Reader Poll - Where did the Bible come from?

[GodsGrace]

I thought the western Church worked independently of the eastern churches.
That the canon was a product of the western Church and carried their doctrinal biases in translation.

]

I don't know this.... Not that I know a lot about church history - just a little.
I don't believe there started to be problems between the East and West until about 800 or so until the final schism in 1,000AD.

If you know differently, I sure would like to see some writing on it.
I don't think there is any.

As to doctrinal bias....yes, this I know about - but it was in general.
Like, for instance, some say that Matthew 28:19 was added in to support the Trinity.
But I don't believe this because it's in alignment with the rest of the NT.
There's a verse that is definetly added,,,but I can't think of it right now.
Maybe the one about how Peter would die....
John 21:19

But I don't put this verse forth as fact ---
I'd have to look it up to be sure.

 

[St. SteVen]

I see that you're Christian and are asking the same questions that atheists ask.

Yes, I get a lot of push-back on that, But there are also some that appreciate it.
It rubs the fur of the status quo in the wrong direction. - LOL
Discomfort is noted.

]

 

[St. SteVen]

As to doctrinal bias....yes, this I know about - but it was in general.

KJO fans make accusations against the NIV about the verses that were left out. - LOL
Turns out the the skipped verses should not have been there in the first place.
Thankfully the NIV kept the same verse order.

]

 

[BarneyFife]

Yes, I get a lot of push-back on that, But there are also some that appreciate it.
It rubs the fur of the status quo in the wrong direction. - LOL
Discomfort is noted.

]

Do you think there could be any application of Romans 14:1 here? :)

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[GodsGrace]

KJO fans make accusations against the NIV about the verses that were left out. - LOL
Turns out the the skipped verses should not have been there in the first place.
Thankfully the NIV kept the same verse order.

]

Yes, well you know the truth is that A LOT has been discovered since the "official" - straight from God - KJV was printed.
Thank God for it, don't get me wrong, but it's time to move on.
Although I do love the poetic sound of it.
And I even remember some verses in the KJV!

It's too easy to misunderstand some verses,
and it has to be TRANSLATED (!) before you even get to the understanding.

Hope the letters don't start rolling in....

 

[GodsGrace]

Do you think there could be any application of Romans 14:1 here? :)

.

Why?
Who is judging who?
We're just agreeing that MAYBE, the bible has some inconsistencies in it and that should not affect our faith.

Persons who think the bible is written straight by God,,,,will have their faith tested if they learn of just one "mistake".

 

[Wick Stick]

The ECFs were both Eastern and Western.
When the bible was compiled, in the 4th century,
there was no split between the two.

There wasn't an official split at that time, but the two had already begun diverging in their doctrines.

Once the Bible was translated into Latin, the western church leaned heavily on the Vulgate, while the Eastern church continued reading in Greek. And Jerome himself was highly influential regarding which books came to be regarded as canonical.

 

[GodsGrace]

There wasn't an official split at that time, but the two had already begun diverging in their doctrines.

Once the Bible was translated into Latin, the western church leaned heavily on the Vulgate, while the Eastern church continued reading in Greek. And Jerome himself was highly influential regarding which books came to be regarded as canonical.

Jerome didn't do such a good job of translating the bible.

As to the rest, yes, I agree, but I'm not sure it was as far back as the 4th century when the bible was compiled.
Do you think this was about the time that the Holy Spirit controversy began when it was accepted that He was God?
I can't think of any other doctrine that was disagreed on at this time...

 

[Wick Stick]

Jerome didn't do such a good job of translating the bible.

I'm not a fan either. His creation of a secondary class of Scripture ("deuterocanon") has had long-reaching effects that aren't good. And he appears to have been influenced by the Jews of his day, who were anti-Christian in some of their positions.

As to the rest, yes, I agree, but I'm not sure it was as far back as the 4th century when the bible was compiled.
Do you think this was about the time that the Holy Spirit controversy began when it was accepted that He was God?
I can't think of any other doctrine that was disagreed on at this time...

Quite a few doctrines were still being hashed out at that time. A quick Google search says, "Arianism is considered one of the Great Heresies of the 4th century, along with Nestorianism, Eutychianism, and Apollinarianism."

Arianism led to the Nicene council, and we can't say much about that here, but Nestorianism was a big deal as well. It resulted in a full-fledged schism, with Nestorius followers re-locating eastward. His teachings still influence the Syrian Orthodox church, to this day.

Nestorianism - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[GodsGrace]

I'm not a fan either. His creation of a secondary class of Scripture ("deuterocanon") has had long-reaching effects that aren't good. And he appears to have been influenced by the Jews of his day, who were anti-Christian in some of their positions.


Quite a few doctrines were still being hashed out at that time. A quick Google search says, "Arianism is considered one of the Great Heresies of the 4th century, along with Nestorianism, Eutychianism, and Apollinarianism."

Arianism led to the Nicene council, and we can't say much about that here, but Nestorianism was a big deal as well. It resulted in a full-fledged schism, with Nestorius followers re-locating eastward. His teachings still influence the Syrian Orthodox church, to this day.

Nestorianism - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Thanks for the link.
I can hardly remember all the heresies.
But, yes, Arianism was a big one.
Gnosticism another -- already around at the time of John.
He meant the gnostics when he said that if they were of us , they would not have left us.
1 John 2:19

 

[One 2 question]

God has spoken, inspired, and preserved His Word so that we can trust it as being genuine and reliable.

With His Spirit, the Bible is His appointed, essential source of Truth.

Yes, direct revelation is a rich resource, but Scripture is an essential moderator.

How did you or whoever you got it from come to this conclusion?
Who said God appointed a book as His Spirit's source of Truth? And in your mind is it the 66, 73 or 81 book collection?

