Spiritual Warfare

[amigo de christo]

So right brother. Angel of light....... it is a mixture that is sooooo deceptive.

I'm encouraged by your posts.

and now today look at what satan does .
Same thing , same way to decieve .
Has GOD really said YE must beleive in Christ .
NAY sayeth the serpent ye shall not perish if you Believe not , just love , God is love .
IT dont matter if ye BELIEVE or not . HE IS LYING SISTER . HE IS LYING big time .
cause JESUS SAID and IMPLIED THAT IT DO MATTER . but satan says IT DONT matter .
WHICH one ya think i am gonna trust in
the one who tempted eve , OR THE GOD WHO HAD TOLD HER NOT TO DO .
The one who tempts all to cause unbelief OR THE GOD who spoke often about THE DIRE NEED TO BELIEVE .
exactly sister . IF JESUS said it , WE BELEIVE HIM and not men who contradict him .

 

[Episkopos]

Tried to point this out to Epi before, but here goes again:

“Not for ours only but for the sins of the whole world”…..is John saying not for the Jews only but also for the nations……it is talking about the gospel being not for Israel alone but also for the Gentiles. “The Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe” is on this wise…..that He is the Saviour of all men (Jew and Gentile), offered and available to be Saviour for all men if they would believe, and especially Saviour of those who already believe of course.

So how do we know which is the right understanding here……well, looking at the whole counsel of God it shouldn’t be too hard to see which one doesn’t contradict but agrees with other scriptures.

You are selective in your understanding, so you can't see the scale of God's mercy.

If one insists on taking "the whole world" and "all men" as meaning in a strict literal sense, then one would have to include the heinously wicked, that they too are saved apart from faith in Christ and not just unbelieving humble "average" folks who do good to their neighbour (who Epi calls righteous and believes they will be saved apart from faith based on their own righteousness).

That's going too far the other way...without any balance. Peter says that God accepts ALL who DO righteousness and fear Him. If you read the bible without a religious bent you will see the balance. Otherwise you will take an extremist unbalanced view that puts you at the top of the food chain. Can you say...self-interest?

It is God who justifies. He is free to justify whom He wills. Abraham was neither a Christian or a Jew. God looks at the heart. That is NOT understood by those who read the bible and justify themselves by their beliefs. God's mercy rubs them the wrong way.

And then there's reading skills and honesty. I read as you skate around the words from the bible to suit your needs. VERY dishonest. The Saviour of all men ESPECIALLY those who believe...but NOT exclusively those who believe. That means that God decides whom He justifies. Not you.

 

[Lizbeth]

and now today look at what satan does .
Same thing , same way to decieve .
Has GOD really said YE must beleive in Christ .
NAY sayeth the serpent ye shall not perish if you Believe not , just love , God is love .
IT dont matter if ye BELIEVE or not . HE IS LYING SISTER . HE IS LYING big time .
cause JESUS SAID and IMPLIED THAT IT DO MATTER . but satan says IT DONT matter .
WHICH one ya think i am gonna trust in
the one who tempted eve , OR THE GOD WHO HAD TOLD HER NOT TO DO .
The one who tempts all to cause unbelief OR THE GOD who spoke often about THE DIRE NEED TO BELIEVE .
exactly sister . IF JESUS said it , WE BELEIVE HIM and not men who contradict him .

God's love is not like human love. His ways are higher than man's ways...spiritual, not emotional. Straight and true as an arrow, not fickle and changeable and bending in that sense. His love disciplines and chastises....and it punishes and casts out evil! His love is pure so it hates evil and sin. Think we are well warned that this will happen with finality in the end. He will root out of His kingdom all the unbelieving and who do wickedly....tares.

 

[Marvelloustime]

and now today look at what satan does .
Same thing , same way to decieve .
Has GOD really said YE must beleive in Christ .
NAY sayeth the serpent ye shall not perish if you Believe not , just love , God is love .
IT dont matter if ye BELIEVE or not . HE IS LYING SISTER . HE IS LYING big time .
cause JESUS SAID and IMPLIED THAT IT DO MATTER . but satan says IT DONT matter .
WHICH one ya think i am gonna trust in
the one who tempted eve , OR THE GOD WHO HAD TOLD HER NOT TO DO .
The one who tempts all to cause unbelief OR THE GOD who spoke often about THE DIRE NEED TO BELIEVE .
exactly sister . IF JESUS said it , WE BELEIVE HIM and not men who contradict him .

