Who, or what, is the dreaded bogey man of prophecy?

[VictoryinJesus]

In the OT, the people of Israel are often spoken of collectively as woman. Sometimes Israel as a whole is compared to all unfaithful wife, whose divine Husband, God, is going to have to restore her. See Hosea 2:19,20; Isaiah 54:1-8. At other times Israel is compared to as beautiful young woman whom God has outfitted in gorgeous be clothes and chosen to take His bride. See Ezekiel. 16:8-14
Same in the NT. See 2 Cor. 11:2; Ephesians 5:21-23. We are not to suppose however that God has 2 brides. While at one time the bride was a local ethnic group, today it is a global all-ethnic group. God's spiritual Israel had neither Jew nor Greek, neither male or female. Galatians 3:28.
The pure woman of Revelation 12 is like the woman of Ezekiel 16. Clothed in the righteousness of Christ. (Revel. 19:8) As a symbol of the church, she stands as one at the height of her faithfulness, virtuous, good, and a true mother. She is in stark contrast to the whore of later chapters. An unfaithful church, apostatised, and an enemy to God's people.

You said : “Oftentimes compared to an unfaithful wife, whose divine Husband, God, is going to restore her.”

I can’t recommend numbers 5 enough. “The law of Jealousies” there is a woman made to drink and her thigh rots and her belly swells, called an adulterous woman.

There is the woman, however who is found not guilty, who drinks and conceives and bears fruit. Romans also talks of being dead to the law by the body of Christ (the law of jealousies?being called no more an adulteress, be free to bear fruit unto God. All in numbers 5 is concerning her husband bring her before the priest. I recommend reading Numbers 5 with Romans 7. I’m not saying you haven’t already, but only recommend it to you on your topic.

“Oftentimes …outfitted in gorgeous apparel …”by the body of Christ in Romans he speaks to those who know the law …free to serve in newness of Spirit
Romans 7:3-5 So then if, while her husband lives, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man. [4] Wherefore, my brethren, you also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that you should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God. [5] For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.


“We are not to suppose however that God has 2 brides. “…an adulteress and a free woman? Didn’t God give His Son to free the adulteress from sin unto death, that she be called no more an adulteress but of the Free woman who bears fruit unto God. Like the verse …1 Timothy 2:14-15 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. [15] Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.

“The pure woman of Ezekiel 16. Clothed in the righteousness of Christ.”
Called no adulteress but made free and conceives, bears fruit unto God. (Clothed in the Righteousness of Christ)

 

[ewq1938]

Nowhere is there a suggestion in prophecy or a directive from the Lord that beasts are to be understood as being individuals.

Men have been called beasts in scripture. The second beast is the FP who is a singular person. The ten horned beast is an empire.

A beast has also been used to represent a person or persons:

Ecclesiastes 3:18 I said in mine heart concerning the estate of the sons of men, that God might manifest them, and that they might see that they themselves are beasts.


Titus 1:12 One of themselves, even a prophet of their own, said, The Cretians are alway liars, evil beasts, slow bellies.


2 Peter 2:12 But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;


Jude 1:10 But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Every generation thinks that their current most relevant "bad guy" is the Antichrist.

I recently stumbled across an interesting take on the topic of the Antichrist, asking if he had already appeared. They go into a lot of detail but here is the TLDR:

"There are endless debates among Christians about the coming of the next Antichrist.

But rarely do I see christians ask the question, 'Was the Antichrist already here?'.

Remember, God works on different timescales: “With the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. (2 Peter 3:8)

Ask yourself: Is there anyone in history who has done more damage to the spread and reputation of Christianity than Muhammad?

The Antichrist is described as one who denies the Father and the Son (1 John 2:22). Muhammad’s teachings explicitly deny the divinity of Jesus and his role as the Son of God, which aligns with this prophecy.

Christian scholars like Thomas Aquinas viewed Islam and Muhammad in a negative light, often associating them with the Antichrist narrative.

