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Rita

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With regards to them speaking in tongues, I was just thinking about this and wondered if it was equally given for the benefit of the apostles as well.
We know that they had been given the great commission from Jesus to spread the word, we also know that many were simple fishermen. Jesus had already relayed to them that The Holy Spirit would provide the words. We know that they were about to be scattered , this would have undoubtedly given them the confidence to speak and not be fearful of where they would go, and who they would have had to speak to and proclaim the message.
This was as much a miracle for them as those hearing them speak x
 

Hillsage

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ACT 2:2 And suddenly there came a sound/echos from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind/pnoe, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.

"sound" 2279 echos: a loud or confusing noise (echo"), i.e. roar; fig a rumor
"wind" 4157 pnoe: respiration, a breeze
ABOVE FROM POST 444


Having dealt with this from the Charismatic perspective for verses 1, 2 earlier, I will continue to build on that foundation,

ACT 2:3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.

"cloven" 1266 to partition thoroughly

TWO 'cloven' TONGUES
or spiritual/heavenly LANGUAGES were spoken from the individuals of the gathered church body that day.

Their FIRST tongue/language came from the holy 'born again' spirit in each member of the whole church (120??). And this was the "loud confusing" prayer tongue` which "no one understands" including himself/herself doing the speaking/praying.

1CO 14:2 For he who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God, for no one understands him; however, in the spirit he (his/her) speaks mysteries.

Act 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance/apophtheggomai.


"utterance" = 0669 apophtheggomai: to enunciate plainly, i.e. declare

This FIRST TONGUE; "utterance/apophtheggomai:" was a language spoken that day which correlates to the first "sound/ECHOS" heard in verse 2 which was defined as 'a loud or confusing noise. That "noise" is what drew all the countries represented in the "house"/TEMPLE that day. It was that 120 people speaking in the "utterance" which was "enunciated plainly", but it was also totally not understood language of their spirit's prayer tongues. A language which led many in the crowd to later call them drunks. in verse 13.

Act 2:5, 6 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.
6 Now when this was noised /phone abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.


5456 phone: a tone (articulate, bestial or artificial); by impl. an address (for any purpose), saying or language

After the 'loud confusing,'articulate, bestial or artificial' noised abroad language, of 120 spirits praying a language which "no man understood" took place we then hear of another cloven tongued language pour forth from the disciples.

SECOND CLOVEN TONGUE; This tongue was the "gift of tongues" (1Cor 12) manifested by POWER from the Holy Spirit. This tongue was not of their spirit's prayer tongue. This tongue was from the Holy Spirit of God speaking earthly languages and not heavenly spirit languages. And that tongue was a tongue that could be understood by those whose worldly tongue or language was spoken in the worldly nations they came from.
 
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marks

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Why did God choose to use the confirming sign of His purpose to be tongues ?

He could have had them walk on water, or rain manna from the sky, or any manner of miraculous events, but then the phenomena would be associated with a small jewish sect and their miraculous powers.

But tongues was compelling the hearers from the known world to accept the universality of the message as being for all mankind.
I would add, for each of them personally.

"I'm hearing these unlearned man speaking to me in my own language! God speaks personally to me!"

Much love!
 
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Hillsage

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That "act"--would you say it is all fulfilling regarding Joel's prophecy and Jesus's sending of the Holy Spirit, or only representational of the overall plan of God to pour out His spirit upon all flesh?
I have to admit that I long struggled with the Joel prophesy when it ended with "all flesh". Then I read a book 20+years ago by Rick Joyner. In that book he said that the Greek and Hebrew words for "all flesh" could have an alternative rendering.

Hebrew 3605 kol: prop. the whole; hence all, any or every (in the sing. only but often in a plur. sense)
1320 basar: flesh (from its freshness); by extens. body, person; also (by euphem.) the pudenda of a man

Greek 3956 pas: all, any, every, the whole
4561 sarx: flesh (as stripped of the skin), i.e.(strictly) the meat of an animal (as food), or (by extens.)
the body (as opposed to the soul [or spirit]
,...

ACT 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon THE WHOLE BODY: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

That happened on Pentecost. Pouring out of His Holy Spirit the POWER that manifest on the whole body of Christ that day did happen. And that's how I've interpreted it ever since. :shine:
 

ScottA

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I have to admit that I long struggled with the Joel prophesy when it ended with "all flesh". Then I read a book 20+years ago by Rick Joyner. In that book he said that the Greek and Hebrew words for "all flesh" could have an alternative rendering.

