The social gospel?

[Eternally Grateful]

The only problem with that is, the dead are not weary, so they won't come

yet we see thousands of people in scripture who came.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I agree, "no one can understand the truth", because the truth is the most mysterious person who ever lived. Jesus said "I am the truth", so we know Jesus is the Almighty Creator God. We also know that nobody can get into the mind of God, so He will remain mysterious forever. Most people think that "truth" is a thing, they fail to realize that truth is God Himself.

I don't know what you mean by "people avoid the real issues". There is only one issue which should concern everyone, Jesus said there are only two types of people in the world, the children of God and the children of the Devil. The only issue everyone has to face is, who's child are they, all of the other issues pale into insignificance.

I don't agree with your view regarding Arminius championing Jesus' humanity and Calvin championing Jesus' divinity. If I was to boil it down, I would say Arminius preached a works based gospel and Calvin preached a grace based gospel.
Arminius believed we would be saved according to our works and Calvin preached that we are saved according to Gods predestined election, and nothing to do with our choice or works.

It's not possible to avoid arguments in the Church and family. Jesus promised this would happen. He said I didn't come to bring peace, He also said that many false prophets would come after His departure. What we see happening, is exactly what He promised. We actually have 45,000 Denominations, the figure I quoted was from my memory of around 4 years ago. So we see another 5,000 have been created and we can expect the number to grow exponentially in the years to come.
So arguments can't be avoided when the Church is pulling in 45,000 different directions.

Lol

there is one gospel That saves

For God so loved the world. He gave his only begotten son, that whoever BELIEVES (trust) in Him will NEVER PERISH, but will live forever (eternal life)

eternal security is with God. The person you just liked and agreed with rejects eternal security. but as they say, the enemy of my enemy is my friend?

lol too funny, you can’t make this stuff up

 

[Hepzibah]

Blessings John. You notice I call you John and not Episkopos. That would be lie to call you that as you are not a Episkopos. You seem to have some delusion that God has called you to some high office when He has not. I have seen that from the beginning, from my very first post. You had a thread about the sower. And you gave your teaching on it. Well you did not know The Lord(Jesus) told me to put His very own words of explanation to His disciples the meaning of the parable of the sower. And one person came forward and liked the post, but not you. And why is that? Are your teachings more important than Jesus's own words? Jesus said, you will know them by their fruit. I came and gave you a few warnings, and this was not of myself. But instead you continue treating people this way. Well I am here to tell you today The Lord has every idle word you have spoken against His Sons and His Daughters. Perhaps you will try to say to Him, but I was just the mirror. Here is my intent, to bring this to you that you might repent, that you might turn from this abuse of others and be taught the ways of God. How to love and not abuse, how to lift up and not put down. How to esteem others as more important than oneself. Is that not the example Jesus left us on The Cross. So there it is. You can laugh, you can mock, you can be clever, or you can turn and live. For The Power of life and death is in the tongue.

You are right and I will join you on that in calling him John.

John, in the early church, no-one was accepted as an overseer, a bishop who was not in the state of Theosis or higher walk if you like. In NT times, it included deacons:

1 Tim 9: They must hold the mystery of the faith with a clear conscience. 10 And let them also be tested first; then let them serve as deacons if they prove themselves blameless.

I hardly think that bishops went in and out of their role so it must have been those who were settled in their faith.

I have 'liked posts where you have spoken the truth, as you know I also believe the doctrine and have also walked the higher way in times past. Perhaps the Lord is not allowing it in the present times for His own reasons.

However, one should still be enlightened and some of the things you say I must disagree with strongly, like your idea that non Christians who intend to live rightly, are considered righteous by God and will gain the kingdom. No. Romans 1:17 puts a stop to that nonsense,

For the gospel reveals the righteousness of God that comes by faith from start to finish, just as it is written: “The righteous will live by faith.”

