Alot of people in Israel today worship the beast.
A remnant worship God.
Just like Ezekiel 9
Apostate Israel is Babylon- common sense.
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A remnant worship God.
Just like Ezekiel 9
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
Yep. And it was prophesied they would. Until the time of the gentile is complete. Jerusalem is still desolate. The time of the gentile is not yet completed. We have not seen the time of Jacob’s trouble yet. We will one day, and at the end, She will repent. Just like paul said in romans 11. She is our enemy concerning the gospel. But Beloved concerning the election the gifts and calling of God are irrevocable.
God told abraham, blessed are those who bless you (offspring) cursed are those who curse you.
I would not be the one to curse abraham offspring..
I don't curse Abrahams seed (Christ),but I understand there are many in the land of Israel that do.
No,I wouldn't want to be them either
Galatians 3:16
The promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. Scripture does not say “and to seeds,” meaning many people, but “and to your seed,” meaning one person, who is Christ.
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Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
At the end? Are you saying that you think that all of those who were blinded in Paul's day never repented? That none of them ever repented and were saved, in other words? If so, what do you make of what Paul said here:
Romans 11:11 Again I ask: Did they stumble so as to fall beyond recovery? Not at all! Rather, because of their transgression, salvation has come to the Gentiles to make Israel envious. 12 But if their transgression means riches for the world, and their loss means riches for the Gentiles, how much greater riches will their full inclusion bring! 13 I am talking to you Gentiles. Inasmuch as I am the apostle to the Gentiles, I take pride in my ministry 14 in the hope that I may somehow arouse my own people to envy and save some of them.
No, Paul indicated that those Israelite unbelievers who were blinded were our enemies concerning the gospel, but the elect remnant of believers were beloved. I will color code the following passages to illustrate what I'm saying. Blinded, cut off Israelite unbelievers are shown in blue and the elect remnant of believers are shown in red.
Romans 11:5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace. 6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work. 7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.
Romans 11:28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes. 29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance. For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:
Notice in verse 7 that Paul refers to the "remnant according to the election of grace" as "the election" and then in verse 28 said "as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes". So, he was only referring to the "remnant according to the election of grace" there. Surely, blind people like the Pharisees and scribes that Jesus rebuked in Matthew 23 were not "beloved for the father's sakes". Instead, they were "enemies" for the Gentiles' sakes because the Gentiles "have now obtained mercy through their unbelief".
Agree. God have mercy on anyone who curses Jesus and/or those who belong to Him.
Galatians 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ....For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
Of course, the birth of Christ that ushered in the Day of the Lord the prophets foretell would NOT begin with darkness and gloom. The darkness and gloom the prophets foretell regarding the Day of the Lord will come at the end of the Day of the Lord, not at the beginning. The prophets foretell only of a specific time when a Messiah would come to redeem Israel, calling it the Day of the Lord.
You appear to still be looking for the Messiah to come just as unbelieving Jews are still looking and waiting. The Day of the Lord has a beginning and an end. The Day of the Lord encompasses TIME that began when Christ came to earth a man. When the Gospel of Christ being sent unto all the nations of the world to accomplish the purpose for which it is sent; that is to complete the spiritual Kingdom of God by saving His people, then this TIME that is the Day of the Lord shall be finished and the LAST/FINAL Day of the Lord when Christ returns to earth will come with the sounding of the seventh trumpet that TIME shall be no more! This final day will indeed be darkness and gloom for this earth. For it will be a day of God's fiery wrath falling down from heaven to destroy all that is wicked and all who know NOT Christ.
The final Day of the Lord will NOT usher in more time for this earth, because when Christ returns, He will gather together His saints and the fire of God's wrath will come down to burn up this earth and every living thing left on it. Then there shall be a new earth for Christ and His saints to dwell forever.
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The king of Babylon is relentless.
As the king of Babylon fulfills prophecy of smiting palestinia with his rod,the world looks on.
Agence France-Presse reports that a ministry statement gave an updated “toll of the horrific occupation (Israeli) massacre” at the al-Mawasi camp, up from at least 20 it initially said were killed, as Israel said it was looking into the incident
Isaiah 14
29 Rejoice not thou, whole Palestina, because the rod of him that smote thee is broken: for out of the serpent's root shall come forth a cockatrice, and his fruit shall be a fiery flying serpent.
How surprised will the world be when the Medes suddenly destroy Babylon on the day of the Lord?
