The Galilean wedding is the model for the pre-trib rapture

[Jericho]

The ancient Galilean wedding ceremony is the model for the rapture, specifically the pre-trib rapture. When the Scriptures are compared to the Galilean wedding ceremony, it explains the purpose of the rapture, why the church won’t go through the tribulation, and puts certain biblical passages into proper context. There are very few who understand the significance of the Galilean wedding ceremony, and even fewer who understand the parallels with the pre-trib rapture. That significance, however, would not have been lost on Jesus or His disciples, all of whom were Galilean except for Judas. Nor would it have been lost on the Galileans of the first century, whom Jesus spent most of His time around.

It may be no coincidence that Jesus’ first recorded miracle was turning water into wine at a Galilean wedding. It was as if He was trying to draw attention to the wedding for reasons that will soon become apparent. It’s been said that Jesus taught about the resurrection but not the rapture. Yet, when the words and actions of Jesus are compared with the Galilean wedding ceremony, a different picture emerges. Before we get to that picture, we must first understand the customs and culture that shaped the Galileans in Jesus’ day.

Galilee was originally settled by the tribes of Naphthali and Dan. After the Assyrian invasion in the eighth century BC, the northern ten tribes of Israel were dispersed throughout the vast Assyrian empire. In their place, Assyria repopulated the region with people from all the nations they conquered. In fact, the Book of Isaiah refers to the region as g'lil ha-goyím, meaning 'Galilee of the Nations' or 'Galilee of the Gentiles' (Isaiah 9:1).

Perhaps it was due to this foreign influence that the inhabitants of Galilee developed their own unique customs, traditions, and even speech that differed from the Jews in Judea. This is what made the Galilean wedding ceremony unique. Rabbi Judah (135–217 AD) said, “In Judea they made inquiry concerning the bridegroom and bride three days before the wedding: but in Galilee they did not so. In Judea they allowed the bridegroom and bride private company one hour before the wedding; but they did not so in Galilee. It was a custom in Judea that the married persons should have two friends, one of the family of the bridegroom, and the other of the family of the bride: but it was not so in Galilee. In Judea those friends slept in the same place where the bridegroom and bride slept: but in Galilee it was not so."

One objection may be: how do we know what an ancient Galilean wedding was like? That’s a fair question, however, we do know quite a bit about what a typical Jewish wedding was like in antiquity. And while there were variations between a Jewish wedding in Judea and a Jewish wedding in Galilee, there is enough overlap to give us a pretty good idea of what was involved. The rest can be pieced together from various sources, including the Bible, extra-biblical sources, historical records, rabbinic literature, archaeological findings, scholarly works, and so on, to give us a complete picture of the ceremony.

To best understand the parallels with the Galilean wedding ceremony and the parallels with the pre-trib rapture, we will need to examine an outline of the sequence of events and how they correspond to what Jesus and others spoke of in Scripture. The Galilean wedding ceremony can be divided into three distinct stages: contract, consummation, and celebration.

 

[Jericho]

Stage 1: Contract (ketubah) (Gen 24:33, Gen 24:51–53, Gen 24:57–58, Gen 29:15–20, Gen 29:27)

1. The betrothal phase began with a contract or covenant called a "ketubah." Marriages were often arranged by the parents, though young men could sometimes suggest their preference. When a man was to marry a girl, a contract would first be prepared. The contract would be presented to the girl and her father at their home. The father’s job was to look out for the best interests of his daughter and negotiate the price for her hand in marriage (Gen 34:11–12, Exo 22:16–17).

a. Christ is the groom, and we, the church, are His bride (2 Co 11:2, Eph 5:23–27). When Jesus established the church, he entered into a contract with all believers.​

b. The price Jesus, the groom, paid for us, the bride, was his own life when He died on the cross to atone for our sins (1 Co 6:20).​

2. Once the price was agreed upon, the contract was signed and sealed, but the woman still had a choice to make. The prospective bridegroom would offer the prospective bride a "cup of joy" filled with wine. It was up to the woman to accept or reject his offer. If she drank from the cup, it would mean that she accepted the man’s proposal, and their betrothal would begin. Once the bride drank from the cup, the groom would say, "You are now consecrated to me by the laws of Moses and of Israel." The bride and groom were now considered husband and wife, though they would not yet consummate their union.

a. Jesus offers us the cup of life, but it’s up to us to drink from it or not. If we accept His offer, we enter into a covenant with Him. We have accepted His proposal and have become a part of His bride. This act plays out every time we partake of communion.​

3. After the marriage contract was established and the bride drank from the cup of wine, the groom would present his bride with special gifts. These gifts were intended to show the groom's appreciation for the bride and help her remember him during their time apart.

a. Jesus left us the gift of the Holy Spirit (Acts 1:4–8, Acts 2:1–4).​

4. The groom would then return to his father’s house for about a year. During that time, it was not uncommon for the bride and groom not to see one another. The groom would use that time to prepare a place for his bride by building a room onto his father’s house and procuring all the furniture and items that would go into it.

