Who, or what, is the dreaded bogey man of prophecy?

[Spiritual Israelite]

It's symbolism and most people understand that.

But, for some reason, you don't understand that prophetic beasts symbolize kingdoms.

Daniel 7:23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.

 

[tailgator]

I've said many times the horns mean the FP will be a king twice such as a peaceful kin g and then a war king.




The bible insists the FP is a single man because that is what a prophet is in the bible.




Not one single time is there two men ever described as teh second beast. His name or title is the false prophet. He is a singular person.




Nope. You don't understand anything about the false prophet. (not false prophetS)

Jesus said there are many false prophets who come in his name at the time of the end.

You say there is only one.

Mathew 24
9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.

10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.

11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.

12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.

13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved




Looks like you need to believe Jesus and stop arguing against his word.

 

[Timtofly]

If the Soul comes into existence as a consequence of the union of the Body and the Breath of Life - how can it continue to exist when this union is dissolved?

Ask that of those who think souls are currently naked in Paradise.

The soul changes bodies like people change clothes. That is how Paul described the process.

But a physical body in sheol? How does that work?

Those redeemed in Paradise, do have a permanent incorruptible physical body. That happens when the soul changes bodies.

 

[Timtofly]

Revelation doesn't tell us what "beasts" or "horns" represent...Daniel explains it, right or wrong?

Daniel says they fight.

John says they are all fallen.

What else is there to understand Daniel, who got us to the Reformation, but could not see clearly until the NT removed some of the blurriness?

The ten horns will not be known until after the Second Coming at the 6th Seal. Why would Satan come forward and prove all that the Bible says is true? The spiritual blindness will be removed at the 6th Seal. Then Satan will openly deceive people. The ten horns are not even mentioned until after the 7th Trumpet is mentioned. We will probably see them after the 6th Seal destruction, as that is when the baptism of fire happens, and Satan comes forward with ten leaders without kingdoms to "fix things".

 

[ewq1938]

Jesus said there are many false prophets who come in his name at the time of the end.

You say there is only one.

No, I didn't. I said Rev speaks of the second beast with two horns and later calls him a false prophet not false prophetS plural.. It's one person according to the bible not multiple people as you teach.

 

[tailgator]

No, I didn't. I said Rev speaks of the second beast with two horns and later calls him a false prophet not false prophetS plural.. It's one person according to the bible not multiple people as you teach.

That second beast with two horns is not a single man with two horns sticking out his head.

The second beast represents the king of the norths armed forces which is given to the first beast .

After the arrival of the second beast,the persecution of the saints in Israel begins.Not that you comprehend the tribulation of the saints or why they are imprisoned and killed,yet I will post these verses for others to know that these saints are being killed for their testimony and they do not worship the beast or recieve it's mark.

Daniel 11:33-35
Wise leaders will give instruction to many, but these teachers will die by fire and sword, or they will be jailed and robbed.

During these persecutions, little help will arrive, and many who join them will not be sincere

And some of the wise will fall victim to persecution. In this way, they will be refined and cleansed and made pure until the time of the end, for the appointed time is still to come.



Having no understanding of daniel 11 and it's counterpart revelation,you do not have any idea why these wise saints of God are being persecuted after the arrival of the armed forces..
You have no idea.


All four of these passages are about the same persecution which takes place after the Man of sin's armed forces arrive in Israel to support the beast.


Revelation 13:10
Anyone who is destined for prison will be taken to prison. Anyone destined to die by the sword will die by the sword. This means that God’s holy people must endure persecution patiently and remain faithful.
=
Daniel 11:33
Wise leaders will give instruction to many, but these teachers will die by fire and sword, or they will be jailed and robbed.
=
Revelation 14
12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.

 

[Brakelite]

I cannot understand why there is so much confusion about prophecy when Jesus said Daniel could be understood, and Revelation is exactly that, a revealing. Some of you guys, maybe all, aren't paying attention. You are guessing. The protestant adage, the Bible interprets itself, has been abandoned in favor of interpretations that support preconceived notions and cherished errors.