Brother @amigo de christo trenches on. Let the Lord be praised and thanked.

 

[Episkopos]

God's love is not like human love. His ways are higher than man's ways...spiritual, not emotional. Straight and true as an arrow, not fickle and changeable and bending in that sense. His love disciplines and chastises....and it punishes and casts out evil! His love is pure so it hates evil and sin. Think we are well warned that this will happen with finality in the end. He will root out of His kingdom all the unbelieving and who do wickedly....tares.

Especially among those who claim to belong to Him. You would do well to learn more about God's judgments. I already suggested that you go through the parable of the wheat and the tares.

There are two cuts in the parable. A double edged sword...that so MANY have not considered because of a very superficial reading of the bible.

For those who are interested in...saving themselves from a bad end...I suggest my video on..."Are you ready for judgment?" This is very important thing to understand...even a "dire need". ;)

 

[Lizbeth]

You are selective in your understanding, so you can't see the scale of God's mercy.

That's going too far the other way...without any balance. Peter says that God accepts ALL who DO righteousness and fear Him. If you read the bible without a religious bent you will see the balance. Otherwise you will take an extremist unbalanced view that puts you at the top of the food chain. Can you say...self-interest?

It is God who justifies. He is free to justify whom He wills. Abraham was neither a Christian or a Jew. God looks at the heart. That is NOT understood by those who read the bible and justify themselves by their beliefs. God's mercy rubs them the wrong way.

And then there's reading skills and honesty. I read as you skate around the words from the bible to suit your needs. VERY dishonest. The Saviour of all men ESPECIALLY those who believe...but NOT exclusively those who believe. That means that God decides whom He justifies. Not you.

It's not about me, it's about the truth. I'm a marshmallow by nature. But I've had to start growing up and learn about God's justice. And learn that God doesn't exist for and revolve around mankind, but the other way around. We need to balance and understand both His justice as well as His mercy.

No idea how people can fear and obey a God they don't have faith for.

The bible tells us who God justifies and how....and the message is that justification is through faith. That's why the gospel is good news.....God made a way, the only way, a very costly way, for man to be justified.

 

[Marvelloustime]

You want to destroy righteousness, God's mercy, and holiness. All these you rail against in your bid to justify yourself for a belief theory.

You have rejected the true gospel and you mischaracterize the truth as something that not just includes others apart from you..it also excludes you.

Rather than grandstanding and pontificating to virtue signal based on errors...why not engage in the threads you visit, but don't engage in with honesty. Explain your position..and back it up from the bible. If you can. If all you can do is attack people...and rail against the truth by mischaracterization...then don't participate.

Ooooh, brother @amigo de christo, I have boldened and underlined the text that ol’ epidemic wrote about “back it up from the Bible”. Every post that ol’ brother amigo posts is incorporated with biblical scriptures. Brother Amigo knows the Bible so well that he doesn’t just copy and paste scriptures, but rather they are integrated in his posts. If one knows one’s Bible, one would see that ol’ brother Amigo also includes scriptures in his posts. The return of the Lord draws very nigh. As the Bible tells us, let us all examine ourselves and make sure it is the biblical Jesus Christ that we are all believing in and let us all daily read our bibles. Time is very short. Very short indeed. And I for one am not depressed about going home to the Lord. Praise the glorious Lord.

 

[Episkopos]

It's not about me, it's about the truth. I'm a marshmallow by nature. But I've had to start growing up and learn about God's justice. And learn that God doesn't exist for and revolve around mankind, but the other way around. We need to balance and understand both His justice as well as His mercy.

Exactly. But to do that you need to know the Lord and His ways...and that is where you are lacking. It wouldn't cost you anything to consider another viewpoint.

No idea how people can fear and obey a God they don't have faith for.

That's right ...they can't.

The bible tells us who God justifies and how

No it doesn't. We don't get to figure God out...especially when all we have is a very limited brain that becomes infected with one religious ideology or other.

You are always only half right.

It is God who justifies...BUT WE don't decide or have a clue as to whom God will justify. If you we more honest I would ask you to take back the idea that you know HOW God justifies.

The only justification that we can KNOW in this world is to be translated into the kingdom realm of the Spirit. Then we can KNOW we are justified by faith. Otherwise we will only find out on judgment day as many many believers are rejected into outer darkness...full of tears and of anger.