The violence, warfare, and personal conduct of Muhammad, including his marriage to 6-year-old Aisha and his strategic use of deception, are seen by critics as fulfilling the characteristics of the Antichrist.

The concept of Taqiyya and the permissibility of lying under certain conditions in Islam are viewed as supporting the deceptive nature of the Antichrist."

Scripture (1 John 2:18,22; 1 John 4:3, 2 John 1:7) says there are many antichrists, not just one. And that there were already many antichrists in John's day. Many don't seem to care how John defined the term "antichrist" and want to redefine it. He defined it as referring to anyone who has "that spirit of antichrist" in them which denies Jesus Christ, and there are many who fit that description.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Men have been called beasts in scripture.

Not symbolic prophetic beasts, though. The scriptures you're talking about compare men's behavior to animals/beasts. That's totally different. Symbolic prophetic beasts represent kingdoms.

Daniel 7:23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.

 

[tailgator]

Men have been called beasts in scripture. The second beast is the FP who is a singular person. The ten horned beast is an empire.

A beast has also been used to represent a person or persons:

Ecclesiastes 3:18 I said in mine heart concerning the estate of the sons of men, that God might manifest them, and that they might see that they themselves are beasts.


Titus 1:12 One of themselves, even a prophet of their own, said, The Cretians are alway liars, evil beasts, slow bellies.


2 Peter 2:12 But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;


Jude 1:10 But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves.

You don't honestly believe there will be a man with two horns coming out of his head do you?
Those two horns should tell you something.

At the same time those two horns who come in Jesus name are practicing the authority of the beast on its behalf,there will also be two witnesses who come in Jesus name who have power the exact same amount of time.42 months.

Or are they they same two .
We shall soon see.

The king of the norths armed forces will have power the same 42 months and will be occupying Jerusalem.

Daniel 11
39 Thus shall he do in the most strong holds with a strange god, whom he shall acknowledge and increase with glory: and he shall cause them to rule over many, and shall divide the land for gain.




Funny things about the king of the norths armed forces as compared to the two witnesses.They both have Fire procede from their mouths.Fire is a military command.And I suspect I will know their names next year.

 

[Phoneman777]

The seven heads on where the prostitute sits are the seven mountains of Jerusalem.Not Rome.

That's funny...all the Protestant Reformers for over 3 centuries said the whore riding the beast is the catholic church controlling the subjugated state aka "the papacy".

The three horns the little horn subdued were the kings of Egypt,Syria and Jordan.

You mean the three horns that rise out of the fourth beast, Rome? Yep, they were the Heruli, Vandals, and Ostrogoths, all destroyed by the papacy because they wouldn't kowtow to the Bishop of Rome.

This part of the prophecy was fulfilled in 1967 when the little horn took Jerusalem .

Are you inserting "gaps" in Daniel's prophecies where kingdoms always rise directly after the previous fell?

Your focusing on the wrong part of her world.

That's exactly the purpose of Jesuit Preterism and Jesuit Futurism: get people to focus their attention on the past, the future, anywhere but the papacy - and here you are telling me to get my focus off Rome ;)

Keep it n mind,Jesus never said anything bad about Rome in the gospel when prophecyjng .He upbraided the cities of Israel and condemned Israels leaders.

Jesus - through Peter - referred to the saints in Rome as "the church that is in Babylon"! C'mon, man!

You are ignoring everything Jesus said about the beast in the gospel.Jesus was not wrong in condemning Jerusalem.

No, you're ignoring that the Beast is identical to the Little Horn of Daniel which arose way back then among the Ten Horns of the barbarian tribes - the ECFs said it would rise after the fall of Rome.

Im not going to keep arguing about it though.You can believe Jesus or you can ignore him.That is entirely up to you.

I do believe Jesus - I do not believe Jesuit Futurist lies, but rather try and educate you guys as to what you're actually seduced by.

 

[tailgator]

That's funny...all the Protestant Reformers for over 3 centuries said the whore riding the beast is the catholic church controlling the subjugated state aka "the papacy".

