Is Truth Relevant? True and False are opinions. - True or False?

[St. SteVen]

A follow-up to this previous (short-lived) topic:

Absolute truth - Do we know what it is?

Jesus said to Pilate, "... the reason I was born and came into the world is to testify to the truth. Everyone on the side of truth listens to me.” Pilate asked Jesus, "What is truth?" - John 18:37-38 NIV Still a good question. Absolute truth - Do we know what it is? ]

www.christianityboard.com

Absolute truth - Do we know what it is?​

Jesus said to Pilate,
"... the reason I was born and came into the world is to testify to the truth.
Everyone on the side of truth listens to me.”
Pilate asked Jesus, "What is truth?" - (John 18:37-38)

Still a good question.

Absolute truth - Do we know what it is?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Should we be as frightened of the word "truth" as we are of the word "false"?

- Someone may claim the something is false. But that's only their opinion. Even if they claim it is "biblical".
- Someone may claim the something is true. But that's only their opinion. Even if they claim it is "biblical".

/

 

[Windmill Charge]

Someone may claim the something is false. But that's only their opinion. Even if they claim it is "biblical".
- Someone may claim the something is true. But that's only their opinion. Even if they claim it is "biblical".

Truth has nothing to do with one's opinion.

Some People say that Jesus never exis, unfortunately for them the historical evidence says otherwise.
There opinion of what is truth is irrelevant.

Where people are making claims about ' truth ' they need to allow their reasoning and evidence be examined and discussed, very few people give up a deeply held idea with out a struggle.

 

[St. SteVen]

Truth has nothing to do with one's opinion.

That's debatable. - LOL
A matter is determined by how many witnesses?

Some People say that Jesus never exis, unfortunately for them the historical evidence says otherwise.
There opinion of what is truth is irrelevant.

Even the historical evidence is opinion. There are opinions on both sides of a matter.

Where people are making claims about ' truth ' they need to allow their reasoning and evidence be examined and discussed, very few people give up a deeply held idea with out a struggle.

Discussion about claims is opinion.

A conclusion about truth is only a best guess. (opinion)

]

 

[ElieG12]

"Being in the truth" is not only a JWs thing. It is a biblical expression often used by Paul.

The concept THE TRUTH is biblical. You can do a search in the Bible by yourself.

 

[Wick Stick]

A follow-up to this previous (short-lived) topic:

Absolute truth - Do we know what it is?

Jesus said to Pilate, "... the reason I was born and came into the world is to testify to the truth. Everyone on the side of truth listens to me.” Pilate asked Jesus, "What is truth?" - John 18:37-38 NIV Still a good question. Absolute truth - Do we know what it is? ]

www.christianityboard.com

Absolute truth - Do we know what it is?​

Jesus said to Pilate,
"... the reason I was born and came into the world is to testify to the truth.
Everyone on the side of truth listens to me.”
Pilate asked Jesus, "What is truth?" - (John 18:37-38)

Still a good question.

Absolute truth - Do we know what it is?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Should we be as frightened of the word "truth" as we are of the word "false"?

- Someone may claim the something is false. But that's only their opinion. Even if they claim it is "biblical".
- Someone may claim the something is true. But that's only their opinion. Even if they claim it is "biblical".

/

Certainly there are things that are objectively true. For instance, the wavelength of blue light is 450-495 nanometers.

But there are also situations that arise in life where there is no perfect answer. Usually that happens because someone has screwed things up in the lead-up to that situation. For instance, in America our ancestors practiced chattel slavery, and there just isn't a perfect fix to the ills that society continues to bear because of this sin of the past.

 

[Windmill Charge]

That's debatable. - LOL
A matter is determined by how many witnesses?


Even the historical evidence is opinion. There are opinions on both sides of a matter.


Discussion about claims is opinion.

A conclusion about truth is only a best guess. (opinion)

]

Truth is not a option or debatable.
Yes people have different opinions views etc but ultimately there is only one truth.

 

[St. SteVen]

Yes people have different opinions views etc but ultimately there is only one truth.

Which is what?
What is your opinion of the truth?

]

 

[Lambano]

Ah, yes.

How do we know that we know what we know?

Y'know?

 

[St. SteVen]

Ah, yes.