Your version of entire sanctification is a rough one that the Holiness Movement preached, yet you never give any quotations or any credit to any of them. No, you are the only person ever, who has the truth apparently. You have obviously read them and learned about the doctrine, but your initial testimony of just being zapped as it were out of the blue when a charismatic revival (false) was taking place, is not in line with other holiness teachers who like me went through a severe test beforehand.

But the real issue is the way you are handling your opposition on this forum which I have taken issue with for a while now, and so am adding my voice in the hopes that you will hear as the number of voices stack up. You are not behaving in a godly manner. You come across as arrogant as you keep repeating that no-one but you has it right, berating people for not being in the 'higher' walk yet you yourself are not there.

You are beating people with a stick when John Wesley stressed that we should draw people to Christ, and be gentle, showing love and kindness, thinking more highly of others.

Well I guess I am done, and hope you have not entirely seared your conscience.

 

[Ritajanice]

Bible Verses About Hypocrisy​

Bible verses related to Hypocrisy from the King James Version (KJV) ​

1 John 4:20 - If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?

James 1:26 - If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion is vain.

Matthew 7:5 - Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

Matthew 6:1 - Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven.

Matthew 7:1-5 - Judge not, that ye be not judged. (Read More...)

Matthew 15:7-9 - Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying, (Read More...)

Romans 2:3 - And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?

1 John 2:9 - He that saith he is in the light, and hateth his brother, is in darkness even until now.

Luke 12:2 - For there is nothing covered, that shall not be revealed; neither hid, that shall not be known.

James 2:14-26 - What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? (Read More...)

2 Timothy 3:5 - Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

Matthew 7:15 - Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

Titus 1:16 - They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

1 John 2:4 - He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Blessings John. You notice I call you John and not Episkopos. That would be lie to call you that as you are not a Episkopos. You seem to have some delusion that God has called you to some high office when He has not. I have seen that from the beginning, from my very first post. You had a thread about the sower. And you gave your teaching on it. Well you did not know The Lord(Jesus) told me to put His very own words of explanation to His disciples the meaning of the parable of the sower. And one person came forward and liked the post, but not you. And why is that? Are your teachings more important than Jesus's own words? Jesus said, you will know them by their fruit. I came and gave you a few warnings, and this was not of myself. But instead you continue treating people this way. Well I am here to tell you today The Lord has every idle word you have spoken against His Sons and His Daughters. Perhaps you will try to say to Him, but I was just the mirror. Here is my intent, to bring this to you that you might repent, that you might turn from this abuse of others and be taught the ways of God. How to love and not abuse, how to lift up and not put down. How to esteem others as more important than oneself. Is that not the example Jesus left us on The Cross. So there it is. You can laugh, you can mock, you can be clever, or you can turn and live. For The Power of life and death is in the tongue.

Interesting His name is John. Thats good to know

 

[Eternally Grateful]

You are proud and deluded. Putting on an act...you don't know what truth and reality are.

I'm not playing a game. You can fool pretenders perhaps...

You just proved his point actually.

You are playing a game, you have been since I first met you. And was warned by so many about you. You have proven everyone of them right. You can gather a group of people all you want. It does not make you right in what you preach.

If anyone here is proud and deluded. It is the one who tells everyone who disagrees with them proud and deluded.

As always, I would try to practice what you preach. When you do the very thing you judge others of doing, it just makes you look bad.

I know your followers think you do no wrong. They prove that by liking everything you say. But when it comes to others who see what you do.. Well it does not help you any.

 

[Episkopos]

I agree, "no one can understand the truth", because the truth is the most mysterious person who ever lived.

I didn't say that. The truth can indeed be known, but not by the majority....never by the majority. Pride is in the way. Jesus says...you will know the truth and truth will set you free." That alone should change your attitude.....or will you stiffen your neck like so many here? Allow some humility into your process.

Jesus said "I am the truth", so we know Jesus is the Almighty Creator God. We also know that nobody can get into the mind of God, so He will remain mysterious forever.