You mean the three horns that rise out of the fourth beast, Rome? Yep, they were the Heruli, Vandals, and Ostrogoths, all destroyed by the papacy because they wouldn't kowtow to the Bishop of Rome.

Are you inserting "gaps" in Daniel's prophecies where kingdoms always rise directly after the previous fell?

That's exactly the purpose of Jesuit Preterism and Jesuit Futurism: get people to focus their attention on the past, the future, anywhere but the papacy - and here you are telling me to get my focus off Rome ;)

Jesus - through Peter - referred to the saints in Rome as "the church that is in Babylon"! C'mon, man!

No, you're ignoring that the Beast is identical to the Little Horn of Daniel which arose way back then among the Ten Horns of the barbarian tribes - the ECFs said it would rise after the fall of Rome.

I do believe Jesus - I do not believe Jesuit Futurist lies, but rather try and educate you guys as to what you're actually seduced by.

The fourth beast to rise in the promised land isn't Rome.
The word of God shows that it is Jerusalem that is the prostitute but you claim its Rome.

Isaiah 1:21
See how the faithful city has become a prostitute! She once was full of justice; righteousness used to dwell in her— but now murderers!


I can continue to quote the word of God concerning the prostitute.


Can you quote a single verse from any prophet of God or even Christ calling Rome a prostitute?

 

[tailgator]

That's funny...all the Protestant Reformers for over 3 centuries said the whore riding the beast is the catholic church controlling the subjugated state aka "the papacy".

You mean the three horns that rise out of the fourth beast, Rome? Yep, they were the Heruli, Vandals, and Ostrogoths, all destroyed by the papacy because they wouldn't kowtow to the Bishop of Rome.

Are you inserting "gaps" in Daniel's prophecies where kingdoms always rise directly after the previous fell?

That's exactly the purpose of Jesuit Preterism and Jesuit Futurism: get people to focus their attention on the past, the future, anywhere but the papacy - and here you are telling me to get my focus off Rome ;)

Jesus - through Peter - referred to the saints in Rome as "the church that is in Babylon"! C'mon, man!

No, you're ignoring that the Beast is identical to the Little Horn of Daniel which arose way back then among the Ten Horns of the barbarian tribes - the ECFs said it would rise after the fall of Rome.

I do believe Jesus - I do not believe Jesuit Futurist lies, but rather try and educate you guys as to what you're actually seduced by.

Why do you continue to ignore God and listen to fools?If you have a single quote about Rome being a prostitute in the word of God ,then quote it.

Ezekiel 16
16 The word of the Lord came to me: 2 “Son of man, confront Jerusalem with her detestable practices 3 and say, ‘This is what the Sovereign Lord says to Jerusalem: Your ancestry and birth were in the land of the Canaanites; your father was an Amorite and your mother a Hittite. 4 On the day you were born your cord was not cut, nor were you washed with water to make you clean, nor were you rubbed with salt or wrapped in cloths. 5 No one looked on you with pity or had compassion enough to do any of these things for you. Rather, you were thrown out into the open field, for on the day you were born you were despised.

6 “‘Then I passed by and saw you kicking about in your blood, and as you lay there in your blood I said to you, “Live!”[a] 7 I made you grow like a plant of the field. You grew and developed and entered puberty. Your breasts had formed and your hair had grown, yet you were stark naked

8 “‘Later I passed by, and when I looked at you and saw that you were old enough for love, I spread the corner of my garment over you and covered your naked body. I gave you my solemn oath and entered into a covenant with you, declares the Sovereign Lord, and you became mine.

9 “‘I bathed you with water and washed the blood from you and put ointments on you. 10 I clothed you with an embroidered dress and put sandals of fine leather on you. I dressed you in fine linen and covered you with costly garments. 11 I adorned you with jewelry: I put bracelets on your arms and a necklace around your neck, 12 and I put a ring on your nose, earrings on your ears and a beautiful crown on your head. 13 So you were adorned with gold and silver; your clothes were of fine linen and costly fabric and embroidered cloth. Your food was honey, olive oil and the finest flour. You became very beautiful and rose to be a queen. 14 And your fame spread among the nations on account of your beauty, because the splendor I had given you made your beauty perfect, declares the Sovereign Lord.

