Elect or Not Elect: Why ALL Should Be Alarmed

[Eternally Grateful]

There now, you butchered every single verse in a vain attempt to make them support your false religious view.

You say here that it doesn't depend on man who wills, but in other places you make it sound like everything depends on mans faith. You can't have it both ways, salvation is either all of the Lord, or it's a joint effort between God and man.

Talking to thew twelve is not the same as talking about the twelve, Judas i a Devil. He was never saved and he never will be saved so you need to go back and study that.

You are wrong about John 17: 6 because it proves that your works gospel is false.

You are dead wrong about Paul referring to the Jews when He quoted God saying "Esau I have hated while he was in his mothers womb". The reference was about Esau not being one of Gods elect, while his brother was. Don't go adding this nonsense to what God clearly said.

You're dead wrong about God loving the nation of Israel, that is absolute in your face heresy. God never loved any nation, He only loves Himself and those whoa re in Christ and that is the Israel of God. Not some nation that killed all of His prophets, what's there to love about God haters and murderers.
God never hated Edom, that's another one of your heresies. He saved many Edomites so, you can't say He hated people He loved enough to save.

God did not choose me through sanctification, or faith or for trusting in His Son. These things were applied after God saved me, so you have twisted it to read backwards which is typical of those who reject Gods Word as it was spoken. That proves me right, thank you!!!...

You're dead wrong about God offering salvation and some rejecting it, and your dead wrong about some sending themselves to hell. Nobody choses to go to hell, they are all cast into hell begging for mercy but God only shows them His wrath.
God never offered salvation to anyone, so you're dead wrong as usual. He either saved you before He created the world or you will never be saved. So this idea that God offers salvation is pure heresy.

"SAVED THROUGH FAITH"????? big question you keep dodging is who's faith are you saved through. Were you born with it, or did you manufacture it yourself or was it given to you by God. If you admit it was given to you, then stop making it yours and boasting in your faith because it's not yours at all and your pride will condemn you if you don't repent of it.

You butchered every single one of these verses, because they all expose your heretical theology.

For everyone reading the conversation this shows you the difference between us

I posted a bunch of verses and crickets except one comment I did not read John 3 right he posts a bunch of verses and I broke each of them down. And then he pulled his Calvinist twist (your butchered)

I will no longer feed the troll

 

[JBO]

And regarding Acts in particular, remember something from Acts 13 ~ verse 48 in particular ~ that is often overlooked but very, very important about our belief: "...when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord, and as many as were appointed to eternal life believed."

The common translation/interpretation of Acts 13:48 is wrong. First the statement that they were appointed to eternal life stands in direct contrast and conflict with verse 46 where the blaspheming Jews "judged themselves" i.e., decided for themselves to reject eternal life.

So how can that be? It comes from a faulty translation of the Greek word τεταγμενοι [tetagmenoi] which is a form of the word τάσσω [tassō] meaning to arrange, to assign, to determine, to appoint. that particular form of the word "tasso" is in the passive mode and that is how it is commonly translated, i.e., "as many as were appointed...". The problem arises because, as the case is for many Greek verbs, the passive voice and the middle voice take the exact same form. There is not comparable middle voice form of a verb in English. Rather the middle form takes of the active voice of the subject being the same as the object. For example, "He hit me" is in the active voice; "I was hit" is in the passive voice; "I hit myself" is in the middle voice but has the verb form of the active verb.

In the Greek the word "tetagmenoi" may be translated either in the passive voice or the middle voice. Whether it is translated in the passive voice or the middle voice derives only from the context of the passage. Given verse 46 in which the unbelieving Jews rejected Paul's teaching and rejected eternal life, it only makes sense that the believing Gentiles accepted Paul's teaching and appointed themselves (the middle voice of the verb "tasso") to eternal life.

Now just to add some credence to my point here, the very same form of the Greek verb "tasso" is found in Acts 20:13

Act 20:13 But we, going ahead to the ship, set sail for Assos, intending from there to take Paul on board; for so he had arranged it, intending himself to go by land.

The verb "tasso" (with the prefix "dis") appears there [διατεταγμενος] and in context is translated/interpreted in the middle voice. Paul arranged it for himself or Paul appointed for himself to go by land.

In the same way, the context of Acts 13:48 better estatblished that the Gentiles believed Paul's teaching and selected eternal life for themselves.. It is bes translated/interpreted in the middle voice, not the passive voice.