Paul says..we have the mind of Christ.....who IS God.

Most people think that "truth" is a thing, they fail to realize that truth is God Himself.

And we are to walk IN Him.

I don't know what you mean by "people avoid the real issues". There is only one issue which should concern everyone, Jesus said there are only two types of people in the world, the children of God and the children of the Devil. The only issue everyone has to face is, who's child are they, all of the other issues pale into insignificance.

Jesus spoke that from a holiness perspective...just like...there is none righteous no not one...and then he talks about righteous people.

What people can't understand is the dual nature of a spiritual walk.

I don't agree with your view regarding Arminius championing Jesus' humanity and Calvin championing Jesus' divinity. If I was to boil it down, I would say Arminius preached a works based gospel and Calvin preached a grace based gospel.

You are missing the point, the same as those whom you are trying to correct. So you are in a closet still feeling around for the door.

Arminius believed we would be saved according to our works and Calvin preached that we are saved according to Gods predestined election, and nothing to do with our choice or works.

Both have truth in it. There is a higher walk according to God's purpose. And there is a lower walk that depends on what we do.

It's not possible to avoid arguments in the Church and family.

Carnal people squabble over theories. But a disciple KNOWS GOD for real. God is a Genius of course, so that the answers are all there...but people are WAY too stubborn, and blind, and deaf, to hear any of it. It all sounds like ego....to the ego.

Jesus promised this would happen. He said I didn't come to bring peace, He also said that many false prophets would come after His departure. What we see happening, is exactly what He promised.

No peace between the spiritual and the carnal..unless the carnal humble themselves and repent.

And Jesus also prayed that we would all be one. And we are when we enter INTO Him....to experience the same eternal life.

As long as people remain in the futility of their own minds and imaginations...there will be war...based on self-interest, self-preservation.

After so many years of futility, VERY VERY few have come out of the woods so to speak.

We actually have 45,000 Denominations, the figure I quoted was from my memory of around 4 years ago. So we see another 5,000 have been created and we can expect the number to grow exponentially in the years to come.
So arguments can't be avoided when the Church is pulling in 45,000 different directions.

Because men are rebellious by nature and can't abide sound doctrine. So let them endlessly squabble in a flesh-loop. And let them give accolades for championing one falsehood over another.

 

[Episkopos]

You are right and I will join you on that in calling him John.

John, in the early church, no-one was accepted as an overseer, a bishop who was not in the state of Theosis or higher walk if you like. In NT times, it included deacons:

That is wrong. You are not understanding the training of a saint. It would be like saying...no one can command an army unless he is presently fighting in a war. But people who have EXPERIENCED the war and had victories is BETTER suited to command than a novice soldier.

So then I would say no overseer should be acknowledged who has NOT EXPERIENCED theosis...and is still carnal by nature and temperament.

And besides a screen name is NOT a title.

I'm not an overseer here...just a poster like everyone else. So you can dishonour me all you want...that just shows the very common rebellious streak in someone who is NOT in theosis...or maybe never has.

1 Tim 9: They must hold the mystery of the faith with a clear conscience. 10 And let them also be tested first; then let them serve as deacons if they prove themselves blameless.

I hardly think that bishops went in and out of their role so it must have been those who were settled in their faith.

But that's what you are suggesting. You are theorizing what makes a church function on a spiritual level. A man can go in and out of the Spirit...like Paul says he did...without losing the character and understanding that is required to guide the flock. A real disciple will tell you that he is not in the higher walk. A false disciple will say there's no problem walking the narrow way...piece of cake. So which would you trust with important decisions? Think about it.

I have 'liked posts where you have spoken the truth, as you know I also believe the doctrine and have also walked the higher way in times past. Perhaps the Lord is not allowing it in the present times for His own reasons.

Because of your own blindness in this area.