a. After Jesus had established his contract with us, He was crucified, resurrected, and returned to His father’s house in heaven to prepare a place for us. “In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also” (Jhn 14:2–3).​

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b. Jesus said, “I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom” (Matt 26:29).​

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c. Jesus said, “A little while, and you will not see Me; and again a little while, and you will see Me, because I go to the Father” (Jhn 16:16). For the last two thousand years, we have been in the betrothal phase, waiting for Jesus to come for us.​

 

[Jericho]

Stage 2: Consummation (chuppah) (Gen 24:64–67, Gen 29:21–26, Gen 29:30)

1. Neither the bride nor groom knew the exact day when the wedding would take place. No one knew except the groom’s father. It was left up to him alone to decide the exact day of the wedding.

a. Jesus said, “But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, but My Father only,” (Mat 24:36).​

2. Since no one knew the exact timing of the marriage, the bride had to always be ready. The exact hour of the marriage would take place in the middle of the night. As such, her lamp, and the lamps of her bridesmaids, had to always be filled with oil and ready.

a. This was highlighted by Jesus in the Parable of the Ten Virgins:​

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i. Mat 25:1 “Then the kingdom of heaven shall be likened to ten virgins who took their lamps and went out to meet the bridegroom.​

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ii. Mat 25:2 “Now five of them were wise, and five were foolish.​

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iii. Mat 25:3 “Those who were foolish took their lamps and took no oil with them,​

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iv. Mat 25:4 “but the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps.​

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v. Mat 25:5 “But while the bridegroom was delayed, they all slumbered and slept.​

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vi. Mat 25:6 “And at midnight a cry was heard: ‘Behold, the bridegroom is coming; go out to meet him!’​

2. When the time was right, the groom’s father would wake his son and say, "Go get your bride; now is the time." The shofar would sound, and the time would finally come for the groom to be reunited with his bride. The groom, along with his best man and male friends, lit their torches and came for the bride like a thief in the night (1 Macc. 9:37–39).

a. The Apostle Paul tells us: “But concerning the times and the seasons, brethren, you have no need that I should write to you. For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night. (1Th 5:1-2)”​

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b. “For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.” (1Th 4:16)​

3. Once reunited, the bride would be lifted off the ground and carried away on a royal wedding litter, called an aperion (Song of Solomon 3:9–10).

a. We are lifted up off the ground to meet Christ in the air, just like a Galilean bride on her wedding day. “Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord" (1TH 4:17).​

4. The bride and groom would return to the father of the groom’s house, where the wedding guests had already assembled. There, the groom and bride would give their nuptials, or nissuin in Hebrew, marking the start of their new life together. The root word "nissuin" (naso) means "lift up" or "home taking."

5. The groom and the bride would seclude themselves in the bridal chamber for seven days known as the "seven days of feasting" or "seven days of the bridal week." After consummating their marriage, the bridegroom would notify a friend through the door (John 3:29), and the wedding feast (shiv'at y'mei mishteh, meaning seven blessings) would begin.

a. Revelation 19:7 states, "Let us be glad and rejoice and give Him glory, for the marriage of the Lamb has come, and His wife has made herself ready." Notice the wording: we are no longer the bride but the wife.​

 

[Jericho]

Stage 3: Celebration (the wedding feast) (Gen 29:27–28, Gen 29:27–28, John 2:1–11)

1. During the wedding feast, the doors were closed, and anyone who had not been invited would be shut out.

a. Jesus highlights this in the Parable of the Wedding Feast (Mat 22:1–14). Those who were invited to the king’s wedding were not willing to come and were found not worthy. The guest who showed up without a wedding garment was tossed out, where there was weeping and gnashing of teeth. This is a picture of those who will be left behind during the tribulation. They had an opportunity to be a part of the wedding feast in heaven, as all are invited, but they were unwilling to come.​

2. After the seven days were complete, the husband and wife would exit the bridal chamber and join the wedding feast for the grand marriage supper.

3. After the wedding feast was complete, the new couple would leave to take up permanent residence in the husband's house.

Conclusion

Notice the parallels with the pre-trib rapture:

1. There is an element of surprise. No one knew when the wedding would take place except the father.

2. There is a sense of imminency. The bride and her bridesmaids had to always be ready because they didn’t know the exact hour of the wedding.

3. There is a seven-day period where the groom and bride are secluded.

a. This corresponds to Daniel’s Seventh Week, where one week represents seven years.​

4. There is a wedding feast during this period that culminates in the grand marriage supper.

a. Those who were invited but did not come were locked out of the celebration in outer darkness, where there was weeping and gnashing of teeth.​

Put all together, it perfectly paints a picture of the pre-tribulation rapture. The wedding feast will take place in heaven while tribulation unfolds on earth over a period of seven years. The first three-and-a-half years are characterized by tribulation, while the later three-and-a-half-years is the Great Tribulation. The purpose then of the rapture is for the final act of consummation between Jesus, the groom, and believers, the bride of Christ. The removal of the bride from the earth corresponds to the Galilean wedding ceremony and is thus a necessary component of God’s plan.