How do we know that we know what we know?

Y'know?

 

[Jack]

Absolute truth - Do we know what it is?

We sure do. It's called the Christian Bible. It is PROVEN!

 

[Windmill Charge]

Which is what?
What is your opinion of the truth?

]

Truth is those facts that accurately describe reality.

Spiritual truth is based on Jesus. Those who distort or pervert the truth of Jesus in order to gain wealth or popularity do not know the truth.

 

[BarneyFife]

A follow-up to this previous (short-lived) topic:

Absolute truth - Do we know what it is?

Jesus said to Pilate, "... the reason I was born and came into the world is to testify to the truth. Everyone on the side of truth listens to me.” Pilate asked Jesus, "What is truth?" - John 18:37-38 NIV Still a good question. Absolute truth - Do we know what it is? ]

www.christianityboard.com

Absolute truth - Do we know what it is?​

Jesus said to Pilate,
"... the reason I was born and came into the world is to testify to the truth.
Everyone on the side of truth listens to me.”
Pilate asked Jesus, "What is truth?" - (John 18:37-38)

Still a good question.

Absolute truth - Do we know what it is?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Should we be as frightened of the word "truth" as we are of the word "false"?

- Someone may claim the something is false. But that's only their opinion. Even if they claim it is "biblical".
- Someone may claim the something is true. But that's only their opinion. Even if they claim it is "biblical".

/

If I claim it's true that God is love, is it only my opinion?

.

 

[St. SteVen]

Truth is those facts that accurately describe reality.

Spiritual truth is based on Jesus. Those who distort or pervert the truth of Jesus in order to gain wealth or popularity do not know the truth.

Wasn't Jesus popular? You treat it like it's a sin. Was Billy Graham popular?

'

 

[St. SteVen]

If I claim it's true that God is love, is it only my opinion?

.

Yes, unfortunately. And shared by a precious few.

That's why I'm so precious. - LOL

]

 

[St. SteVen]

Yes, unfortunately. And shared by a precious few.

That's why I'm so precious. - LOL

]

Seriously though...

The "wrath" (justice) thing is a caveat. "God is love, BUT He will incinerate you for one wrong move."

--- PARODY ---

Christian: God is love!
Prospect: What about the "hell" thing?
Christian: Oh, that's God's justice.
Prospect: How is that justice?
Christian: God has two sides.
Prospect: You mean he is two-faced, as in untrustworthy.
Christian: No, he is totally trustworthy.
Prospect: But aren't I currently in danger of hell?
Christian: Yes, but we can fix that?
Prospect: Fix it? Why is it even there if God is trustworthy?
Christian: Put your trust in Jesus and God will protect you.
Prospect: So, Jesus died to save me from God?
Christian: Well... I suppose he did...
Prospect: Are you nuts?

]

 

[hies]

Seriously though...

The "wrath" (justice) thing is a caveat. "God is love, BUT He will incinerate you for one wrong move."

--- PARODY ---

Christian: God is love!
Prospect: What about the "hell" thing?
Christian: Oh, that's God's justice.
Prospect: How is that justice?
Christian: God has two sides.
Prospect: You mean he is two-faced, as in untrustworthy.
Christian: No, he is totally trustworthy.
Prospect: But aren't I currently in danger of hell?
Christian: Yes, but we can fix that?
Prospect: Fix it? Why is it even there if God is trustworthy?
Christian: Put your trust in Jesus and God will protect you.
Prospect: So, Jesus died to save me from God?
Christian: Well... I suppose he did...
Prospect: Are you nuts?

]

I know you're making fun, but some people genuinely believe this line of thinking.

If God is good, he has to punish evil.
We have all done evil.
Therefore, we all deserve punishment.

Universal truth exists. This is a fact. Why?
If you say "universal truth does not exist", I can ask you "can you say that with absolute certainty?"
If you say "yes", you have just contradicted your original statement
If you say "no", then what you've said is an irrelevent statement and has no meaning

Or if you say "all truth is relative", I can ask "is that relatively true?"

Or if you say "I have the right to live my truth", I can ask "what if my truth contradicts your truth? Don't I have the right to live my truth too?"
Or you could ask "where are you getting this standard of right from?"
Or "what if my truth is to live THE truth?"