 

[Ritajanice]

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◄ 1 John 4 ►

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Berean Standard Bible Par ▾ Testing the Spirits 1Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God. For many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2By this you will know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, 3and every spirit that does not confess Jesusa is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and which is already in the world at this time. 4You, little children, are from God and have overcome them, because greater is He who is in you than he who is in the world. 5They are of the world. That is why they speak from the world’s perspective, and the world listens to them. 6We are from God. Whoever knows God listens to us; whoever is not from God does not listen to us. That is how we know the Spiritb of truth and the spirit of deception. Love Comes from God 7Beloved, let us love one another, because love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God. 8Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love. 9This is how God’s love was revealed among us: God sent His one and onlyc Son into the world, so that we might live through Him. 10And love consists in this: not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son as the atoning sacrificedfor our sins. 11Beloved, if God so loved us, we also ought to love one another. 12No one has ever seen God; but if we love one another, God remains in us, and His love is perfected in us. 13By this we know that we remain in Him, and He in us: He has given us of His Spirit. 14And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent His Son to be the Savior of the world. 15If anyone confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God. 16And we have come to know and believe the love that God has for us. God is love; whoever abides in love abides in God, and God in him. 17In this way, love has been perfected among us, so that we may have confidence on the day of judgment; for in this world we are just like Him. 18There is no fear in love, but perfect love drives out fear, because fear involves punishment. The one who fears has not been perfected in love. 19We loveebecause He first loved us. 20If anyone says, “I love God,” but hates his brother, he is a liar. For anyone who does not love his brother, whom he has seen, cannot love God, whom he has not seen. 21And we have this commandment from Him: Whoever loves God must love his brother as well.

 

[JBO]

Yes, ritajanice, that is in the ESV, the NASB, etc., etc. So why did you bother to copy it here? What do you think it all means in the context of the discussion at hand?

 

[Ritajanice]

Father forgive their ignorance!.

You chose us before the foundation of the world.....that is to honour your power and to your Glory Father God.

Praise your Holy Name Father God....nothing in ourselves it’s all of you Lord.

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◄ 1 Corinthians 2 ►

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Berean Standard Bible Par ▾ Paul’s Message by the Spirit’s Power 1When I came to you, brothers, I did not come with eloquence or wisdom as I proclaimed to you the testimony about God. 2For I resolved to know nothing while I was with you except Jesus Christ and Him crucified. 3I came to you in weakness and fear, and with much trembling. 4My message and my preaching were not with persuasive words of wisdom, but with a demonstration of the Spirit’s power, 5so that your faith would not rest on men’s wisdom, but on God’s power. Spiritual Wisdom (Ephesians 1:15–23) 6Among the mature, however, we speak a message of wisdom—but not the wisdom of this age or of the rulers of this age, who are coming to nothing. 7No, we speak of the mysterious and hidden wisdom of God,a which He destined for our glory before time began. 8None of the rulers of this age understood it. For if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. 9Rather, as it is written: “No eye has seen, no ear has heard, no heart has imagined, what God has prepared for those who love Him.”b 10But God has revealed it to us by the Spirit. The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God. 11For who among men knows the thoughts of man except his own spirit within him? So too, no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. 12We have not received the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has freely given us. 13And this is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom, but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words.c 14The natural man does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God. For they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned. 15The spiritual man judges all things, but he himself is not subject to anyone’s judgment. 16“For who has known the mind of the Lord, so as to instruct Him?”d But we have the mind of Christ.

 

[JBO]

Father forgive their ignorance!.

You chose your elect before the foundation of the world.

Yes, of course, but on what basis did He choose His elect? Try reading and understanding 1 Peter 1:1-2.

 

[Ritajanice]

We are spirit children of the most high...we know God in our hearts/ spirit...by divine revelation..

Born Again by the Spirit of God..there is no honour or privilege above being a spirit child of God....unfortunately those in ignorance have no understanding of such spiritual matters....only God can remove their blinkers and open the heart to receive his Spirit...“He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world.” God's will was purposed from the very beginning, even before we were brought into existence, even before the world came to be. God had given thought to “us” and planned our destiny through Christ to be the adopted sons and daughters of God (Eph 1:5).

You must be Born Again to see the Kingdom Of God.....
Spirit gives birth to spirit...in Jesus Name....Amen!