Additional sources: https://coolcalvary.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/references-active-draft-rev-4e280932-24-1.pdf

 

[Randy Kluth]

Put all together, it perfectly paints a picture of the pre-tribulation rapture. The wedding feast will take place in heaven while tribulation unfolds on earth over a period of seven years. The first three-and-a-half years are characterized by tribulation, while the later three-and-a-half-years is the Great Tribulation. The purpose then of the rapture is for the final act of consummation between Jesus, the groom, and believers, the bride of Christ. The removal of the bride from the earth corresponds to the Galilean wedding ceremony and is thus a necessary component of God’s plan.

Put all together, this symbolism may present a perfect picture of the Pretrib Rapture to you, if indeed a Pretrib Rapture even existed. But it doesn't. That's why it's so dangerous to build doctrine on symbolism, in which people can fasten any particular meaning to it they wish to attach.

True biblical doctrine is spelled out, and not hinted at, in the Scriptures by the Holy Spirit. He doesn't make vague suggestions, but says what He wants us to believe. There is absolutely zero Pretrib Doctrine spelled out in the NT Scriptures!! So, all of this symbolism can be attached to Pretrib Doctrine, Midtrib Doctrine, Postrib Doctrine, or any doctrine that one wishes to presuppose and then rationalize.

Let's take just your points here, and see how they fit into Postrib Doctrine, as well.

1. There is an element of surprise. No one knew when the wedding would take place except the father.

The Beast in the book of Revelation reigns without contest for 1260 days. Then the world rises up at Armageddon, which is a mobilization that obviously takes some time. Nobody knows when the trigger will be pulled on this apparently-nuclear war. It has the element of surprise.

We are told in Scriptures that even though Christians do not know the day or the hour, it is the unbelievers who will be surprised--not believers. And the book of Revelation indicates that Christ comes as a thief *at Armageddon!* Rev 16.15

2. There is a sense of imminency. The bride and her bridesmaids had to always be ready because they didn’t know the exact hour of the wedding.

Our readiness for Christ's Coming is said, by Jesus, to be a matter of doing good works, of doing the service of the Kingdom. This is not an any-minute expectation of the Kingdom! We do jobs not expecting an unexpected interruption, but rather, to maintain worthiness. It is *being worthy* that makes us ready--not intellectual alertness with the paranoia we could be caught in a sin! It's more like being a responsible worker than being a watchman expecting the enemy at any moment.

3. There is a seven-day period where the groom and bride are secluded.
a. This corresponds to Daniel’s Seventh Week, where one week represents seven years.

There is no future 70th Week of Daniel to be fulfilled. It took place as only a Half-Week immediately following the 69th Week, which was in the time of Jesus' earthly ministry. And it was to be followed by the fall of Jerusalem, which is what happened in 70 AD. There is no future Week of Daniel!

You might as well say the "seven-day period" refers to 7000 years of human history in which mankind waits to fully enter into immortality with Christ. You can make symbols mean whatever you want them to mean--this is not biblical doctrine!

4. There is a wedding feast during this period that culminates in the grand marriage supper.

All Christians are already betrothed to Christ and married by contract, even though our future immortality has not yet been settled. That will be the wedding feast, when we enjoy immortality and everlasting joy. This is as Postrib as you can get.

The Church cannot be glorified until the time of the resurrection of the saints. And that takes place, according the NT Scriptures, at the 2nd Coming of Christ, which is the last day of the age. It is when we become Christians that our engagement period begins, already finalized as a contract.

a. Those who were invited but did not come were locked out of the celebration in outer darkness, where there was weeping and gnashing of teeth.

It goes without saying that when Christ comes again on the last day, the wicked and false believers will be excluded and sent off into outer darkness, while those who were faithful are invited into the glorious city of Christ.

None of this is necessarily Pretrib. Pretrib applications "do not fit" because there *is not Pretrib Doctrine in the Bible!!* By contrast, Postrib Doctrine is explicitly taught in the Bible, in Dan 7, in the Olivet Discourse, in 2 Thes 2, and in the book of Revelation. No Jewish marriage ceremony suggests otherwise.

 

[Davy]

Per Matthew 25, Christ's Church, believers on Him, are represented by the ten virgins that wait for the Bridegroom (Jesus) to come. The virgins ARE NOT THE BRIDE.

So that right there destroys any idea of using the Jewish wedding ceremony for a Pre-trib Rapture gathering of the Church as Christ's bride.

 

[Jericho]

Per Matthew 25, Christ's Church, believers on Him, are represented by the ten virgins that wait for the Bridegroom (Jesus) to come. The virgins ARE NOT THE BRIDE.

So that right there destroys any idea of using the Jewish wedding ceremony for a Pre-trib Rapture gathering of the Church as Christ's bride.

Did you actually read what I wrote? No where did I claim the virgins are the bride of Christ. I mentioned it because it was the custom of the day and highlights that Jesus will come like a thief in the night.

 

[Jericho]

Put all together, this symbolism may present a perfect picture of the Pretrib Rapture to you, if indeed a Pretrib Rapture even existed. But it doesn't. That's why it's so dangerous to build doctrine on symbolism, in which people can fasten any particular meaning to it they wish to attach.