20 “‘And you took your sons and daughters whom you bore to me and sacrificed them as food to the idols. Was your prostitution not enough? 21 You slaughtered my children and sacrificed them to the idols. 22 In all your detestable practices and your prostitution you did not remember the days of your youth, when you were naked and bare, kicking about in your blood.

23 “‘Woe! Woe to you, declares the Sovereign Lord. In addition to all your other wickedness, 24 you built a mound for yourself and made a lofty shrine in every public square. 25 At every street corner you built your lofty shrines and degraded your beauty, spreading your legs with increasing promiscuity to anyone who passed by. 26 You engaged in prostitution with the Egyptians, your neighbors with large genitals, and aroused my anger with your increasing promiscuity. 27 So I stretched out my hand against you and reduced your territory; I gave you over to the greed of your enemies, the daughters of the Philistines, who were shocked by your lewd conduct. 28 You engaged in prostitution with the Assyrians too, because you were insatiable; and even after that, you still were not satisfied. 29 Then you increased your promiscuity to include Babylonia,[c] a land of merchants, but even with this you were not satisfied.

30 “‘I am filled with fury against you,[d] declares the Sovereign Lord, when you do all these things, acting like a brazen prostitute! 31 When you built your mounds at every street corner and made your lofty shrines in every public square, you were unlike a prostitute, because you scorned payment.

 

[tailgator]

That's funny...all the Protestant Reformers for over 3 centuries said the whore riding the beast is the catholic church controlling the subjugated state aka "the papacy".

You mean the three horns that rise out of the fourth beast, Rome? Yep, they were the Heruli, Vandals, and Ostrogoths, all destroyed by the papacy because they wouldn't kowtow to the Bishop of Rome.

Are you inserting "gaps" in Daniel's prophecies where kingdoms always rise directly after the previous fell?

That's exactly the purpose of Jesuit Preterism and Jesuit Futurism: get people to focus their attention on the past, the future, anywhere but the papacy - and here you are telling me to get my focus off Rome ;)

Jesus - through Peter - referred to the saints in Rome as "the church that is in Babylon"! C'mon, man!

No, you're ignoring that the Beast is identical to the Little Horn of Daniel which arose way back then among the Ten Horns of the barbarian tribes - the ECFs said it would rise after the fall of Rome.

I do believe Jesus - I do not believe Jesuit Futurist lies, but rather try and educate you guys as to what you're actually seduced by.

How Many times must God call Jerusalem a prostitute before you would actually believe him?


32 “‘You adulterous wife! You prefer strangers to your own husband! 33 All prostitutes receive gifts, but you give gifts to all your lovers, bribing them to come to you from everywhere for your illicit favors. 34 So in your prostitution you are the opposite of others; no one runs after you for your favors. You are the very opposite, for you give payment and none is given to you.

35 “‘Therefore, you prostitute, hear the word of the Lord! 36 This is what the Sovereign Lord says: Because you poured out your lust and exposed your naked body in your promiscuity with your lovers, and because of all your detestable idols, and because you gave them your children’s blood, 37 therefore I am going to gather all your lovers, with whom you found pleasure, those you loved as well as those you hated. I will gather them against you from all around and will strip you in front of them, and they will see you stark naked. 38 I will sentence you to the punishment of women who commit adultery and who shed blood; I will bring on you the blood vengeance of my wrath and jealous anger. 39 Then I will deliver you into the hands of your lovers, and they will tear down your mounds and destroy your lofty shrines. They will strip you of your clothes and take your fine jewelry and leave you stark naked. 40 They will bring a mob against you, who will stone you and hack you to pieces with their swords. 41 They will burn down your houses and inflict
punishment on you in the sight of many women. I will put a stop to your prostitution, and you will no longer pay your lovers. 42 Then my wrath against you will subside and my jealous anger will turn away from you; I will be calm and no longer angry.