However, one should still be enlightened and some of the things you say I must disagree with strongly, like your idea that non Christians who intend to live rightly, are considered righteous by God and will gain the kingdom. No. Romans 1:17 puts a stop to that nonsense,

LOL. See, you are only seeing one part of the divine equation. Is it wrong for a non-believer to live AS IF God was real and thereby obey Jesus? To believe in gravity do we have to fall correctly?

Jesus said...he who is not against us is for us.

So you want to destroy the simple walk of a child to uphold a higher spiritual consciousness? No...you have no love in your equation at all.

You forget that God is love. He loves simple acts of kindness...even giving a cup of cold water to a disciple. But you are not seeing the immensity of God's mercy...only as it applies to yourself...like so many here.

Will you be ashamed? It depends if you have truly experienced theosis. That's the test. No theory...just the mind of Christ...from He who said...let the little children come to Me. Do a study on the Hebrew word tamim. It's what God and children have in common.

For the gospel reveals the righteousness of God that comes by faith from start to finish, just as it is written: “The righteous will live by faith.”

On both levels. The verse says by HIS faith. The original verse in Habbakuk. . It is...tsadik be-emounato yichyeh. Notice the 3rd person singular for the word faith (or faithfulness)

A man lives in his own faith and faithfulness. And God can impute righteousness to a man outside of His life.

And..a man can live in HIS (Christ's) righteousness in the higher walk.

Your version of entire sanctification is a rough one that the Holiness Movement preached, yet you never give any quotations or any credit to any of them.

I am speaking of my own experience...only. I am no different than any holiness preacher.

No, you are the only person ever, who has the truth apparently.

I seem to be the only one who is open to bigger picture truth...around here. You might have noticed that others here agree with my assessment. So then they are also open to the truth I am speaking. And if I like the posts of others it's because I agree with their assessment on a subject. I go subject by subject.


And it is your ego that is offended. Why be offended? If you lived at any time where there was an honest to goodness holiness preacher, you would reproach him for not citing previous ones...etc So your attitude is being exposed.

You have obviously read them and learned about the doctrine, but your initial testimony of just being zapped as it were out of the blue when a charismatic revival (false) was taking place, is not in line with other holiness teachers who like me went through a severe test beforehand.

Subjective and false...now you are departing from the truth to indulge a religious ego.

But the real issue is the way you are handling your opposition on this forum which I have taken issue with for a while now, and so am adding my voice in the hopes that you will hear as the number of voices stack up. You are not behaving in a godly manner.

I am testifying of the truth. I am very patient as I have been saying things over and over for many years now. Every day is a new day. And I get attacked everyday by pretenders who are looking for approval for their unbelief.

People choose their own churches...where they feel comfortable. I am speaking VERY UNcomfortable truth. But those who hear the truth are edified in the inner man. So you have to come out of your carnal dependence to appreciate what I have to say. You have to turn on yourself. Then you will have approval from me. If you see that as bad then you don't understand what a spiritual man/woman should be doing.

I'm obeying my Master...the Lord Jesus...whom I know. Do you think Jesus is easy to hear?

You come across as arrogant as you keep repeating that no-one but you has it right,

Again, I don't ever say that. God has people all over the world who hear Him and walk in truth. But they are spread out in the world speaking various languages. Remember that English is a minority language.

berating people for not being in the 'higher' walk yet you yourself are not there.

false and one-dimensional. You may not know this but I have a balanced two level approach...based on the goodness AND severity of God.

I am both criticized for championing the meek of the world...who don't know God...but are righteous...and correcting pretenders who SAY they have God's righteousness imputed to them but lie.

I exhort and plead with people to consider a higher walk in Christ that is waiting for them IF they seek God's face. Seek Him and live.

Go back as many years as you want...look up my posts...it's always a two level argument. The spiritually proud will disagree with God's mercy on childlike people. The religiously arrogant will claim things from the bible for themselves that proves they don't know Him.

You are beating people with a stick when John Wesley stressed that we should draw people to Christ, and be gentle, showing love and kindness, thinking more highly of others.