If you haven’t noticed, the Bible is filled with symbolism, and it is indeed possible to use symbolism to convey deeper theological truths from which to build doctrines. The first-century people whom Jesus preached to would not have needed to guess what the symbolism meant; they wouldn’t have picked up on it instantly. It’s no coincidence that so many of Jesus parables have to do with weddings, and they would have understood what he was trying to convey. It’s only because we are 2000 years removed from that culture that so much of that symbolism has been forgotten.

The Beast in the book of Revelation reigns without contest for 1260 days. Then the world rises up at Armageddon, which is a mobilization that obviously takes some time. Nobody knows when the trigger will be pulled on this apparently-nuclear war. It has the element of surprise.

The element of surprise is lost in the post-trib rapture. Knowing when the abomination of desolation occurs, it would be easy to calculate the end of the Great Tribulation and, subsequently, the rapture. Jesus said:

Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Our readiness for Christ's Coming is said, by Jesus, to be a matter of doing good works, of doing the service of the Kingdom. This is not an any-minute expectation of the Kingdom! We do jobs not expecting an unexpected interruption, but rather, to maintain worthiness. It is *being worthy* that makes us ready--not intellectual alertness with the paranoia we could be caught in a sin! It's more like being a responsible worker than being a watchman expecting the enemy at any moment.

All that is well and good, but it doesn’t mean anything within the context of the rapture. Imminency entails a certain degree of surprise. Which, as I have previously pointed out, is missing from the post-trib rapture.

There is no future 70th Week of Daniel to be fulfilled. It took place as only a Half-Week immediately following the 69th Week, which was in the time of Jesus' earthly ministry. And it was to be followed by the fall of Jerusalem, which is what happened in 70 AD. There is no future Week of Daniel!

From the time the temple was built until the Messiah was cut off (i.e., crucified), it was seven weeks and sixty-two weeks (483 years). That leaves 7 years. The objectives of the seventy weeks were to: finish the transgression; make an end of sins; make reconciliation for iniquity; bring in everlasting righteousness; seal up vision and prophecy; and anoint the Most Holy (Dan 9:24). None of those objectives have been fully realized yet.

All Christians are already betrothed to Christ and married by contract, even though our future immortality has not yet been settled. That will be the wedding feast, when we enjoy immortality and everlasting joy. This is as Postrib as you can get.

You can only make these post-trib if you ignore the sequence of events in the wedding ceremony. The wedding feast is happening WHILE the husband and wife are secluded for seven days. There is no way you can make that fit the post-trib rapture. Those who were invited but did not attend were shut out. The Parable of the Wedding Feast alludes to what it will be like on earth during the tribulation, though it could also allude to their eternal punishment.

 

[Randy Kluth]

If you haven’t noticed, the Bible is filled with symbolism, and it is indeed possible to use symbolism to convey deeper theological truths from which to build doctrines

So I just saw a symbolic cloud in the sky, which tells me that theology cannot be based on subjective readings. ;) What biblical doctrines do you believe in (besides Pretrib) that are based purely on subjective readings and symbolism? You're setting yourself up for some serious error. The cults do this.

. The first-century people whom Jesus preached to would not have needed to guess what the symbolism meant; they wouldn’t have picked up on it instantly. It’s no coincidence that so many of Jesus parables have to do with weddings, and they would have understood what he was trying to convey. It’s only because we are 2000 years removed from that culture that so much of that symbolism has been forgotten.

If they picked up on the symbolic meaning of Jewish weddings why wasn't Pretrib Doctrine preached in the Early Church? Keep in mind that teaching Christ is returning soon and will come at an unpredictable date is not synonymous with Imminency Teaching! Christ is still coming soon to this very day, but we don't have to expect he could come today! That is Imminency Teaching, which has not been the meaning of the nearness of Christ's Coming for most of Christian history.

The element of surprise is lost in the post-trib rapture. Knowing when the abomination of desolation occurs, it would be easy to calculate the end of the Great Tribulation and, subsequently, the rapture.

The Roman Army was the Abomination of Desolation 66-70 AD, who desolated the Temple and were abominable pagans. That was to happen at the end of the 70 Weeks. The 70th Week was fulfilled when Temple offerings ended. And that happened when Christ was killed.

I already explained that the reign of Antichrist gives us an approximate time period in which Christ will come. We were told we can't know the day and the hour, but we can know the season. We just are not supposed to get all worked up about predicting the times and the seasons before they actually come to fulfillment.

From the time the temple was built until the Messiah was cut off (i.e., crucified), it was seven weeks and sixty-two weeks (483 years). That leaves 7 years.

No it doesn't. The 70th Week is terminated in the middle of the Week. And that ended the 70 Weeks prophecy. The only thing remaining in the prophecy was the destruction of Jerusalem, which would immediately follow. That's why Jesus could say it would happen in "this generation." He was speaking of his own generation, and it did take place approx. 40 years after he said this.