....and the message is that justification is through faith. That's why the gospel is good news.....God made a way, the only way, a very costly way, for man to be justified.

Again, you take a bible passage and try to manipulate its meaning with a still carnal mind. The end of which is disastrous. Lean not on your own understanding. Don't think you know God and His ways just by reading a bible. You need to KNOW HIM for real..and be known of Him...to be where He is.

And even then...nobody knows whom God will justify into the nations of them that are saved. Only the saints know the salvation of God at present. The rest is surmising, assuming and presuming. Even David was careful to never presume with God. The wise do this. Fools rage on and are confident.

Also keep back Your servant from presumptuous sins; Let them not rule and have control over me. Then I will be blameless , And I shall be acquitted of great transgression. Ps. 19:13

 

[Episkopos]

Ooooh, brother @amigo de christo, I have boldened and underlined the text that ol’ epidemic wrote about “back it up from the Bible”. Every post that ol’ brother amigo posts is incorporated with biblical scriptures. Brother Amigo knows the Bible so well that he doesn’t just copy and paste scriptures, but rather they are integrated in his posts.

You are barking up the wrong tree.

If one knows one’s Bible, one would see that ol’ brother Amigo also includes scriptures in his posts. The return of the Lord draws very nigh. As the Bible tells us, let us all examine ourselves and make sure it is the biblical Jesus Christ that we are all believing in and let us all daily read our bibles. Time is very short. Very short indeed. And I for one am not depressed about going home to the Lord. Praise the glorious Lord.

I suggest you repent from religious certainty and following men who are clearly clueless when it comes to anything beyond an over-simplification of believing in Jesus..without ANY qualification beyond owning a bible and justifying himself with it.

You need to break free of your leash.

 

[Lizbeth]

Peter says that God accepts ALL who DO righteousness and fear Him

Right. What righteousness though, ours or His? Our righteousness is as filthy rags......aka strange fire. The only righteousness that is acceptable to a holy God is His own (by His Spirit within us).......only pure fire from heaven could be used for the sacrifices. And again, how does one fear a God they don't believe in with a faith that is also not of their own but is of His Spirit and hence acceptable to Him? Impossible for Him to "accept" us by anything we could offer in our deadness (unclean/putrid/filthy)...that is why it is such an indescribable gift! Everything has to come from HIM and is TO Him.....and THAT is His mind-blowing mercy out of the blue to those who were utterly helpless to do anything "acceptable" in our dead and sinful state.

What the Jews sought for they didn't obtain because it was not by faith and because they were seeking to establish their own righteousness rather than submitting to God's righteousness. Can anyone "obtain" without faith and by their own righteousness then? Really?

 

[VictoryinJesus]

That's going too far the other way...without any balance. Peter says that God accepts ALL who DO righteousness and fear Him. If you read the bible without a religious bent you will see the balance. Otherwise you will take an extremist unbalanced view that puts you at the top of the food chain. Can you say...self-interest?

I get this was to another member but in reading through everyone’s replies…I have a few questions. If I understand you correctly there is a righteousness that good people do from their heart that God sees and accepts as their own righteousness? But then there is holiness? Which is different? Am I understanding better now the lower and higher walk?

As long as I’ve lived though I’ve not found our own righteous acts ever to be free or tainted by self motive or lust of our own. Even the most loving parents that boast in doing things for the sake of their family —the very acts, the motive or driving force behind it deceiving, or masks it as well intent. you may say…that is just religious gibberish talk. I know my heart though. I’ve seen it in myself that all righteous works had a self seeking motive behind them. You can hear it in others “I do this out of love for them” when it becomes obvious to consider “is that the truth?”

So here is the question…when you speak on righteous acts done out of the fear of God. What of Saul? If Paul had never been born would Saul have been one walking in the lower walk as you say? Where his own righteousness God would accept as righteous although not holiness? Or was Saul’s own righteousness tainted with self-interest motive ..driven…even though he fell behind in none of the long list of Saul’s own righteousness…because that own righteousness of Saul is laid out, shown.

It is God who justifies. He is free to justify whom He wills. Abraham was neither a Christian or a Jew. God looks at the heart. That is NOT understood by those who read the bible and justify themselves by their beliefs. God's mercy rubs them the wrong way.

God looks at the heart.
Makes me think of God looks on the heart and knows the spirit thereof…the discerner of the heart and what spirit it is of. Even when it’s hard to be discerned, God is able.