When the inner man is involved...yes. But Jesus came to bring a sword and fire. Why? Because the outer man rules over the enslaved inner man. But my inner man is free and appealing to other inner men to RISE up against your own spiritual bondage to the now religious outer man. So each has his/her own overcoming to accomplish.

And besides John Wesley was never on the internet. And if you think for one second that he would go easy on the flesh or false doctrines...you don't know reality. In real life I'm very easy going. No one would suspect I'm a spiritual firebrand. ;)

Well I guess I am done, and hope you have not entirely seared your conscience.

Likewise. May the Lord guide you into humility and spiritual discernment. ...and to know His mercy on the righteous, the poor, the afflicted. God is a Father.

Our own attitude dictates whether we will be treated with either the goodness or the severity of God.

 

[Episkopos]

For those who are offended at the truth I am speaking, well, I am winning some to the truth. If you have not yet been won over, you will just have to wait your turn! Be patient. ;)

 

[Hepzibah]

Since, according to my opinion, the grades here in the Church, of bishops, presbyters, deacons, are imitations of the angelic glory, and of that economy which, the Scriptures say, awaits those who, following the footsteps of the apostles, have lived in perfection of righteousness according to the Gospel. (Stromata, Book VI, 13) St. Clement of Alexandria (c. 150- c. 215)

If the apostles had known hidden mysteries, which they were in the habit of imparting to the perfect apart and privily from the rest, they would have delivered them especially to those to whom they were also committing the Churches themselves. For they were desirous that these men should be very perfect and blameless in all things, whom also they were leaving behind as their successors, delivering up their own place of government to these men; which men, . . . (Against Heresies, Bk III, 3, 3, 1) Iraneus

 

[Episkopos]

Since, according to my opinion, the grades here in the Church, of bishops, presbyters, deacons, are imitations of the angelic glory, and of that economy which, the Scriptures say, awaits those who, following the footsteps of the apostles, have lived in perfection of righteousness according to the Gospel. (Stromata, Book VI, 13) St. Clement of Alexandria (c. 150- c. 215)

Notice the "have lived in" I bolded above. I agree with St. Clement. All who are godly in Christ HAVE LIVED IN His perfection, which now informs their daily walk. That's discipleship 101.

If the apostles had known hidden mysteries, which they were in the habit of imparting to the perfect apart and privily from the rest, they would have delivered them especially to those to whom they were also committing the Churches themselves. For they were desirous that these men should be very perfect and blameless in all things, whom also they were leaving behind as their successors, delivering up their own place of government to these men; which men, . . . (Against Heresies, Bk III, 3, 3, 1) Iraneus

Perfect and blameless is about attitude (Tamim) to be perfect as God is perfect...and is based on humility...not being puffed up by position or privilege.

And this is an OT standard. Read about how Zacharias was blameless according to the law.

 

[Lizbeth]

You are right and I will join you on that in calling him John.

John, in the early church, no-one was accepted as an overseer, a bishop who was not in the state of Theosis or higher walk if you like. In NT times, it included deacons:

1 Tim 9: They must hold the mystery of the faith with a clear conscience. 10 And let them also be tested first; then let them serve as deacons if they prove themselves blameless.

I hardly think that bishops went in and out of their role so it must have been those who were settled in their faith.

I have 'liked posts where you have spoken the truth, as you know I also believe the doctrine and have also walked the higher way in times past. Perhaps the Lord is not allowing it in the present times for His own reasons.

However, one should still be enlightened and some of the things you say I must disagree with strongly, like your idea that non Christians who intend to live rightly, are considered righteous by God and will gain the kingdom. No. Romans 1:17 puts a stop to that nonsense,

For the gospel reveals the righteousness of God that comes by faith from start to finish, just as it is written: “The righteous will live by faith.”

