This will be a sign for you:

[Spiritual Israelite]

I think Israel is Home to stay as God foretold! And MANY will perish trying to remove them.

It's clear that you refuse to look at passages like Romans 9:6-8, Galatians 6:15-16 and Ephesians 2:11-22 honestly. That says it all about you. You would rather cherry pick scripture and make it say what you want it to say than to accept what passages like those teach.

 

[Jack]

It's clear that you refuse to look at passages like Romans 9:6-8, Galatians 6:15-16 and Ephesians 2:11-22 honestly. That says it all about you. You would rather cherry pick scripture and make it say what you want it to say than to accept what passages like those teach.

Guess where Jesus will return. It's called Israel! Get a map.

 

[covenantee]

I love you and Israel and all my enemies. That's what Christians do.

Same here. Is love independent of spiritual wisdom, discernment, and discipline?

Who is the Israel that God recognizes as His People?

What are their identifying characteristics?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Guess where Jesus will return. It's called Israel! Get a map.

Tell us again who Jesus will fight for when He returns? Does it agree with who Paul said He will be fighting for when He returns? If not, you better rethink things because Paul knew what he was talking about.

Paul, writing to a mix of Jew and Gentile Christians, said:

2 Thessalonians 1:6 God is just: He will pay back trouble to those who trouble you 7 and give relief to you who are troubled, and to us as well. This will happen when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven in blazing fire with his powerful angels. 8 He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. 9 They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might 10 on the day he comes to be glorified in his holy people and to be marveled at among all those who have believed. This includes you, because you believed our testimony to you.

 

[Keraz]

Wow! Talk about thread diversion!
From what I see in the discussion about who is the true Israel, all of you have some error. God does have a secret; it is the 'lost ten tribes'. They are now the Israel of God by virtue of accepting the Salvation offered by Jesus. But there will be peoples from every tribe, race, nation and language who will occupy all of the holy Land when the Lord clears and cleanses it on the terrible Day of fiery wrath, Zephaniah 1:14-18
THAT is our destiny, as faithful Christians, His witnesses and the Light to the nations.

Jack is a sad case of being sucked in by the false teaching of the 'rapture to heaven'. They have to have the Jews in the holy Land, under tribulation, for their theory to work.
That whole fanciful belief is totally unscriptural and is never Prophesied to happen.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Wow! Talk about thread diversion!
From what I see in the discussion about who is the true Israel, all of you have some error.

Yes, of course you think everyone is wrong except you. You are special.

God does have a secret; it is the 'lost ten tribes'. They are now the Israel of God by virtue of accepting the Salvation offered by Jesus. But there will be peoples from every tribe, race, nation and language who will occupy all of the holy Land when the Lord clears and cleanses it on the terrible Day of fiery wrath, Zephaniah 1:14-18
THAT is our destiny, as faithful Christians, His witnesses and the Light to the nations.

Peter said the new heavens and new earth is our destiny. It's too bad you don't think highly of Peter.

2 Peter 3:13 But in keeping with his promise we are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth, where righteousness dwells.

Jack is a sad case of being sucked in by the false teaching of the 'rapture to heaven'. They have to have the Jews in the holy Land, under tribulation, for their theory to work.
That whole fanciful belief is totally unscriptural and is never Prophesied to happen.

Well, there's something we can agree on, at least.

 

[covenantee]

Appropriately scathing indictment by Pastor Chuck Baldwin of racist "christian" zionist John MacArthur.

Essential reading.

 

[Keraz]

Peter said the new heavens and new earth is our destiny. It's too bad you don't think highly of Peter.

2 Peter 3:13 But in keeping with his promise we are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth, where righteousness dwells.

The NH, NE does not come until a thousand years after Jesus Returns.
Our destiny for that time is to live as God always wanted His people to be. Zechariah 14:16-21

It is people who contradict the Prophetic Word, who are wrong. I am just a messenger.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

The NH, NE does not come until a thousand years after Jesus Returns.
Our destiny for that time is to live as God always wanted His people to be. Zechariah 14:16-21

It is people who contradict the Prophetic Word, who are wrong. I am just a messenger.

I am just a messenger, also, and this messenger says you are wrong because Peter indicated that the new heavens and new earth would come about as a direct fulfillment of the promise of Jesus's second coming. If it didn't come about until 1,000 years later then what Peter said in 2 Peter 3:13 would make no sense. And, isn't it interesting that Peter seemed to know nothing about this supposed thousand year earthly kingdom after Christ returns? Why do you supposed that is? I say because there is no such thing. Peter understood Zechariah 14 much better than either of us do and he did not teach anything about any earthly kingdom after Christ's return.

 

[Keraz]

Peter indicated that the new heavens and new earth would come about as a direct fulfillment of the promise of Jesus's second coming.

2 Peter 3:13 does not say that at all. Revelation 21:1` tells us when the NH NE will come - After the Millennium and the GWT Judgment.
There is plenty of Prophesies that confirm the time when Jesus will reign physically on earth. Psalms 2. Isaiah 2:1-4, +

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

2 Peter 3:13 does not say that at all. Revelation 21:1` tells us when the NH NE will come - After the Millennium and the GWT Judgment.
There is plenty of Prophesies that confirm the time when Jesus will reign physically on earth. Psalms 2. Isaiah 2:1-4, +

It says it very specifically. What other promise does Peter refer to in 2 Peter 3:13 except for the promise of Christ's second coming that he had mentioned previously in verse 4?

 

[Keraz]

It says it very specifically. What other promise does Peter refer to in 2 Peter 3:13 except for the promise of Christ's second coming that he had mentioned previously in verse 4?