43 “‘Because you did not remember the days of your youth but enraged me with all these things, I will surely bring down on your head what you have done, declares the Sovereign Lord. Did you not add lewdness to all your other detestable practices?

44 “‘Everyone who quotes proverbs will quote this proverb about you: “Like mother, like daughter.” 45 You are a true daughter of your mother, who despised her husband and her children; and you are a true sister of your sisters, who despised their husbands and their children. Your mother was a Hittite and your father an Amorite. 46 Your older sister was Samaria, who lived to the north of you with her daughters; and your younger sister, who lived to the south of you with her daughters, was Sodom. 47 You not only followed their ways and copied their detestable practices, but in all your ways you soon became more depraved than they. 48 As surely as I live, declares the Sovereign Lord, your sister Sodom and her daughters never did what you and your daughters have done.

49 “‘Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy. 50 They were haughty and did detestable things before me. Therefore I did away with them as you have seen. 51 Samaria did not commit half the sins you did. You have done more detestable things than they, and have made your sisters seem righteous by all these things you have done. 52 Bear your disgrace, for you have furnished some justification for your sisters. Because your sins were more vile than theirs, they appear more righteous than you. So then, be ashamed and bear your disgrace, for you have made your sisters appear righteous.
53 “‘However, I will restore the fortunes of Sodom and her daughters and of Samaria and her daughters, and your fortunes along with them, 54 so that you may bear your disgrace and be ashamed of all you have done in giving them comfort. 55 And your sisters, Sodom with her daughters and Samaria with her daughters, will return to what they were before; and you and your daughters will return to what you were before. 56 You would not even mention your sister Sodom in the day of your pride, 57 before your wickedness was uncovered. Even so, you are now scorned by the daughters of Edom[e] and all her neighbors and the daughters of the Philistines—all those around you who despise you. 58 You will bear the consequences of your lewdness and your detestable practices, declares the Lord.
59 “‘This is what the Sovereign Lord says: I will deal with you as you deserve, because you have despised my oath by breaking the covenant. 60 Yet I will remember the covenant I made with you in the days of your youth, and I will establish an everlasting covenant with you. 61 Then you will remember your ways and be ashamed when you receive your sisters, both those who are older than you and those who are younger. I will give them to you as daughters, but not on the basis of my covenant with you. 62 So I will establish my covenant with you, and you will know that I am the Lord. 63 Then, when I make atonement for you for all you have done, you will remember and be ashamed and never again open your mouth because of your humiliation, declares the Sovereign Lord.’”

 

[tailgator]

Argue with God and tell him he is wrong and sware Jerusalem is not a prostitute .Then explain to God that it's not Jerusalem that is a prostitute,it's Rome.

 

[Brakelite]

Men have been called beasts in scripture. The second beast is the FP who is a singular person. The ten horned beast is an empire.

A beast has also been used to represent a person or persons:

Ecclesiastes 3:18 I said in mine heart concerning the estate of the sons of men, that God might manifest them, and that they might see that they themselves are beasts.


Titus 1:12 One of themselves, even a prophet of their own, said, The Cretians are alway liars, evil beasts, slow bellies.


2 Peter 2:12 But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;


Jude 1:10 But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves.

None of those examples are in context of prophecy. They are simply insulting remarks made by the inspired writers concerning mankind in general. No angel, nor the Lord, started that the second beast of Revelation 13, is an individual. The false prophet yes, but not an individual. A fallen nation, as the consistent interpretation demand, and as the timeline purposes. The first beast is the papacy. For reasons I will give in my next post. The second beast is Protestant America, who will soon form a union of church and state and cause the world, to worship and honour the papal church by obeying her commandments sad opposed to the commandments of God. Those who keep God's commandments and have the faith of Jesus are the exception. They receive the seal of God. Everyone else is deceived by the signs and wonders, the fire from heaven (false Pentecost)and are to receive the mark of the beast.

