Revelation 11 and Revelation 12

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Stumpmaster

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That would be during the Day of the Lord. John was talking about where they originated in Revelation 12, 13, and 17.

Are you saying humans are born in the LOF?
The above response makes no sense to me so try again, but first consider this passage also:

Rev 16:12-14 Then the sixth angel poured out his bowl on the great river Euphrates, and its water was dried up, so that the way of the kings from the east might be prepared. (13) And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs coming out of the mouth of the dragon, out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet. (14) For they are spirits of demons, performing signs, which go out to the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.

# Number of frogs = 3
# Number of mouths =3
 

Timtofly

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The above response makes no sense to me so try again, but first consider this passage also:

Rev 16:12-14 Then the sixth angel poured out his bowl on the great river Euphrates, and its water was dried up, so that the way of the kings from the east might be prepared. (13) And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs coming out of the mouth of the dragon, out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet. (14) For they are spirits of demons, performing signs, which go out to the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.

# Number of frogs = 3
# Number of mouths =3
The beast in these verses is the image brought to life. The FP is the mouth of human government, one single human. The dragon is still Satan as the other heads are just an historical reference to humanity from Babylon until Armageddon. All of humanity is either in the LOF or still in the grave at the point Satan is sealed in the pit/abyss.

In fact this verse says Satan is the one bound:

"And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him."

Your claim was the first beast, which I can only assume as the sea beast. That is historically all humanity from Babylon until the present day. Satan is one of those 7 heads, just like the dragon in chapter 12, and the scarlet colored beast in Revelation 17. All 3 times, this beast, represents historical humanity in conjunction with Satan.
 

Stumpmaster

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The beast in these verses is the image brought to life. The FP is the mouth of human government, one single human. The dragon is still Satan as the other heads are just an historical reference to humanity from Babylon until Armageddon. All of humanity is either in the LOF or still in the grave at the point Satan is sealed in the pit/abyss.

In fact this verse says Satan is the one bound:

"And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him."

Your claim was the first beast, which I can only assume as the sea beast. That is historically all humanity from Babylon until the present day. Satan is one of those 7 heads, just like the dragon in chapter 12, and the scarlet colored beast in Revelation 17. All 3 times, this beast, represents historical humanity in conjunction with Satan.
You were talking about people being born in the Lake of Fire. What nonsense is this and why did you spout it?
 

Timtofly

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That would be during the Day of the Lord. John was talking about where they originated in Revelation 12, 13, and 17.

Are you saying humans are born in the LOF?
This:

False, false, and false. The Dragon is sealed in the Abyss while the First Beast and the False Prophet are in the Lake of Fire.
You said the first beast is in the LOF.

Why is the historical representation of humanity from Babylon till now, in the LOF?
 

Stumpmaster

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This:


You said the first beast is in the LOF.

Why is the historical representation of humanity from Babylon till now, in the LOF?
You ignored the syntax and missed the context of my comment.

In the narrative of Revelation the fates of the Beast from the Sea, the Beast from the Earth/False Prophet/Man of Sin, and Satan the Dragon, are prophesied. The two beasts are cast into the LOF a thousand years before Satan the Dragon is, which disproves your claims that Satan is one of the Beasts.

Rev 19:19-21 And I saw the beast, the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against Him who sat on the horse and against His army. (20) Then the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who worked signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image. These two were cast alive into the lake of fire burning with brimstone. (21) And the rest were killed with the sword which proceeded from the mouth of Him who sat on the horse. And all the birds were filled with their flesh.

Rev 20:1-3 Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, having the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. (2) He laid hold of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years; (3) and he cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal on him, so that he should deceive the nations no more till the thousand years were finished. But after these things he must be released for a little while.

Rev 20:10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
 
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ewq1938

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The above response makes no sense to me so try again, but first consider this passage also:

Rev 16:12-14 Then the sixth angel poured out his bowl on the great river Euphrates, and its water was dried up, so that the way of the kings from the east might be prepared. (13) And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs coming out of the mouth of the dragon, out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet. (14) For they are spirits of demons, performing signs, which go out to the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.

# Number of frogs = 3

Like frogs means there are no frogs.


# Number of mouths =3

One of those mouths is non-literal because the ten horned beast is a kingdom which has no mouth in a literal sense like the mouth of the two persons who have actual mouths ie: satan and the false prophet.
 

ewq1938

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You ignored the syntax and missed the context of my comment.

In the narrative of Revelation the fates of the Beast from the Sea, the Beast from the Earth/False Prophet/Man of Sin, and Satan the Dragon, are prophesied. The two beasts are cast into the LOF a thousand years before Satan the Dragon is, which disproves your claims that Satan is one of the Beasts.


One of the beasts is a global empire and the other could be a role satan plays to pretend to be a god like an actor playing a role. Being destroyed simply means that person cannot play the role any more. The false prophet is either satan pretending to be a prophet, or is a person possessed by satan.
 

Stumpmaster

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Like frogs means there are no frogs.