 

[Episkopos]

Right. What righteousness though, ours or His?

You are not understanding DOING righteousness. God doesn't do righteousness for us. Read the OT. I could cite SO MANY passages...but you can't read them and understand...I've tried hundreds of times .

Your vision is WAYYYYY too small. You don't have to destroy righteousness in order to get justification.

You underestimate what the gospel is so you get petty when it comes to mercy. And you don;t see the judgment coming.

Our righteousness is as filthy rags......aka strange fire.

That's false. Again, you can't see the difference between righteousness and holiness. You must have SOME inkling about holiness. It's mentioned in the bible. Strange fire is about holiness...a false holiness based on the wrong spirit.

The only righteousness that is acceptable to a holy God is His own (by His Spirit within us)

False. Without faith is it impossible to PLEASE God...but God is also merciful. You make God neither righteous nor holy with your bent doctrines. But that's because you are falling in the cracks...without understanding either righteousness or holiness.

.......only pure fire from heaven could be used for the sacrifices. And again, how does one fear a God they don't believe in with a faith that is also not of their own but is of His Spirit and hence acceptable to Him? Impossible for Him to "accept" us by anything we could offer in our deadness (unclean/putrid/filthy)...that is why it is such an indescribable gift!

No. A gift doesn't go against holiness. Uncleaness is cleansed by the atonement...in holiness. God goes easy on the righteous. He loves a cheerful giver...without respect to their religion. He loves the meek...regardless of their doctrinal bent. Even this simply mercy from God is unacceptable to the Pharisees in our midst.

Everything has to come from HIM and is TO Him.....and THAT is His mind-blowing mercy out of the blue to those who were utterly helpless to do anything "acceptable" in our dead and sinful state.

In holiness...yes. But not in righteousness. God accepts little children who have not received anything beyond what He created them to be.

What the Jews sought for they didn't obtain because it was not by faith and because they were seeking to establish their own righteousness rather than submitting to God's righteousness.

That's the very same thing you are doing right now. The Pharisees used their own understanding of the law to judge others. And you are using your own understanding of grace to judge others with. So then you are doing something worse...establishing your own status on the level of God..something the Pharisees would have never done..and you don't see the trap you've fallen into.

Can anyone "obtain" without faith and by their own righteousness then? Really?

Obtain what? Mercy? or grace? What is your proof that you have obtained anything? A reading yourself into the bible in a favourable way? That's EXACTLY how the Pharisees did it.

A free man is not in bondage to his own limited understanding.

 

[Episkopos]

I get this was to another member but in reading through everyone’s replies…I have a few questions. If I understand you correctly there is a righteousness that good people do from their heart that God sees and accepts as their own righteousness?

Yes, of course. Like children. A heart like a child God accepts.

But then there is holiness? Which is different? Am I understanding better now the lower and higher walk?

Yes. A holy person is held to a high standard that a child doesn't have to be under.

As long as I’ve lived though I’ve not found our own righteous acts ever to be free or tainted by self motive or lust of our own.

That's because you are labeling them as righteous. You just said...our righteous acts. That means you are the one judging them to be righteous. Only God decides who and what is righteous. It's when we try doing things TO BE righteous that we are missing the boat. And people don't see themselves...they do that very thing with their beliefs about Jesus. See. look I'm WAY too lazy to try obeying God...so I can justify myself instead for doing absolutely nothing and just resting on my own beliefs about Jesus..choosing Him as my sacred victim to cover my sins.

And you think God will go along with that?

Even the most loving parents that boast in doing things for the sake of their family —the very acts, the motive or driving force behind it deceiving, or masks it as well intent. you may say…that is just religious gibberish talk. I know my heart though. I’ve seen it in myself that all righteous works had a self seeking motive behind them. You can hear it in others “I do this out of love for them” when it becomes obvious to consider “is that the truth?”

You just need to get your eyes off yourself. You can do all those same selfish acts as a believer too.

Or you can learn to love. To be selfless as God is.

So here is the question…when you speak on righteous acts done out of the fear of God. What of Saul? If Paul had never been born would Saul have been one walking in the lower walk as you say? Where his own righteousness God would accept as righteous although not holiness? Or was Saul’s own righteousness tainted with self-interest motive ..driven…even though he fell behind in none of long list of Saul’s own righteousness?