The objectives of the seventy weeks were to: finish the transgression; make an end of sins; make reconciliation for iniquity; bring in everlasting righteousness; seal up vision and prophecy; and anoint the Most Holy (Dan 9:24). None of those objectives have been fully realized yet.

Actually they were all fulfilled in Christ's earthly ministry. Israel's transgression reached its apex with their rejection of Messiah. Their sins were disposed of by God sending the Jewish People into the Diaspora, out of their land. Jesus made atonement and became the everlasting righteousness for those who put their faith in him. He anointed the Most Holy by bringing to God in heaven his own blood of atonement. His perfection was what allowed him to anoint this altar of redemption.

You can only make these post-trib if you ignore the sequence of events in the wedding ceremony.

I already showed you that the wedding ceremony can be interpreted as you please. There is no doctrine there.

The wedding feast is happening WHILE the husband and wife are secluded for seven days. There is no way you can make that fit the post-trib rapture.

Parables are not designed to be "fit into theology!" They make a point illustrating spiritual and moral truth. They are not designed to give an itinerary of events in the future. "7 Days" does *not* mean "7 Years!"

Those who were invited but did not attend were shut out. The Parable of the Wedding Feast alludes to what it will be like on earth during the tribulation, though it could also allude to their eternal punishment.

No it doesn't. You are assuming everything you've failed to prove. You begin with your theory and then fit it into elements of a story. Nobody in the Early Church apparently got it, until you came along.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

The ancient Galilean wedding ceremony is the model for the rapture, specifically the pre-trib rapture. When the Scriptures are compared to the Galilean wedding ceremony, it explains the purpose of the rapture, why the church won’t go through the tribulation, and puts certain biblical passages into proper context. There are very few who understand the significance of the Galilean wedding ceremony, and even fewer who understand the parallels with the pre-trib rapture. That significance, however, would not have been lost on Jesus or His disciples, all of whom were Galilean except for Judas. Nor would it have been lost on the Galileans of the first century, whom Jesus spent most of His time around.

It may be no coincidence that Jesus’ first recorded miracle was turning water into wine at a Galilean wedding. It was as if He was trying to draw attention to the wedding for reasons that will soon become apparent. It’s been said that Jesus taught about the resurrection but not the rapture. Yet, when the words and actions of Jesus are compared with the Galilean wedding ceremony, a different picture emerges. Before we get to that picture, we must first understand the customs and culture that shaped the Galileans in Jesus’ day.

Galilee was originally settled by the tribes of Naphthali and Dan. After the Assyrian invasion in the eighth century BC, the northern ten tribes of Israel were dispersed throughout the vast Assyrian empire. In their place, Assyria repopulated the region with people from all the nations they conquered. In fact, the Book of Isaiah refers to the region as g'lil ha-goyím, meaning 'Galilee of the Nations' or 'Galilee of the Gentiles' (Isaiah 9:1).

Perhaps it was due to this foreign influence that the inhabitants of Galilee developed their own unique customs, traditions, and even speech that differed from the Jews in Judea. This is what made the Galilean wedding ceremony unique. Rabbi Judah (135–217 AD) said, “In Judea they made inquiry concerning the bridegroom and bride three days before the wedding: but in Galilee they did not so. In Judea they allowed the bridegroom and bride private company one hour before the wedding; but they did not so in Galilee. It was a custom in Judea that the married persons should have two friends, one of the family of the bridegroom, and the other of the family of the bride: but it was not so in Galilee. In Judea those friends slept in the same place where the bridegroom and bride slept: but in Galilee it was not so."

One objection may be: how do we know what an ancient Galilean wedding was like? That’s a fair question, however, we do know quite a bit about what a typical Jewish wedding was like in antiquity. And while there were variations between a Jewish wedding in Judea and a Jewish wedding in Galilee, there is enough overlap to give us a pretty good idea of what was involved. The rest can be pieced together from various sources, including the Bible, extra-biblical sources, historical records, rabbinic literature, archaeological findings, scholarly works, and so on, to give us a complete picture of the ceremony.

To best understand the parallels with the Galilean wedding ceremony and the parallels with the pre-trib rapture, we will need to examine an outline of the sequence of events and how they correspond to what Jesus and others spoke of in Scripture. The Galilean wedding ceremony can be divided into three distinct stages: contract, consummation, and celebration.

Show me the scriptures which state that the timing of the rapture in relation to the tribulation can be determined by looking at what happens during a Galilean wedding ceremony so that I can know you're not just making all this up. No need to quote the scriptures, just give me the chapters and verses which tell us this.

I am sure that you will not find any such scriptures. If the pre-trib rapture can't be explained in any other way than this extremely convoluted way that you have come up with here in this thread then that says a lot about the pre-trib rapture theory.

 

[Davy]

Did you actually read what I wrote? No where did I claim the virgins are the bride of Christ. I mentioned it because it was the custom of the day and highlights that Jesus will come like a thief in the night.

You are not the first one to push the Jewish wedding as a model for a false pre-trib rapture. So I don't need to read everything you wrote about it. On a much more simple note, Lord Jesus gave us the time of His coming and gathering of His Church in the Matthew 24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27 Scripture, which is AFTER... the tribulation. And Apostle Paul taught the same order in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17.