Peter was Prophesying a sequence of events, which end with the New heaven and earth.
You directly oppose Revelation 20 and 21:1-7, to believe as you do.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Peter was Prophesying a sequence of events, which end with the New heaven and earth.

Show me that, please. Put your money where your mouth is for once and exegete some scripture.

You directly oppose Revelation 20 and 21:1-7, to believe as you do.

No, I do not and you are completely incapable of proving that.

 

[Keraz]

Show me that, please. Put your money where your mouth is for once and exegete some scripture.


No, I do not and you are completely incapable of proving that.

What more can I say? Peter is giving us a sequence of events, simple as that.
They do not and cannot all happen on the same day.

You flat out deny a literal thousand year reign of King Jesus.
We are told elsewhere that twice mentioned, or two witnesses, is sufficient to confirm the truth. Rev 6 gives us the truth of the thousand year Millennium SIX times. This is absolute confirmation and is also provable in other scriptures.

The truth of when the New earth comes in clearly stated in Rev 21:1 AFTER the Millennium and AFTER the GWT Judgment.
For Eternity, as is logical and obviously how it should be.

 

[Timtofly]

Is that your only takeaway from it? What does it mean to say that "not all who are descended from Israel are Israel"? Obviously, all who are descended from the nation of Israel are national Israel since that is only dependent on being a physical descendant and not dependent on whether someone has faith or not, so it can't mean what you think it means.

Paul is referring to some other Israel here of which not all from the nation of Israel are part. There is no other way to interpret what he said that can make any sense. What is the reason for your hesitancy to acknowledge the existence of another Israel which many of us call "Spiritual Israel" or "The Israel of God" (Galatians 6:16)?

God reserves the right to remove those of Israel, and they are no longer Israel.

Paul is referring to them no longer being a part of Israel.

God did not cast off Israel, but set them to the side, for a couple of days. Many were cut off because of unbelief. The majority will cease being any ethnicity but cast into the LOF.

There is not another Israel.

If you accept there are more than one Israel, do you also accept more than one bride of Christ?

 

[Timtofly]

I am just a messenger, also, and this messenger says you are wrong because Peter indicated that the new heavens and new earth would come about as a direct fulfillment of the promise of Jesus's second coming. If it didn't come about until 1,000 years later then what Peter said in 2 Peter 3:13 would make no sense. And, isn't it interesting that Peter seemed to know nothing about this supposed thousand year earthly kingdom after Christ returns? Why do you supposed that is? I say because there is no such thing. Peter understood Zechariah 14 much better than either of us do and he did not teach anything about any earthly kingdom after Christ's return.

Why do you suppose you dismiss the point Peter did make in the chapter including a thousand year reference?

Did you symbolically rip that portion out with your own view of interpretation?

Peter did know, and even told you all not to be ignorant in your own private interpretation.

"But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day."

"But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night."

It is right there, that a thousand year period is coming like a thief in the night, to surprise all those nay sayers. All those people not willing to be as patient and longsuffering as God is.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

What more can I say? Peter is giving us a sequence of events, simple as that.

You can show how exactly you are coming to that conclusion. I'm not seeing that in 2 Peter 3. Can you show me that? If you want to be taken seriously, you should be able to clearly show how you are coming to that conclusion. Just making claims about it is useless and meaningless without being able to back it up.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Why do you suppose you dismiss the point Peter did make in the chapter including a thousand year reference?

Who said I dismissed it? Only you. Peter made a point about how long it's taking for Jesus to return and he indicated that to the Lord it's not taking long at all because time has no effect on Him. No amount of time including a day or a thousand years makes any difference to Him since He created time and exists outside of time. To read any more into 2 Peter 3:8-9 beyond that is a case of either doctrinal bias or a lack of discernment about what 2 Peter 3:8 means in context. The context of that verse can be seen in the verse that immediately follows it. It only relates to how much time it's taking for Jesus to return. Some might say it's taking Him a long time, but Peter said He is not being slow from His perspective since time has no effect on Him.

 

[Keraz]

You can show how exactly you are coming to that conclusion. I'm not seeing that in 2 Peter 3. Can you show me that? If you want to be taken seriously, you should be able to clearly show how you are coming to that conclusion. Just making claims about it is useless and meaningless without being able to back it up.

Revelation 21:1 proves the New heavens and new earth come after the Millennium and the final Judgment.
2 Peter 3:7 & 10 refer to the Sixth Seal event and 2 Peter 3:11-13. to the NH, NE.
This is the sequence as given and is perfectly sensible and logical.

However; those willing to ignore or dismiss plainly stated Prophecy, in order to suit their beliefs, have other ideas. All will eventually be revealed and those who got it wrong will be embarrassed, that's all.
Excepting for those who teach false theories and wrong doctrines; James 3:1

 

[strepho]

Malachi chapter 4.
God will spare the obedience.
Disobedience God won't spare.
Those who serve God, and those who wont.
Psalm chapter 9.
Wicked go to sheol, called hell. It's holding place for the spirtualty dead or wicked until judgement day.

Romans chapter 6.
Distinction between servant of righteousness and servant of Sin.

Disobedience people have spot in hell.
Those who repent and love and serve God have eternal life.

Ezekiel chapter 3
Unless the wicked repent and conform to God's standard. There going to hell.

We're in 5th trump.
Devil as antichrist comes 6th trump.

Thessalonians chapter 5 tells us not to be children of darkness. Sudden destruction shall overcome them.

Servants of righteousness are children of light. We have gospel armory on.

Children of darkness are biblically illiterate. They're not prepared for antichrist.

Easy to understand.

Those following false preachers are on path to Hell.