew that his wife had disobeyed the only command there was that carried the death penalty…..so he had two choices….he could refuse the offer of the fruit and allow God to carry out the stated sentence, or he could throw his lot in with her….and die with her. We know what he chose to do and thereby sentenced all of his future children to death as the result of his sin….not hers.

He is addressing the effects mortality has on our actions. Because we are mortal, our nature tends to control us. Which is why we need to fight daily against the pull of our human nature.

Mortality has nothing to do with sin.....immortals cannot sin and cannot die.....Adam and his wife did both.
They did not become mortals when they sinned....they lost access to “the tree of life”, so that sin introduced death to the world.
“That is why, just as through one man sin entered into the world and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because they had all sinned.”
How is that difficult to understand.....you have the cart before the horse.

There is nothing in scripture that says man was created mortal.

The death penalty shows us that man was created mortal....immortals cannot die.
Even the angels are not immortal because the Scriptures tell us that they will be destroyed in “the lake of fire”.

 

[Aunty Jane]

If he was, then God lied in Gen 3:19, Man would return to dust. The Tree was denied because God did not desire that our fallen natures would become immortal.

As a mortal man, Adam was to “return to the dust”.....basically going back where he came from.....eliminated from existence as if he never existed. Jesus came to rescue Adam’s children....not Adam or his wife. Their sin was wilful and deliberate.....perfect beings do not make mistakes....they make decisions.

Christ became that Tree of Life. By His death and resurrection He bestowed on the human race, as well as His entire creation Immortality.
God created man good. Man was given the opportunity to achieve either status, immortality or mortality depending on his relationship with God.

I cannot find anything in Scripture that says anything like that. Where does it say “Christ became the tree of life”? If you go to the end of Revelation, you will see that “the trees of life” are not mentioned again until the coming of God’s kingdom.....they form the means by which the nations will be healed. (Rev 22:1-2)

That imperfection was mortality. I nor scriptural holds to the false doctrine of Augustine, where the idea of "Original Sin" was first spoken of.

“Original sin” as defined by the RCC is....
“....a sin which will be transmitted by propagation to all mankind, that is, by the transmission of a human nature deprived of original holiness and justice. And that is why original sin is called “sin” only in an analogical sense: it is a sin “contracted” and not “committed”—a state and not an act.”

I would basically agree with that statement, although sin can definitely also be an act, if it is a choice to commit sin.

So far we have been addressing ONLY the primary purpose of Christ's redemptive plan. That primary purpose was defeating death so man and the world could have an eternal existence again, Heb 2:9, Heb 2:14-15.

Actually the plan was from the Father, implemented through the son, and facilitated by the holy spirit.
But only one true God was involved in the planning....the one who, by means of his spirit, resurrected his son and brought about salvation for all those putting faith in his sacrifice.

The second was his sacrifice for sin, so that we might be able to have a relationship with Him in this life in spite of sin. I John 2:2.

Indeed....without the forgiveness of our sins now, who could stand before our judge?

Christ did not remove our state of mortality in this life, neither did He remove sin from this world.

That is true too.....our mortal state is permanent because we were created to be mortals.
Only a chosen “few” will attain to spirit life in heaven, ruling as “kings and priests” with Jesus who went there to “prepare a place” for them.....but not every Christian has the “heavenly calling” however. (Heb 3:1)

“Kings” need subjects over whom to rule, and sinners need “priests” who can intercede for them and guide them back to their original sinless perfection. There are two resurrections mentioned in the Bible...one for the ruling body of Christ, who are resurrected “first” (Rev 20:6);and a second or general resurrection for those who will live on earth (John 5:28-29) where God put us in the first place.