And that's the problem with the deceived on men's false pre-trib rapture theory; they heed men more than the actual Word of God.

 

[Jericho]

Show me the scriptures which state that the timing of the rapture in relation to the tribulation can be determined by looking at what happens during a Galilean wedding ceremony so that I can know you're not just making all this up. No need to quote the scriptures, just give me the chapters and verses which tell us this.

Good luck finding any scripture that explicitly spells out the timing of the rapture. If it did, we wouldn't have so many debates about it. I've laid everything out in a nice outline, complete with plenty of scripture references. If that's not enough, then I don't know what to tell you.

I am sure that you will not find any such scriptures. If the pre-trib rapture can't be explained in any other way than this extremely convoluted way that you have come up with here in this thread then that says a lot about the pre-trib rapture theory.

How is it convulated? I'm just comparing the wedding ceremony with scripture. The 1st century Jews would have easily picked up on what Jesus was trying to convey.

 

[Jericho]

So I don't need to read everything you wrote about it.

That's your problem then. You are so closed-minded that you don't even want to consider the possibility you might be wrong. There's really no point in continuing this discussion with you.

 

[Davy]

That's your problem then. You are so closed-minded that you don't even want to consider the possibility you might be wrong. There's really no point in continuing this discussion with you.

You need to learn the elementary method of quoting someone, to not cut slices out of what they said and create some 'other' context with it, which actually is libel in the legal world. You should included the sentence I said prior that you failed to quote...

I had said:
"You are not the first one to push the Jewish wedding as a model for a false pre-trib rapture. So I don't need to read everything you wrote about it."

But you only quoted that latter above sentence.

 

[Jericho]

So I just saw a symbolic cloud in the sky, which tells me that theology cannot be based on subjective readings

Does not the Bible contain symbolism? Revelation is full of it. Regardless, it relies far less on symbolism than you suggest. It merely contrasts and compares the historical Galilean wedding ceremony against scripture, and puts those scriptures into proper context. That's it.

If they picked up on the symbolic meaning of Jewish weddings why wasn't Pretrib Doctrine preached in the Early Church?

Did the early Church have a mid, post, or pre-wrath doctrine either? No, they didn't have any codified rapture doctrine. I'm sure you can find elements from every rapture position in early Christian writings, but elements don't make a doctrine. Doctrines take time to establish. The concept of the trinity didn't become a doctrine until roughly 300 years after the church was established. I don't presume the early Church had it all figured out, but they would have understood the parallels between the wedding ceremony as it relates to Jesus being the groom and we, the church, being the bride.

The Roman Army was the Abomination of Desolation 66-70 AD, who desolated the Temple and were abominable pagans. That was to happen at the end of the 70 Weeks. The 70th Week was fulfilled when Temple offerings ended. And that happened when Christ was killed.

The Antichrist causes the Abomination of Desolation, not the Roman army. Dan 9:27 speaks of a singular person: "Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week; But in the middle of the week He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering." I believe that when Antiochus IV Epiphanes sacrificed a pig in the Jewish temple in 167 BC, he was a foreshadow of the Antichrist, but this is a whole other debate.

No it doesn't. The 70th Week is terminated in the middle of the Week. And that ended the 70 Weeks prophecy.

I suppose you think the Book of Revelation has already happened or are you just picking and chosing which is past and which is future?

Actually they were all fulfilled in Christ's earthly ministry. Israel's transgression reached its apex with their rejection of Messiah. Their sins were disposed of by God sending the Jewish People into the Diaspora, out of their land. Jesus made atonement and became the everlasting righteousness for those who put their faith in him. He anointed the Most Holy by bringing to God in heaven his own blood of atonement. His perfection was what allowed him to anoint this altar of redemption.

I disagree. There has been no end to sins, reconcilation, or everlasting righteousness that Dan 9:24 talks about. There is a finality which has not yet been achieved.

I already showed you that the wedding ceremony can be interpreted as you please. There is no doctrine there.

I didn't say it was a doctrine. And how am I interpreting it as I please? I think it's the other way around. You tried to make the post-trib fit with the wedding ceremony and it just doesn't jive. It's like putting a square peg in a round hole.

Parables are not designed to be "fit into theology!" They make a point illustrating spiritual and moral truth. They are not designed to give an itinerary of events in the future. "7 Days" does *not* mean "7 Years!"

The parables that Jesus spoke of that involved some reference to weddings (and there are several) are more than just parables; they were references to the actual wedding customs of that day. The parable of the ten virgins is one example. The virgins (bridemaids) literally had to keep their lamps full because they didn't know the exact hour when a wedding would take place. The concept of days equaling years is found in Numbers 14:34, Ezekiel 4:4-6, and specifically Daniel 9:24–27.

 

[Jericho]

You need to learn the elementary method of quoting someone, to not cut slices out of what they said and create some 'other' context with it, which actually is libel in the legal world. You should included the sentence I said prior that you failed to quote...

