Who, or what, is the dreaded bogey man of prophecy?

[Timtofly]

According to Genesis 2:7 KJV, the fact remains that if the living soul comes into existence as a consequence of the union of the body and the Breath of Life, it cannot continue to exist at disunion of the same.

Then you will not like 2 Corinthians 5:1

"For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens."

Did you know that the Greek word translated dissolved here means to no longer be in union with? It means when the contract with your dead body is up, the soul immediately has a contract with eternal life. At least for those in Christ. Perhaps you should start excepting the fact all in Paradise since the thief on the Cross have had a physical body, since obviously they have been physically enjoying physical Paradise since then.

Their union with death ie this temporal physical body of death, was terminated at physical death. Their union with life and God's permanent incorruptible physical body began the next instant.

Those with eternal life and the second birth do not have to worry about a naked soul. Your point not mine when you at least got the union part understood.

Don't get stuck in OT terminology describing Abraham's bosom. Although they (the dead) seem to understand and know more about the afterlife than you do. Did Solomon die and bring back this status of life after death report, or just using blanket statements like your light bulb analogy? Certainly you both think you are making sense from human understanding.

 

[Timtofly]

We rely on Daniel to understand Revelation as much as we rely on Revelation to understand Daniel - this is a no-brainer for serious prophecy students.

You rely on your faulty interpretation of Daniel that extends to the Second Coming. Daniel "saw" the Messiah the Prince (Jesus Crist as King) as one event. Revelation explains that Jesus will be on the earth two times separated by a long interval. All we know from Daniel is past history, and that the Messiah part was fulfilled, Jerusalem destroyed. You have yet to prove one specific item in Revelation that needs Daniel's explanation.

Daniel does not explicitly define the Second Coming. Daniel does not even explicitly define the church. Daniel does not explain the church's involvement in history, and even when I stated the church was the mountain filling the earth, you balked at that interpretation. So you literally have no Church that Daniel defines explaining Revelation, yet many posters here think half of the symbolism in Revelation is about the church, ie the 144k, the 2 witnesses. Prove that Daniel explains the 144k or the 2 witnesses equals the church, while denying the church is the mountain filling the earth in Daniel 2.

Revelation explains Daniel by filling in the details, even using symbolism. Revelation explains that the image is past history, and all of the image is fallen and in the past.

Revelation 20 even explains how Christ will fill the entire earth as a kingdom, but you deny even that saying the earth is desolate and destroyed for a thousand years. You don't even use Daniel to explain Revelation 20. You make this blanket statement, then want me to recant, when I pointed out the opposite is true.

 

[Timtofly]

Then tell them who this entity whose number adds up to six hundred three score and six .
I mean everyone seems to be chasing after her unity judge not , lets be one false love lie . expose the ho
her doctrine of false love gotta GO .

Adam's fallen humanity represents the number just by being born of Adam. But God places the mark, after the 7th Trumpet, as an expiration stamp, because time for redemption is up after the 7th Trumpet starts to sound.

For 42 months there will only be two choices. Receive the expiration mark from God, or chop your head off. That is the only choice one will have. We don't get the mark now, because time is still ticking for redemption.

 

[Phoneman777]

The body returns to dust.

correct

The soul will eventually be given a body or tossed into the LOF.

No, a dead soul (a dead person once comprised of a Body and Breath of Life who has ceased to exist) will become a living soul again at "Second Life" by God breathing the Breath of Life into a body provided for them, either at the Resurrection of the Just or the Resurrection of the Damned.

Then, the wicked will be sentenced to the Second Death where they will suffer and then burn up and out of existence the moment God withdraws the Breath of Life from their sizzling Body.

"And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell."

Yes, man cannot destroy the Soul (whole person) - he can only cause the Soul (whole person) to temporarily "sleep the sleep of death"...because God will eventually awaken all Souls who have fallen asleep in either the one or the other of the two resurrections.

