That's not an argument. That's an attack. If you think my point is not valid, show me your evidence.
The changing perception of hell. - How do you define it?
- Thread starter St. SteVen
- Start date
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is this translation of Matthew 25:46 one of those? https://thetencommandmentsministry.us/ministry/ferrar_fenton/pdf/matthew.pdf
What church did Fenton belong to? I recognize some of those in the list.
I don't see the point. What I see is that you will take what Jesus says in all scripture and deny it and try to say it means something else. If you don't have ears to hear then it doesn't matter what I say or reference.
Proof is scripture from God speaking to create all things to God destroying all those that deny THE WAY, THE TRUTH AND THE LIFE (JESUS) and creating a new home for all His children and Him to live for eternity.
That's quite the accusation there, telling me that I'm not here to learn and that I'm interested in being right, more than knowing the truth. You must really think you know me.
Aionios mistranslated as "eternal" or "everlasting" in Matthew 25:46.
All these verses below use the same NT Greek word, "aionios", the Greek word mistranslated as "eternal" or "everlasting" in Matthew 25:46. See bold below. This shows that "aionios" cannot mean eternal or everlasting.
Matthew 13:22
The seed falling among the thorns refers to someone who hears the word, but the worries of this life and the deceitfulness of wealth choke the word, making it unfruitful.
Romans 12:2
Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will.
1 Corinthians 1:20
Where is the wise person? Where is the teacher of the law? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world?
1 Corinthians 2:8
None of the rulers of this age understood it, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
Ephesians 2:2
in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient.
Galatians 1:4-5 KJV
Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:5 To whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.
Luke 18:29-30
“Truly I tell you,” Jesus said to them, “no one who has left home or wife or brothers or sisters or parents or children for the sake of the kingdom of God 30 will fail to receive many times as much in this age, and in the age to come eternal life.”
Compare: Matthew 12:32; Mark 10:30; Luke 18:30; Luke 20:35; Ephesians 1:21
Aionios, the Greek word mistranslated as "eternal" and "everlasting" in the Bible (eternal hell?)
]
Matthew 25:46 (YLT)
And these shall go away to punishment age-during, but the righteous to life age-during.
Earlier in that same chapter, and as part of that same parable, Jesus says this:
Then shall he say also to those on the left hand, Go ye from me, the cursed, to the fire, the age-during, that hath been prepared for the Devil and his messengers;
At first glance, you may think that reinforces the doctrine of hell, but does it?
First of all, notice that the word "everlasting" is more accurately translated as "age-during" (this translation from Youngs Literal Translation), which immediately throws into question the entire doctrine of eternal torment. Furthermore, this is a parable, so we need to be very careful with interpretation. We simply can not take anything out of it, such as "the fire" and assume it to be literal, anymore than we can assume that God will literally put wheat in his barn as explained in the parable of the tares. We have to assume that everything in a parable is a symbol for something else. Perhaps the barn is a symbol for blessings, and perhaps the fire is a symbol for hardship.
From the OP.
Even very by-the-book Christians are modifying their views on hell, or the afterlife.
As the previous trend for fire-and-brimstone preaching has all but gone the way of the dinosaur.
Leaning toward a more personalized stance on "eternal separation from God". (whatever that means to you)
- What's your definition of hell?
- How do you see the final judgment playing out?
- Will everyone be saved in the end?
- Will the Lord who taught us to love our enemies incinerate his?
--- SEE THE VIDEO IN POST ONE ---
[
Even very by-the-book Christians are modifying their views on hell, or the afterlife.
As the previous trend for fire-and-brimstone preaching has all but gone the way of the dinosaur.
Leaning toward a more personalized stance on "eternal separation from God". (whatever that means to you)
- What's your definition of hell?
- How do you see the final judgment playing out?
- Will everyone be saved in the end?
- Will the Lord who taught us to love our enemies incinerate his?
--- SEE THE VIDEO IN POST ONE ---
[
St. SteVen said:
- Will the Lord who taught us to love our enemies incinerate his?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"If you love those who love you, what reward will you get?" - vs 46
@Freedm -- Here's why I ask that.
Actually, I'm pretty sure you and others have heard this before.
Verse 48 below says: "Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect."
What is this is reference to? The word "therefore" points to what was previously stated.
What is this perfection we are called to? Verse 44 says: "love your enemies".
I believe this is the perfection being referred to in verse 48.
Our heavenly Father loves his "enemies" (in our view)
by causing the sun to rise on the evil and the good,
and sending rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. vs 45
Do we make God out to be something worse than a tax collector (traitor) or a pagan? vs 46-47
Matthew 5:43-48 NIV
“You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor[a] and hate your enemy.’
44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,
45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven.
