TULIP an open discussion

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

CadyandZoe

Well-Known Member
May 17, 2020
7,707
2,630
113
Phoenix
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
That is a good understanding, since Christ sacrifice redeems us (believers) from our sins purchasing us for God as from a marketplace with his blood.
I agree.
Christ is our substitute; in that, he was sacrificed as payment to sins - sins that kept us (sinners who believe) captive to death and separation from God.
No. You are taking the redemption metaphor too far in your search for a buyer and a seller. The exchange wasn't a "purchase" as you describe it. The exchange comes in the form of a propitiatory offering. Jesus “redeems” us from condemnation by propitiating God’s wrath toward us (and our sinfulness): God’s wrath toward us is replaced with God’s delight toward Jesus, his Son; at the time of our judgment, God’s delight toward his Son overshadows his wrath toward us

Remember, since the cross, Jesus has been given all authority, including forgiving our sins. The cross is the means to forgive our sins but not as a payment of our moral debt, but as the means for Christ to enter the heavenly temple and make our appeal to God in person.


If redemption is payment, then why didn't it purchase anything?
When a man frees a slave from the slave market, he isn't paying for the slave, he is paying for his release.
What did Christ's redemption pay for if not for sin to bring sinners who believe to God?
Christ's redemption paid for the release of his followers from sin.
 

amigo de christo

Well-Known Member
Sep 12, 2020
29,953
50,761
113
53
San angelo
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I agree.

No. You are taking the redemption metaphor too far in your search for a buyer and a seller. The exchange wasn't a "purchase" as you describe it. The exchange comes in the form of a propitiatory offering. Jesus “redeems” us from condemnation by propitiating God’s wrath toward us (and our sinfulness): God’s wrath toward us is replaced with God’s delight toward Jesus, his Son; at the time of our judgment, God’s delight toward his Son overshadows his wrath toward us

Remember, since the cross, Jesus has been given all authority, including forgiving our sins. The cross is the means to forgive our sins but not as a payment of our moral debt, but as the means for Christ to enter the heavenly temple and make our appeal to God in person.



When a man frees a slave from the slave market, he isn't paying for the slave, he is paying for his release.

Christ's redemption paid for the release of his followers from sin.
Christ did come to free us from sin . in that you said truly . and yet
many seem to try and make him a minstir of sin . WHICH HE AINT .
so allow me some parting words , if the jesus one follows
holds the wrong rainbow , or the love of money or honors and accepts a sin , IT AINT JESUS THE CHRIST
they follow , know or love . ITS ANOTHER jesus and that one i wont captilize cause its the devil using that name
to simply feed the fleshly desires of men to FOLLOW satan and NOT GOD .NOT HIS CHRIST , NOT HIS SPIRIT
 
  • Like
Reactions: Marvelloustime

amigo de christo

Well-Known Member
Sep 12, 2020
29,953
50,761
113
53
San angelo
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
we were not saved TO SIN
but saved rather from sin .
JESUS was not the servant of sin
NOR are we too be the servant of sin .
WHO WE SERVE IS WHOSE WE ARE . that is a fact folks .
 
  • Like
Reactions: Marvelloustime

CadyandZoe

Well-Known Member
May 17, 2020
7,707
2,630
113
Phoenix
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Did he create the movie? If so, why should he be angry for creating the characters the way he did?
Good question, but it does happen. Authors get emotionally involved in the stories they write.

J. K. Rowling, the brilliant mind behind the Harry Potter series, once shared a revealing insight. She admitted that she had wept over the death of a character she had crafted. (Perhaps it was Remus Lupin, my memory is hazy.) Her husband, upon hearing her distress, asked about the cause. She confessed that she had just written about the death of one of her characters. His response was simple, 'If it upsets you, change it.' But she replied, 'I can't change it because the story, in its own way, dictates it.'

Sometimes, writers keep the story as it is even though they have a personal, emotional reaction to it.
 

Rockerduck

Well-Known Member
Nov 7, 2022
2,554
2,179
113
70
Marietta, Georgia.
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Our sins were forgiven and removed from us. It was a payment for our sin debt. to Satan. Jesus redeemed us from the world.

