The social gospel?

[Wrangler]

But is there holiness without forgiveness?

Yes. Some things are irreconcilable. Ultimately, God will throw many into the Lake of Fire.

 

[Johann]

All true! And Jesus said, Out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks.

Much love!

True indeed, and my prayer is that I don’t come across as arrogant, a know-it-all, or filled with pride, even though I can sometimes get easily angered. As Proverbs 16:18 reminds us, "Pride goes before destruction, a haughty spirit before a fall." I strive to approach others with humility and grace, as James 1:19-20 teaches: "Everyone should be quick to listen, slow to speak and slow to become angry, because human anger does not produce the righteousness that God desires."
Not that easy and I'm often misunderstood.

Guess my "picture" doesn't help either.
J

 

[marks]

True indeed, and my prayer is that I don’t come across as arrogant, a know-it-all, or filled with pride, even though I can sometimes get easily angered. As Proverbs 16:18 reminds us, "Pride goes before destruction, a haughty spirit before a fall." I strive to approach others with humility and grace, as James 1:19-20 teaches: "Everyone should be quick to listen, slow to speak and slow to become angry, because human anger does not produce the righteousness that God desires."
Not that easy and I'm often misunderstood.

Guess my "picture" doesn't help either.
J

You don't play the games, though, so I don't see you anything like this fellow.

I've seen him for years needling others trying to get them to lose control, then pounce on them when they do. And the other game, "no, that's not it, you are being carnal, you are just trying to save yourself", to whatever someone may reply. Same pattern of deceipt and provocation. There is something seriously wrong, and it shows.

There is something real in you that is not in him.

Much love!

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Ever read Pilgrims Progress? A amazing classical piece of work!
J.

Yes, Loved it

 

[Johann]

You don't play the games, though, so I don't see you anything like this fellow.

I've seen him for years needling others trying to get them to lose control, then pounce on them when they do. And the other game, "no, that's not it, you are being carnal, you are just trying to save yourself", to whatever someone may reply. Same pattern of deceipt and provocation. There is something seriously wrong, and it shows.

There is something real in you that is not in him.

Much love!

I deeply treasure our friendship, brother. Your companionship means a lot to me, and I value your honesty and guidance. Please don’t hesitate to hold me accountable and correct me when I’m out of line. As Proverbs 27:17 says, "As iron sharpens iron, so one person sharpens another." Our friendship thrives on mutual respect and the willingness to help each other grow. Hebrews 10:24-25 also reminds us to "consider how we may spur one another on toward love and good deeds, not giving up meeting together, as some are in the habit of doing, but encouraging one another."
Have a blessed day in Christ Jesus marks.
J.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

A part of that mystery is why the people chose Barabbas rather than Jesus.

Its easy,

Barabbas was a fighter. Jesus was supposed to be a king to free them from rome. But he was a fraud (in their view)

They did not think they needed saved spiritually. They wanted saved here on earth.. so they chose the one the4y thought gave them the better offer.

People prefer amnesty and forgiveness to sacrifice and holiness. That's how God selects His people. We reveal ourselves by our choices.

No thats not it at all.

 

[marks]

But is there holiness without forgiveness?

I don't believe in parsing things that way, myself.

We have nothing from God aside from His common grace until we come to Christ, then we receive everything. After that it's all about growing into it. Maturing in Christ. Put off and put on.

You know these things. Already and not yet. We are made holy and righteous, and we are learning how to be holy and righteous in our ways.

Wouldn't it be truer to say that until we return that same kind of love we aren't fully matured?

Certainly this is the correct answer.

Holding up an "All or nothing" standard in the way done here is a power play, and people who do this generally exempt them self, which appears to me to be the case here.

Much love!

 

[Wrangler]

Not that easy and I'm often misunderstood.

Guess my "picture" doesn't help either.

Why don't you change your pic then?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Eli is all over the place.


Epi, Rita said you are splitting hairs. A little discernment. When people say “Jesus paid for our sins,” they mean the consequences of our sins.

Sadly, I believe you are VERY disingenuous to proclaim “Sins are free.” Everything is free but you have to pay for it.

Amen

A person guilty of a crime and charge has to pay that crime, It comes at a cost.. Only when they pay for that crime are they set free.