He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good,
and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous.
46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get?
Are not even the tax collectors doing that?
47 And if you greet only your own people,
what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that?
48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.
[
- Will the Lord who taught us to love our enemies incinerate his?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"If you love those who love you, what reward will you get?" - vs 46
@Freedm -- Here's why I ask that.
Actually, I'm pretty sure you and others have heard this before.
Verse 48 below says: "Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect."
What is this is reference to? The word "therefore" points to what was previously stated.
What is this perfection we are called to? Verse 44 says: "love your enemies".
I believe this is the perfection being referred to in verse 48.
Our heavenly Father loves his "enemies" (in our view)
by causing the sun to rise on the evil and the good,
and sending rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. vs 45
Do we make God out to be something worse than a tax collector (traitor) or a pagan? vs 46-47
Matthew 5:43-48 NIV
“You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor[a] and hate your enemy.’
44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,
45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven.
He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good,
and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous.
46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get?
Are not even the tax collectors doing that?
47 And if you greet only your own people,
what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that?
48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.
[
Last edited:
Beebster
Member
hell
/hel/
Origin
Old English hel, hell, of Germanic origin; related to Dutch hel and German Hölle, from an Indo-European root meaning ‘to cover or hide’.
So, to cover or hide as in the “grave.”
“Sheol” and “hades” are the only two words in scripture that even come close to the original meaning of this word.
The church has fraudulently and irresponsibly created a fairy tale that has led people astray.
In order:
For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. (1 Cor 15:22-24)
Yes. Witness after witness proves that.
Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.
I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear. (Isa 45-22:23)
Every valley shall be filled, and every mountain and hill shall be brought low; and the crooked shall be made straight, and the rough ways shall be made smooth;
And all flesh shall see the salvation of God. (Luk 3-5:6)
No the lake fire is not a geographical location with literal physical fire.
For our God is a consuming fire. (Heb 12:29)
I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance. but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire: (Mat 3:11)
That spiritual fire will burn out the trash and refine the precious:
Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a REWARD.
If any man's work shall be burned, he shall SUFFER LOSS: but he himself shall be saved; YET SO AS BY FIRE. (1 Cor 3:13-15)
That is judgment and the lake of fire at work to bring all men to knowledge of the truth:
Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. (1 Tim 2:4)
It’s all in scripture but some folks have a spirit in them that seeks vengeance:
And when his disciples James and John saw this, they said, Lord, wilt thou that we command fire to come down from heaven, and consume them, even as Elias did?
But he turned, and REBUKED them, and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of. (Luk 9:54-55)
Peace.
Fantastic post!
That is solid gold right there.
Is Revenge a Sin?
Most readers would answer in the affirmative. Yes, revenge is a sin... for us, but not for God. For us, but not for God? Why? Does God operate at a lower standard than he holds us to? Many would bristle at that question. Why? We are required to love our enemies. Jesus taught this as godly...
www.christianityboard.com
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At the end of your life you will regret that you were such a deluded fool that was under deceptions !
The Soul lives on for ever and that is the Hell fire ! that you were a Slave to Satan !
You blew it !
Like who are You ? That's the question !
Are you a Servant of Satan ! such would have to answer yes, if your were not truly Saved.
Even if you were Saved you still will have too go to Purgatory to pay for your Sin's.
Jesus went to Pergatory to collect the OT Saints, for he had won, also in thanks to them and their duty to God. for they were lifted up as worthy of God.
People who reject Purgatory are being mislead by the workings of the Devil !
So people believe that one goes to Heaven or Hell ! But what of people who do not truly deserve Hell ?
A monster goes to Hell for sure !
People going to Heaven ? well not many % of people do in fact !
So that leaves the majority in Purgatory, who have faith and some others who are worthy of Purgatory maybe. but given the chance they would of come to Christ Jesus !
So i see many people have a hissy fit when Purgatory is mentioned, that they go into a filthy insane rage of Hell, so as to reject such ? Most of their points are total nonsense with stupid claims, that has nothing to do with God at all ! but some stupid idiot corrupt Pope etc, that is their whole issue, is based on such works ! that they can not see past such hogwash. because that's not the true issue at all ! That is carnal religious crap ! that they beat up 24/7 ! such is only a one track issue for carnal religious idiots.
In regards the OT and the coming of Christ Jesus has nothing to do with what such clowns love to peddle. so they make such another stupid Tabbo subject ! dismissing Jesus and all in fact, once again for religious carnal displays.
They are truly Satanist who are working so as to condemn everyone in fact ! demanding who goes to Heaven or to Hell in fact they boast of such dribble ! For the Bible points out that people who claim to be Saved ? are not all Saved in fact, for Jesus will say, that I never knew you !