Colossians 2:13-14 - You were dead because of your sins and because your sinful nature was not yet cut away. Then God made you alive with Christ, for he forgave all our sins. 14 He canceled the record of the charges against us and took it away by nailing it to the cross.

Galatians 2:20 - I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ritajanice

amigo de christo

Well-Known Member
Sep 12, 2020
29,953
50,761
113
53
San angelo
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Good question, but it does happen. Authors get emotionally involved in the stories they write.

J. K. Rowling, the brilliant mind behind the Harry Potter series, once shared a revealing insight. She admitted that she had wept over the death of a character she had crafted. (Perhaps it was Remus Lupin, my memory is hazy.) Her husband, upon hearing her distress, asked about the cause. She confessed that she had just written about the death of one of her characters. His response was simple, 'If it upsets you, change it.' But she replied, 'I can't change it because the story, in its own way, dictates it.'

Sometimes, writers keep the story as it is even though they have a personal, emotional reaction to it.
men and women can create stories and yes they can weep over what they even write
and yet ...........
and yet they weep not over the lost souls
for they know not GOD or HIS CHRIST .
too many are being entertained by the talents of great people
and yet will not take heed to THE GOD WHO CREATED ALL .
oh its bible time all right . Its time we get busy preaching that JESUS and that gospel
and them teachings to all that has breath .
Cause satan is the greatest entertainer and deciever to ever have been
and he and his ministirs are doing some big time entertainement unto the lost
to keep them entertained in a lie and far from THE TRUTH which could have saved them .
 
  • Like
Reactions: Marvelloustime

setst777

Member
Mar 24, 2023
238
58
28
67
Oak Creek
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Agreed. Nonetheless, God didn't need the cross to forgive anyone. Paul argues that the cross demonstrated God's righteousness. It was not the means to forgiveness. God was in Christ reconciling the world to himself. For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son, that whoever believes in HIM shall have eternal life.

If Christ's sacrifice was not necessary to forgive anyone, then why did God have His Son sacrificed for our sins?

Matthew 26:28 for this is my blood of the new covenant, which is poured out for many for the remission/forgiveness [Gk: aphesis] of sins.

Strong's Concordance: #895 aphesis
aphesis:
dismissal, release, pardon, complete forgiveness

Hebrews 9:26-28 (WEB) But now once at the end of the ages, he has been revealed to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

Hebrews 13:11-12 (WEB) 11 For the bodies of those animals, whose blood is brought into the holy place by the high priest as an offering for sin, are burned outside of the camp. [Leviticus 16:27] 12 Therefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people through his own blood, suffered outside of the gate.

Hebrews 9:22 (WEB) without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.

1 John 1:7 (WEB) But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ, his Son, cleanses us from all sin.

In other words, if someone is seeking eternal life, they must deal with Jesus Christ. God has granted Him the authority to forgive sins.

Matthew 9:5-7
Which is easier, to say, ‘Your sins are forgiven,’ or to say, ‘Get up, and walk’? But so that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins”—then He *said to the paralytic, “Get up, pick up your bed and go home.” And he got up and went home.

The son of man forgives our sins. How does this happen? Jesus entered the Heavenly temple and he intercedes for the saints. He is our high priest. And The Father grants the Son's request because the Father's delight toward Jesus overshadows his wrath toward us.

Lord Jesus came to shed his blood for our sins, so that, sins can be forgiven. That is why Lord Jesus was given authority to forgive sins.

Matthew 26:28 for this is my blood of the new covenant, which is poured out for many for the remission/forgiveness [Gk: aphesis] of sins.

Before Lord Jesus came to sacrifice himself for our sins, God left the sins, in past times, go unpunished.

Romans 3:25 God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement, through the shedding of his blood — to be received by faith. He did this to demonstrate his righteousness, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished

The cross is the means to our propitiation, not the means to satisfy justice.

The cross is the means to propitiation (atonement) for believers because Christ shed blood satisfied God's justice.

Romans 5:9 (WEB) 9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we will be saved from God’s wrath through him.