Your version of entire sanctification is a rough one that the Holiness Movement preached, yet you never give any quotations or any credit to any of them. No, you are the only person ever, who has the truth apparently. You have obviously read them and learned about the doctrine, but your initial testimony of just being zapped as it were out of the blue when a charismatic revival (false) was taking place, is not in line with other holiness teachers who like me went through a severe test beforehand.

But the real issue is the way you are handling your opposition on this forum which I have taken issue with for a while now, and so am adding my voice in the hopes that you will hear as the number of voices stack up. You are not behaving in a godly manner. You come across as arrogant as you keep repeating that no-one but you has it right, berating people for not being in the 'higher' walk yet you yourself are not there.

You are beating people with a stick when John Wesley stressed that we should draw people to Christ, and be gentle, showing love and kindness, thinking more highly of others.

Well I guess I am done, and hope you have not entirely seared your conscience.

Amen....ye shall "know" (discern) them by their fruits.

And when someone is trying to re-invent the wheel that God invented....it robs Him of His glory.

 

[Episkopos]

Amen....ye shall "know" (discern) them by their fruits.

watch for outer man ego defensiveness and touchiness. That's the flesh trying to exalt itself. Don't let it.

And when someone is trying to re-invent the wheel that God invented....it robs Him of His glory.

Amen. The modern gospel is based on people trying to save themselves...by imputing God's righteousness to themselves...by self-justification...condemning the poor and needy...and promising proud people eternal life for believing a salvation scheme cooked up in the nether regions.

The glory of God is to HIDE the truth from such people. The honour of kings is to discover what God has hidden so well from the self-interested ones. He reveals the truth to a child-like heart.

God be praised.

 

[Lizbeth]

watch for outer man ego defensiveness and touchiness. That's the flesh trying to exalt itself. Don't let it.

Amen. The modern gospel is based on people trying to save themselves...by imputing God's righteousness to themselves...by self-justification...condemning the poor and needy...and promising proud people eternal life for believing a salvation scheme cooked up in the nether regions.

The glory of God is to HIDE the truth from such people. The honour of kings is to discover what God has hidden so well from the self-interested ones. He reveals the truth to a child-like heart.

God be praised.

Self-justification.......is what people are doing when they go around polishing their halo.

While you have some truth it is mixed with a lot of error. As the Lord showed me not long ago....mixture is unequivocally NOT OF HIM. He is such a faithful shepherd and guardian of my soul. So I must reject the whole package of what you are doing. Do you know what spirit you are of?

 

[Episkopos]

Self-justification.......is what people are doing when they go around polishing their halo.

While you have some truth it is mixed with a lot of error.

Actually you only see part of the truth..and assume you know where I'm "off"...not catering to you "foundation" which you admit is in yourself. You rail at me for saying that the foundation is in Christ...alone. To build WHERE HE IS. Where your treasure is there is your heart. And that was not inside a person.

So in your opinion I'm off because I don't recognize your foundation???

As the Lord showed me not long ago....mixture is unequivocally NOT OF HIM.

exactly...but balance is. An unjust balance is abomination with God. The word for "balance" in the scriptures in Moznayim...meaning "FROM ears". So God is expressing how we should hear with BOTH ears...the divine balance of both righteousness AND holiness.

He is such a faithful shepherd and guardian of my soul. So I must reject the whole package of what you are doing. Do you know what spirit you are of?

Yes. And it is HIS faithfulness that sends you His servants to correct your path. Will you listen?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Got to love epi and his group of women who love everything he posts

Does that make you feel good epi?

Because that is the only reward you will get if you do not repent

 

[Episkopos]

Got to love epi and his group of women who love everything he posts

Does that make you feel good epi?

Does it make you feel bad EG? Resentful? A carnal person doesn't realize how that carnality sticks out like a big red flag.

God is love. And the brethren have love one for another...we are members one of another. That is fully outside the ego comparisons you are trying to make.