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◄ Ephesians 1 ►

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Berean Standard Bible Par ▾ Paul’s Greeting to the Ephesians (Acts 19:8–12; Revelation 2:1–7) 1Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, To the saints in Ephesus,a the faithful in Christ Jesus: 2Grace and peace to you from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. Spiritual Blessings (Romans 8:28–34) 3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly realms. 4For He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world to be holy and blameless in His presence. In love 5He predestined us for adoption as His sons through Jesus Christ, according to the good pleasure of His will, 6to the praise of His glorious grace, which He has freely given us in the Beloved One. 7In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace 8that He lavished on us with all wisdom and understanding. 9And He has made known to us the mystery of His will according to His good pleasure, which He purposed in Christ 10as a plan for the fullness of time, to bring all things in heaven and on earth together in Christ. 11In Him we were also chosen as God’s own, having been predestined according to the plan of Him who works out everything by the counsel of His will, 12in order that we, who were the first to hope in Christ, would be for the praise of His glory. 13And in Him, having heard and believed the word of truth—the gospel of your salvation—you were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, 14who is the pledge of our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession, to the praise of His glory. Spiritual Wisdom (1 Corinthians 2:6–16) 15For this reason, ever since I heard about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints, 16I have not stopped giving thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers, 17that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you a spirit of wisdom and revelation in your knowledge of Him. 18I ask that the eyes of your heartb may be enlightened, so that you may know the hope of His calling, the riches of His glorious inheritance in the saints, 19and the surpassing greatness of His power to us who believe. These are in accordance with the working of His mighty strength, 20which He exerted in Christ when He raised Him from the dead and seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly realms, 21far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. 22And God put everything under His feet and made Him head over everything for the church, 23which is His body, the fullness of Him who fills all in all.

 

[JLB]

This passage talks about bearing fruit.

Not about keeping oneself saved.

The instruction from the Lord Jesus Christ is about remaining "in Him".


If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6


Here is how this same John instructs us to remain in Christ.


Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. 1 John 3:24




JLB

 

[JLB]

So you agree that the born again believers can never be cast out or cut off, because they truly abide in Him and not only, by their confession or lip service as false converts do.

• People who are in Christ must remain in Him.

If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6

• Here is how this same John instructs us to remain in Christ.

Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. 1 John 3:24

 

[JBO]

Spirit gives birth to spirit...in Jesus Name....Amen!​

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Yes, of course, Spirit gives birth to spirit. Who is without a spirit? The spirit of man is what separates him from the whole rest of the animal kingdom. Everyone has a spirit. Everyone gets born with a spirit. That spirit is from God.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

The instruction from the Lord Jesus Christ is about remaining "in Him".


If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6


Here is how this same John instructs us to remain in Christ.


Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. 1 John 3:24




JLB

So we are under law not under grace

Why do people want to put us under law. That’s as bad as fatalism if Not worse

 

[Eternally Grateful]

• People who are in Christ must remain in Him.

If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6

• Here is how this same John instructs us to remain in Christ.

Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. 1 John 3:24

We abide to produce fruit. Not to stay saved. That’s legalism. We can’t do this God keeps us we do not keep our self

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Yes, of course, Spirit gives birth to spirit. Who is without a spirit? The spirit of man is what separates him from the whole rest of the animal kingdom. Everyone has a spirit. Everyone gets born with a spirit. That spirit is from God.

Actually no. That which is spirit is spirit spirit gives birth to people. People are born again I was dead in sin I was made alive

 

[JBO]

Actually no. That which is spirit is spirit spirit gives birth to people. People are born again I was dead in sin I was made alive

So you do not think your spirit comes from God. Interesting. Who else to you think as the power to make, form or create our spirits? Did you not have a spirit before being born again?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

So you do not think your spirit comes from God. Interesting. Who else to you think as the power to make, form or create our spirits? Did you not have a spirit before being born again?

I was saved. My spirit is me. Why does this seem so hard for people to understand? I will go to heaven won’t you?

As Jesus said that (me) which was born of spirit is spirit that which is born of flesh is flesh.

Spirit does not Give birth to spirit. Ritajanice loves quoting that it does not say that

 

[JBO]

I was saved. My spirit is me. Why does this seem so hard for people to understand? I will go to heaven won’t you?

You didn't answer my question. I am not sure why. Perhaps you don't really know the answer, or you don't like the answer and don't want to state it.

You have a body; it came from your parents. You have a spirit; that didn't come from your parents. Flesh does not beget spirit. So then, where did your spirit come from and when did you receive it?

