Why are the martyrs under heavens altar so eager to see justice for their killers?

[ThePuffyBlob]

They said, 'How long' they must have been waiting for such a long, long, long time and wonder just how long God will take to fulfill His promises.

 

[Wick Stick]

They said, 'How long' they must have been waiting for such a long, long, long time and wonder just how long God will take to fulfill His promises.

The first one there was Abel, so yeah a pretty long time...

 

[Nancy]

I think reading a little further provides an answer.

17. Do not gloat when your enemy falls;
when they stumble, do not let your heart rejoice,
18 or the Lord will see and disapprove
and turn his wrath away from them.

19 Do not fret because of evildoers
or be envious of the wicked,
20 for the evildoer has no future hope,
and the lamp of the wicked will be snuffed out.

Thank you for the reply but, I was essentially asking why because of the verses you quoted. They are in heaven! Is heaven not good enough for them? Why would they care about earthly things while with God.
Thanks!

 

[Lambano]

Came to realize that judgment is righteous.....justice is a righteous thing

I agree with Lizbeth. The concepts of "Righteousness" and "Justice" are intertwined.

δικαιοσύνη (dikaiosýnē): Righteousness, but also (quoting from Strong's lexicon), "in a narrower sense, justice or the virtue which gives each his due".

Part of "righteousness" is to yearn for "justice", where the innocent are rescued and the evil-doers are punished. To make things right. But one of my takeaways from the Narnia stories is that forgiveness may be the "deeper magic". The greater righteousness. The way to make things right.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

These were people who were killed during the tribulation period. Evil is at an all time high on earth. It is like it was before the flood. Only there are more than 8 just people on the earth.

They are asking for God to do what he promised. To put an end to it.. They and their loved ones have suffered greatly (they did not take the mark)

Many believe they did not have their robes yet and others did because they were nt part of the rapture.. They died after that event. And are waiting for the rest to be saved after the tribulation before Christ returns to save them.

There is paradise and there is Hades. Those are the two resting places. There is no third Jesus took paradies up to heaven with him, these people will be there on this great day when Jesus opens the scrolls. Which is him pouring his wrath out o the earth,

 

[Taken]

Why are the martyrs under heavens altar so eager to see justice for their killers?


Rev 6:
[9] And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
[10] And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
[11] And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

My perspective -
Facts…

* Presently, men CAN VOW their bodily LIFE unto the Lord God (called Crucified with Jesus)

* Presently such a man who has VOWED his bodily LIFE unto the Lord God…Upon his Physical Death…his living soul, his quickened spirit immediately departs his physically dead body and rises UP to Heaven.

* Martyrs’ DURING the Tribulations (sent down from Heaven)…ARE willingly giving up their physical bodily LIFE thus effecting the GAIN of a saved soul and quickened spirit…

* FOR…(such individuals) Having chosen TO: BELIEVE THE GOSPEL OF JESUS…and willingly GIVE their bodily LIFE FOR the Belief in the Gospel of JESUS.

* YET…obviously NOT KNOWN TO THEM (those departed living souls)…they DO NOT “singularly” soul by individual soul, immediately rise UP to Heaven.

* WHEN it IS revealed there ARE departed (Saved) Living souls under the ALTAR…

* WHO KNOWS WHY they have not RISEN UP to Heaven? No one.

* WHO KNOWS…”IF”…or…”WHEN” those departed living souls under the altar…”WILL” rise UP to Heaven? No one.

* WHEN the Living souls Under the Altar themselves ASK about rising UP to Heaven…
WHO NOW KNOWS…”WHEN”, “WHICH souls” and “IN WHAT MANNER”…those saved departed souls SHALL rise up to Heaven? Everyone.

WHEN…after ALL who shall be martyred…ARE martyred.

WHICH souls…Saved souls OF…Gentiles (fellow servants) AND Jews (brethren).

IN WHAT Manner…After the Last martyred, by the Power of God.

WHAT prophecy does this fulfill…?

1 Thes 4:
[14] For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

God Bless you Nancy.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Nancy]

Thank you everyone who replied. There are many different thoughts about this "mystery". I only really wanted to understand why they were given white robes but still have to stay under the alter and, why they still had revenge in them. They were being impatient for their retribution had not come yet.
Some say these are tribulation saints but I also see some say they are the OT martyrs. Maybe one to set aside as this is just curiosity.
Thank you brothers and sisters!

 

[BlessedPeace]

Thank you for the reply but, I was essentially asking why because of the verses you quoted. They are in heaven! Is heaven not good enough for them? Why would they care about earthly things while with God.
Thanks!

You're welcome.
What makes you think that refers to those in Heaven?

 

[Taken]

Thank you everyone who replied. There are many different thoughts about this "mystery". I only really wanted to understand why they were given white robes but still have to stay under the alter and, why they still had revenge in them. They were being impatient for their retribution had not come yet.
Some say these are tribulation saints but I also see some say they are the OT martyrs. Maybe one to set aside as this is just curiosity.
Thank you brothers and sisters!