Saul/Paul was blameless, as he says himself...and would have stayed that way if he wouldn't have judged the people of God in Christ to condemn them. Jesus Himself says that the sin of the Pharisees was to claim they could see (understand) what God requires. Many modern believers are doing that very thing...even on this thread. People think they know God and His ways...and they haven't even a clue what that entails. So we can repent or we can be rejected as the original people of God also were. Do we really think we are smarter than them? This is where pride and hubris are killers.

God looks at the heart.

That's right. And we can't.

Makes me think of God looks on the heart and knows the spirit thereof…the discerner of the heart.

Only a spiritual person can see beyond the outer man of a person and determine where the person is at.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Yes, of course. Like children. A heart like a child God accepts.


Yes. A holy person is held to a high standard that a child doesn't have to be under.


That's because you are labeling them as righteous. You just said...our righteous acts. That means you are the one judging them to be righteous. Only God decides who and what is righteous. It's when we try doing things TO BE righteous that we are missing the boat. And people don't see themselves...they do that very thing by their beliefs about Jesus. See. look I'm WAY too lazy to try obeying God...so I can justify myself instead for doing absolutely nothing and just resting on my own beliefs about Jesus..choosing Him as my sacred victim to cover my sins.

And you think God will go along with that?


You just need to get your eyes off yourself. You can do all those same selfish acts as a believer too.

Or you can learn to love. To be selfless as God is.


Saul was blameless, as he says himself...and would have stayed that way if he wouldn't have judged the people of God in Christ to condemn them. Jesus Himself says that the sin of the Pharisees was to claim they could see (understand) what God requires. Many modern believers are doing that very thing...even on this thread. People think they know God and His ways...and they haven't even a clue what that entails. So we can repent or we can be rejected as the original people of God also were. Do we really think we are smarter than them? This is where pride and hubris are killers.


That's right. And we can't.

Only a spiritual person can see beyond the outer man of a person and determine where the person is at.

So you think God will accept a persons righteousness as payment for their sin?

You think God will go along with a person coming to him with his own righteousness? (By the way, where does the standard of how righteous that person located?) I mean, does not a person have to have a standard to know if they have met the requirement or they have failed?

Saul was blameless. so he did not Need from Jesus salvation which came from the cross?

 

[Episkopos]

So you think God will accept a persons righteousness as payment for their sin?

Did you know that Jesus died for the sins of the world? A righteous person doesn't think that he does is righteous. Only self-righteous people do that. The same goes for believers who think they are righteous based on their beliefs/faith. ANYBODY who claims to be righteous is a self-righteous person. Anyone who CLAIMS to be humble isn't. A meek person doesn't claim and argue how meek he is. So all your ranting about your own supposed righteousness just exposes you.

You think God will go along with a person coming to him with his own righteousness?

Not claiming to be righteous. Do you think God will receive a modern believer who claims to be as righteous as God?

(By the way, where does the standard of how righteous that person located?)

There are 2 levels of righteousness...based on the OT standard (righteousness) and the NT standard (holiness based on God's righteousness).

I mean, does not a person have to have a standard to know if they have met the requirement or they have failed?

No. God's judgment will reveal all. It's just that God goes easy on the righteous, the meek, the humble, the poor, the widow, the fatherless...and goes HARD on those who name and claim things that don't belong to them.

Saul was blameless. so he did not Need from Jesus salvation which came from the cross?

Wrong question. Are you saying that all men of God before Jesus are going straight to hell? Saul/Paul was tested on his actual devotion to God...which he thought was genuine...and what was PROVED to be misguided. It's the very same misguided ideas I'm trying to straighten out on these threads. Maybe some people need to be knocked down from their high horse?

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Yes, of course. Like children. A heart like a child God accepts.

Only questions. Where Paul sits with the brother who is weak and afraid to eat. By what you’ve shared on righteousness done through the fear of God. This brother …like children …a heart of a child God accepts? That is where my mind is in trying to understand. This one who is afraid to eat out of fear. I do think of it in relation to what you are saying. Does God receive this weak brother afraid to eat…even though in the text it seems to be he is one who lacks the knowledge of Christ? Which is the “weakness”

So is this weak brother one who has his own righteousness in fear God as not to eat? But then why would God desire that brother to remain weak in his own righteousness in fear to eat, and not be strengthened?


Lost the quote but you said “Yes. A holy person is held to a high standard that a child doesn't have to be under.”