Hebrew 3605 kol: prop. the whole; hence all, any or every (in the sing. only but often in a plur. sense)
1320 basar: flesh (from its freshness); by extens. body, person; also (by euphem.) the pudenda of a man

Greek 3956 pas: all, any, every, the whole
4561 sarx: flesh (as stripped of the skin), i.e.(strictly) the meat of an animal (as food), or (by extens.)
the body (as opposed to the soul [or spirit]
,...

ACT 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon THE WHOLE BODY: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

That happened on Pentecost. Pouring out of His Holy Spirit the POWER that manifest on the whole body of Christ that day did happen. And that's how I've interpreted it ever since. :shine:

If you look at all of Joel 2 the context is very much greater than the idea of just the "body" of Israel during that period of Acts. It begins with "all the inhabitants of the land" and gives the context as beginning in "Eden." Even if one were not to make those connections, surely all who are born of the flesh were included within the loins of the one man Adam, while all who are born of the spirit of God are also included in the one man Christ Jesus. Indeed, there is a bigger picture not to be overlooked, and even elaborated upon in the scriptures in great detail.

Even so, and though it is unwise, men have a way of making little of the great things of God.
 

Carl Emerson

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(Acts 2:17) Why is all flesh a problem when the Holy Spirit convicts the WORLD of sin , righteousness and judgement? (John 16:8)

Does this not speak of increased power and activity Globally which results in increased repentance among the unsaved as well as increased conviction and guidance and intercession among the saved.

Do we not see this when revival hits and the unsaved are seen on their knees in the streets, and the intercession of the saints intensifies?
 
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marks

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Is the Holy Spirit being poured out upon all flesh = The Holy Spirit indwelling the regenerate?

Is the Holy Spirit being poured out upon all flesh the same as people being baptized into Christ? Or does it mean something different?

I think maybe the majority of teaching I've heard on this makes these things the same, but are they?

Much love!
 

GRACE ambassador

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Is the Holy Spirit being poured out upon all flesh = The Holy Spirit indwelling the regenerate?

Is the Holy Spirit being poured out upon all flesh the same as people being baptized into Christ? Or does it mean something different?

I think maybe the majority of teaching I've heard on this makes these things the same, but are they?

Much love!
Precious friend, Depends 'which' Dispensation you are referring to, eh?:
Three Bible Baptisms:
Dispensation of The Law:

In God's Context Of Prophecy/Covenants/Law for ISRAEL, Yesterday!:

►►► The Twelve Were Sent to {water} baptize! ◄◄◄

The TWO Main (of 12 ) baptismS =

A) water, For remission of sins/induction into Israeli "priesthood!":
(Matthew_3:5-6; Mark_1:4; Luke_3:3; John_1:31; Luke 7:29-30; Acts_10:37)
(Matthew_28:19; Mark_16:16; Acts_2:38, 22:16; Ezekiel_36:25; Isaiah 52:15)
+
►►► "The Spirit Poured Out on all flesh" ◄◄◄​

B) WITH The Holy Spirit, Poured Out By CHRIST, for power, signs And wonders!
(Isaiah_44:3; Matthew_3:11; Mark_1:8, 16:17-18;
Luke_24:49; Acts_2:17-18, 38, 8:15-17, 11:16)

Prophecy/Law for ISRAEL! to be "Continued"...

Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15) From “Things That Differ” (online)

In God's Other Distinctive Context Of Mystery/GRACE! (Romans - Philemon) =

our "apostle to the Gentiles" for The Body Of CHRIST, Today!:

Paul Was Not Sent to {water} baptize! Why Not? - Today's:

Dispensation Of Grace:

►►► The Baptism/Indwelling Of The Spirit! ◄◄◄​

Only ONE Baptism = "BY" The ONE Spirit = God's OPERATION,
Spiritually Identifying members In (The ONE Body Of) CHRIST!!
(Ephesians 4:5; Colossians_2:12; Galatians_3:27;
Romans_6:3-4; 1 Corinthians 12:13 AV)

Conclusion: "Not the same," as Today, There Is Only ONE Baptism!

Baptized Into Christ.png

Amen.
 