 

[Brakelite]

 

[ewq1938]

That second beast with two horns is not a single man with two horns sticking out his head.

Strawman fallacy. I stopped reading there because I won't let you waste my time.

 

[tailgator]

Strawman fallacy. I stopped reading there because I won't let you waste my time.

Stop watching Halloween movies.
There is no such man with two horns sticking out of his head.

You be better off believing in the scarecrow.

 

[Phoneman777]

Ask that of those who think souls are currently naked in Paradise.

Your answer does not address Genesis 2:7 KJV which says the Soul exists as a consequence of the union of the Body and Breath of Life.

The soul changes bodies like people change clothes. That is how Paul described the process.

Where? Paul only describes two kinds of bodies, the mortal body we have now and the resurrection body we get later (2 Corinthians 5 KJV) and that's the only two kinds of bodies God's Bible knows about.

Therefore, making the Rich Man/Lazarus a literal story depicting "disembodied souls" with bodies is both Biblically contradictory and an insult to intelligence: things can't be simultaneously disembodied and bodied!

But a physical body in sheol? How does that work?

"Sheol" means "grave" or "place of the dead" wear dead bodies are buried.

Those redeemed in Paradise, do have a permanent incorruptible physical body. That happens when the soul changes bodies.

There's no such thing as a "Soul body" - only the mortal "earthly house of this tabernacle" and the immortal "house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens".

See, you guys run right over "naked" and "unclothed" in 2 Corinthians 5 because stopping and figuring out how that fits into the picture leads to only one unwelcome conclusion: that Paul wanted to be absent from his mortal body, skip lying naked and unclothed, without a body, dead, in the grave, awaiting the resurrection, and just go on to be with the Lord in his resurrection body...and it's nothing short of total hermeneutical disaster to take Paul's preference, which he himself knew was not possible (according to verse 10), and attempt to establish the false idea that we go straight to heaven or hell at death before the Judgment.

On Sunday around 12 noon, plenty of Christians start looking at their watch, preferring to be "absent from the church pew and to be present at the Cracker Barrel" but does eliminate the drive in between? Neither does Paul's desire to be "absent from the body and to be present with the Lord" eliminate lying "naked/unclothed' wihtout a body until the resurrection.

 

[Phoneman777]

Daniel says they fight.

John says they are all fallen.

Don't you think a retraction is necessary?

You said "Revelation explains Daniel, Daniel doesn't explain Revelation".
I replied no where does Revelation explain what a beast or a horn is - only Daniel explicitly tells us.

Look, we expect sinners to be too proud to admit when they're wrong - the saints should be humble enough.

 

[Timtofly]

Your answer does not address Genesis 2:7 KJV which says the Soul exists as a consequence of the union of the Body and Breath of Life.

Where? Paul only describes two kinds of bodies, the mortal body we have now and the resurrection body we get later (2 Corinthians 5 KJV) and that's the only two kinds of bodies God's Bible knows about.

Therefore, making the Rich Man/Lazarus a literal story depicting "disembodied souls" with bodies is both Biblically contradictory and an insult to intelligence: things can't be simultaneously disembodied and bodied!

"Sheol" means "grave" or "place of the dead" wear dead bodies are buried.

There's no such thing as a "Soul body" - only the mortal "earthly house of this tabernacle" and the immortal "house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens".

See, you guys run right over "naked" and "unclothed" in 2 Corinthians 5 because stopping and figuring out how that fits into the picture leads to only one unwelcome conclusion: that Paul wanted to be absent from his mortal body, skip lying naked and unclothed, without a body, dead, in the grave, awaiting the resurrection, and just go on to be with the Lord in his resurrection body...and it's nothing short of total hermeneutical disaster to take Paul's preference, which he himself knew was not possible (according to verse 10), and attempt to establish the false idea that we go straight to heaven or hell at death before the Judgment.

