Its the fallen world you sense death is in everything - everything is moving towards death and destruction - everything in this life is fleeting and fading even your thoughts and feelings.There is nothing eternal here you can't hang on to anything everything worked for here is in vein and will be lost forever.The only thing keeping things going is God renewing life daily or there would be nothing but death.We sense the eternal we know it exists but cannot have it here.All will face death in this life and lose everything build your treasure in heaven not here anything done here will turn to dust and rot into the ground.Nothing is eternal here and we want eternity.Its a sad position to be in condemned universally and relying completely on the sacrifice Jesus made - you can almost feel like a victim having to face this fate that you were born into but all have sinned and are guilty.
Anybody else?
- Thread starter Riven
- Start date
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Which Scriptures? Leviticus and Numbers?
Yes, they do…..
Here, I’ll post the BibleHub.com info for you (I bolded and added asterisks for the relevant parts):
Leviticus 19:28 NIV…
“’Do not cut your bodies for the dead or put tattoo marks on yourselves. I am the LORD.
In Hebrew:
You must not
לֹ֤א (lō)
Adverb - Negative particle
Strong's 3808: Not, no
make any cuts
וְשֶׂ֣רֶט (wə·śe·reṭ)
Conjunctive waw | Noun - masculine singular
Strong's 8296: An incision
in your bodies
בִּבְשַׂרְכֶ֔ם (biḇ·śar·ḵem)
Preposition-b | Noun - masculine singular construct | second person masculine plural
Strong's 1320: Flesh, body, person, the pudenda of a, man
for the dead
לָנֶ֗פֶשׁ (lā·ne·p̄eš)
Preposition-l | Noun - feminine singular
Strong's 5315: **A soul**, living being, life, self, person, desire, passion, appetite, emotion
or put
תִתְּנ֖וּ (ṯit·tə·nū)
Verb - Qal - Imperfect - second person masculine plural
Strong's 5414: To give, put, set
tattoo
קַֽעֲקַ֔ע (qa·‘ă·qa‘)
Noun - masculine singular
Strong's 7085: An incision, imprint, tattoo
marks on yourselves.
וּכְתֹ֣בֶת (ū·ḵə·ṯō·ḇeṯ)
Conjunctive waw | Noun - feminine singular construct
Strong's 3793: A letter, branded
I
אֲנִ֖י (’ă·nî)
Pronoun - first person common singular
Strong's 589: I
am the LORD.
יְהוָֽה׃ (Yah·weh)
Noun - proper - masculine singular
Strong's 3068: LORD -- the proper name of the God of Israel
————————————————
Numbers 6:6, NIV…
“’Throughout the period of their dedication to the LORD, the Nazirite must not go near a dead body.
In Hebrew:
Throughout
כָּל־ (kāl-)
Noun - masculine singular construct
Strong's 3605: The whole, all, any, every
the days
יְמֵ֥י (yə·mê)
Noun - masculine plural construct
Strong's 3117: A day
of his separation
הַזִּיר֖וֹ (haz·zî·rōw)
Verb - Hifil - Infinitive construct | third person masculine singular
Strong's 5144: To hold aloof, abstain, to set apart, devote
to the LORD,
לַיהוָ֑ה (Yah·weh)
Preposition-l | Noun - proper - masculine singular
Strong's 3068: LORD -- the proper name of the God of Israel
he must not
לֹ֥א (lō)
Adverb - Negative particle
Strong's 3808: Not, no
go
יָבֹֽא׃ (yā·ḇō)
Verb - Qal - Imperfect - third person masculine singular
Strong's 935: To come in, come, go in, go
near
עַל־ (‘al-)
Preposition
Strong's 5921: Above, over, upon, against
a dead
מֵ֖ת (mêṯ)
Verb - Qal - Participle - masculine singular
Strong's 4191: To die, to kill
body.
נֶ֥פֶשׁ (ne·p̄eš)
Noun - feminine singular
Strong's 5315: **A soul**, living being, life, self, person, desire, passion, appetite, emotion
——————————————-
Numbers 19:11, NIV…
“Whoever touches a human corpse will be unclean for seven days.