Fighting sin became the test of our faith, keeping our relationship with Christ ongoing in this life

Fighting sin is indeed a test of our faith, but it was a test we would never have needed if sin had not come into the world through three individuals who thought only of themselves. This life is to teach us the value of obedience to God in all things…..as exemplified by Jesus in the service of his Father .(Acts 4:27; 30)

 

[Rightglory]

No it doesn’t.…death spread to all mankind because they all sinned. You have it back to front....
James 1:13-15...
“When under trial, let no one say: “I am being tried by God.” For with evil things God cannot be tried, nor does he himself try anyone. 14 But each one is tried by being drawn out and enticed by his own desire. 15 Then the desire, when it has become fertile, gives birth to sin; in turn sin, when it has been carried out, brings forth death.”

Do you see what leads to death....?
Desires are carnal, but they are not wrong as long as they in accord with God’s standards and will. Inappropriate desire should repel us if it is in opposition to God’s laws. But if we have an inappropriate desire as satan did, he did not dismiss it.....he let it grow until it became a sinful action and once the sinful action had been accomplished....death will follow for him and all whom he can deceive into falling for his lies.

You are very confused. Your whole comment above has to do with spiritual death. Sin separates us from God - breaking of one's relationship, namely spiritual death. Which we do easily and often because of our mortality.
You need to study Pelagianism. It is a false teaching but it is exactly what you are stating. He believed that Adam's sin has nothing to do with the human race. He believed each person when they sinned became mortal.

So what is “the second death”?...”the lake of fire”?

Spiritual death, separation from God.

Some resurrected ones will die twice after failing to remain faithful during the thousand year reign of Christ....they will be thrown into this figurative lake called “the second death”. (Rev20:13-15) and “death and hades” will be destroyed in this “lake” too.

I can think of a few who have died twice in the Bible accounts.....Jesus’ friend Lazarus, Jairus’ daughter, and the widow’s son whom Jesus raised from the dead....all had to die again because no human has ever lived forever. Those the apostles raised, likewise had to die a second time. So some apparently did die twice….and some will again.

There have been exceptions,but that is not the rule. Do you know of any resurrections since Apostolic Times. Scripture says we die only once - Heb 9:27. We die once to rid this mortal body of its sin. When this body is raised in the last day, it will be raised to immortality and incorruption - I Cor 15:52-53.
And by the way - Christ's Kingdom is in existence now. That 1000 year reign is now.

Adam was created mortal…..otherwise, the penalty in connection with the TKGE was pointless…..how could the death penalty be implemented to an immortal being? They were told that they would die, only if they ate from that tree which God had placed his own jurisdiction.…that was tantamount to stealing God’s personal property.
Adam’s actions unleashed a knowledge of evil into the world...the very thing God wanted to avoid. But once that ‘genie was out of the bottle, there was no putting it back…God used it as an object lesson.

Humans were never created “immortal” to begin with…..being created “mortal” didn’t mean that they had to die….only that they could, if they disobeyed. Death would only come through disobedience. No disobedience would have meant no death.
They had the opportunity to live forever in mortal flesh forever, but they disobeyed and lost that prospect, just as God said they would

You have a very distorted view of the creation of man. Man was not created either mortal or immortal. Man had the opportunity, because of his freedom to achieve either one. God knew man would sin. God could not do otherwise in creating man to be able to communicate freely with God. But God also had a plan to redeem man which He implies in Gen 3:15. That plan was to send a redeemer, His Son into this world to redeem His Creation, Col 1:16-20. God did this by Jesus being born of Mary, took on our human natures in order to redeem them, to give them life, This is the message of Rom 5:18, the summary in I Cor 15:21-22 and elsewhere.

The rest of your post is entwinded with several false understandings and it would take a dissertation to correct them.
Do some study of very early Christian teachings in the first - third centuries, especially on the Incarnation of Christ. You might want to also read the small book written by St. Athanasius,, "On the Incarnation".

 

[Jericho]

The fall of humanity began in heaven when God announced to the angels that he was going to create a race of humans that was going to be their superiors, Paul said that the saved would judge angels, 1 Corinthians 6:3. I believe that when Satan heard that, a rebellion started and there was war in heaven

Some have speculated that Satan, before his fall, was put in charge over earth. After he fell, the earth was taken away from him and was given to us to have dominion over it. Satan has been trying to worm his way back ever since.