Romans 3:25 God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement, through the shedding of his blood — to be received by faith

Hebrews 2:17 (WEB) 17 Therefore he was obligated in all things to be made like his brothers, that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make atonement for the sins of the people.

According to the teaching of some denominations, Jesus' death was a necessary act to satisfy God's justice.

That is what the Scriptures teach.

Romans 5:9 (WEB) 9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we will be saved from God’s wrath through him.

Romans 3:23-24 (WEB)
23 for all have sinned, and fall short of the glory of God;
24 being justified freely by his grace
through [Greek: dia] the redemption [payment] that is in Christ Jesus

Strong's Concordance #1223
dia
: through, on account of, because of

Titus 2:14 (WEB) 14 who gave himself for us [believers], that he might redeem (make payment for) us from all iniquity, and purify for himself a people for his own possession, zealous for good works.

Jesus' death satisfied God's by paying the penalty for human sin. It views sin as a debt owed to God, and Christ's sacrifice serves as the payment to settle that debt.

That is what the Scriptures teach.

Before Christ came, all mankind was legally indebted to the Law of God for every sin committed, and Lord Jesus shed his blood to cancel the charge of our legal indebtedness so we can now be forgiven.

Colossians 2:13-14 (WEB) 13 When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, 14 having canceled the charge of our legal indebtedness, which stood against us and condemned us; he has taken it away, nailing it to the cross.

Lord Jesus redeems all sinners who repent and believe from all iniquity by His shed blood on the cross.
All sinners who repent and believe may be forgiven of all sins committed against God's Law because of that redemption by Christ.

Matthew 26:28 for this is my blood of the new covenant, which is poured out for many for the remission/forgiveness [Gk: aphesis] of sins.

Hebrews 9:26-28 (WEB) But now once at the end of the ages, he has been revealed to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

Hebrews 9:22 (WEB) without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.

That is the simple Gospel Message that many cannot grasp.

John 3:16 (WEB) 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

Matthew 26:28 for this is my blood of the new covenant, which is poured out for many for the remission/forgiveness [Gk: aphesis] of sins.

Yes, redemption, not justice.

Christ's blood redeemed believers to satisfy God's justice and save us from His wrath.

Romans 5:9 (WEB) 9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we will be saved from God’s wrath through him.

Romans 3:23-24 (WEB)
23 for all have sinned, and fall short of the glory of God;
24 being justified freely by his grace
through [Greek: dia] the redemption that is in Christ Jesus

Strong's Concordance #1223
dia
: through, on account of, because of

Your statement is contradictory. Either God accepted payment for our sins or he forgave our sins. It can't be both.

No contradiction, except in your own mind.

Matthew 26:28 for this is my blood of the new covenant, which is poured out for many for the remission/forgiveness [Gk: aphesis] of sins.

Hebrews 9:22 (WEB) without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.

Titus 2:14 (WEB) 14 who gave himself for us [believers], that he might redeem (pay for) us from all iniquity, and purify for himself a people for his own possession, zealous for good works.

Acts 20:28 (WEB) the assembly [believers] of the Lord and God which he purchased with his own blood.

Romans 5:9 (WEB) 9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we will be saved from God’s wrath through him.
 
Last edited:

Ritajanice

Born-Again
Mar 9, 2023
13,207
7,528
113
United Kingdom
Faith
Christian
Country
United Kingdom
You still misunderstand . i never once said ALL WE NEED DO is JUST read the bible .
I just said TIME TO READ IT .
and if i was predistend to preach the word then why are so many resisting this .
think on that . I am simply remidning us to READ the words and be refreshed in that bible .
WHY is it , what is it about the bible that bothers you , why is it my message to read it
does bother you . Some have told me the same thing in times past.
HEY AMIGO , READ YOUR BIBLE . AND I JUST JOYED AND REJOICED WHEN THEY DID .
EVEN THOUGH , by grace I DO Read it . I DIDNT come after them and tell them to SHUT UP
and stop reminding me . something in the scrips does bother you rita .
I bet you dont have peace just reading it as a whole anymore . rather something in it is bothering you
We are to shine the light , we are to let people see the fruit and work of GOD amongst us
EVEN THE SCRIPS says that . SO what is your problem with these reminders i do give .
HECK if you or anyone told me to BE reading my bible daily , You wont see me saying , HOW dare thee
I do read it . NOPE i would faint with joy .
Because imo, you reminders to me aren’t from God...their from you...