In Hebrew:
Whoever touches
הַנֹּגֵ֥עַ (han·nō·ḡê·a‘)
Article | Verb - Qal - Participle - masculine singular
Strong's 5060: To touch, lay the hand upon, to reach, violently, to strike
any
לְכָל־ (lə·ḵāl)
Preposition-l | Noun - masculine singular construct
Strong's 3605: The whole, all, any, every
dead
בְּמֵ֖ת (bə·mêṯ)
Preposition-b | Verb - Qal - Participle - masculine singular
Strong's 4191: To die, to kill
body
נֶ֣פֶשׁ (ne·p̄eš)
Noun - feminine singular
Strong's 5315: **A soul**, living being, life, self, person, desire, passion, appetite, emotion
will be unclean
וְטָמֵ֖א (wə·ṭā·mê)
Conjunctive waw | Verb - Qal - Conjunctive perfect - third person masculine singular
Strong's 2930: To be or become unclean
for seven
שִׁבְעַ֥ת (šiḇ·‘aṯ)
Number - masculine singular construct
Strong's 7651: Seven, seven times, a week, an indefinite number
days.
יָמִֽים׃ (yā·mîm)
Noun - masculine plural
Strong's 3117: A day
—————————————-
So the soul dies, and stays dead. (The future hope for those who’ve died — the souls that have died — is the promised Resurrection. (John 5:28,29; Acts 24:15) Christendom’s main tenet of the soul — that it is immortal — is not what the Bible teaches.
2 Timothy 3:16, KJV…
“All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:”
We can’t pick-and-choose.
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
You do not want to go up against a Theologian with a word study…..you will lose. I chew up Jehovah’s Witnesses in any word sturdy or scriptural meaning, on the forum or at the front door.
Post the scriptures you think indicate that no souls exist for eternity. Old Testament discussions on sinful souls, unless you can find a very detailed explanation in the Old Testament, are nearly irrelevant.
One of the reasons I know this is because I studied at Hebrew University in Jerusalem….The Old Testament does not have any details on this. Detailed Jewish beliefs regarding souls or what happens to sinful souls did not evolve until after the biblical period. More importantly I know that those beliefs did not come from the Old Testament.
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PS95
Well-Known Member
I simply can not allow that comment to stand.
JWs do that ALL DAY LONG. When called on it you either yell persecution or divert the topics to your comfort zones (hellfire, trin). I can't think of another group that refers to itself at times as Christians who cherry picks more than Jws do.
It is yet another case, of uneven scales and I wish that just ONE time you would admit it, but the self-righteousness gets in the way.
PS95
Well-Known Member
Riven, If you post in the non-Christian category just know to expect replies from all sorts of beliefs including cults.
What I posted, is sufficient. The Hebrew on which those Scriptures are based, definitively show the soul dies, and stays dead.
(Unless you think the Bible contradicts itself. If that’s the case, any further discussion is rendered fruitless.)
Scripture - at least the Bible - shouldn’t be used to “chew” people up, like a grinder. Rather, to enlighten others & help them to develop a stronger relationship with God by growing spiritually: “for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness.”
Done with mildness. - Titus 3:2
Take care.
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
People that promote false beliefs like Christ was not Divine and that Hell does not exist are of the Devil and the enemy of every true Christian. So I am happy to grind them up.
I have no problem copy and pasting what I have said in previous posts. Especially when people try to put words in my mouth.
You asked---- Unless you think the Bible contradicts itself. If that’s the case, any further discussion is rendered fruitless.
I did not say that the scriptures contradict themselves.
What I said was very simplely.....Post the scriptures you think indicate that no souls exist for eternity. Old Testament discussions on sinful souls, unless you can find a very detailed explanation in the Old Testament, are nearly irrelevant.
People can twist undefined scriptures, the Jehovah’s Witnesses have been doing it for years. It is a common practice by cults.
And I simply asked you to find the scripture that supports your belief. Find the scripture that says souls are not eternal. If you want to talk about what happens to sinful souls….that is a different topic.
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PS95
Well-Known Member
Nice to meetya Grailhunter,
I'm unsure of the meaning of your last sentence there.