I’m considering that. In Paul is told to not wound the weaker brother. In using the knowledge of Christ given unto Paul to destroy his brother…then Paul sins against Christ. It’s Paul that is called to perform “Charity toward one who is weak” that which is higher in not destroying a weaker brother for the sake of meat? To eat or not to eat no worse or better but to not sin against Christ?

That's because you are labeling them as righteous. You just said...our righteous acts. That means you are the one judging them to be righteous. Only God decides who and what is righteous. It's when we try doing things TO BE righteous that we are missing the boat. And people don't see themselves...they do that very thing by their beliefs about Jesus. See. look I' WAY too lazy to try obeying God...so I can justify myself instead for doing absolutely nothing and just resting on my own beliefs about Jesus..choosing Him as my sacred victim to cover my sins. And you think God will go along with that?

Probably so.

You just need to get your eyes off yourself. You can do all those same selfish acts as a believer too.

Or you can learn to love.

True. Probably worse selfish acts with a bit of knowledge becoming more religious like
Proverbs 1:5 A wise man will hear, and will increase learning; (I hear a BUT here) and a man of understanding shall attain unto wise counsels:
To me there are two there. One will increase learning …the man of understanding receives wise counsel 1 Corinthians 8:1 Now as touching things offered unto idols, we know that we all have knowledge. Knowledge puffeth up, but charity edifieth.

Saul was blameless as he says himself...and would have stayed that way if he wouldn't have judged the people of God in Christ to condemn them. Jesus Himself says that the sin of the Pharisees was to claim they could see (understand) what God requires. Many modern believers are doing that very thing...even on this thread. People think they know God and His ways...and they haven't even a clue what that entails. So we can repent or we can be rejected as the original people of God also were. Do we really think we are smarter than them? This is where pride and hubris are killers.

Interesting. But how could Saul increase in his own righteousness and NOT judge and persecute the body of Christ?
Romans 4:15 Because the law works wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.

I get you may say …see “for where no law is, there is no transgression.” But isn’t that why “by the body of Christ” you are made free to bring forth fruit unto God. Saul said he resisted this way…but then preached the very things he once persecuted. Which is “by the body of Christ” you are made free.

That's right. And we can't.

Only a spiritual person can see beyond the outer man of a person and determine where the person is at.

Judge not by sight but by Faith.
What is Faith …hoping and expecting?

 

[Lizbeth]

And even then...nobody knows whom God will justify into the nations of them that are saved.

Are you talking about this passage...? That needs to be rightly divided as well:

Rev 21:22-27

And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.
And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.
And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.
And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there.
And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it.
And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.

 

[Episkopos]

Only questions. Where Paul sits with the brother who is weak and afraid to eat. By what you’ve shared on righteousness done through the fear of God. This brother …like children …a heart of a child God accepts? That is where my mind is in trying to understand. This one who is afraid to eat out of fear. I do think of it in relation to what you are saying. Does God receive this weak brother afraid to eat…even though in the text it seems to be he is one who lack knowledge?

Righteousness begins at loving others as ourselves. The second great commandment. If I love others, then I won't offend them by what I do that I have a choice in doing.

So is this weak brother one who has his own righteousness in to fear God as not to eat? But then why would God desire that brother to remain weak in his own righteousness in fear to eat?

The one who is afraid to eat is weak in faith. But sometimes a brother or sister needs to crawl before they can walk. Our freedom should not cause offense to others. If the music in your house is offending your neighbour...wouldn't you turn it down or off?

Lost the quote but you said “Yes. A holy person is held to a high standard that a child doesn't have to be under.”

I’m conserving that.

Good. Notice BOTH the goodness and severity of God. A Pharisee will see the severity ONLY for unbelievers..not realizing that God judges those who judge.

In Paul is told to not wound the weaker brother. In using the knowledge of Christ given unto Paul to desires his brother…then Paul sins against Christ. It’s Paul that is called to perform that which is higher in not destroying a weaker brother for the sake of meat? To eat or not to eat no worse or better but to not sin against Christ?

A saint should know better...and is to live sacrificially among others...thus inspiring righteousness in others. Think of holiness as a fire, and righteousness as the warmth of the fire for others to bask in.

Probably so.

True. Probably worse selfish acts with a bit of knowledge becoming more religious like
Proverbs 1:5 A wise man will hear, and will increase learning; (I hear a BUT here) and a man of understanding shall attain unto wise counsels:
To me there are two there. One will increase learning …the man of understanding receives wise counsel 1 Corinthians 8:1 Now as touching things offered unto idols, we know that we all have knowledge. Knowledge puffeth up, but charity edifieth.