 

[ewq1938]

Argue with God and tell him he is wrong and sware Jerusalem is not a prostitute .Then explain to God that it's not Jerusalem that is a prostitute,it's Rome.

Jerusalem is called Holy in Rev 11. The city is holy to God, but the people living there can be bad, corrupted etc.

 

[ewq1938]

None of those examples are in context of prophecy.

But it is true that a person can metaphorically be a beast and this is exactly the case with the FP. Two beasts seen in Rev 13. One is a kingdom and one is a person.

 

[Phoneman777]

The fourth beast to rise in the promised land isn't Rome.
The word of God shows that it is Jerusalem that is the prostitute but you claim its Rome.

No, Jerusalem never reigned over the kings of the Earth - that is ROME.

Isaiah 1:21
See how the faithful city has become a prostitute! She once was full of justice; righteousness used to dwell in her— but now murderers!

Yes, and the whore of Revelation 17 says tye same thing about the church. So what?

Can you quote a single verse from any prophet of God or even Christ calling Rome a prostitute?

"And that woman (the whore of Revelation 17) IS THAT GREAT CITY which reigneth over the kings of the Earth (ROME)".

At the time John received the revelation, it was Rome that sits upon "7 hills" and was reigning "over the kings of the Earth".

 

[Phoneman777]

Why do you continue to ignore God and listen to fools?If you have a single quote about Rome being a prostitute in the word of God ,then quote it.

I refuse to debate someone who has so one sided an understanding.

Put down the Jesuit nonsense and open up the books of the Protestant Reformers and find out why they bleieved what they believed - or are you afraid what you might discover?

It never ceases to amaze me how those who understand nothing about Protestant Historicism presume to tell me what's wrong with it.

 

[Phoneman777]

How Many times must God call Jerusalem a prostitute before you would actually believe him?


32 “‘You adulterous wife! You prefer strangers to your own husband! 33 All prostitutes receive gifts, but you give gifts to all your lovers, bribing them to come to you from everywhere for your illicit favors. 34 So in your prostitution you are the opposite of others; no one runs after you for your favors. You are the very opposite, for you give payment and none is given to you.

35 “‘Therefore, you prostitute, hear the word of the Lord! 36 This is what the Sovereign Lord says: Because you poured out your lust and exposed your naked body in your promiscuity with your lovers, and because of all your detestable idols, and because you gave them your children’s blood, 37 therefore I am going to gather all your lovers, with whom you found pleasure, those you loved as well as those you hated. I will gather them against you from all around and will strip you in front of them, and they will see you stark naked. 38 I will sentence you to the punishment of women who commit adultery and who shed blood; I will bring on you the blood vengeance of my wrath and jealous anger. 39 Then I will deliver you into the hands of your lovers, and they will tear down your mounds and destroy your lofty shrines. They will strip you of your clothes and take your fine jewelry and leave you stark naked. 40 They will bring a mob against you, who will stone you and hack you to pieces with their swords. 41 They will burn down your houses and inflict
punishment on you in the sight of many women. I will put a stop to your prostitution, and you will no longer pay your lovers. 42 Then my wrath against you will subside and my jealous anger will turn away from you; I will be calm and no longer angry.

43 “‘Because you did not remember the days of your youth but enraged me with all these things, I will surely bring down on your head what you have done, declares the Sovereign Lord. Did you not add lewdness to all your other detestable practices?

44 “‘Everyone who quotes proverbs will quote this proverb about you: “Like mother, like daughter.” 45 You are a true daughter of your mother, who despised her husband and her children; and you are a true sister of your sisters, who despised their husbands and their children. Your mother was a Hittite and your father an Amorite. 46 Your older sister was Samaria, who lived to the north of you with her daughters; and your younger sister, who lived to the south of you with her daughters, was Sodom. 47 You not only followed their ways and copied their detestable practices, but in all your ways you soon became more depraved than they. 48 As surely as I live, declares the Sovereign Lord, your sister Sodom and her daughters never did what you and your daughters have done.