One of those mouths is non-literal because the ten horned beast is a kingdom which has no mouth in a literal sense like the mouth of the two persons who have actual mouths ie: satan and the false prophet.
The whole thing is metaphorical but has a literal application.
 

ewq1938

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Regardless of their complicity the narrative defines them as separate and distinct entities.


They could be one person, satan, who is normally hidden from view working in the background and could act in this role of false prophet and false god upon the world stage. Remember that satan can transform/disguise himself as an angel of light. He would be pretending to be this angel of light like an actor in a role. It could be the same with the antichrist.
 

Stumpmaster

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They could be one person, satan, who is normally hidden from view working in the background and could act in this role of false prophet and false god upon the world stage. Remember that satan can transform/disguise himself as an angel of light. He would be pretending to be this angel of light like an actor in a role. It could be the same with the antichrist.
The False Prophet is also called the Man of Sin, a human being. To date there have been many attempts by Satan to establish such a man he can control to Rule Over Mankind Everywhere, but the Restrainer has prevented such a thing from happening. When it does it will be as Divine Judgment, God removing His protection over the world and allowing Satan to manifest anomia through the anomos..

As per the NKJV and its translation of anomia and anomos, we have the hidden lawlessness at work and the undisclosed lawless one restrained from manifesting.

Consequential to the disclosure and manifestation of the lawless one is the Lord's Return which results in the lawless one being consumed as described below:

2Th 2:7-12 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way. (8) And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. (9) The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, (10) and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. (11) And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, (12) that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Obviously through the centuries God Himself has been restraining the lawless one from manifesting "according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders etc., and as described in Rev 13, otherwise we would not be having this conversation.
 

Timtofly

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You ignored the syntax and missed the context of my comment.

In the narrative of Revelation the fates of the Beast from the Sea, the Beast from the Earth/False Prophet/Man of Sin, and Satan the Dragon, are prophesied. The two beasts are cast into the LOF a thousand years before Satan the Dragon is, which disproves your claims that Satan is one of the Beasts.

Rev 19:19-21 And I saw the beast, the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against Him who sat on the horse and against His army. (20) Then the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who worked signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image. These two were cast alive into the lake of fire burning with brimstone. (21) And the rest were killed with the sword which proceeded from the mouth of Him who sat on the horse. And all the birds were filled with their flesh.

Rev 20:1-3 Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, having the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. (2) He laid hold of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years; (3) and he cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal on him, so that he should deceive the nations no more till the thousand years were finished. But after these things he must be released for a little while.

Rev 20:10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
I understand your interpretation.

I pointed out you are wrong.

The 2 beasts in Revelation 13 are not individual humans.

The sea beast represents human government from Babylon during Daniel's time until humanity is tossed into the LOF.

No single individual has 7 heads and ten horns.

The other beast is not the false prophet.

"And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon. And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed. And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men, And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live. And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed."

No human comes out of the earth symbolically. The sea beast is humanity because it rises from the sea, symbolic of humanity.

Satan as the Prince of this world is one of the heads of the sea beast. That is how symbolism works. The sea beast represents human government including the influence of Satan. The deadly wound was that one of the heads, the 6th kingdom was healed, not an individual. The 6th kingdom is brought to life or humanity would starve to death or be wiped out at that point, if there was no intervention of Satan.

Satan is the second beast as well in Revelation 13.

So who are the FP and beast in Revelation 16 and Revelation 19? You will not agree, but the FP is symbolized by the "mouth" given to the sea beast:

"And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months. And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven. And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations. And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world."

So this one individual human, the FP, is the spokesman of the sea beast, and this one individual is given extreme power and authority during a 42 month period that ends when the 2 witnesses are killed, and this FP is tossed into the LOF.

The third part of this Satanic trio is also only referenced as "the beast". This is not even a human. This beast is what is prophecied as the AoD set up and then brought to life. This beast is made in the image of fallen humanity, but it is not a physical born human. The only other item described in Revelation is this image.

"And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed."

So this image had life, could move around. It had a voice, allowing communication and understanding between it and any human on the planet. Then it was given the ability and authority to go around killing people.

These things are written by John, but it seems most do not see these tiny, but yet significant details.
 

ewq1938

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The False Prophet is also called the Man of Sin, a human being.


Not exactly. The FP isn't ever called the man of sin but I believe the two references to be about the same person because both are said to perform miracles to deceive.
 

Timtofly

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Another nonsensical comment. Why?
Satan is the only entity that can come and go out of the earth and speaks as a dragon. No being can come and go out of the LOF.

Your excuse was that Satan was in the earth not the LOF. The beast with two horns and speaks as a dragon comes out of the earth, so that proves it is still Satan.

Satan is the only being who can exercise all his own authority. But that authority is limited. Obviously Satan has more power and authority than you do. This is not a symbolic reference to a kingdom that comes out of the earth, but coming and going from the pit, or sheol. The pit was opened at the 5th Trumpet as the 1st woe. Why would there not be Satan coming and going? How would a vehicle or groups of souls come and go out of sheol?

We see the rebel angels can come out of the earth. Then we see Satan. But no verse allows humans to come and go as they please. We don't even know if this is a physical opening, or just God allowing these angels, including Satan to come and go as they please.