Because that is the only reward you will get if you do not repent

I realize you are an actor here..trying to play a role. Maybe you don't understand that this is a forum...an artificial platform where ideas are discussed. This is NOT a true representation of people or the world. Are you really called EG? NO, you are hiding behind a persona...what you want people to think you are...basically an actor. The fact that you take things that seriously shows that your acting goes far beyond the confines of this artificial forum.

I'm only amused at your acting..not taking you seriously at all..as if we are sitting at a table and you are reading a script that has your role written out for you.

PS. I'm not taking myself seriously either for the most part. Within my "act" I speak the truth for those who can hear it.

 

[Episkopos]

This is a good forum because they are not deciding who is speaking the truth and who is not. So often a forum is run by the same bullies that chase the meek out of the institutions. Bullies do try to intimidate here too..but are rebuffed...much to the consternation of bullies who are used to getting their way.

But each one here gets a chance to use their freedom...of thought and speech...within certain limits of course. People get a chance to hear an approach that is not based on numbers and popularity. People can discover the truth...and the ancient paths being spoken of as if they were still available for those with the faith to seek God for them.

Are they? Is it possible to seek and find what we read about in Acts? There are differing views on this as there must be. But each one should be convinced in their own mind. God is watching and waiting.

Let the games continue...the mind-games...the mind-palaces being erected or demolished.

 

[Laurina]

This is a good forum because they are not deciding who is speaking the truth and who is not. So often a forum is run by the same bullies that chase the meek out of the institutions. Bullies do try to intimidate here too..but are rebuffed...much to the consternation of bullies who are used to getting their way.

But each one here gets a chance to use their freedom...of thought and speech...within certain limits of course. People get a chance to hear an approach that is not based on numbers and popularity. People can discover the truth...and the ancient paths being spoken of as if they were still available for those with the faith to seek God for them.

Are they? Is it possible to seek and find what we read about in Acts? There are differing views on this as there must be. But each one should be convinced in their own mind. God is watching and waiting.

Let the games continue...the mind-games...the mind-palaces being erected or demolished.

Love it, Epi!!

Game on!! :)

 

[Wynona]

They both obviously do have some aspects of the truth, but the bible says "a little yeast effects the whole lump of bread dough". Likewise mixing the truth with lies spoils the whole message.

Jacob Arminius and John Calvin had fundamentally different interpretation's of the gospel. Thy disagreed on the core principals, so their views are irreconcilable. This led to the Church dividing into 40,000 Denominations, the Church is still divided over those core issues to this day.

1. Calvin believed that man is born totally depraved and spiritually dead. as such he can't respond to spiritual things as he has no concept of them. They are foolishness to him.
Arminius believed that man's nature was affected by the fall but he did not fully die (spiritually). He believes that man retained the ability to understand spiritual things and choose to believe the gospel.

2. Calvin believed that God choose certain individuals for salvation before the foundation of the world, His choice was not based on any foreseen obedience or response to the gospel such as faith, repentance etc. God chose to give faith and repentance to certain individuals according to His sovereign, will.
Aminius believed that God looked into the future and saw who would respond to the gospel with faith and repentance, so He elected them before the foundations of the world.

3. Calvin believed that Christ's redeeming work was intended to save the elect only, and His death actually secured salvation for all of them.
Arminius believed that Christ's redeeming work made it possible for everyone to be saved, but it didn't actually secure salvation for anyone.

4. Calvin believed that the Holy Spirit works inwardly on the elect and prepares them to believe the gospel message when they hear it. While those who God didn't elect will never believe the gospel.
Arminius believed that the Holy Spirit also works inwardly on everyone, but most reject it because they have a free will to either accept or reject.

5. Calvin believed, all who are chosen by God, redeemed by Christ and given faith by the Holy Spirit are eternally saved. They are kept in the faith by the power of God so they persevere to the end.
Arminius believed that, the elect can lose their salvation by failing to keep their faith.

So we see how different these gospels are, they don't have much in common at all.

Thank you. I plan to do a deep dive on both