 

[Christian Soldier]

Dude. You are all over the place are you sure you’re not Catholic. You are just like them you hear what you want to here interpret that you you want and then make an utter fool of yourself when you respond by proving you did not hear a word anyone said

I said I test the spirits. Just like God commanded me to

I said I study to show myself approved a workman that needs not be ashamed. Rightly dividing the word of truth

Not like you who does not test the soirits and evidently does not study to show yourself approved even when you read what others say.

Yes I am a member of the One Holy Catholic Church, which is the body of Christ. you obviously don't even know what the word "Catholic" means, I'm not a Roman Catholic. You need to learn what the difference is before you abuse the word.

OK, so you test the spirits and who has denied that Christ has come in the flesh. I don't know of anyone who has denied it here so, why did you bring that up???

Why did you bring up the verse about how a Minister is approved to God. You're obviously not a Minister or Pastor or Teacher, so why are you pretending to be one. You keep taking verses out of their intended context and applying them to yourself, that is abusing the scripture. At least you are consistent in that, you have never rightly divided the word of truth yet.

It's foolish to suggest that I don't test the spirits, there's nothing mysterious or complicated about it, if any spirit denies that Christ did not come, he is not of God. How simple is that, a 5 year old child can discern that.

I'm not training to become a Minister, Pastor or Teacher. So it's foolish to apply that verse regarding Ministers showing themselves aproved to me or yourself. We are just dumb Sheep, that verse was written to Shepherds and not Sheep, so you should think about what you say before you make a complete fool of yourself.

 

[JBO]

We abide to produce fruit. Not to stay saved. That’s legalism. We can’t do this God keeps us we do not keep our self

We are saved by grace through faith. We stay saved by grace through faith. And the saved are no less required to obey God's law than are the unsaved. We are not under the law for salvation, but we are under the law for living the Christian life.

 

[Christian Soldier]

This is my last post to you. I am putting you in my prayer bin. I will give you some advice

1 my faith did not save me God did. Because like the tax collector who became poor in spirit and got on his knees and cried out for gods mercy. Who went home justified

You do not have to know anyone else God chose. You still boast in the fact god chose you. Like arminians and Catholics and other legalistic churches it’s all about you and what ever you did (you just deny you did anything but your still special because God chose you! I can’t help you see this. No one can if you do not humble yourself. I have yet to see a humble bone in your body since you came in here charging like a lion to devour people who reject your theology. You prove my point just be speaking

And here is the second reason I am ignoring you. You said I do not understand John 3. Then failed to tell me what about John 3 I dis
Not understand. And then puked out your Calvinist twist. And you ignored evert other passage I posted which proves we are saved atHROUGH (not by) faith. That without faith it is impossible. god will not force his salvation on you

Good day

It's obvious to me that you have no capacity to discern the Word of God, I don't hold that against you. I believe you have fallen to false doctrine which has blinded you to the truth.
You continuously reject the truth of the gospel, and cling to the false man centered gospel. I believe you do it out of fear, because the true gospel is to terrible for you to accept.

Please don't add me to your prayer bin, as I don't believe God hears the prayers of those who reject His Word and refuse correction.
I will pray for you in a general sense, a I do for everyone who I consider to be lost. I pray that God opens your eyes to His truth and that He would make you see that you're totally dependent on Him in all things and you have nothing to offer Him. Your faith is as filthy rags in His sight, so you should dump the idea that it will save you in your prayer bin.

 

[Christian Soldier]

You are proclaiming is that God is incapable of effectively communicating with the unregenerate. Either that or God intentionally chooses to not effectively communicate with the unregenerate. In that case, there can be no blame attached to the unregenerate for the failure to obey God. The blame must be God, Himself. That is an affront to God and is definitely false.

That's your private opinion, but Gods Word refutes your opinion because you failed to consider the elephant in the room.

Your disapproval of God's sovereignty, in election and predestination is unwarranted. So, before you blame God for the sins of wicked men, you should ask yourself the obvious question and that is. "Why doesn't God cast everyone into hell", because that would make Him a just and righteous God.

Everyone deserves to be cast into hell, but God has chosen to save a remnant for Himself and people like you accuse Him of unrighteousness for it. You should accuse Him of unrighteousness, for saving anyone.

People like you want to put God on trial, as if you had some authority to question anything God does. The truth is, your opinion of what He does is an abomination in His sight. Nobody in the universe has any right or jurisdiction, to ask God anything at all. We are commanded to trust and obey, so if we stick our nose into His business we end up being cast into the lake of fire.

I'm happy list a bunch of scriptures to prove what I've said if required but I believe it's not necessary as it should be obvious to anyone who has studied the Bible.