Leave me alone with your reminders and please stop ramming them down my throat, that is NOT of God, he would NEVER do that.

You would faint with joy...good....I’m NOT you....

Tell me is the seed that was planted into your heart/ spirit Alive and Active....or does it just keep telling you to get stuck in that Bible all of the time?

Do you honestly believe that being Born Of The Spirit...is all about Bible reading and Bible thumping?
 
Last edited:

Marvelloustime

Well-Known Member
Sep 15, 2020
6,558
11,608
113
Heaven bound
Faith
Christian
Country
United Kingdom
You still misunderstand . i never once said ALL WE NEED DO is JUST read the bible .
I just said TIME TO READ IT .
and if i was predistend to preach the word then why are so many resisting this .
think on that . I am simply remidning us to READ the words and be refreshed in that bible .
WHY is it , what is it about the bible that bothers you , why is it my message to read it
does bother you . Some have told me the same thing in times past.
HEY AMIGO , READ YOUR BIBLE . AND I JUST JOYED AND REJOICED WHEN THEY DID .
EVEN THOUGH , by grace I DO Read it . I DIDNT come after them and tell them to SHUT UP
and stop reminding me . something in the scrips does bother you rita .
I bet you dont have peace just reading it as a whole anymore . rather something in it is bothering you
We are to shine the light , we are to let people see the fruit and work of GOD amongst us
EVEN THE SCRIPS says that . SO what is your problem with these reminders i do give .
HECK if you or anyone told me to BE reading my bible daily , You wont see me saying , HOW dare thee
I do read it . NOPE i would faint with joy .
save-image.png
 
  • Love
Reactions: amigo de christo

setst777

Member
Mar 24, 2023
238
58
28
67
Oak Creek
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
setst777 said: That is a good understanding, since Christ sacrifice redeems us (believers) from our sins purchasing us for God as from a marketplace with his blood.

Revelation 5:9 and purchased [Greek: agorazó] us for God with your blood out of every tribe, language, people, and nation,

Strong's Concordance #59 agorazó
agorazó
: to buy in the marketplace, purchase

Acts 20:28 (WEB) the assembly of God which he purchased with his own blood.



setst777 said: Christ is our substitute; in that, he was sacrificed as payment to sins - sins that kept us (sinners who believe) captive to death and separation from God.

2 Corinthians 5:21 God made him who had no sin to be sin for us so that in him, we might become the righteousness of God.

No. You are taking the redemption metaphor too far in your search for a buyer and a seller. The exchange wasn't a "purchase" as you describe it. The exchange comes in the form of a propitiatory offering. Jesus “redeems” us from condemnation by propitiating God’s wrath toward us (and our sinfulness): God’s wrath toward us is replaced with God’s delight toward Jesus, his Son; at the time of our judgment, God’s delight toward his Son overshadows his wrath toward us

No doubt the Father was well pleased with His Son. God was well pleased, because Christ became that unblemished Lamb to atone (make propitiation) for our sins by His shed blood on the cross, thus satisfying God's justice.

Romans 5:9 (WEB) 9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we will be saved from God’s wrath through him.

Romans 3:23-24 (WEB)
23 for all have sinned, and fall short of the glory of God;
24 being justified freely by his grace
through [Greek: dia] the redemption that is in Christ Jesus

Strong's Concordance #1223
dia
: through, on account of, because of

Remember, since the cross, Jesus has been given all authority, including forgiving our sins. The cross is the means to forgive our sins but not as a payment of our moral debt, but as the means for Christ to enter the heavenly temple and make our appeal to God in person.

Lord Jesus became that High Priest forever by offering himself as our sin offering to redeem us from all iniquity.

Titus 2:14 (WEB) who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity
and
purify for himself a people for his own possession, zealous for good works.