I had said:
"You are not the first one to push the Jewish wedding as a model for a false pre-trib rapture. So I don't need to read everything you wrote about it."

But you only quoted that latter above sentence.

Now your just nit picking. If you don't have something of subtance to post then move along to another post.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Good luck finding any scripture that explicitly spells out the timing of the rapture.

You're missing the point. There is no explicit Bible doctrine that places the Rapture of the Church *before* the Reign of Antichrist! Yes, he will come soon. And yes, we don't know the day or the hour. But absolutely, we are told *doctrinally* that Antichrist comes not *before* the rise of Antichrist, but *after* the revelation of Antichrist, specifically *at* the destruction of Antichrist.

2 Thes 2.3 Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction.
....8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of his mouth and destroy by the splendor of his coming.

This is all based on the prophecy of the Little Horn in Dan 7, who is defeated at the coming of the Son of Man to establish God's Kingdom on earth.

Dan 7.11 “Then I continued to watch because of the boastful words the horn was speaking. I kept looking until the beast was slain and its body destroyed and thrown into the blazing fire...13 “In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man, coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence. 14 He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all nations and peoples of every language worshiped him."

Now, you may want to confuse this by jumping over to vs. 7 and arguing over who the "Restrainer" is, because that's what you guys do--you divert away from explicit Biblical doctrine by asking other, unrelated questions to muddy the picture. Then you can slip in your beliefs under the guise of private "revelation," using symbolic passages that can be manipulated any way you please.

 

[MA2444]

You are not the first one to push the Jewish wedding as a model for a false pre-trib rapture. So I don't need to read everything you wrote about it.

Isn't that sort of a slightly ridiculous statement to make? It says you're not even willing to give a close enough look at the material presented and that the best we get from you you is, Uh-uhh...? Is it impossible that you were ever wrong? Are you even able to learn anything new?

Doesn't the position that you have taken go against your very own scriptures that you live by? By that of course I mean:

Proverbs 18:13
13 He that answereth a matter before he heareth it, it is folly and shame unto him..../KJV

Did you read it? Of course I didnt read it, you said. How will you recocile this scripture to yourself and hold the attitude that you do about the possibility of a pre trib rapture.

I subjectively read the scriptures myself and I admit I did not have it all figured out, but the direction that Jerico has taken in the OP's was the same direction that I was already headed....and then! After I was headed that way with my study of it, I saw a sermon onine where a very good teaching Pastor went completely through this entire topic and he explained everything and gave all the scriptures and I took real good notes! (for once, lol).

Then Jehrico started this thread so it drew my attention to it. I thought wow this is going to be a great thread! (and I find you guys here trying to derail and debunk this thread. And you had the gall to actually say, I dont need t read the material blah blah blah preterist crap...) If you guys dont want to beieve it, that's fine, you make your own choices. But if you want to participate in the thread, is it too much to ask for you to make an intelligent academically thought out statements instead of blahblahblah crap and trash talk..? Surely this is a Folly and a Shame unto YOU. Have some class man, geez. So how many scriptures do you want? I have them listed (somewhere!). But, be a big boy about it.

 

[MA2444]

The ancient Galilean wedding ceremony is the model for the rapture, specifically the pre-trib rapture. When the Scriptures are compared to the Galilean wedding ceremony, it explains the purpose of the rapture, why the church won’t go through the tribulation, and puts certain biblical passages into proper context. There are very few who understand the significance of the Galilean wedding ceremony, and even fewer who understand the parallels with the pre-trib rapture. That significance, however, would not have been lost on Jesus or His disciples, all of whom were Galilean except for Judas. Nor would it have been lost on the Galileans of the first century, whom Jesus spent most of His time around.

It may be no coincidence that Jesus’ first recorded miracle was turning water into wine at a Galilean wedding. It was as if He was trying to draw attention to the wedding for reasons that will soon become apparent. It’s been said that Jesus taught about the resurrection but not the rapture. Yet, when the words and actions of Jesus are compared with the Galilean wedding ceremony, a different picture emerges. Before we get to that picture, we must first understand the customs and culture that shaped the Galileans in Jesus’ day.

Galilee was originally settled by the tribes of Naphthali and Dan. After the Assyrian invasion in the eighth century BC, the northern ten tribes of Israel were dispersed throughout the vast Assyrian empire. In their place, Assyria repopulated the region with people from all the nations they conquered. In fact, the Book of Isaiah refers to the region as g'lil ha-goyím, meaning 'Galilee of the Nations' or 'Galilee of the Gentiles' (Isaiah 9:1).

Perhaps it was due to this foreign influence that the inhabitants of Galilee developed their own unique customs, traditions, and even speech that differed from the Jews in Judea. This is what made the Galilean wedding ceremony unique. Rabbi Judah (135–217 AD) said, “In Judea they made inquiry concerning the bridegroom and bride three days before the wedding: but in Galilee they did not so. In Judea they allowed the bridegroom and bride private company one hour before the wedding; but they did not so in Galilee. It was a custom in Judea that the married persons should have two friends, one of the family of the bridegroom, and the other of the family of the bride: but it was not so in Galilee. In Judea those friends slept in the same place where the bridegroom and bride slept: but in Galilee it was not so."