Nowhere did Jesus reprimand nor attempt to dissuade the Jews ( Pharicees) from their understanding in an immortal soul. He certainly corrected them many times! Instead, Jesus bolstered that belief with "rich man & lazurus" as well as Jesus' owmn words,
"Don't fear him who can kill the body but not the soul".
Jesus certainly corrrected the Saducees on the resurrection & Pharisees on their self righteousness, heavy burdens and lack of mercy etc... Jewish historan, Josephus, who was a Pharisee wrote that they believed in the immortality of the soul. The apostle Paul was also a Pharisee, and nowwhere does he teach that he believed otherwise. The accusation of Jws that it is of Christiandom is mere bluster. as usual.
Their false teaching of an impersonal life force into Mary's ovum .. like electricity is the Jw man made doctrine here.
For the The Jews of Jesus' day. See paragraph 3-
PS95
Well-Known Member
Yessssss. I have always had an awareness, but it definitely peaked since they locked us down and forced us to watch "peaceful" riots and so on...
It's as if the earth's axis tilted. Lies are truth -up is down -wrong is right- good is bad
It will continue to spiral. Slower, if we stand firm perhaps.
But we keep hope and encourage each other to wait for God's Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, that is, Jesus who rescues us from the wrath to come. Since, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him. (1 Thes 1:10, Ro 5:9)
So we always keep hope!
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
PS95
Well-Known Member
"The spirit goes back to God who gave it" Ecc 12:7
"Into your hands I commit my spirit" Luke 23:46
" Lord Jesus, receive my spirit "! Acts 7:59
"For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so the thoughts of God no one knows except the Spirit of God." 1 Cor 2:11
"The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God’s children" Ro 8:16
"Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit." jo 3:6
there are a ton..
I was taught that our spirit is just our breath by Jws. It doesn't make sense.
If you ask me- their 'life force" sounds a bit like spirit, except they add impersonal which is odd.
"Into your hands I commit my spirit" Luke 23:46
" Lord Jesus, receive my spirit "! Acts 7:59
"For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so the thoughts of God no one knows except the Spirit of God." 1 Cor 2:11
"The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God’s children" Ro 8:16
"Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit." jo 3:6
there are a ton..
I was taught that our spirit is just our breath by Jws. It doesn't make sense.
If you ask me- their 'life force" sounds a bit like spirit, except they add impersonal which is odd.
Aunty Jane
Well-Known Member
Just for clarification…..
The ancient Jews to whom those Scriptures were written, had no belief in such a place. Jesus was Jewish and would never have taught his disciples lies about the dead.
The apostate Jews adopted belief in immortal souls from the Greeks and so did Christendom….Jesus never speaks about a place of eternal conscious torment after death, because the dead are not conscious and cannot suffer anything in a conscious way. (Eccl 9:5, 10; Eccl 3:19-20)
They mean completely different things. Not once is a soul described as a disembodied spirit. So perhaps you can find us scripture that says so….
A soul in OT Scripture is a living, breathing creature…both man and animals are called “souls”. Souls are mortal and they die. (Ezek 18:4)
What did God tell Adam as respects the expectation of death as the penalty for disobedience concerning the TKGE?
Gen 3:17-19…..
”And He said to Adam, “Because you listened to your wife’s voice and ate from the tree about which I commanded you, ‘Do not eat from it’: The ground is cursed because of you. You will eat from it by means of painful labor all the days of your life. It will produce thorns and thistles for you, and you will eat the plants of the field. You will eat bread by the sweat of your brow until you return to the ground, since you were taken from it. For you are dust,and you will return to dust.”
Where was the threat of “hell” for plunging the entire human race into sin and death? Did anyone deserve such a punishment more than Adam did? (Rom 5:12) And yet all God told him was that he would “return to the dust” out of which he was created……eternal death. Nothing more was needed as an eternal punishment. God is not a fiend who somehow enjoys seeing the wicked suffer. He has no need or desire to do so. (Jer 7:30-31)
It was Daniel who foretold that “the time of the end” would see a “cleansing, whitening and refining” of his worshippers, facilitated by an abundance of knowledge, (Dan 12:4; 9-10) previously Bible knowledge was held only by Christendom’s clergy who needed years of study in “theology” to gain degrees as teachers…..was this a requirement for Christ’s disciples? (Acts 4:13)
Is “theology“ the study of God’s word…or merely the inculcating of church doctrine to be spoon fed to an equally ignorant majority?