On Sunday around 12 noon, plenty of Christians start looking at their watch, preferring to be "absent from the church pew and to be present at the Cracker Barrel" but does eliminate the drive in between? Neither does Paul's desire to be "absent from the body and to be present with the Lord" eliminate lying "naked/unclothed' wihtout a body until the resurrection.

Of course you don't exist prior to having a body and a spirit. But the spirit is not God's breath unless you can capture the spirit that you put on coming out of a literal physical mouth. Is God physical or a spirit and a light? Show me one verse where God is physical with a physical breath.

I am not denying the formation of the sons of God on the 6th day, per Adam's direct creation experience referenced in Genesis 2. Genesis 2:7 is the exact same event described in Genesis 1:26-27

Should you offer the definition of what God breathes means? Some call that inspiration, or the Holy Spirit settling on an OT prophet giving that prophet words to write on a scroll. Or in some cases the prophet speaks and a scribe writes the words down.

So God breathing is just the point of you coming into existence, as God does not give you a body, but the body comes from your parents. That is no different in Adam's case in Genesis 2, except that body given to Adam is the permanent incorruptible physical body you will receive once your soul leaves Adam's dead corruptible flesh. Adam lost that first permanent incorruptible physical body, when he physically died, and God put Adam into the physical body of death and corruption.

The instant Adam disobeyed, not the instant Eve ate the fruit, the soul physically and spiritually died. It was placed in a body of death, and the spirit went to be with God, as it could no longer be in the presence of sin. Adam's soul kept existing through this translation from life to death. Becoming a living soul is just that: you are a living soul, in a physical body, and will some day put on your spirit over that physical body. You have 3 parts, soul, body, and spirit, all seperate, just like the Trinity: God, Son, and Holy Spirit.

The soul and spirit can exist outside the body. You would understand that from God's Word, instead of listening to traditional human theology passed down from your sources of information throughout the last 1900 years.

Do you think the soul leaves existence and then returns again at a given time? How is that any different than soul sleep? One says the soul knows nothing, and the other says there is nothing, but then the soul returns for the judgment.

Paul indicated in 2 Corinthians 5:1 the soul of the redeemed has that day of redemption immediately as the soul exits the body of death and enters the body of life. Jesus said that after the Cross, those in Christ would never taste death. There is no end time single resurrection. For those of the second birth, redemption is an ongoing process. Redemption takes place immediately upon leaving death behind. Thus, the day of redemption for the thief was that day, as his soul left a body of death, and entered that body of life from God, immediately. He was physically in Paradise in a physical body.

Not some weird made up definition of existence. The body, all the sons of God received on the 6th day, is the physical body of God in Paradise. That is what redemption and restoration is about. Returning to Adam's original state prior to Adam's disobedience. The firstfruits were all the OT redeemed out of Abraham's bosom, including the thief on the Cross, and all have been physically enjoying Paradise, serving God day and night in that heavenly temple, seated with Christ in heavenly places. Paul points out; in Adam all were made dead. In Christ all are made alive. Those in Christ are not waiting like the OT in Abraham's bosom. Paradise was opened and no longer banned, because life had been restored to those in Christ.

 

[Timtofly]

Don't you think a retraction is necessary?

You said "Revelation explains Daniel, Daniel doesn't explain Revelation".
I replied no where does Revelation explain what a beast or a horn is - only Daniel explicitly tells us.

Look, we expect sinners to be too proud to admit when they're wrong - the saints should be humble enough.

Then you should state exactly who Daniel said. Daniel points out Nebuchadnezzar as the head of Gold, Babylon. Then Daniel mentions the Medes and Persians, and is still alive, when they are in power. Then Daniel mentions Grecia, because obviously those in Mesopotamia knew about the Greeks.

But no verse tells us Daniel knew about Rome.