49 “‘Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy. 50 They were haughty and did detestable things before me. Therefore I did away with them as you have seen. 51 Samaria did not commit half the sins you did. You have done more detestable things than they, and have made your sisters seem righteous by all these things you have done. 52 Bear your disgrace, for you have furnished some justification for your sisters. Because your sins were more vile than theirs, they appear more righteous than you. So then, be ashamed and bear your disgrace, for you have made your sisters appear righteous.
53 “‘However, I will restore the fortunes of Sodom and her daughters and of Samaria and her daughters, and your fortunes along with them, 54 so that you may bear your disgrace and be ashamed of all you have done in giving them comfort. 55 And your sisters, Sodom with her daughters and Samaria with her daughters, will return to what they were before; and you and your daughters will return to what you were before. 56 You would not even mention your sister Sodom in the day of your pride, 57 before your wickedness was uncovered. Even so, you are now scorned by the daughters of Edom[e] and all her neighbors and the daughters of the Philistines—all those around you who despise you. 58 You will bear the consequences of your lewdness and your detestable practices, declares the Lord.
59 “‘This is what the Sovereign Lord says: I will deal with you as you deserve, because you have despised my oath by breaking the covenant. 60 Yet I will remember the covenant I made with you in the days of your youth, and I will establish an everlasting covenant with you. 61 Then you will remember your ways and be ashamed when you receive your sisters, both those who are older than you and those who are younger. I will give them to you as daughters, but not on the basis of my covenant with you. 62 So I will establish my covenant with you, and you will know that I am the Lord. 63 Then, when I make atonement for you for all you have done, you will remember and be ashamed and never again open your mouth because of your humiliation, declares the Sovereign Lord.’”

He calls the whore of Revelation 17 "Babylon" (which Peter says is Rome) and plainly tell you she is "that great city which reigneth over the kings of the Earth" when at the time of John's writing, Jerusalem wasn't reigning over anyone - it was in ruins!

You know nothing about the core issues of Protestant Historicism, so it is no surprise that you can't see the truth.

You're essentially picking up a puzzle piece one at a time, looking at the Protestant Historicist picture on the box, and then claiming "nah, this doesn't look like anything".

You've got to put the pieces together before you can determine if the image that emerges is the same Protestant Historicist image on the box cover!

 

[Brakelite]

The issue is too many people attempting to interpret Revelation without understanding Daniel. Their conclusions regarding Daniel means their conclusions regarding Revelation are all over the place, and why no two people who claim to be futurists are in agreement.

 

[tailgator]

Jerusalem is called Holy in Rev 11. The city is holy to God, but the people living there can be bad, corrupted etc.

Yes,it has to do with the people of the city and it's leaders.

 

[tailgator]

No, Jerusalem never reigned over the kings of the Earth - that is ROME.

Yes, and the whore of Revelation 17 says tye same thing about the church. So what?

"And that woman (the whore of Revelation 17) IS THAT GREAT CITY which reigneth over the kings of the Earth (ROME)".

At the time John received the revelation, it was Rome that sits upon "7 hills" and was reigning "over the kings of the Earth".

Jerusalem reigns over the kings of the earth after the king of the north gives Israel his armed forces and abolishes the daily sacrifice.

You act as though the two witnesses in Jerusalem have no power over those nations that attack Jerusalem and kill them .That is the day Babylon falls .

 

[tailgator]

I refuse to debate someone who has so one sided an understanding.

Put down the Jesuit nonsense and open up the books of the Protestant Reformers and find out why they bleieved what they believed - or are you afraid what you might discover?

It never ceases to amaze me how those who understand nothing about Protestant Historicism presume to tell me what's wrong with it.

You ignore God like no other.God says Jerusalem is a prostitute and you argue that it's Rome.

You can't even explain why all the nations attack Jerusalem and not Rome on the day of the Lord.