One objection may be: how do we know what an ancient Galilean wedding was like? That’s a fair question, however, we do know quite a bit about what a typical Jewish wedding was like in antiquity. And while there were variations between a Jewish wedding in Judea and a Jewish wedding in Galilee, there is enough overlap to give us a pretty good idea of what was involved. The rest can be pieced together from various sources, including the Bible, extra-biblical sources, historical records, rabbinic literature, archaeological findings, scholarly works, and so on, to give us a complete picture of the ceremony.

To best understand the parallels with the Galilean wedding ceremony and the parallels with the pre-trib rapture, we will need to examine an outline of the sequence of events and how they correspond to what Jesus and others spoke of in Scripture. The Galilean wedding ceremony can be divided into three distinct stages: contract, consummation, and celebration.

Brother, I believe that you have hit the nail on the head. That is exactly how I learned it, except you filled me in on a couple new points! That is encouraging to me that, I cant disagree with anything you posted about it. That there is evidence that the Holy Spirit (that will lead us into All truth) is on the job and teaching the same truths to different people!

The rapture is pretrib. Jesus Loves His Bride. Jesus would not subject His Bride to the 70th week of Daniel, these things are promised in scripture. The great tribulation is all about Israel even though it affects everyone on earth.

Jesus wil show up for His Bride and say, hey honey we're going to dinner after we stop by a gang fight and I let them beat the crap out of you....!! No. He comes by surprise just like in the Hebrew/Galliian wedding. Did he not say, I go to prepare a place for you? I will return so be ready because I come when you think not!

I just looked out the window Brother and it's not today I think. Not a cloud in the sky. (The Angels said, He will come in the clouds)...and it's not a cloud in the sky today. But I'm with you on this, Brother! I get it. I agree.

Apparently one of the (very) few,.

 

[Jude Thaddeus]

All the theologians, scripture scholars, bishops, saints and reformers were incapable of interpreting God's word....until....
...John Nelson Darby came along. He broke off from the Plymouth Brethren over theological disputes. Founder of the Exclusive Brethren sect, Darby invented pre-tribulation rapture theology in 1830 that was totally foreign to all of Christianity.

His theory was further popularized in the United States in the early 20th century by the wide circulation of the Scofield Reference Bible. The footnotes were made doctrine by American dispensationists.

...fast forward to 1970...

The biggest-selling work of non-fiction (other than the Bible) since 1970 is dispensationalist Hal Lindsey’s The Late Great Planet Earth (Bantam, 1970), which sold more than 40 million copies and established the blueprint for a number of other popular, self-described “Bible prophecy” experts (including Tim LaHaye, creator and coauthor of the Left Behind series)

LaHaye’s first work of “Bible prophecy” was The Beginning of the End (Tyndale, 1972), essentially a carbon copy of Lindsey’s mega-seller. In the years that followed, Lindsey and LaHaye, along with authors such as Salem Kirban, David Wilkinson, Dave Hunt, Grant Jeffrey, John Walvoord, and others, produced a string of best-selling books warning of the rapidly approaching pretribulation Rapture, the Antichrist, and the tribulation.

One message of LaHaye’s that comes across clearly in books such as Are We Living in the End Times?, Rapture Under Attack, and Revelation Unveiled is that the Catholic Church is apostate, Catholicism is “Babylonian mysticism” and an “idolatrous religion,” and Catholics worship Mary, knowing little about the real Jesus Christ. It’s difficult to overstate the dislike — even hatred — LaHaye has for the Catholic Church or to exaggerate the ridiculous character of his attacks. He condemns the use of candles in Catholic churches, insists there’s hardly any difference between Hinduism and Catholicism, and emphatically declares that the Catholic Church killed at least 40 million people during the “dark ages.”

When I asked LaHaye, via e-mail, why he never refers to Catholic sources or official documents in his writings, he replied:

Because I think that for centuries the Catholic Church has presented church history in a manner protective of “Mother church.” . . . I have seen more concern on the part of your church for Hindus, Buddhists, and other pagan religions than they do [sic] for those who love Jesus Christ as He is presented in the Bible and are committed to making Him known to the lost so they will not be Left Behind.

In other words, the Catholic Church is simply wrong and doesn’t deserve a fair hearing. LaHaye has not only revealed himself to be an anti-Catholic polemicist but a theologian with a seriously skewed view of God’s salvific work. In a newspaper interview, LaHaye said, “We’ve [himself and Jenkins] created a series of books about the greatest cosmic event that will happen in the history of the world.” What is that “greatest cosmic event”? The Incarnation? The Cross? The Resurrection? No, the Rapture — a modern, man-made belief based on a distorted Christology and an anemic ecclesiology.

The Rapture

Discover Catholic teachings on the Rapture. Pre, Mid, or Post? Find clarity on the 'end times'. Here's what the Church teaches about the apocalypse."

www.catholic.com

It's ironic; all this talk about "end time persecution" and/or "great tribulation" while guys like Lahaye inflict it on Catholics.