It is Revelation that declares the first 5 have fallen, and the 6th kingdom had a mortal wound. Jesus was declared the 7th Kingdom at the 7th Trumpet. Satan is the 8th kingdom, if there is an 8th kingdom. Daniel does not explain Revelation, because Revelation never covers the image of Daniel 2, other than to say they don't exist in the time frame John is experiencing. Five fallen are exactly that: fallen and in the past. If you cannot see Daniel's image stopped existing at the Reformation, then you should not call yourself an historist. History declares the Roman Empire over. It was a new world dynamic with totally different nations emerging. England, the US, France, Spain, Portugal, the Netherlands. Then Germany, Russia, China, and Japan. India was always to the east of Babylon. India was never part of any thing mentioned in prophecy.

Revelation explains the relationship Satan as the dragon had with those 5 nations in Daniel 2. Revelation explains these empires arose throughout the history of mankind and one of the heads is wounded with a mortal wound and healed by Satan. Revelation explains that Satan is the 7th head, but the 8th kingdom. Revelation tells us Jesus is declared King at the 7th Trumpet, so the 7th Kingdom that will be eternal, but after 3 days, may be placed on hold for Satan's 42 months as the 8th kingdom. Revelation is explaining the Second Coming, which is clearly pronounced at the 6th Seal.

When you start force fitting Revelation into Daniel, is when you start having contradictions and issues, so you have to re-arrange Revelation to fit your dynamic.

 

[Phoneman777]

Of course you don't exist prior to having a body and a spirit.

Good, now please advise our Mormon friends ;)

But the spirit is not God's breath

"The SPIRIT of God hath made me and the BREATH of the Almighty hath given me life".

You sure about that?

Should you offer the definition of what God breathes means?

It means God's "life-giving principle" that animates the inanimate.

If God breathed His Breath of Life aka Spirit of Life into rocks, they could cry out in praise for Him.

So God breathing is just the point of you coming into existence, as God does not give you a body, but the body comes from your parents.

The only difference between the formation of Adam and the rest of us is the manner of arrangement of the elements required: Adam was, perhaps, a clay figure from head to toe that came alive while we slowly form in a womb.

These "doubtful disputations" cannot undo the truth of Genesis 2:7 KJV that the Soul exists only as a consequence of the union of the Body and Breath of Life and goes out of existence upon disunion of same.

The instant Adam disobeyed, not the instant Eve ate the fruit, the soul physically and spiritually died.

Wrong - "spiritual death" of the soul is put in the present tense ("she that liveth in pleasure is dead while she liveth") physical death of the Soul is future tense ("he that converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death").

See that? See that the Soul will suffer a future death unless he converts from sin?

It was placed in a body of death, and the spirit went to be with God, as it could no longer be in the presence of sin. Adam's soul kept existing through this translation from life to death.

Wrong - the Soul cannot exist unless there is union between the Body and the Breath of Life, according to Genesis 2:7 KJV, which are the two "parts" that make up the "whole". Scripture says when a person dies, they no longer know anything, feel anything, see anything, hear anything, do anything, praise anything, etc.

You guys teach the when a person dies, he's not "surely" dead - he continues to exist. That's what the serpent told Eve, right or wrong?

Becoming a living soul is just that: you are a living soul, in a physical body, and will some day put on your spirit over that physical body. You have 3 parts, soul, body, and spirit, all seperate, just like the Trinity: God, Son, and Holy Spirit.

I suggest you re-read Genesis 2:7 KJV which says the Living Soul comes into existence as a consequence of the union of the Body and the Breath of Life, and when the Breath of Life is removed, all creatures die - whether a saint, sinner, or animal.

The soul and spirit can exist outside the body.

Yes, the Spirit returns to God as It was when it issued forth to animate the inanimate...but belief that the Soul can exist outside the Body is a wrong conclusion derived from failure to see that "souls under the altar" is a symbolic element of the most symbolic book of Scripture.

Do you know how many times the Bible refers to an "immortal soul" or "never dying soul"? Not once.
Do you know how many times the Bible says souls die? Repeatedly.

You would understand that from God's Word, instead of listening to traditional human theology passed down from your sources of information throughout the last 1900 years.