So there you have your answer.….”souls” were designed to live forever in their mortal flesh, otherwise the death penalty would have been meaningless. Mortal means that they can die…not that death was inevitable until Adam sentenced all of his children to inherit his debt. (Rom 5:12)
“Souls” have not gone on living, because nowhere does the Bible give us heaven or hell as opposite destinations for the dead…..the earth was to be our permanent home, otherwise the tree of life would never have been there. Where is your logic when studying the Bible? It’s apparently gone right out the window.
All souls will be judge as either worthy of everlasting (rather than “eternal”) life…or everlasting death, upon their resurrection….which are the only two options. Christendom created all the rest of the nonsense that these arguments revolve around.
Nothing created by the devil is as it seems…..you have been lied to.
We do believe that Christ is “divine”….he was a direct creation of his God and Father…how could he be otherwise? (Rev 3:14; Rev 3:12) We do not accept that “divinity” is necessarily the same as “deity” because Jehovah himself called other beings “gods”. (John 10:31-36) and it didn’t make them his equals….it indicated divine authority.
We do believe that “hell” exists because the Bible says it does. We just don’t believe that every word translated into English as “hell” conveys the truth of God’s word….what is “Sheol”, “hades”, “Gehenna” “the lake of fire”? How did the the ones to whom these things were written understand them?
The ancient Jews to whom those Scriptures were written, had no belief in such a place. Jesus was Jewish and would never have taught his disciples lies about the dead.
The apostate Jews adopted belief in immortal souls from the Greeks and so did Christendom….Jesus never speaks about a place of eternal conscious torment after death, because the dead are not conscious and cannot suffer anything in a conscious way. (Eccl 9:5, 10; Eccl 3:19-20)
Since we do not believe what you assume…you are in error. You grind up no one but yourself.
If you accept what Christendom teaches, you have many contradictions to deal with.…not the least of which is taking satan’s first lie and promoting it as truth….it wasn’t God who told them they “surely would not die”….was it?
What is a “soul”…..don’t you first have to deal with that question? Nowhere in the Bible is the idea that a soul is the same as a spirit. But Christendom uses the terms interchangeably.
They mean completely different things. Not once is a soul described as a disembodied spirit. So perhaps you can find us scripture that says so….
A soul in OT Scripture is a living, breathing creature…both man and animals are called “souls”. Souls are mortal and they die. (Ezek 18:4)
What did God tell Adam as respects the expectation of death as the penalty for disobedience concerning the TKGE?
Gen 3:17-19…..
”And He said to Adam, “Because you listened to your wife’s voice and ate from the tree about which I commanded you, ‘Do not eat from it’: The ground is cursed because of you. You will eat from it by means of painful labor all the days of your life. It will produce thorns and thistles for you, and you will eat the plants of the field. You will eat bread by the sweat of your brow until you return to the ground, since you were taken from it. For you are dust,and you will return to dust.”
Where was the threat of “hell” for plunging the entire human race into sin and death? Did anyone deserve such a punishment more than Adam did? (Rom 5:12) And yet all God told him was that he would “return to the dust” out of which he was created……eternal death. Nothing more was needed as an eternal punishment. God is not a fiend who somehow enjoys seeing the wicked suffer. He has no need or desire to do so. (Jer 7:30-31)
I’m afraid Christendom was doing that long before we came along……the apostasy foretold by Jesus and his apostles was under way in the first century……Christendom is the product of that apostasy. So perhaps look at the origins of your own beliefs….none of them come from the Bible as it was written.
It was Daniel who foretold that “the time of the end” would see a “cleansing, whitening and refining” of his worshippers, facilitated by an abundance of knowledge, (Dan 12:4; 9-10) previously Bible knowledge was held only by Christendom’s clergy who needed years of study in “theology” to gain degrees as teachers…..was this a requirement for Christ’s disciples? (Acts 4:13)
Is “theology“ the study of God’s word…or merely the inculcating of church doctrine to be spoon fed to an equally ignorant majority?