Unless someone else pays their debt for them (redemption)

 

[Johann]

Yes, Loved it

Enjoy brother, you have been good to me these last couple of days.
Johann.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

People love free stuff. Did Jesus pay for ALL your sins.

Yes, if he did not pay for any sin, we will pay for it ourself. It costs. it is not free as you say

Well, the bible doesn't say that.

Actually it does.

For you splitting hairs could be the difference between life and death. Not many understand spiritual things.

yes, You do not understand I agree

When the Pharisees claimed to see...Jesus condemned them. Was He not splitting hairs? I ask this to those who think they understand kingdom things.

Back to paying for sins. Wilfull sins are NOT covered by the sacrifice of Christ...and yet this thread is full of stubborn wilfull sinning. Resisting the truth. Who can discern this? Probably none here. Am I splitting hairs again?

So when you sin you just commit an oopsie.

I love it when people try to hide their sin by saying they sinned on accident.

news flash. James said if you stumble (on accident) your still guilty.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Thinking further about the animal…

Philippians 3:9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

To be found in him, not having been clothed in animal skin, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, clothed upon of God —-the Righteousness which is of God by Faith:

why would you add the word animal skin?

when the word righteousness which is of the law is use, it is talking about our own righteousness, which we earn by obeying the law.

The animal skin is used to cover because we have fail to be righteous according to the law.

And its not our righteousness, The law judges us as sinners.

Its the righteousness of the innocent one who paid our debt.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

But are we not to seek holiness the SAME WAY we seek for forgiveness?

Its all of grace

Is there forgiveness WITHOUT holiness?

If your holy you no longer need forgiveness. so this very question falls on its face.

Think about it. Which do you prefer? Barabbas or Jesus?

The person who thinks he does not need saved because they think they are holy. wants to be freed from rome.

Those who understand they need freed from their sin. they look to Jesus

That's the choice that God is giving us. It's not my invention. People will say that I'm making up a holiness standard...because they have been promised eternal life for just being themselves.

He gives us more choices than this

But such unbelief and denials are normal....for those who are blind and deaf.

Yes, You are proof of this

I seem polarized to you, uncompromising.. is a better term...because that's the way God is. He doesn't think like humans do. He gives all and expects ALL in return. You haven't yet understood the upward call. You are temporizing, what you think is "reasonable" without calculating that nothing that Jesus did for us is reasonable. It is extravagant. Like the woman who poured the alabaster perfume on Jesus; head.

You can not meet Gods standard.. stop relying on self. and start relying on God. and teach those who follow you to do the same

If you knew what I have gone through to bring this message...

The message of loss?? thats what your bringing

Repentance is not a tweaking or minor correction in our course. Without repentance we will get farther and farther away.

when will you repent?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

That is something you can talk to God about.

she does not have to. Its in the word of God.

There can be no holiness without forgiveness. only a false hope and false holiness.. because you think you are better than you are.

Thats why they chose barbarous.. and not Jesus

Jesus called them out for their sin and self righteousness.. They crucified him for it. Much like you crucify his children who do the same as he did.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Dr. Laura Schlessinger used to have a radio show I liked to listen to. One thing she'd say that really stuck with me, "when someone shows you who they are, believe them."

We can have a tendency to want to ascribe good motives to others, but others do not always have good motives. When someone shows themself year after year the same, we do well to understand, this is how this person is.

Much love!

most people have shades of truth.. Its the little lie or tweak that they add to this truth which turns their true to a false truth, and destroys the foundation of said truth

 

[VictoryinJesus]

why would you add the word animal skin?

when the word righteousness which is of the law is use, it is talking about our own righteousness, which we earn by obeying the law.

He referred to our own righteousness in the OT as menstrual rags. Having our own righteousness which comes by trying to keep the law by works and not by Faith. Paul lays this out in Romans about the difference between the adulterous woman bound to her husband …who bears sin unto death. And the Free woman who bears righteousness unto Life.

To me that’s has missed the point to say we can be found in Him having our own righteousness which is by the Law “which we EARN by obedience to the law.” (Isn’t this what your blaming epi as saying? Maybe not.) Because it steps away from “not being found having my own righteousness which is by the law” saying instead but we can earn it and that is okay, what is wrong with that you asked? …it’s not an animal or as menstrual rags…. Paul even called it “dung”.