Only then, the Souls of those who refused to fear God will be destroyed in the Second Death which is permanent death, eternal death, everlasting death...a death from which there will be no resurrection.

English is full of parallels: Trinity is the same thing as Godhead.

No, the idea of "trinity" comes from catholicism and you don't get to redefine it in order to legitimize it.

Do you know what that is? Probably not...because total ignorance of catholicism's heresies is why so many of you esteem them to be so authoritative on salvation, death, eternal punishment, Sunday sacredness, not to mention esteeming Jesuit eschatology as superior to Protestant Historicism, when catholicism can't even correctly teach the simplest, most fundamental doctrine of Christianity: "salvation by grace through faith alone".

 

[Phoneman777]

The soul is not reliant on the body, but on God.

Genesis 2:7 KJV absolutely says the Soul comes into existence as a consequence of the union of the Body and the Breath of Life - no amount of theological mental gymnastics can change that:

Body + Breath of Life = Living Soul (Living Soul comes into existence)
Body - Breath of Life = Dead Soul (Living Soul goes out of existence)

You are not a light in a bulb. You are a soul that Paul clearly states can change bodies without dropping in and out of existence.

Let's keep the analogy of the Bulb, Electricity, and Light straight, shall we?

Body (Bulb) + Breath of Life (Electricity) = Living Soul (Light) comes into existence
Body (Bulb) - Berath of Life (Electricity) = Dead Soul (Light) goes out of existence

Is God's breath, literal air, or something much more like God, ie the Holy Spirit? You seem to have Hebrew all figured out, you even acknowledge a brain, but then fail in your interpretation ability.

Is life a tangible wiff of air, wind? Or is life God in you?

Both Hebrew and Greek scholars agree that "Breath of Life" aka "Spirit of Life" is God's "life giving principle that and animates man".

Bringing forth life from non-life makes God God, and the inability of the "gods" of this world to do so makes them "nothing, irrelevant, and abominable (Isaiah 41:24 KJV)

 

[Timtofly]

correct

No, a dead soul (a dead person once comprised of a Body and Breath of Life who has ceased to exist) will become a living soul again at "Second Life" by God breathing the Breath of Life into a body provided for them, either at the Resurrection of the Just or the Resurrection of the Damned.

Then, the wicked will be sentenced to the Second Death where they will suffer and then burn up and out of existence the moment God withdraws the Breath of Life from their sizzling Body.

Yes, man cannot destroy the Soul (whole person) - he can only cause the Soul (whole person) to temporarily "sleep the sleep of death"...because God will eventually awaken all Souls who have fallen asleep in either the one or the other of the two resurrections.

Only then, the Souls of those who refused to fear God will be destroyed in the Second Death which is permanent death, eternal death, everlasting death...a death from which there will be no resurrection.

No, the idea of "trinity" comes from catholicism and you don't get to redefine it in order to legitimize it.

Do you know what that is? Probably not...because total ignorance of catholicism's heresies is why so many of you esteem them to be so authoritative on salvation, death, eternal punishment, Sunday sacredness, not to mention esteeming Jesuit eschatology as superior to Protestant Historicism, when catholicism can't even correctly teach the simplest, most fundamental doctrine of Christianity: "salvation by grace through faith alone".

Those in Christ are not dead ever again. Do you not believe the Words of Jesus? John 11:23-26

"Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again. Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day. Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?"

Did Lazarus come forth to never die again, or did Lazarus hear Jesus but has yet to come out until the last day, the Cross, when the rest came out?

Jesus said those who believe shall never die, yet you say, they all do. They sleep or even cease to exist for thousands of years, yet Lazarus came out to never die again, along with all from Abraham's bosom, the instant Jesus said "It is finished " on the Cross. That was the last day resurrection, that Lazarus would have experienced, except Jesus called him out earlier than the rest to prove they would rise again, and never die again, period.