Since a “soul” is a living, breathing creature….and created mortal…..which means being dependent on external means to keep living….does God have the means to extend unending life to mortal creatures….? The answer is YES! It was right there in the garden…called “the tree of life”…..access to this tree was open as long as the humans obeyed their Creator. But once the death penalty had been declared for Adam and his wife, access was immediately denied. No sinful human was going to be allowed to live forever….imagine! (Gen 3:22-24)
So there you have your answer.….”souls” were designed to live forever in their mortal flesh, otherwise the death penalty would have been meaningless. Mortal means that they can die…not that death was inevitable until Adam sentenced all of his children to inherit his debt. (Rom 5:12)
“Souls” have not gone on living, because nowhere does the Bible give us heaven or hell as opposite destinations for the dead…..the earth was to be our permanent home, otherwise the tree of life would never have been there. Where is your logic when studying the Bible? It’s apparently gone right out the window.
All souls will be judge as either worthy of everlasting (rather than “eternal”) life…or everlasting death, upon their resurrection….which are the only two options. Christendom created all the rest of the nonsense that these arguments revolve around.
Nothing created by the devil is as it seems…..you have been lied to.
PS95
Well-Known Member
According to you,"divine angel" who is not to be worshiped although He clearly is. Not a creature Rev 5.
Hebrews clearly says he is not an angel a few timesl! Heb 1
Trinity is banned so I leave you with that.
All that you teach is the common grave of mankind. --Of course Jesus doesnt lie.
You have been shown that Ecc 9:5 is incorrect IN CONTEXT. But you keep it up? same as Romans 6- You die to pay God for forgiveness. Good grief woman.
According to you Paul was apostate after he became a believer? lol Where did he teach this correction?
Jws teach soul = our body , spirit= our breath. That is what I was taught for decades. Did you get 'new light"?
What's an impersonal life-force? Sounds like star wars. ?
The word, nepesh has MANY meanings. I've told you that already. Honestly, I'm not totally sure it is what anyone says- it's not clear but it is not just our body.
Why you love to argue over anything that isn't clear in scripture is.. is... well, what JWs ALWAYS do.
Some things just aren't that important if we dont understand fully. But a Jws always have some made up answer!
And who says Adam didnt die physically? Many years later.
How did he die the day he sinned?
"but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for on the day that you eat from it you will certainly die.”"
Christians believe that Adam did die that day- spiritually. Jesus gives us spiritual rebirth!
Adam didn't sin any more than we do. This is stupid. That wasn't all - he died that DAY spiritually- he lost his fellowship with God! tossed from His presence!
Those who chose satan over Jesus belong to satan and will be with him in the lake of fire. That is what the bible says..
They made that choice by rejecting GOOD. (Jesus)
I don't fit God into my box. Whatever He does is ok with me. He is our creator. You insist Adam will never be resurrected. Who are you to judge Adam? And then you teach that Jesus only paid for Adam's sin (original sin) but not OUR SINS- the bible teaches the opposite!
Funny how there is zero evidence that JWs ever existed until 1900s yet you say they did. Look at the origins of YOUR beliefs! lol Cmon now.. Pyramidology, the occult, False prophecies, and slew of (other) made up nonsense!!
Be very careful about who you accuse that way. To JWS- Christians are all antichrists. Only Jws are approved by God. sigh.
You can't make this stuff up.
Jane, if you don't stop this stuff and believe God that Jesus died for OUR SINS- and joyfully accept His free gift of grace, you will die in your sins. I dont want that to happen. You can not offer your own death as payment for your sins- that is slapping the Lord Jesus in the face. I don't think that is what you want to do, but you are rejecting His love.
That is not what Romans 6 is teaching in context! Just read it.
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
God the Father
God the Son
God the Holy Spirit
No skin off my tail.....Pack the barbeque sauce in your casket.....you will need it.
You think you are explaining something to me?….that is what is funny. And it is a fact that they did not have a word for an eternal place of fiery torment….but Christ and the Apostles explained and warned of an eternal place of fiery torment as many ways as possible.