They are Religious Carnal just like the bastard Jews who wanted Jesus out of the way ! For jesus said of such people were of their Father who was a what ? and a what ! Yes they were in fact ! but lucky for the Worthy Jews of God in fact, for they had faith in Holy Moses !
Remember that Moses had many unworthy Jews who wanted to kill him in fact, so who were they in fact of ?
The Soul lives on for ever and that is the Hell fire ! that you were a Slave to Satan !
You blew it !
Like who are You ? That's the question !
Are you a Servant of Satan ! such would have to answer yes, if your were not truly Saved.
Even if you were Saved you still will have too go to Purgatory to pay for your Sin's.
Jesus went to Pergatory to collect the OT Saints, for he had won, also in thanks to them and their duty to God. for they were lifted up as worthy of God.
People who reject Purgatory are being mislead by the workings of the Devil !
So people believe that one goes to Heaven or Hell ! But what of people who do not truly deserve Hell ?
A monster goes to Hell for sure !
People going to Heaven ? well not many % of people do in fact !
So that leaves the majority in Purgatory, who have faith and some others who are worthy of Purgatory maybe. but given the chance they would of come to Christ Jesus !
So i see many people have a hissy fit when Purgatory is mentioned, that they go into a filthy insane rage of Hell, so as to reject such ? Most of their points are total nonsense with stupid claims, that has nothing to do with God at all ! but some stupid idiot corrupt Pope etc, that is their whole issue, is based on such works ! that they can not see past such hogwash. because that's not the true issue at all ! That is carnal religious crap ! that they beat up 24/7 ! such is only a one track issue for carnal religious idiots.
In regards the OT and the coming of Christ Jesus has nothing to do with what such clowns love to peddle. so they make such another stupid Tabbo subject ! dismissing Jesus and all in fact, once again for religious carnal displays.
They are truly Satanist who are working so as to condemn everyone in fact ! demanding who goes to Heaven or to Hell in fact they boast of such dribble ! For the Bible points out that people who claim to be Saved ? are not all Saved in fact, for Jesus will say, that I never knew you !
They are Religious Carnal just like the bastard Jews who wanted Jesus out of the way ! For jesus said of such people were of their Father who was a what ? and a what ! Yes they were in fact ! but lucky for the Worthy Jews of God in fact, for they had faith in Holy Moses !
Remember that Moses had many unworthy Jews who wanted to kill him in fact, so who were they in fact of ?
Beebster
Member
Bruce-Leiter
Well-Known Member
I have been reading the New Testament again for the umpteenth time. Read the Gospel of Matthew and discover Jesus' descriptions of hell. He pictures it as outer darkness where there is "weeping and gnashing of teeth." Of course, other passages picture it a eternally-burning fire.
I think that hell will be the absence of everything and everyone that people have had the desire to rely on in this life for security and satisfaction.
Is God the God of justice, our rightful Judge as our Creator? If he is, as the Bible describes him, he will always be the God of justice; and, sadly, there will always be a hell for all God's rebellious humans,
Mat 25:41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels."
Welcome to the forum, Bruce.
That doesn't sound like a "changing perception of hell". - LOL
That would be "hell". Some are there already in this life.
The question would be; to what end? What would be the purpose? For good or evil?
If my children misbehave, do I have the right, to put them in the oven? I am their rightful creator.
Maybe there's a better solution?
Do you see the irony here?
Why would humans be sent there if it was "prepared for the devil and his angels"?
[
Indeed it does.
Aionios mistranslated as "eternal" or "everlasting" in Matthew 25:46.
All these verses below use the same NT Greek word, "aionios", the Greek word mistranslated as "eternal" or "everlasting" in Matthew 25:46. See bold below. This shows that "aionios" cannot mean eternal or everlasting.
Matthew 13:22
The seed falling among the thorns refers to someone who hears the word, but the worries of this life and the deceitfulness of wealth choke the word, making it unfruitful.
Romans 12:2
Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will.
1 Corinthians 1:20
Where is the wise person? Where is the teacher of the law? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world?
1 Corinthians 2:8
None of the rulers of this age understood it, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
Ephesians 2:2
in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient.
Galatians 1:4-5 KJV
Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:5 To whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.
Luke 18:29-30
“Truly I tell you,” Jesus said to them, “no one who has left home or wife or brothers or sisters or parents or children for the sake of the kingdom of God 30 will fail to receive many times as much in this age, and in the age to come eternal life.”
Compare: Matthew 12:32; Mark 10:30; Luke 18:30; Luke 20:35; Ephesians 1:21
Aionios, the Greek word mistranslated as "eternal" and "everlasting" in the Bible (eternal hell?)
[