Do you think those literally coming out of Abraham's bosom ever decided to not believe that Jesus was the Christ?

Those coming out of Abraham's bosom fit these very words:

"And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die."

"Believest thou this?"

How can one get more alive than Lazarus or any one coming out of Abraham's bosom? Lazarus did not have to wait for your future event, and you criticize futurist?

So you don't use the word Trinity? Well most humans understand the Trinity describes God as being 3 distinct beings in one Godhead. If you reject the Trinity, then you reject the Godhead. And it is not like all go around using the word Godhead when Trinity works. People know what you mean in context.

Should I just start calling you an atheist, because you think those in Christ are still dead? Obviously that is what atheist declare and believe? Why do you get to go around accusing people of being catholics and Jesuit Futurist? I don't redefine the definition of Trinity. Look it up in a dictionary.

 

[Timtofly]

Body (Bulb) + Breath of Life (Electricity) = Living Soul (Light) comes into existence
Body (Bulb) - Berath of Life (Electricity) = Dead Soul (Light) goes out of existence

You can be a light bulb.

I will stick with being an eternal soul, waiting for my permanent incorruptible physical body, upon the dissolution of the contract with death, placed on my current corruptible body of death.

Yet you do not equate that electricity being symbolic of the Holy Spirit. Will we continue to always have the Holy Spirit in us forever?

 

[IndianaRob]

Those in Christ are not dead ever again. Do you not believe the Words of Jesus? John 11:23-26

"Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again. Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day. Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?"

Did Lazarus come forth to never die again, or did Lazarus hear Jesus but has yet to come out until the last day, the Cross, when the rest came out?

Jesus said those who believe shall never die, yet you say, they all do. They sleep or even cease to exist for thousands of years, yet Lazarus came out to never die again, along with all from Abraham's bosom, the instant Jesus said "It is finished " on the Cross. That was the last day resurrection, that Lazarus would have experienced, except Jesus called him out earlier than the rest to prove they would rise again, and never die again, period.

Do you think those literally coming out of Abraham's bosom ever decided to not believe that Jesus was the Christ?

Those coming out of Abraham's bosom fit these very words:

"And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die."

"Believest thou this?"

How can one get more alive than Lazarus or any one coming out of Abraham's bosom? Lazarus did not have to wait for your future event, and you criticize futurist?

So you don't use the word Trinity? Well most humans understand the Trinity describes God as being 3 distinct beings in one Godhead. If you reject the Trinity, then you reject the Godhead. And it is not like all go around using the word Godhead when Trinity works. People know what you mean in context.

Should I just start calling you an atheist, because you think those in Christ are still dead? Obviously that is what atheist declare and believe? Why do you get to go around accusing people of being catholics and Jesuit Futurist? I don't redefine the definition of Trinity. Look it up in a dictionary.

You are the first person I’ve ever ran into that understands John 11:23-26.

 

[Phoneman777]

Did you know that the Greek word translated dissolved here means to no longer be in union with?

Good gravy, man, that's what I've been telling you! The "union" of the Body and Breath is made then broken.

It means when the contract with your dead body is up, the soul immediately has a contract with eternal life. At least for those in Christ.

Nowhere does the verse specify "when" we don our immortal body. Moreover, "naked" and "unclothed" proves no "immediate eternal life after death" but a period we are without a body - dead in the grave.

Perhaps you should start excepting the fact all in Paradise since the thief on the Cross have had a physical body, since obviously they have been physically enjoying physical Paradise since then.

Paradise is UP - not DOWN. Jesus' soul was not left in "hell" aka "grave" which is DOWN. The thief, too, went down to the grave and now awaits the resurrected Jesus to resurrect him.

Their union with death ie this temporal physical body of death, was terminated at physical death. Their union with life and God's permanent incorruptible physical body began the next instant.

The "union" is the same "union" spoken of in Genesis 2:7 KJV - the union of the Body and the Breath of Life.