The limitations of the languages was such that they had to improvise with something called Christian Greek….The Same Greek words with Christian definitions and context to convey Christian morals and concepts.
You serpents, you brood of vipers, how are you to escape being sentenced to hell?
but the chaff he will burn with unquenchable fire.”
‘You fool!’ will be liable to the hell of fire.
your whole body be thrown into hell.
In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”
and throw them into the fiery furnace. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
And throw them into the fiery furnace. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
than with two eyes to be thrown into the hell of fire.
In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”
with two hands to go to hell, to the unquenchable fire.
but the chaff he will burn with unquenchable fire.”
has authority to cast into hell.
In flaming fire, inflicting vengeance on those who do not know God
serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire.
and he will be tormented with fire and sulfur
And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever, and they have no rest, day or night,
their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur,
Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.
How many words do you have to change in your attempt to deceive good Christians? How many scriptures do you have to twist to deceive good Christians? Your fiery reward a waits you.
Hebrews 6:4-8
4 For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame. 7 For ground that drinks the rain which often falls on it and brings forth vegetation useful to those for whose sake it is also tilled, receives a blessing from God; 8 but if it yields thorns and thistles, it is worthless and close to being cursed, and it ends up being burned.
2nd Corinthians :5:10: For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
1st Corinthians 6:9-10 “Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor those habitually drunk, nor verbal abusers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God”
Galatians 5:19-21 Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: sexual immorality, impurity, indecent behavior, idolatry, witchcraft, hostilities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions,
envy, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
Matthew 3:12 His winnowing fork is in his hand, and he will clear his threshing floor and gather his wheat into the barn, but the chaff he will burn with unquenchable fire.”
Matthew 5:22 But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother will be liable to judgment; whoever insults his brother will be liable to the council; and whoever says, ‘You fool!’ will be liable to the hell of fire.
CONTINUED...
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Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
Matthew 5:29 If your right eye causes you to sin, tear it out and throw it away. For it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body be thrown into hell.
Matthew 5:30 And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. For it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body go into hell.
Matthew 8:12 While the sons of the kingdom will be thrown into the outer darkness. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”
Matthew 13:41-42 The Son of Man will send his angels, and they will gather out of his kingdom all causes of sin and all law-breakers, and throw them into the fiery furnace. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Matthew 13:50 And throw them into the fiery furnace. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Matthew 18:9 And if your eye causes you to sin, tear it out and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life with one eye than with two eyes to be thrown into the hell of fire.
Matthew 23:33 You serpents, you brood of vipers, how are you to escape being sentenced to hell?
Matthew 24:51 And will cut him in pieces and put him with the hypocrites. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Matthew 25:41 Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
Matthew 25:46 And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”
Mark 9:43 And if your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life crippled than with two hands to go to hell, to the unquenchable fire.
Mark 9:45 And if your foot offend you, cut if off: it is better to you to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched.
Mark 9:48 where their worm does not die and the fire is not quenched.
Luke 3:17 His winnowing fork is in his hand, to clear his threshing floor and to gather the wheat into his barn, but the chaff he will burn with unquenchable fire.”
Luke 12:5 But I will warn you whom to fear: fear him who, after he has killed, has authority to cast into hell. Yes, I tell you, fear him!
Luke 16:19-31 “There was a rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and who feasted sumptuously every day. And at his gate was laid a poor man named Lazarus, covered with sores, who desired to be fed with what fell from the rich man's table. Moreover, even the dogs came and licked his sores. The poor man died and was carried by the angels to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried, and in Hades, being in torment, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham far off and Lazarus at his side.
John 5:28-29 Do not marvel at this, for an hour is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear his voice and come out, those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment.
2nd Thessalonians 1:8-9 In flaming fire, inflicting vengeance on those who do not know God and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. They will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might,
Jude 1:7 Just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities, which likewise indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural desire, serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire.
Revelation 14:10 He also will drink the wine of God's wrath, poured full strength into the cup of his anger, and he will be tormented with fire and sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb.