These, believing, (DURING the Tribulation sent down from Heaven)…did not JOIN Christ’s Church…nor were RAISED UP by the command of the Lord, unto His Archangel to summon Up Christ Church…(aka those IN Christ)….

Which BTW ^^ that IS the historical protocol regarding a Jewish Bride, to prepare herself, be ready, for any time the Groom sends his Servant before him to summon the Bride to leave her fathers house and go to her Groom.


YET…those who bodily DIE, believing (without having MADE a Confession of Belief)…
SCRIPTURE REVEALS…”God” searches the “hearts” of all men… Any “heartful” believing man (at the time of his physical death) WHO believes IN the Lord God…SHALL be saved.

And IFY…it is the heart of man, where the natural spirit of man is; which is a man’s TRUTH, (regardless of his minds thoughts), and WHY God Searches the Heart.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Wick Stick]

I agree with Lizbeth. The concepts of "Righteousness" and "Justice" are intertwined.

δικαιοσύνη (dikaiosýnē): Righteousness, but also (quoting from Strong's lexicon), "in a narrower sense, justice or the virtue which gives each his due".

Part of "righteousness" is to yearn for "justice", where the innocent are rescued and the evil-doers are punished. To make things right. But one of my takeaways from the Narnia stories is that forgiveness may be the "deeper magic". The greater righteousness. The way to make things right.

They're more than intertwined, they're the same word. Well, if you're using the King James version, anyway. In Greek AND Hebrew.

 

[Nancy]

You're welcome.
What makes you think that refers to those in Heaven?

Revelation 6:9-11. It is right after Jesus opens the 5th seal. It is the alter in heaven.

 

[PGS11]

They don't want revenge they want Justice they were murdered.Justice belongs to God and will be served in everything not one person will escape it.The souls of the murder victims have always cried out for Justice and Justice will be served for everyone of these souls martyrs or not.Why do you have a problem with them crying out for Justice.Revenge has nothing to do with it.

 

[BlessedPeace]

Revelation 6:9-11. It is right after Jesus opens the 5th seal. It is the alter in heaven.

I don't see the relationship. Which is not to say you are wrong. I just don't get the corrolary.

9 When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God and the testimony they had maintained. 10 They called out in a loud voice, “How long, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, until you judge the inhabitants of the earth and avenge our blood?” 11 Then each of them was given a white robe, and they were told to wait a little longer, until the full number of their fellow servants, their brothers and sisters,[e] were killed just as they had been.

 

[Nancy]

I don't see the relationship. Which is not to say you are wrong. I just don't get the corrolary.

9 When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God and the testimony they had maintained. 10 They called out in a loud voice, “How long, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, until you judge the inhabitants of the earth and avenge our blood?” 11 Then each of them was given a white robe, and they were told to wait a little longer, until the full number of their fellow servants, their brothers and sisters,[e] were killed just as they had been.

Don't get what you are saying, you asked why I thought they were in heaven and I gave you the verses.

 

[strepho]

Hello sister.

Romans chapter 12:19

Avenge not yourselves, beloved, but give place unto the wrath of God: for it is written, Vengeance belongs to unto Me; I will recompense , says the Lord.

No gets away with anything.

Righteous get rewards. Eternal life.

Wicked have place in sheol. Its holding place for the spirtualty dead or wicked until judgement day.
Luke chapter 16

Jesus tells us about paradise and sheol.

There's Gulf separating both sides.

Righteous in paradise.
Wicked are in sheol.

Psalm chapter 19:17

The wicked shall go to sheol.

Proverbs chapter 15

The way of the wicked is a abomination to the Lord. But he loves him who pursues righteousness.

15:24

The path of life leads upward for the prudent . That he may turn away from sheol.

Psalm chapter 55

Wicked go to sheol.

Wicked are habitual sinners. They won't repent, and conform to God's standard.

2 Esdras chapter 7:36 to 7:105 .


Disobedience people go to sheol.

Obedience, servants of God, go to paradise.

7:36. Second esdras.



Then pit of torment shall appear, and opposite it shall be place of rest. And the furnace of hell shall be disclosed, and opposite is the side of Paradise of delight.

Sheol is hell. It's holding place for the wicked until judgement day.

Those who repent, and love and serve God are in paradise.

7:47

And now I see that the world to come will bring delight to few, but Torment to many.

Wicked will pay for their evil.
Torment is.
Fear
Shame
Disgrace
Aniexty

Truth is. Many people will end up in sheol.

3 qualifiers for hell.
Hating God
Hating Christians
Despising God's laws.

7:79

And if it is one of those who have shown scorn, and have not kept the way of the most High, and who despised his law, and hated those who fear God.

The wicked go to pit of torment.
Called hell or sheol.

On judgement day. The hammer will come down the wicked.
They have date with lake of fire.

Wicked get away with nothing.