Those with eternal life and the second birth do not have to worry about a naked soul. Your point not mine when you at least got the union part understood.

Paul declares when "this mortal shall put on immortality"...at "the last trump" not at death, as you say.

Don't get stuck in OT terminology describing Abraham's bosom. Although they (the dead) seem to understand and know more about the afterlife than you do. Did Solomon die and bring back this status of life after death report, or just using blanket statements like your light bulb analogy? Certainly you both think you are making sense from human understanding.

Get it straight: "Abraham's bosom" can't be a "place" inhabited by souls because if we continue reading, we see that Lazarus is seen "in the bosom of Abraham" - the man's literal physiological bosom.

 

[Phoneman777]

Did Lazarus come forth to never die again, or did Lazarus hear Jesus but has yet to come out until the last day, the Cross, when the rest came out?

Since Paul says we don't put on "immortality" until "the last trump" we can safely conclude everyone except Jesus who were resurrected in Scripture were raised with mortal bodies - and Jesus said "never die" in reference to the "Second Death" - not the "sleep of death" prior to it from which all shall be awakened.

Jesus said those who believe shall never die, yet you say, they all do. They sleep or even cease to exist for thousands of years, yet Lazarus came out to never die again

Again, Jesus speaks of the Second Death - you guys continually put emphasis on the death God can handle blindfolded with His hands tied behind His back, and forget His real joy is saving from the Second Death.

along with all from Abraham's bosom, the instant Jesus said "It is finished " on the Cross. That was the last day resurrection, that Lazarus would have experienced, except Jesus called him out earlier than the rest to prove they would rise again, and never die again, period.

Abraham's bosom is not a geographical place in the Earth, because if you keep reading, you'll see that Lazarus is seen "in the bosom of Abraham" - the man's literal, physiological bosom.

Do you think those literally coming out of Abraham's bosom ever decided to not believe that Jesus was the Christ?
Those coming out of Abraham's bosom fit these very words:

No one is coming out of Abraham's bosom, unless you think all the righteous dead from Adam until the last saint go to a perpetual state of embrace in Abraham's literal, 100 mile wide, unseen bosom.

How can one get more alive than Lazarus or any one coming out of Abraham's bosom? Lazarus did not have to wait for your future event, and you criticize futurist?

Nowhere does it say Lazarus went to Abraham's bosom. In the fictitious, symbolic parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus, Lazarus is said to be "in the bosom of Abraham" which any thinking person immediately recognizes as symbolic, seeing that God's Bible only refers to the mortal "earthly house" body and the immortal "house not made with hands" resurrection body none of us get until "the last trump".

So you don't use the word Trinity? Well most humans understand the Trinity describes God as being 3 distinct beings in one Godhead. If you reject the Trinity, then you reject the Godhead. And it is not like all go around using the word Godhead when Trinity works. People know what you mean in context.

Sorry, but we don't get to redefine the catholic doctrine of "trinity" which is "one being, one God". Spurgeon says "it is the "bounden duty of every Christian to pray against (the papal) antichrist" - not cover for it.

Should I just start calling you an atheist, because you think those in Christ are still dead? Obviously that is what atheist declare and believe?

Since I know Christ arose Sunday morning with His glorified body - no.

Why do you get to go around accusing people of being catholics and Jesuit Futurist? I don't redefine the definition of Trinity. Look it up in a dictionary.

Because gross ignorance on the part of your guys is why you think the way you think! Your failure to accept the papacy as the prophesied antichrist is why you all embrace its false teachings:

• innate immortality of the soul
• eternal torment
• Sunday sacredness
• legitimized pagan Christmas
• legitimized pagan Lent ("40 days of this/that" which adorn Christian bookstore shelves)
• legitimized pagan Easter
• Bible = tradition (actually, the papacy says church tradition is "above the Bible")
• elevation of NT Critical Text over Textus Receptus
• distortion of relationship between Law and Grace
• embrace of Jesuit Futurism
• embrace of Jesuit Preterism
• rejection of Protestant Historicism

I mean, how much does one have to agree with catholicism before he ought to just up and join them?