Yes moral relativism and relative truth are absolutely foolish, but too many people believe it today that it's not even funny.

Frank Turek and Askcliffe both cover this relativism really well:

 

[St. SteVen]

I know you're making fun, but some people genuinely believe this line of thinking.

That's why I can make fun.
Good post, thanks.

If God is good, he has to punish evil.
We have all done evil.
Therefore, we all deserve punishment.

This is terrible logic.
If God is good he has to punish everyone because everyone is evil? Wow. That's not good at all.
If everyone is evil due to their behavior, then so is God. (due to his behavior)

Universal truth exists. This is a fact. Why?
If you say "universal truth does not exist", I can ask you "can you say that with absolute certainty?"
If you say "yes", you have just contradicted your original statement
If you say "no", then what you've said is an irrelevent statement and has no meaning

The topic question is whether truth is relevant.

Or if you say "all truth is relative", I can ask "is that relatively true?"

LOL

Or if you say "I have the right to live my truth", I can ask "what if my truth contradicts your truth? Don't I have the right to live my truth too?"
Or you could ask "where are you getting this standard of right from?"
Or "what if my truth is to live THE truth?"

There is no consensus on truth. None. How relevant can it be?

]

 

[hies]

This is terrible logic.
If God is good he has to punish everyone because everyone is evil? Wow. That's not good at all.
If everyone is evil due to their behavior, then so is God. (due to his behavior)

Where are you getting your standard of morality from to call something evil?

Only God is good. He is the standard of morality. If this is not true, then it's merely an opinion, which means nothing is actually evil, it's all just opinions. So what you're doing is borrowing morality from God to try and judge him with it! Morality, like logic, is not created. It is an attribute of God's divine nature.

C. S. Lewis said it best:

My argument against God was that the universe seemed so cruel and unjust. But how had I got this idea of just and unjust? A man does not call a line crooked unless he has some idea of a straight line. What was I comparing this universe with when I called it unjust? If the whole show was bad and senseless from A to Z, so to speak, why did I, who was supposed to be part of the show, find myself in such a violent reaction against it?... Of course I could have given up my idea of justice by saying it was nothing but a private idea of my own. But if i did that, then my argument against God collapsed too--for the argument depended on saying the world was really unjust, not simply that it did not happen to please my fancies. Thus, in the very act of trying to prove that God did not exist - in other words, that the whole of reality was senseless - I found I was forced to assume that one part of reality - namely my idea of justice - was full of sense. If the whole universe has no meaning, we should never have found out that it has no meaning: just as, if there were no light in the universe and therefore no creatures with eyes, we should never have known it was dark. Dark would be without meaning.

Evil is something that deviates from God's perfect will. It is not an opinion.
And yes, being free creatures, we have all done evil. Evil is a natural result of real free will. But love cannot exist without free will, so God saw the evil as somewhat necessary (for now). However, it still must be punished if God is good. Justice must be served to those who have done wrong to others. This is why Jesus paid the fine for us. Because we have all done evil. If he didn't do that, then our very existence would contradict the idea of God being perfectly moral. The only way God could be perfectly moral and allow us to exist is if he himself paid for our transgressions against him. And why would he do this? Purely out of love for you. This actually means that logically, the Christian God is the only possible God that could exist!

C. S. Lewis said it best again:

This doesn't have to be the best possible world. It just has to be the best possible world that leads to the best possible world (heaven, a place where creatures freely chose to love the creator).

"And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose." - Romans 8:28

"Why not say—as some slanderously claim that we say—"Let us do evil that good may result"? Their condemnation is just!" - Romans 3:8

 

[hies]

The topic question is whether truth is relevant.

Then I can ask is that a relevant question?
If you say yes, then you've answered your own question.
If you say no, then your question becomes irrelevant and meaningless.

The best way to expose a contradiction is to flip the question on itself.

 

[St. SteVen]

Where are you getting your standard of morality from to call something evil?

Where are you getting your standard of morality from to call everyone evil?
If everyone is evil then no one is good. (I know that is a tenet of Christianity, but...)
How can there be evil if there is no good?
Where's the comparison?

Only God is good. He is the standard of morality.

Jesus taught us that it is godly behavior to love our enemies.
What then should God do with his enemies?

]