I get tired of this false teaching and practice of putting restraints on our Creators. Or should I say, trying to restrain the uncontrollable Spirit Who moves wherever He wants.
Thankfully the Spirit is very patient with us.

Another part of me is sad for these people who try to hold back what is impossible to contain. The likes of myself and other freedom fighters are successfully setting captives free from the prisons organised religion has set up. As we are possessed and empowered by Him, together we are enlightening others so that they are being led beyond the extremely limited bibles and finding Truth as they maintain their relationship with this amazing Spirit of God.

The Spirit in us will not be contained, controlled, restrained except by Him Who He is subjected to, Jesus and His Father.

It's fantastic to observe the Spirit as He continues Jesus's work of setting captives free. We get the privilege of being involved in this ongoing work of Christ through His Spirit delivering those who have been cunningly deceived by corrupted religious leaders. I guess it has been the case throughout the life of the church since the Spirit of Christ first birthed her.

Praise God for His work of building on the teaching of Christ and His Spirit of Truth. That even the religious systems which have erected their walls of containment, together with vigilant armed security, armed with their weapons, their bible of choice, are not able to prevent us from infiltrating their ranks because we are on the side of the Almighty Creators. We, as the children of God, know we cannot lose as we are led by the SPIRIT Who is UNSTOPPABLE! Glory to God!

 

[St. SteVen]

Do you think there could be any application of Romans 14:1 here? :)

Yes! Especially if I can claim that those who disagree with me are weak in faith. - LOL

]

 

[Stumpmaster]

Yes, I get a lot of push-back on that, But there are also some that appreciate it.
It rubs the fur of the status quo in the wrong direction. - LOL
Discomfort is noted.

]

Repent before it is too late and you turn into a troll . . .

 

[Stumpmaster]

How did you or whoever you got it from come to this conclusion?
Who said God appointed a book as His Spirit's source of Truth? And in your mind is it the 66, 73 or 81 book collection?

I get tired of this false teaching and practice of putting restraints on our Creators. Or should I say, trying to restrain the uncontrollable Spirit Who moves wherever He wants.
Thankfully the Spirit is very patient with us.

Another part of me is sad for these people who try to hold back what is impossible to contain. The likes of myself and other freedom fighters are successfully setting captives free from the prisons organised religion has set up. As we are possessed and empowered by Him, together we are enlightening others so that they are being led beyond the extremely limited bibles and finding Truth as they maintain their relationship with this amazing Spirit of God.

The Spirit in us will not be contained, controlled, restrained except by Him Who He is subjected to, Jesus and His Father.

It's fantastic to observe the Spirit as He continues Jesus's work of setting captives free. We get the privilege of being involved in this ongoing work of Christ through His Spirit delivering those who have been cunningly deceived by corrupted religious leaders. I guess it has been the case throughout the life of the church since the Spirit of Christ first birthed her.

Praise God for His work of building on the teaching of Christ and His Spirit of Truth. That even the religious systems which have erected their walls of containment, together with vigilant armed security, armed with their weapons, their bible of choice, are not able to prevent us from infiltrating their ranks because we are on the side of the Almighty Creators. We, as the children of God, know we cannot lose as we are led by the SPIRIT Who is UNSTOPPABLE! Glory to God!

Hi there, @One 2 question .

You are also one 2b questioned.

Why should anyone believe what you say, or agree with what you think, or consider your assessments to be inspired, accurate, authentic, and authoritative?

 

[Carl Emerson]

Who said God appointed a book as His Spirit's source of Truth?

I didn't say that - read my claim again carefully.

I said

"With His Spirit, the Bible is His appointed, essential source of Truth.

Yes, direct revelation is a rich resource, but Scripture is an essential moderator."

 

[One 2 question]

Hi there, @One 2 question .

You are also one 2b questioned.

Why should anyone believe what you say, or agree with what you think, or consider your assessments to be inspired, accurate, authentic, and authoritative?

The answer is simple. Whatever the Spirit wants to achieve through this host He will certainly accomplish. I don't carry any burden here. The overall work is His and all I do is praise God during and after the event for the privilege of being used by Them.

 

[Carl Emerson]

The likes of myself and other freedom fighters are successfully setting captives free from the prisons organised religion has set up.

Do you think God is no longer working in the environment of the institutional church ?

 

[One 2 question]

Do you think God is no longer working in the environment of the institutional church ?

God is working throughout Their creation with no holds barred so yes They are working in every environment including the environment of the institutional church.

 

[Stumpmaster]

God is working throughout Their creation with no holds barred so yes They are working in every environment including the environment of the institutional church.

That doesn't negate the Bible canon, in fact it proves it.

Heb 4:12-16 For the Word of God is living and powerful and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing apart of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. (13) Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in His sight, but all things are naked and opened to the eyes of Him with whom we have to do. (14) Since then we have a great High Priest who has passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession. (15) For we do not have a high priest who cannot be touched with the feelings of our infirmities, but was in all points tempted just as we are, yet without sin. (16) Therefore let us come boldly to the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy and find grace to help in time of need.

 

[One 2 question]

That doesn't negate the Bible canon, in fact it proves it.

Heb 4:12-16 For the Word of God is living and powerful and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing apart of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. (13) Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in His sight, but all things are naked and opened to the eyes of Him with whom we have to do. (14) Since then we have a great High Priest who has passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession. (15) For we do not have a high priest who cannot be touched with the feelings of our infirmities, but was in all points tempted just as we are, yet without sin. (16) Therefore let us come boldly to the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy and find grace to help in time of need.

I'm not sure I know what you mean by what you've written in your post.