 

[Phoneman777]

You can be a light bulb.

I will stick with being an eternal soul, waiting for my permanent incorruptible physical body, upon the dissolution of the contract with death, placed on my current corruptible body of death.

Yet you do not equate that electricity being symbolic of the Holy Spirit. Will we continue to always have the Holy Spirit in us forever?

I never said we were light bulbs, and your childish response indicates you have zero to say in refutation to what I think is a very appropriate, concise analogy.

You know full well that light won't keep on shining but you insist that Soul keeps on living, right?

 

[Timtofly]

Good gravy, man, that's what I've been telling you! The "union" of the Body and Breath is made then broken.

Nowhere does the verse specify "when" we don our immortal body. Moreover, "naked" and "unclothed" proves no "immediate eternal life after death" but a period we are without a body - dead in the grave.

Paradise is UP - not DOWN. Jesus' soul was not left in "hell" aka "grave" which is DOWN. The thief, too, went down to the grave and now awaits the resurrected Jesus to resurrect him.

The "union" is the same "union" spoken of in Genesis 2:7 KJV - the union of the Body and the Breath of Life.

Paul declares when "this mortal shall put on immortality"...at "the last trump" not at death, as you say.

Get it straight: "Abraham's bosom" can't be a "place" inhabited by souls because if we continue reading, we see that Lazarus is seen "in the bosom of Abraham" - the man's literal physiological bosom.

It is not the union of air nor the Holy Spirit with a physical body. It is you, the soul that has union with the body.

The body is not in union with the Holy Spirit as a body of death. Air does not have a union with the body.


So is the breath of God, just air, or the Holy Spirit?

You are a created being called a soul that has a body and a spirit from God.

Abraham's bosom was a name for a part of sheol that stopped holding souls at the Cross. No one goes to Abraham's bosom which was the grave. The redeemed go to Paradise which is a physical place with physical bodies able to eat from the physical tree of life.

The thief had a physical body in Paradise the day his soul left one body, and entered God's permanent incorruptible physical body. Paradise is up in heaven, and that is where the soul of the thief went to put on his permanent incorruptible physical body.

The rest of the OT redeemed that left Abraham's bosom before the thief physically died ascended to Paradise, Sunday morning, 3 days after the thief had already entered Paradise. They got their physical body, when Jesus declared it was finished. They came out of their graves before the thief physically died.

You are conflating two verses. Only those physically alive at the last trump get to experience the last trump change. Those currently in Paradise already have a physical body. Paul does not give any time we have to wait, because there is no time of waiting.

 

[Timtofly]

Because gross ignorance on the part of your guys is why you think the way you think! Your failure to accept the papacy as the prophesied antichrist is why you all embrace its false teachings:

• innate immortality of the soul
• eternal torment
• Sunday sacredness
• legitimized pagan Christmas
• legitimized pagan Lent ("40 days of this/that" which adorn Christian bookstore shelves)
• legitimized pagan Easter
• Bible = tradition (actually, the papacy says church tradition is "above the Bible")
• elevation of NT Critical Text over Textus Receptus
• distortion of relationship between Law and Grace
• embrace of Jesuit Futurism
• embrace of Jesuit Preterism
• rejection of Protestant Historicism

I mean, how much does one have to agree with catholicism before he ought to just up and join them?

So you are saying you are not a Christian? Just a papal hater?

Most Protestants are papal haters, but still Christians. You seem to call all Protestants just catholic agreeers.

Protestants are still under the Catholic catechism, but free of the papacy.

I am none of the above, and definitely not a Protestant Historicist, who stills has both feet planted in preterist ideology. You can deny your preterist roots, but most historist claim preterist eschatology more than future view of prophecy.