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marks

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Precious friend, Depends 'which' Dispensation you are referring to, eh?:
Yes, I think this is another way to ask the same question, to which dispensation does this pouring out of the Spirit belong? I see this occurrance in the then Kingdom dispensation, as God continued to offer the promised kingdom to Israel as a nation.

Much love!
 
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J

Johann

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Precious friend, Depends 'which' Dispensation you are referring to, eh?:
Three Bible Baptisms:
Dispensation of The Law:

In God's Context Of Prophecy/Covenants/Law for ISRAEL, Yesterday!:

►►► The Twelve Were Sent to {water} baptize! ◄◄◄

The TWO Main (of 12 ) baptismS =

A) water, For remission of sins/induction into Israeli "priesthood!":
(Matthew_3:5-6; Mark_1:4; Luke_3:3; John_1:31; Luke 7:29-30; Acts_10:37)
(Matthew_28:19; Mark_16:16; Acts_2:38, 22:16; Ezekiel_36:25; Isaiah 52:15)
+
►►► "The Spirit Poured Out on all flesh" ◄◄◄​

B) WITH The Holy Spirit, Poured Out By CHRIST, for power, signs And wonders!
(Isaiah_44:3; Matthew_3:11; Mark_1:8, 16:17-18;
Luke_24:49; Acts_2:17-18, 38, 8:15-17, 11:16)

Prophecy/Law for ISRAEL! to be "Continued"...

Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15) From “Things That Differ” (online)

In God's Other Distinctive Context Of Mystery/GRACE! (Romans - Philemon) =

our "apostle to the Gentiles" for The Body Of CHRIST, Today!:

Paul Was Not Sent to {water} baptize! Why Not? - Today's:

Dispensation Of Grace:

►►► The Baptism/Indwelling Of The Spirit! ◄◄◄​

Only ONE Baptism = "BY" The ONE Spirit = God's OPERATION,
Spiritually Identifying members In (The ONE Body Of) CHRIST!!
(Ephesians 4:5; Colossians_2:12; Galatians_3:27;
Romans_6:3-4; 1 Corinthians 12:13 AV)

Conclusion: "Not the same," as Today, There Is Only ONE Baptism!

View attachment 47884

Amen.
How did you generate this pic?
 

Carl Emerson

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Is the Holy Spirit being poured out upon all flesh = The Holy Spirit indwelling the regenerate?

Is the Holy Spirit being poured out upon all flesh the same as people being baptized into Christ? Or does it mean something different?

I think maybe the majority of teaching I've heard on this makes these things the same, but are they?

Much love!

No... the Holy Spirit intensifying on the unsaved has a very different outcome. It has nothing to do with regeneration.
 

Carl Emerson

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I consider the dispensation concept somehow contradicts His willingness to work with us in any age and lowers expectations of revival now. We are missing out on so much because we think the time has not yet come, or has passed, when He says today is the day of salvation. It just needs the faithful to be open hearted before Him and He will act. Past revivals confirm this.
 
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marks

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I consider the dispensation concept somehow contradicts His willingness to work with us in any age and lowers expectations of revival now. We are missing out on so much because we think the time has not yet come, or has passed, when He says today is the day of salvation. It just need the faithful to be open hearted before Him and He will act. Past revivals confirm this.
Dispensations simply reference the way God has spoken in past times, and in present times, and will in future times.

We acknowledge the word of God to Abraham which Abraham believed, and it was credited to him for righteousness. It was that he would have innumerable children. But this is not the word of God given to us today.

If anything, dispensationalism assures us that even though God is not speaking in the same ways as in times past, that He does indeed still speak to us today, and His Word is for us today. And this has to be so, seeing how the cross changed everything.

There is no harm against expectations that God works today. We are rather assured He does.

Much love!
 
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Carl Emerson

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Dispensations simply reference the way God has spoken in past times, and in present times, and will in future times.

We acknowledge the word of God to Abraham which Abraham believed, and it was credited to him for righteousness. It was that he would have innumerable children. But this is not the word of God given to us today.

If anything, dispensationalism assures us that even though God is not speaking in the same ways as in times past, that He does indeed still speak to us today, and His Word is for us today. And this has to be so, seeing how the cross changed everything.

There is no harm against expectations that God works today. We are rather assured He does.

Much love!