Luther said "immortal soul" doctrine comes from "the Roman dunghill of decretals".

I always say that the "Immortal Soul/Eternal Torment" crowd has so much in common with the papacy, they ought to just throw up their hands and become catholics.

Do you think the soul leaves existence and then returns again at a given time?

Since the "soul" is "the whole creature" - no.

How is that any different than soul sleep? One says the soul knows nothing, and the other says there is nothing, but then the soul returns for the judgment.

God only considers the Second Death to be the ultimate "death" - because the First Death is merely a "sleep". Why? Because the dead will be resurrected from the First Death to either eternal life when Jesus comes or resurrected 1,000 years later where they'll be condemned to die the Second Death in the Lake of Fire which will be eternal death, everlasting death...a death from which there will be no resurrection.

Paul indicated in 2 Corinthians 5:1 the soul of the redeemed has that day of redemption immediately as the soul exits the body of death and enters the body of life. Jesus said that after the Cross, those in Christ would never taste death. There is no end time single resurrection. For those of the second birth, redemption is an ongoing process. Redemption takes place immediately upon leaving death behind. Thus, the day of redemption for the thief was that day, as his soul left a body of death, and entered that body of life from God, immediately. He was physically in Paradise in a physical body.

You're seeing what isn't there. Verse 1 simply says if the mortal body dissolves, there's an immortal body prepared for us with no mention of "when" we get it in verse 1.

The Immortal Soul crowd uses "absent from body/present with Lord" to support their ideas because they refuse to factor in the meaning of "naked" and "unclothed" - because there's only ONE conclusion that can be drawn: when the mortal body dissolves, we lie "naked" and "unclothed" in the grave, dead, without a body, awaiting the resurrection which at that time we put on the immortal body.

Paul simply says he prefers to be absent from the mortal body - skip lying naked and unclothed without a body in the grave, dead, awaiting the resurrection - and simply go on to be with the Lord in his resurrection body, and who could blame him for wanting that...but personal preferences don't deny Biblical reality, and neither does Paul who admitted in verse 10 that none of us will be present with the Lord until we "appear before the judgment seat of Christ" which happens at the end of time - not at death.

The firstfruits were all the OT redeemed out of Abraham's bosom, including the thief on the Cross, and all have been physically enjoying Paradise, serving God day and night in that heavenly temple, seated with Christ in heavenly places.

What a vivid imagination you have, seeing that none of this is in Scripture. It says "many" of the bodies of the saints which slept"...not "ALL" of them. If all the OT saints went to heaven when Jesus died, Peter would not have said David is still in his tomb.

Paul points out; in Adam all were made dead. In Christ all are made alive. Those in Christ are not waiting like the OT in Abraham's bosom. Paradise was opened and no longer banned, because life had been restored to those in Christ.

None of that is in Scripture. Paradise can be proven from Scripture to be located up in heaven, not down in the Earth.

 

[Phoneman777]

Then you should state exactly who Daniel said. Daniel points out Nebuchadnezzar as the head of Gold, Babylon. Then Daniel mentions the Medes and Persians, and is still alive, when they are in power. Then Daniel mentions Grecia, because obviously those in Mesopotamia knew about the Greeks.

But no verse tells us Daniel knew about Rome.

It is Revelation that declares the first 5 have fallen, and the 6th kingdom had a mortal wound. Jesus was declared the 7th Kingdom at the 7th Trumpet. Satan is the 8th kingdom, if there is an 8th kingdom. Daniel does not explain Revelation, because Revelation never covers the image of Daniel 2, other than to say they don't exist in the time frame John is experiencing. Five fallen are exactly that: fallen and in the past. If you cannot see Daniel's image stopped existing at the Reformation, then you should not call yourself an historist. History declares the Roman Empire over. It was a new world dynamic with totally different nations emerging. England, the US, France, Spain, Portugal, the Netherlands. Then Germany, Russia, China, and Japan. India was always to the east of Babylon. India was never part of any thing mentioned in prophecy.