As the king of Babylon fulfills prophecy of smiting palestinia with his rod,the world looks on.
At least 71 Palestinians killed in Israeli attack in Khan Younis, says Gaza health ministry
Gaza’s health ministry said on Saturday at least 71 Palestinians were killed in an Israeli attack in Khan Younis on a camp for war displaced in southern Gaza, adding that 289 others were injured.Agence France-Presse reports that a ministry statement gave an updated “toll of the horrific occupation (Israeli) massacre” at the al-Mawasi camp, up from at least 20 it initially said were killed, as Israel said it was looking into the incident
Isaiah 14
29 Rejoice not thou, whole Palestina, because the rod of him that smote thee is broken: for out of the serpent's root shall come forth a cockatrice, and his fruit shall be a fiery flying serpent.
How surprised will the world be when the Medes suddenly destroy Babylon on the day of the Lord?
Yes, I agree the NT speaks of this time the Old Testament prophets foretell as the Day of the Lord when the promised Messiah would come AGAIN, and all that is written concerning Him would then be utterly fulfilled then. The NT references as "these last days" or "the last time" will be the final day of this time the prophets foretell coming as the Day of the Lord. II keep referring to the advent of Christ coming to earth a man as the Day of the Lord because using the same definition the prophets did confirms fulfillment of the prophesy given us from Old. In this way we can make a distinction between the progression of time that began with the first advent of Christ, the promised Messiah, and the last day of this time when the seventh trumpet shall sound that time shall be no longer.
Millennialists can only see the second coming of Christ as the Day of the Lord. But that creates a problem because all that is written to come to pass when the Messiah came can only be accomplished in time. That's why Millennialists imagine one thousand more literal years of time for this earth when Christ would establish an earthly kingdom and rule and reign from earthly Jerusalem. The Millennialists doctrine can only work if the Day of the Lord that is coming is NOT the end of time.
Messiah reigning in the land of Israel is forever once he is come.The 1000 years In revelation 20 is only the amount of time from.the time of Christs coming and the first resurection to the time when Gog comes against Israel in Ezekiel 38-39.
Even then is not the end of time.
Ezekiel 37
22 And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all.
23 Neither shall they defile themselves any more with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions: but I will save them out of all their dwellingplaces, wherein they have sinned, and will cleanse them: so shall they be my people, and I will be their God.
24 And David my servant shall be king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, and do them.
25 And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children's children for ever: and my servant David shall be their prince for ever.
Revelation chapter 18.
Babylon is confusion. One world political system is coming near future.
Revelation chapter 13
One world political system receives deadly at 6th trump.
Devil as antichrist will come 6th trump, and take over one world religious system.
2nd thessalonians chapter 2
Satan is son of perdition. He will come 6th trump to Jerusalem as antichrist.
He comes in peacefully, not on war horse.
Revelation is 7.
Those who have seal of God won't worship antichrist near future.
Those who are biblically illiterate will worship antichrist near future.
Studying sound doctrine, will get you out of confusion. Knowledge of Gods word is gospel armour. Those in confusion, are biblically illiterate.
Without gospel armory on, many will worship antichrist 6th trump. James chapter 1.
Babylon is confusion. One world political system is coming near future.
Revelation chapter 13
One world political system receives deadly at 6th trump.
Devil as antichrist will come 6th trump, and take over one world religious system.
2nd thessalonians chapter 2
Satan is son of perdition. He will come 6th trump to Jerusalem as antichrist.
He comes in peacefully, not on war horse.
Revelation is 7.
Those who have seal of God won't worship antichrist near future.
Those who are biblically illiterate will worship antichrist near future.
Studying sound doctrine, will get you out of confusion. Knowledge of Gods word is gospel armour. Those in confusion, are biblically illiterate.
Without gospel armory on, many will worship antichrist 6th trump. James chapter 1.
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
We've talked about this before, so I'm not going to argue with you about it. I'm simply trying to help avoid confusion. But, you can do what you want, of course.
I understand what you're saying, but when it comes to passages like 1 Thess 5:2-3 and 2 Peter 3:10-12, those clearly do not refer to the day of the Lord as a long period of time but rather as a literal 24 hour day during which, at some point during that day, Jesus will return unexpectedly and deliver "sudden destruction" upon His enemies from which "they shall not escape".
So, my focus is more on showing how "the day of the Lord", as referenced in passages like those, is clearly not a long period of time.