The term Protestant Historicism means catholicism to me. They follow most catholic church fathers.

 

[Timtofly]

I never said we were light bulbs, and your childish response indicates you have zero to say in refutation to what I think is a very appropriate, concise analogy.

You know full well that light won't keep on shining but you insist that Soul keeps on living, right?

Because God creates a permanent soul, not one that has to constantly be sustained by an outside power source.

Obviously without God, nothing would exist, but do you think God is analogous to electricity?

There is more physicality to the soul than light. Even God is called light, but God does not pop in and out of existence when a light bulb receives power. The soul is not the equivalent of light. God is the equivalent of light, if you are Scripturally honest. The soul is the image of the Holy Spirit.

The body is the image of a post resurrection Jesus. The spirit is the image of God, that is light. Your analogy is not exact.

And using the light bulb to prove the soul ceases to exist, fails. I have no clue what the Catholic church teaches to be honest. Never really wanted to.

 

[Phoneman777]

It is not the union of air nor the Holy Spirit with a physical body. It is you, the soul that has union with the body.

The body is not in union with the Holy Spirit as a body of death. Air does not have a union with the body.

The exact opposite of what Genesis 2:7 KJV says. "Air" refers to the "Breath" or "Spirit" of God, the "life giving principle which animates inanimate man".

So is the breath of God, just air, or the Holy Spirit?

I think we all know that the "Breath of Life" refers to the "Holy Spirit".

You are a created being called a soul that has a body and a spirit from God.

Close.
You are a created being called a "Soul" that's the "whole" made of two "parts" - the Body and Breath of Life.

Ever considered why we're told exactly to where the Body and Breath return at death - but not the Soul?
Souls can't "turn" or "return" anywhere because when the Body and Breath return, the Soul cannot but cease to exist.

Abraham's bosom was a name for a part of sheol that stopped holding souls at the Cross.

You keep dodging my point that "...by the angels into Abraham's Bosom" in verse 22 is qualified in the next verse by "...and Lazarus in the bosom of Abraham" which ain't geographical - but physiological.

No one goes to Abraham's bosom which was the grave.

Correct - Job says "the grave is mine house" while he waits for his "change to come" at the resurrection

The redeemed go to Paradise which is a physical place with physical bodies able to eat from the physical tree of life.

No, they wait in the grave - which is why Paul said he preferred to skip lying "naked" and "unclothed" and just go right to putting on his immortal body "at the last trump" and be present with the Lord.

The thief had a physical body in Paradise the day his soul left one body, and entered God's permanent incorruptible physical body.

Saying the "soul left the body" is as ludicrous as saying "the water left the H2O" - impossible.

Just as Water is comprised of its two parts - Hydrogen and Dioxide - so, too, the Soul is comprised of it's two parts - the Body and the Breath of Life.

Paradise is up in heaven, and that is where the soul of the thief went to put on his permanent incorruptible physical body.

According to what?
The Immortal Soul crowd needs to understand ancient texts contained no commas, and if you're gonna insert one, know that the Septuagint has the word "today" modified by the verb it precedes only about 50 times, but is modified by the verb it follows 170 times...almost 75 percent of the time!

No, "today" is being modified by "I say" - not "shalt thou be" - and the Immortal Soul crowd should at least have the decency to admit when it comes to the question of immortality, Luke 23:43 at the worst proves Conditional Immortality, and at best is merely neutral.

The rest of the OT redeemed that left Abraham's bosom before the thief physically died ascended to Paradise, Sunday morning, 3 days after the thief had already entered Paradise. They got their physical body, when Jesus declared it was finished. They came out of their graves before the thief physically died.

Are you presuming to redefine "many" as "all"? Does it say "all the bodies" or "many of the bodies"? If you're correct, why were only "many" saints risen?