Vengeance belongs to Jesus !!,

 

[amigo de christo]

Metaphor or not, this verse always made me wonder why these martyrs cried out all the time to God to venge their deaths. You would think that heaven would be so much better. I could understand them wanting to see vengeance for ALL people but just their own selves?

Either way, it seems contrary to Proverbs 24:17 "Do not rejoice when your enemy falls, and let not your heart be glad when he stumbles". And we are to love our enemies now, after the cross.

Anybody here ever study this much? Would love some input.

It seems contrary but its not dear sister .
Go to and learn the biblical pattern well .
You will see that we are not to rejoice when our enemy falls .
These souls are already passed on and the souls getting destroyed were never going to repent .
What did the prophet say , LORD did not i not make intercession to you FOR THEM
and did i not do good to them and pray and etc for them .
But now they reward my good for evil , Reward them according to their works .
NOTICE paul says that too .
HE had did all to try and convert that copper smith but he had greatly withstood their words .
THE LORD REWARD HIM ACCORDING TO HIS WORKS . aint anything contrary in that bible .
BUT i sure can see why this part might seem contrary .
For us we gonna stay in prayer while still in earthen bodies for our enenmies to repent so as they wont be destroyed .
What we do after we die , WELL we might be one of them under that alter saying avenge our blood .
BUT we will already have been killed . SO that will be when that is .
FOR NOW keep praying forgiveness for those who persecute us .

 

[Marvelloustime]

It seems contrary but its not dear sister .
Go to and learn the biblical pattern well .
You will see that we are not to rejoice when our enemy falls .
These souls are already passed on and the souls getting destroyed were never going to repent .
What did the prophet say , LORD did not i not make intercession to you FOR THEM
and did i not do good to them and pray and etc for them .
But now they reward my good for evil , Reward them according to their works .
NOTICE paul says that too .
HE had did all to try and convert that copper smith but he had greatly withstood their words .
THE LORD REWARD HIM ACCORDING TO HIS WORKS . aint anything contrary in that bible .
BUT i sure can see why this part might seem contrary .
For us we gonna stay in prayer while still in earthen bodies for our enenmies to repent so as they wont be destroyed .
What we do after we die , WELL we might be one of them under that alter saying avenge our blood .
BUT we will already have been killed . SO that will be when that is .
FOR NOW keep praying forgiveness for those who persecute us .

Brother is spotted.

 

[Marvelloustime]

It seems contrary but its not dear sister .
Go to and learn the biblical pattern well .
You will see that we are not to rejoice when our enemy falls .
These souls are already passed on and the souls getting destroyed were never going to repent .
What did the prophet say , LORD did not i not make intercession to you FOR THEM
and did i not do good to them and pray and etc for them .
But now they reward my good for evil , Reward them according to their works .
NOTICE paul says that too .
HE had did all to try and convert that copper smith but he had greatly withstood their words .
THE LORD REWARD HIM ACCORDING TO HIS WORKS . aint anything contrary in that bible .
BUT i sure can see why this part might seem contrary .
For us we gonna stay in prayer while still in earthen bodies for our enenmies to repent so as they wont be destroyed .
What we do after we die , WELL we might be one of them under that alter saying avenge our blood .
BUT we will already have been killed . SO that will be when that is .
FOR NOW keep praying forgiveness for those who persecute us .

 

[amigo de christo]

Rev 7:13 Then one of the elders asked me, “These in white robes—who are they, and where did they come from?”
14 I answered, “Sir, you know.”
And he said, “These are they who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. 15 Therefore,
“they are before the throne of God
and serve him day and night in his temple;
and he who sits on the throne
will shelter them with his presence.
16 ‘Never again will they hunger;
never again will they thirst.
The sun will not beat down on them,’
nor any scorching heat.
17 For the Lamb at the center of the throne
will be their shepherd;
‘he will lead them to springs of living water.’
‘And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes.’”

Those who are before the throne of God, dressed in white, are prominent in Revelation, as being those whose nakedness (sin) is covered, usually thought to be everyone who believes in Jesus, but as we know, most did not believe that He died to save them from sin in this life.

The ones here:

Rev. 6:9-11.

When He opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they held. 10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, “How long, O Lord, holy and true, until You judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?” 11 Then a white robe was given to each of them; and it was said to them that they should rest a little while longer, until both the number of their fellow servants and their brethren, who would be killed as they were, was completed,

are however, under the altar, and not before it, crying for justice, and not wearing the white robe, so are still in their sins. They were then given the white robe however, and told to rest a little while longer to await others.

So I believe that this is the reason they wanted revenge. They were not at that time purified. Those who wear the white robe are the holy ones, and are already dwellers of heaven.

There is the belief in Orthodoxy that there is a stopover place before heaven, but not the purgatory of the Catholics, which I have not studied yet which seems to have some backing with scriptures such as these.

Do you know anyone named Hazel el poni .

 

[amigo de christo]

Brother is spotted.

schwester ist hier . LORD praising and thanking time in the building .