Revelation explains the relationship Satan as the dragon had with those 5 nations in Daniel 2. Revelation explains these empires arose throughout the history of mankind and one of the heads is wounded with a mortal wound and healed by Satan. Revelation explains that Satan is the 7th head, but the 8th kingdom. Revelation tells us Jesus is declared King at the 7th Trumpet, so the 7th Kingdom that will be eternal, but after 3 days, may be placed on hold for Satan's 42 months as the 8th kingdom. Revelation is explaining the Second Coming, which is clearly pronounced at the 6th Seal.

When you start force fitting Revelation into Daniel, is when you start having contradictions and issues, so you have to re-arrange Revelation to fit your dynamic.

I've shown you that Daniel explains what Revelation's horns and beasts symbols mean. Are you retracting your claim that Revelation explains Daniel, not the other way around??

 

[Timtofly]

"The SPIRIT of God hath made me and the BREATH of the Almighty hath given me life".

That verse explains God. It does not describe who you are.

Did you make yourself? No, so that Spirit is the Holy Spirit. Are you the breath of God? No, so that breath is just God, not you.

The second death is still not the cessation of the soul. It is the soul existing in the LOF.

The soul was not in the tomb. David was in Paradise with a new body, and his old body was returning to dust.

You still have not admitted how a soul pops into and out of existence. That is a vivid imagination, not something you read in the Bible.

You claim the soul does what or kept where in between existence "a" in your alleged non existence, and existence "b"?

You guys teach the when a person dies, he's not "surely" dead - he continues to exist. That's what the serpent told Eve, right or wrong?

That was what God said would happen to Adam when Adam disobeyed.

Why are you equating the result with Satan's deception?

Adam did physically die. His original body was taken away. It would be given back like your soul popping in and out of existence. God preparing a body for you is found in Scripture. 2 Corinthians 5:2. But another soul is not found any where but your imagination.

Adam was the soul, and he was placed in a temporal body that was now corruptible. Adam had 2 bodies made exclusively by God, and the same soul was placed in the second body.

I don't think there was a dust image, by the way, that you allege became animated. I think it was instantaneous and happened altogether in a blink of an eye. Eve was not even created at the same time or point of reference. But she physically died the same instant Adam did, because she was taken from Adam and joined together in marriage. The death was not that they physically stopped existing. The death was being placed into what people call a mortal body. They were now living out death, every second of the day. So to keep from living in death and sin forever, they were banned from the tree of life, and from the Garden/Paradise. Then after 900 years God allowed that body of death to physically stop existing, and return to dust. Had they had their original bodies, and never disobeyed God, they would look the same today as they did when they were created.

God said they would die, the end of physical life and spiritual life. They lost both, the permanent incorruptible physical body, and they lost their spirit. The body was permanent. What happened to that permanent incorruptible physical body was never mentioned. But their corruptible body returned to the dust. If Adam ever repented and turned to God after the example set by Enoch who was translated, then Adam at the Cross would have been given back that permanent incorruptible physical body.

We are never told the rest of Adam and Eve's story. And what Peter said about David's body in a tomb is not the rest of the story either. It is the story the religious Jews understood. But David was a soul in a totally different permanent and incorruptible physical body at the Cross and ascended to heaven, and no one witnessed that, because they had all fled and were still looking for Jesus to return. Mary was the first and only one to see Jesus before He ascended, and they were alone, so Jesus went to gather the OT redeemed who had resurrected and ascended with them as they were the firstfruits of the Cross and His current mission to present them to the Lord God as Paul said in 1 Corinthians 15.

Why do you twist what people post and give them thoughts that only you make up?

The soul was what waited in Abraham's bosom, which is the direct words of Jesus. Argue with God if you don't understand Abraham's bosom.