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God decides who possesses that land he has since he first chose it.No one unless God allows it will possesses the holy land and the Holy city Jerusalem.All who want to possesses this land will fail unless God allows it. Its where all of it takes place everything is tied to that little piece of land that millions have died trying to possesses and a uncountable more will die trying to possesses it .Its best if you stay away from that land and not be part of trying to destroy Israel or your going to find yourself on the wrong side when the time comes.God restored Israel and no one will be able to take it away again ever all you have to do is look at the history.Stay out of Gods way and bow to no human these things have to happen.
I agree that no one should try to take it but they should also not try to help the Israeli government.
You wouldn't want to get in God's way when he takes it away and gives it to someone else .
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
How can that happen in light of what Peter described here:
2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. 11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, 12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? 13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
The only way you could be correct about this is if you are using the term "the land of Israel" as another term for "new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness".
Land of Israel isn't going to change.
It will still be in the same place it is now.
New earth is like the earth after the flood destroyed the earth .This time instead a flood of water it will be fire.Thats not going to change the land promised to Abraham for an everlasting possession.It will still be his for an everlasting possession.
Ezekiel 37
25 And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children's children for ever: and my servant David shall be their prince for ever.
Israrl recieves the land in Ezekiel 37 after their resurection and Messiahs reign begins in Ezekiel 37.Gog invades In Ezekiel 38 and is destroyed in 39.There are many more chapters after that.
I agree. The Day of the Lord referenced in the New Testament points to the final Day (1) of the Lord that is coming. The NT writers need not refer to the coming Day of the Lord as time that began with Christ's first coming, because they and all who came after are witnesses of this truth. But the Old Covenant prophets did not live to see the Day of the Lord come, so their prophecies speak of His coming as the whole New Covenant age. It makes much confusion if one reads the prophets of Old as speaking of the second coming of Christ, especially since they did not live to see the promised Messiah come to earth a man. Why would they write of a second coming when there had not yet been a first coming of the Day/time/era/age of the Lord?
The old testament prophets wrote about the second coming because they were instructed to.These things which take place on the day of the Lord has not been fulfilled.They take place at Christs second coming.If you refuse to listen to the prophets , then you are missing out on much knowledge and understanding.
Zech 14
14 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
3 Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.
6 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark:
7 But it shall be one day which shall be known to the Lord, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light.
8 And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.
9 And the Lord shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one Lord, and his name one.
10 All the land shall be turned as a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem: and it shall be lifted up, and inhabited in her place, from Benjamin's gate unto the place of the first gate, unto the corner gate, and from the tower of Hananeel unto the king's winepresses.
11 And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited.
12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.
This never took.place.These nations that attack Jerusalem at the time of the end have not been consumed yet.
The Old Testament prophets wrote of the coming Day of the Lord when the promised Messiah would come to redeem His people. They do not prophesy of a second coming of Christ. They prophesy of what would come to pass AFTER His coming. The prophecies are rightly understood when we realize they cover all time that began with the advent of the promised Messiah's coming that will not end until the consummation of time given this earth when the last trumpet sounds. There shall be no more time after the sounding of the seventh trumpet, because then time shall be no longer!
False
As I stated.
This has never been fulfilled
Zech 14
14 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
3 Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.
6 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark:
7 But it shall be one day which shall be known to the Lord, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light.
8 And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.
9 And the Lord shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one Lord, and his name one.
10 All the land shall be turned as a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem: and it shall be lifted up, and inhabited in her place, from Benjamin's gate unto the place of the first gate, unto the corner gate, and from the tower of Hananeel unto the king's winepresses.
11 And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited.
12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.
None of this has been fulfilled.
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
I fully agree. Futurists repeatedly relate OT prophecies related to the first coming of Christ to His second coming instead and it's sad to see. They don't allow the NT to shine light on the OT prophecies for them, so they are completely ignorant of what the NT teaches. This is why I sometimes wonder if Judaism is more appealing than Christianity for some of these people. They seem to have no idea of what is taught in the NT and they seem to view OT prophecies no differently than the Pharisees did in terms of what they expected the Messiah to do (Such as setting up an earthly kingdom and things like that. Disclaimer: I'm not saying they are like the Pharisees in every way, but rather only in their perspective on Bible prophecy).
So you believe all of israels enemies which came against Jerusalem In Christs first coming were all consumed as they stood upon their feet?
Is there any reason why anyone else should believe this was fulfilled in Christs first coming?
Zech 14
12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.
Exactly what year were they all consumed?
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