Jesus Christ often called their (those flaunting their own righteousness) boasting in their own righteousness as : wolves, hirelings that leave the flock, lions that devour, dogs that tear, and beast

 

[Eternally Grateful]

He referred to our own righteousness in the OT as menstrual rags.

It has not changed. If we try to offer our righteousness to God it is like offering him menstrual rags.

Having our own righteousness which comes by trying to keep the law by works and not by Faith. Paul lays this out in Romans about the difference between the adulterous woman bound to her husband …who bears sin unto death. And the Free woman who bears righteousness unto Life.

If your trying to save yourself by trying to keep the works of the law this is correct.

Anytime you try to appease God or cause him to save you by your own works is not a good thing. Because no amount of work you can do will cause God to forgive 1 sin, let alone the many we all have committed.

To me that’s has missed the point to say we can be found in Him having our own righteousness which is by the Law “which we EARN by obedience to the law.” (Isn’t this what your are blaming epi as saying?)

No, Thats not my point, My point is I will not get to heaven by trying to be found using my own righteousness according to the law

How do I know I have sinned? the law..

Have I kept the law? No., If I sin even one time (as james said, if I even stumble in one point) I am guilty of it all

The jew thought he was righteous by the law. That's why paul continually had to fight this false thinking.. By the law is knowledge of sin, that the way to eternal life.

Because it steps away from “not being found having my own righteousness which is by the law” saying instead but we can earn it and that is okay,

Is it ok? Its not ok is it?

If I can;t be saved by keeping the standard of the law. How can I be saved by keeping some lower standard. Does that make sense, to me, no it does not. But yet that is what Epi is promoting..

what is wrong with that you asked? …it’s not an animal or as menstrual rags…. Paul even called it “dung”.

The animal was the payment for sin.

From adam until Christ. it was always the death of an animal which purchased atonement or forgiveness of sin.

Thats why I asked why you added it?

Jesus Christ often called their boasting in their own righteousness as : wolves, hirelings that leave the flock, lions that devour, and beast

yet this is what Epi does every time he tried to demand we be holy.. in essence. we need to be like epi.

You will not see me pumping m,y chest. Because I know I am guilty. But look at all the people in here who boast of their righteousness, even if they do no tthink they are. Because its all about how good they are. Not about the death burial and resurrection of Christ. I boast in christ.. I pray we all look to christ and boast in him, and take our focus off ourselves. and how good we think we are.

All have sinned and fall short. There is only one man whoever walked and fulfilled the law. That was Christ. And since he did fulfill the law. He could then sacrifice himself.. so his righteousness could be imputed to all who believe, the same faith abraham had (romans 4)

 

[Johann]

Jesus Christ often called their (those flaunting their own righteousness) boasting in their own righteousness as : wolves, hirelings that leave the flock, lions that devour, dogs that tear, and beast

No one here is flaunting or boasting in his/her own righteousness, that's if I read you right.

 

[Episkopos]

I don't disagree with him about everything...think he reached deep down into Christ in him with the rest of that post. It's possible I might have misunderstood what he meant about Barabbas and Jesus, I am just not getting the connection.

If he would just acknowledge the foundation it might eliminate some of the confusion with the rest.

LOL I affirm that the foundation is found in Christ. The foundation is Jesus Christ. It's not in people as you suggest. Otherwise it is the Buddhist notion of finding the truth within yourself...having spiritual experiences with yourself. No, the foundation is Christ. The location of our building is in heaven not in us. We are to store treasure in heaven...not within you. So as far off as it is possible to be off...so you espouse error.

Why do you need affirmation? Do you want to be congratulated for being a believer? When God accepts our sacrifice, will we not be translated to abide with Christ? Why speculate about anything based on self-interest?

And....the kingdom of God is AMONG you Jesus said to the Pharisees. The kingdom of God is not found in people. It is in a spiritual realm. Seek first the kingdom...seek first yourself?

 

[VictoryinJesus]

No one here is flaunting or boasting in his/her own righteousness, that's if I read you right.

Mostly I was clarifying that it wasn’t non believers he often referred to as such. But the religious dictators. Like the Pharisees. Often bringing attention to how they glorified themselves. That’s all. I wasn’t trying to point at any in particular.