Interesting. But how could Saul increase in his own righteousness and NOT judge and persecute the body of Christ?

Paul's judgment was from a religious ideology that made him condemn anyone who challenged the standard way that the Torah was being understood. Again, same thing happening in modern churchianity with the gospel.

Romans 4:15 Because the law works wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.

I get you may say …see “for where no law is, there is no transgression.” But isn’t that why “by the body of Christ” you are made free to bring forth fruit unto God. Saul said he persisted this way…but then preached the very things he once persecuted. Which is “by the body of Christ” you are made free.

A righteous man does everything by the knowledge given to him. But the people of God are taken further and by a lack of knowledge of WHAT IS FURTHER, they perish.

Judge not by sight but by Faith.
What is Faith …hoping and expecting?

Faith is like legs that walk us to the door to ask, seek and knock.

Stop looking down...and start looking up.

 

[APAK]

Right. What righteousness though, ours or His? Our righteousness is as filthy rags......aka strange fire. The only righteousness that is acceptable to a holy God is His own (by His Spirit within us).......only pure fire from heaven could be used for the sacrifices. And again, how does one fear a God they don't believe in with a faith that is also not of their own but is of His Spirit and hence acceptable to Him? Impossible for Him to "accept" us by anything we could offer in our deadness (unclean/putrid/filthy)...that is why it is such an indescribable gift! Everything has to come from HIM and is TO Him.....and THAT is His mind-blowing mercy out of the blue to those who were utterly helpless to do anything "acceptable" in our dead and sinful state.

What the Jews sought for they didn't obtain because it was not by faith and because they were seeking to establish their own righteousness rather than submitting to God's righteousness. Can anyone "obtain" without faith and by their own righteousness then? Really?

1. The Spirit of God enables us to live a life of righteousness, and this life of righteous acts are only and always perfect with faith; not of faithless self-righteous acts.

2. We live this life of righteousness in faith in Christ and of God.

3. Peter says that all nations, without exception, of any social status, or background are accepted as for salvation by doing these perfected deeds in faith, truly righteous deeds found acceptable to God. As God does not play favorites with people or expects anyone to perform at his level of perfection, ever in this human body and world.

Acts 10:34-35 states: “Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: 35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.”

And the starting point of righteousness, before faith is truly first activated in our lives is our demonstration of first deep reverence for God. And this fear continues throughout our faithful life as we become closer to God.

This is reinforced by the experience of Cornelius, a non-Jew who was saved after hearing the Gospel from Peter’s lips (Acts 11:13-14). Cornelius’s salvation was not based on his own 'imperfect' righteous works, but rather on fear and then faith in Jesus Christ.

FAITH in Christ brings us to perfect righteous works that we may not realize or acknowledge, although God knows all.

This is the most fascinating and powerful aspect of living in faith under the good graces of God and his for salvation; that our works are being perfected in holiness. And this is pleasing to God.

On the relationship of this special fear we have for God and faith him and his Son...throughout our lives...

The fear of God can be a precursor to faith, but it is not the same as faith itself.

In the Old Testament, the fear of God is often mentioned as a necessary step towards wisdom, knowledge, and a deeper understanding of God’s ways (Proverbs 1:7, Deuteronomy 10:12-21). This fear is not a fear of punishment, but rather a reverence and awe for God’s holiness and power.

In the New Testament, the fear of God is also mentioned as a motive for not turning away from Him (Romans 11:20, Hebrews 3:12). This fear is not a fear of punishment, but rather a fear of losing one’s relationship with God and drifting away from Him.

Faith is a trust and confidence in God’s goodness, love, and sovereignty, whereas fear is a response to God’s power and holiness.

 

[Episkopos]

Are you talking about this passage...? That needs to be rightly divided as well:

Rev 21:22-27

And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.
And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.
And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.

The righteous are in the saved nations. Not a part of the light, or a partaker of God's presence... but basking in the light of holiness...from a distance.

Only the kings of the earth can go in and out of the holy city. Much like the saints do now into God's holy walk.

And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there.
And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it.
And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.

The saints are citizens of the holy city. And no one who is unclean...who lies, names and claims, assumes and presumes has any place in either the holy city or the nations. They will be cast out into outer darkness. They are neither holy...nor righteous...seeing that they sought to destroy the righteous at every turn.