I guess I don't agree - Abraham is the Father of all who have faith - He is an example for all of us and we follow Jesus in faith just as he did. God is available to us today as He was in Abrahams day. Sure the content of the promises given to him were unique, but we all have our promised land to enter and many don't because of unbelief.
 
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Johann

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That's all it refers to.


Of course He is!

:-)

Much love!
"God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways, in these last days has spoken to us in His Son,"

Historical Context: The author of Hebrews contrasts the ways God communicated in the past—primarily through the prophets—with how He communicates in the present, through His Son, Jesus Christ.

Progressive Revelation: The phrase "in these last days" refers to the time of fulfillment and culmination of God's redemptive plan through Christ. This period is considered the "last days" in biblical theology, beginning with the incarnation of Jesus Christ and extending through His resurrection and ascension.



Supremacy of Christ: The statement emphasizes the unique and authoritative role of Jesus Christ as the ultimate revelation of God to humanity. Unlike the prophets who served as intermediaries, Jesus is portrayed as the direct and perfect expression of God's will and nature.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1:1 "God, after He spoke" "God" is not first (fronted) in the Greek sentence; therefore, this text is not emphasizing the doctrine of revelation, but the manner of revelation in the past (aorist active participle).

"in the prophets" The Jews believed that prophets wrote Scripture. This is why Moses was considered a prophet (cf. Deut. 18:15) and why the Jews labeled the historical books of Joshua through Kings as the "former prophets." Therefore, this phrase does not refer to the OT prophets only, but to all the OT writers.

The phrase "in (en) the prophets" (v.1) is parallel to "in (en) His son" (v.2). There is an obvious contrast between the two means of revelation. One was a servant and one is a family member. The first was only partial but the second is full and complete (cf. Col. 1:15-17).

NASB"in many portions and in many ways"
NKJV"at various times and in different ways"
NRSV"in many and various ways"
TEV"many times and in many ways"
NJB"at many moments in the past and by many means"

The OT revelation was piece-meal in form and content. This phrase is placed first (fronted) in the Greek text of Heb. 1:1 to show the author's emphasis. Each OT writer had an important, but partial, message.

God revealed Himself:

1. to Moses in a burning bush

2. to the High Priest by the Urim and Thummim

3. to Elijah in a still, small voice

4. to Ezekiel in a vision

5. to Hosea through a bad marriage

6. to Jonah through a fish



1:2 "in these last days" This period of time goes by several names.

1. end of the days, Num. 24:14; Deut. 8:16; Dan. 2:28; 10:14

2. in the last days, Jer. 23:20; 30:24; 49:39; Ezek. 38:8,16; Hos. 3:5; Joel 2:28 (Acts 2:17); John 6:39,40,44,54; 11:24; 12:48; 2 Tim. 3:1; James 5:3

3. in the Last Time, 1 Pet. 1:5

4. at the end of the times, 1 Pet. 1:20

5. during the last of the days, 2 Pet. 3:3

6. the last hour, 1 John 2:18

At the end of the last days is the "day of the Lord" (i.e., "the consummation," Matt. 13:39,40; 24:3; 28:20; Heb. 9:26).

The Jews of the interbiblical period saw two ages: the current evil age of rebellion and sin (starting at Genesis 3) and the coming age of righteousness inaugurated by the coming of the Messiah in the power of the Spirit. The OT emphasizes the coming of the Messiah in judgment and power to establish the new age. However, it failed to see clearly the first coming of Jesus as (1) the "Suffering Servant" in Isaiah 53; (2) the humble One riding the colt of a donkey in Zech. 9:9; and (3) the pierced One of Zech. 12:10. From NT progressive revelation we know that God planned two comings of the Messiah. The period between the Incarnation (the first coming) and the second coming involves the overlapping of the two Jewish ages. This is designated in the NT by the phrase "last days." We have been in this period for over 2000 years.
Utley.
 

ScottA

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I consider the dispensation concept somehow contradicts His willingness to work with us in any age and lowers expectations of revival now. We are missing out on so much because we think the time has not yet come, or has passed, when He says today is the day of salvation. It just needs the faithful to be open hearted before Him and He will act. Past revivals confirm this.

The dispensation concept simply denotes a before and after, evidenced in many ways. Namely, the evening and the morning, the cross, life and death, etc.

As for being open hearted, yes today is today and all things from God should be considered, as God is the same yesterday, today, and forever.
 
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