Revelation 14:11 And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever, and they have no rest, day or night, these worshipers of the beast and its image, and whoever receives the mark of its name.
Revelation 19:20 And the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who in its presence had done the signs by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped its image. These two were thrown alive into the lake of fire that burns with sulfur.
Revelation 20:10 And the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
Revelation 20:12-15--- 12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what they had done. 14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. 15 Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.
Revelation 21:8 But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.
Matthew 5:30 And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. For it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body go into hell.
Matthew 8:12 While the sons of the kingdom will be thrown into the outer darkness. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”
Matthew 13:41-42 The Son of Man will send his angels, and they will gather out of his kingdom all causes of sin and all law-breakers, and throw them into the fiery furnace. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Matthew 13:50 And throw them into the fiery furnace. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Matthew 18:9 And if your eye causes you to sin, tear it out and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life with one eye than with two eyes to be thrown into the hell of fire.
Matthew 23:33 You serpents, you brood of vipers, how are you to escape being sentenced to hell?
Matthew 24:51 And will cut him in pieces and put him with the hypocrites. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Matthew 25:41 Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
Matthew 25:46 And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”
Mark 9:43 And if your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life crippled than with two hands to go to hell, to the unquenchable fire.
Mark 9:45 And if your foot offend you, cut if off: it is better to you to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched.
Mark 9:48 where their worm does not die and the fire is not quenched.
Luke 3:17 His winnowing fork is in his hand, to clear his threshing floor and to gather the wheat into his barn, but the chaff he will burn with unquenchable fire.”
Luke 12:5 But I will warn you whom to fear: fear him who, after he has killed, has authority to cast into hell. Yes, I tell you, fear him!
Luke 16:19-31 “There was a rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and who feasted sumptuously every day. And at his gate was laid a poor man named Lazarus, covered with sores, who desired to be fed with what fell from the rich man's table. Moreover, even the dogs came and licked his sores. The poor man died and was carried by the angels to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried, and in Hades, being in torment, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham far off and Lazarus at his side.
John 5:28-29 Do not marvel at this, for an hour is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear his voice and come out, those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment.
2nd Thessalonians 1:8-9 In flaming fire, inflicting vengeance on those who do not know God and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. They will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might,
Jude 1:7 Just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities, which likewise indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural desire, serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire.
Revelation 14:10 He also will drink the wine of God's wrath, poured full strength into the cup of his anger, and he will be tormented with fire and sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb.
Revelation 14:11 And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever, and they have no rest, day or night, these worshipers of the beast and its image, and whoever receives the mark of its name.
Revelation 19:20 And the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who in its presence had done the signs by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped its image. These two were thrown alive into the lake of fire that burns with sulfur.
Revelation 20:10 And the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
Revelation 20:12-15--- 12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what they had done. 14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. 15 Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.
Revelation 21:8 But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
You do not know enough to even lie well.
The Jews do not have a Hell or a Devil or Salvation in there religion.
That does not mean us Yeshua Witnesses don't
PS95
Well-Known Member
ugh this thread..
How's the loved ones, Riven? any better?
(I still see it says, grandmother. I dont see an ill grandson anywhere! I looked.)
How's the loved ones, Riven? any better?
(I still see it says, grandmother. I dont see an ill grandson anywhere! I looked.)
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
The rest is just Jehovah’s Witness rhetoric and I am not interested in a demonic sermon…..save it for preaching in Hell.
“for forgiveness”? JW’s teach this?
No, I think you misunderstand…
“The wages of sin is death (Romans 6:23)” — no torment is mentioned.
However, the hope for our future life - the Resurrection - is through Christ’s sacrifice.
If He hadn’t sacrificed his perfect life for humankind ie., in our behalf, then all humans who’ve died, would stay dead forever.
It really is a simple concept to grasp; Christendom’s adoption of & adherence to pagan Greek and Babylonish teachings is where the difficulty arises.
Thanks, @Aunty Jane , for responding in my stead to the previous post.
It’s wonderful to have the ‘unity of thought’ (1 Corinthians 1:10) which results from Jehovah’s blessing enabling us to speak for each other!
(Even though you’re on another continent.)