You are conflating two verses. Only those physically alive at the last trump get to experience the last trump change. Those currently in Paradise already have a physical body. Paul does not give any time we have to wait, because there is no time of waiting.

Let's ask Job if you're correct:

Q. Where did Job expect to wait until his "change" to immortality happens?
A. "If I wait, the grave is mine house".

Q. What did Job expect to wake him from the "sleep of death"?
A. "Thou shalt call upon me, and I shall answer" - the same voice of the Son Jesus said wakes the dead.

Q. When did Job expect to be called?
A. "...until Thy wrath be past" which everyones knows is His endtime wrath poured out "without mixture".

So, the change ain't for only "those physically alive" but "all that are in the graves shall hear His voice".

 

[Phoneman777]

So you are saying you are not a Christian? Just a papal hater?

Not saying that.

Most Protestants are papal haters, but still Christians. You seem to call all Protestants just catholic agreeers.

Protestants are still under the Catholic catechism, but free of the papacy.

Beliefs define who we are. Your belief that everyone is still under catholic catechism says it all, friend.

I am none of the above, and definitely not a Protestant Historicist, who stills has both feet planted in preterist ideology. You can deny your preterist roots, but most historist claim preterist eschatology more than future view of prophecy.

Uh..........I don't think you realize Jesuit Preterism didn't exist until decades after Protestant Historicism identified the papacy as antichrist...right?

The very raison d'etre of Jesuit Futurism and Jesuit Preterism was to deflect accusations of antichrist away from the papacy, friend.

The term Protestant Historicism means catholicism to me. They follow most catholic church fathers.

I realize now I'm having a discussion with someone who knows very little about the Bible and nothing about history, church or otherwise. Sorry to have wasted our time.

 

[Phoneman777]

Because God creates a permanent soul, not one that has to constantly be sustained by an outside power source.

Where are you reading that??? God plainly says "the Soul that sinneth, it shall die" which must refer to the literal death of the soul because it's future tense - because when God speaks of spiritual death of a soul, He puts it in the present tense: "She that liveth in pleasure is dead while she liveth".

Therefore, since "The soul that sinneth, it shall die" therefore, the only thing "permanent" about souls is whether they exist for eternity in heaven or go out of existence and "be as though they had not been".

Obviously without God, nothing would exist, but do you think God is analogous to electricity?
There is more physicality to the soul than light. Even God is called light, but God does not pop in and out of existence when a light bulb receives power. The soul is not the equivalent of light. God is the equivalent of light, if you are Scripturally honest. The soul is the image of the Holy Spirit.

The body is the image of a post resurrection Jesus. The spirit is the image of God, that is light. Your analogy is not exact.

And using the light bulb to prove the soul ceases to exist, fails. I have no clue what the Catholic church teaches to be honest. Never really wanted to.

You're trying to delegitimize my analogy to escape answering the point it establishes by weakly arguing "God isn't merely electricity/light". Analogous arguments like mine by nature allow for such generalizations, so what you're imposing robs ability to make them, like demanding a rainbow be drawn using a #2 pencil.

This analogy shows how recklessly inconsistent the Immortal Soul crowd treats Genesis 2:7 KJV:
Bulb + Electricity = Light comes into existence
Body + Breath of Life = Soul comes into existence

Bulb - Electricity = Light goes out of existence
Body - Breath of Life = Soul continues to exist on another plane

How sad that the only "proof" for Immortal Soul doctrine is derived from uninterpreted parables and making literal clearly symbolic passages from the most symbolic book in Scripture.

 

[Brakelite]

BY GOLLY IT HAS NOT HIT THE SEVEN DAY ADVENTISTS

Oh, it has. There have been several of our theologians, leaders etc who have joined committees associated with ecumenical efforts, UN council of churches, even studied at Jesuit universities. They then attempt to convince members to do the same, or believe their new doctrines, it for the church itself to change her doctrines. Even the pastors in our churches, acting directly contrary to directives from the conference. (Our church is not a dictatorship.) None of the above has happened. Our church is still faithful to it's roots. Our policies are still biblical. Our doctrines still scriptural.