The body did not wait in Abraham's bosom. That body returned to dust. The spirit did not wait in Abraham's bosom. The spirits of all the redeemed exist around the throne of God. They are mentined in Kings and Chronicles in the OT. Your spirit is not air like a ghost imagined by human thought. Jesus showed what a spirit was on the mount of Transfiguration. Go figure it out in the verse that shows what Jesus showed was His spirit. The only part of a human that waited in Abraham's bosom was the soul.

Now you say there is no sheol, but only a hole in the ground or the side of a hill, something physical. Yet the soul is neither physical nor spiritual as in your body and spirit. So saying there is a non physical place in the heart of the earth where a non physical soul waits is not that much stranger than saying electrons and protons exist spinning inside of matter, is the non physical make up of any physical part of creation. Or the software is just code, non physical even though seen as letters on a page in a physical hardware computer. The letters are not really physical. The pixels that come together to form them are hardly physical, but they change the view on a physical glass giving a physical presence of billions of human thoughts, by the ability to put letters together in an understandable way. Unless people blatantly twist one words to make them say something totally different. Those same letters are translated into open and closed states in the hardware of a computer, acting as very fast computations allowing virtual images on a screen. Or they control large physical objects.

Why could God not have brought into existence a soul that is way more complicated and even harder to understand than protons and electrons or computer software? Why would it be hard for God to sustain that soul even outside of a body?

You see, when Scripture says the soul will die, as ceasing to exist; even though Scripture states the soul waits in sheol.

I see the same death as no longer having a body and spirit. That is why the soul waits in sheol. Even living people on earth are referred to as the dead. Jesus said let the dead bury the dead. Jesus is saying living people are dead because the soul is in a dead body, and they bury the dead, not out of preserving the body, but remembering the soul. The soul was dead in life and still dead in physical death.

So the only way a soul can be made alive is in God's permanent incorruptible physical body. At least then it is physically alive if not spiritually alive by putting on the spirit.

I say all the OT redeemed were made alive and the soul left Abraham's bosom, not back into a body of death, but the permanent incorruptible physical body of life. Many were found in Jerusalem, not all of them. They were all over the earth where they were remembered as having entered sheol and Abraham's bosom. In Christ they were made alive as the firstfruits of the Cross.

 

[Timtofly]

I suggest you re-read Genesis 2:7 KJV which says the Living Soul comes into existence as a consequence of the union of the Body and the Breath of Life

I suggest you not add your own opinion to Scripture. "As the consequence of a union" is your own added opinion.

Man became a living soul is how God created mankind as a soul inside the physical body. Mankind would still exist even in a dead body, but the soul is still physically dead inside that dead body, or outside of that dead body. The only time the soul gains life back, physically, is inside a living permanent incorruptible physical body.

 

[Timtofly]

I've shown you that Daniel explains what Revelation's horns and beasts symbols mean. Are you retracting your claim that Revelation explains Daniel, not the other way around??

No, Daniel explains what the first 5 Kingdoms are. Revelation states those 5 kingdoms are fallen, dead and gone. Those ten horns appear as humans after the Second Coming. Daniel gives us only 5 heads of the dragon/sea beast/scarlet colored beast. Those 5 heads stopped existing at the Reformation. You know the definition of death you give the soul, non-existence? It applies more so to Daniel's image and any subsequent beast in Daniel. They are all dead, non existent even today, as it has been 500 years since the Reformation. We have been in the mortally wounded, ie dead, ie non-existent 6th kingdom. Kingdoms don't have souls, so they are literally dead when they die. Even in prophetic terms, death is still non existence, for visions of beasts that have come and gone. John said they were fallen, all 5.

Are there still Medes and Persians around? Probably, but not their empire. Are there Greeks around today? Sure, but not their ancient empire. Same with the Romans and the ten papal states of the Holy Roman Empire. People have evolved and changed borders, but those Kingdoms are dead and gone.

 

[Phoneman777]

That verse explains God. It does not describe who you are.

That verse I quoted:

"The Spirit of God hath made me, and the Breath of the Almighty hath given me life."

...disproves your claim that "the Spirit is not God's Breath".