 

[Timtofly]

Are you presuming to redefine "many" as "all"? Does it say "all the bodies" or "many of the bodies"? If you're correct, why were only "many" saints risen?

Not all of the redeemed were in their graves in Jerusalem. Not all of the dead were given physical bodies.

Your argument is like saying the rapture is only going to happen to those in Jerusalem, and no where else in the world.

You have still not explained why or how the same soul would exist, not exist, but then exist later.

The souls were never in Paradise. Not because they did not exist, but because they were in a section of sheol, Jesus referred to as Abraham's bosom. What would your non existent soul need access to the tree of life for? A soul would not need access to the tree of life, but that is not proof they cease to exist.

You do realize that things changed because of the Cross, even though you call me ignorant and lacking knowledge? Why do you only acknowledge one particular human theology, as if you don't understand any other ones, but accept your pet protagonist, to constantly rail against?

 

[Timtofly]

Therefore, since "The soul that sinneth, it shall die" therefore, the only thing "permanent" about souls is whether they exist for eternity in heaven or go out of existence and "be as though they had not been".

Being separated from either the spirit or body is a state of death. Death is not the cessation of, but the absence or separation of one part of your life. The second death is the separation from God. Not non-existence. How can you experience separation if you do not exist to have that experience?

Now you have changed the dynamic. At first you stated the soul ceases to exist at physical death. I pointed out, no, the soul continues and the body returns to dust, unless humans preserve that body. The body you have now will cease to exist, not your soul.

Now you indicate a body and spirit, can exist, but the soul itself ceases to exist. You fail to see that people are physically cast into the LOF. Matthew 10:28

"And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell."

Jesus does not say the soul and body are killed. Jesus says they are destroyed, meaning that they do not cease to exist as you claim destroy means. If humans can kill the body, which causes it to cease to exist, but cannot kill the soul, how is removing the body via a human endeavor, cause the soul to cease to exist? Especially when Jesus said that cannot happen via a human.

You may say that God then causes the soul to cease to exist as an addition to human ability. But the same word is not used when God is doing the destruction. In fact you may say that then proves your point, because God only allows the body to cease to exist by human effort, and reserves Himself to cause both to cease to exist. That would be correct that God reserves that right, but does both happen in the grave? Not necessarily. A soul in sheol can exist, but the body cannot. A soul can cease to exist in sheol, but the verse does not say that it does, it just says only God can make that happen?. The point is not every human is killed by another human. Being killed is a natural part of life when the body itself can no longer sustain life. Jesus did not make the point humans cause all bodies to cease to exist, so why are you saying God causes that to happen, all the time? The point was to fear God, not humans. The point was not to say every soul and body ceases to exist at God's doing. Your point has been when the body ceases to exist, then so should the soul.

Scripture never places the soul in heaven without a physical body. That is only human assumption. The soul was in sheol, without a physical body (a body would not function within the earth), but you deny that Scriptural reference about Abraham's bosom given by Jesus, and declare, there is literally nothing going on in the grave, when the OT clearly pointed out the soul was in the grave, but had no knowledge of what was happening on the earth.

Hebrews 11 and 12 does point out the soul always existed while the physical body did not, because those in Paradise, post the Cross, do know what is going on, on the earth. Now that the soul was placed into a physical body, they are witnesses of the fact they were no longer dead, but made alive.

"Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses."

Those in the OT looked for and waited for that heavenly country and city, until the Cross, and the soul entered a physical body that was permanent to enjoy all Paradise had to offer. Now they are a witness to being made alive and can be a witness to what goes on, here on earth. Now a soul could immediately enter a permanent incorruptible physical body. That is why Paul wrote what he did. Not because he was comparing himself to the OT redeemed, still waiting in death.