That is why, as High Priest, Lord Jesus is able to forgive sins, because without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.

Matthew 26:28 for this is my blood of the new covenant, which is poured out for many for the remission/forgiveness [Gk: aphesis] of sins.

When a man frees a slave from the slave market, he isn't paying for the slave, he is paying for his release.

You agreed earlier that God purchased us for himself from the slave market.

Revelation 5:9 and purchased [Greek: agorazó] us for God with your blood out of every tribe, language, people, and nation,

Strong's Concordance #59 agorazó
agorazó
: to buy in the marketplace, purchase


CadyandZoe said: I agree.

I am puzzled:
How can you agree and disagree at the same time?

Believers were freed from sin to become God's possession - slaves of God

Romans 6:22
(WEB) But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves [douloó] of God, the benefit you reap leads to holiness, and the result is eternal life.

Strong's Concordance #1402 douloó
douloó:
to enslave, bring under subjection
Definition: to enslave, bring under subjection
Usage: I enslave.

HELPS Word-studies
Cognate: 1402
doulóōenslave (passive, "become enslaved"), focusing on the status of being a bond-slave. In contrast to the other verb-form of the same root (1398 /douleúō), 1402 (doulóō) stresses the results (effects) of enslavement. That is, what automatically goes with belonging to another. See 1401 (doulos).

1 Corinthians 6:19-20
(WEB) 19 You are not your own; 20 you were bought at a price. Therefore, honor God with your bodies.

Titus 2:14 (WEB) who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity
and
purify for himself a people for his own possession, zealous for good works.

Christ's redemption paid for the release of his followers from sin.

Yes, the redemption by Christ's blood is a payment/purchase on the believer's behalf from all iniquity to release us from sin to be his followers, his slaves, to obey all things that he commands of us.

Titus 2:14 (WEB) who gave himself for us, that he might redeem [purchase] us from all iniquity
and
purify for himself a people for his own possession, zealous for good works.

Acts 20:28 (WEB) the assembly of God which he purchased with his own blood.

Matthew 28:19-20 Go and make disciples [followers] of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to obey all things that I commanded you.

Hebrews 5:9 Having been made perfect, he became to all who obey him the author of eternal salvation

We (those who believe) are released from sin by the blood of Christ to be God's possession.

Romans 7:4 (WEB) So, my brothers and sisters, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, that you might belong to another, to him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God.

Revelation 5:9 and purchased [Greek: agorazó] us for God with your blood out of every tribe, language, people, and nation,

Strong's Concordance #59 agorazó
agorazó
: to buy in the marketplace, purchase

Acts 20:28 (WEB) the assembly of God which he purchased with his own blood.

So, now you should be able to see that Christ's sacrifice is the redemption, a payment, to purchase us from sin to become God's possession. We are forgiven of all sins because Christ paid the price to purchase us from all sin by His blood.

Titus 2:14 (WEB) who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity
and
purify for himself a people for his own possession, zealous for good works.

Matthew 26:28 for this is my blood of the new covenant, which is poured out for many for the remission/forgiveness [Gk: aphesis] of sins.
 
Last edited:

Ritajanice

Born-Again
Mar 9, 2023
13,207
7,528
113
United Kingdom
Faith
Christian
Country
United Kingdom
Matthew 5:14-16 - Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid. (Read More...)

Matthew 5:16 - Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

John 8:12 - Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.

Luke 8:16 - No man, when he hath lighted a candle, covereth it with a vessel, or putteth it under a bed; but setteth it on a candlestick, that they which enter in may see the light.

Acts 13:47 - For so hath the Lord commanded us, saying, I have set thee to be a light of the Gentiles, that thou shouldest be for salvation unto the ends of the earth.

1 Peter 2:9 - But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

Matthew 5:14 - Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.

1 John 1:5 - This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.

Ephesians 5:8 - For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light:

Proverbs 6:23 - For the commandment is a lamp; and the law is light; and reproofs of instruction are the way of life:

Philippians 2:15-16 - That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world; (Read More...)

Isaiah 42:6 - I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles;

Colossians 3:17 - And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.

Genesis 1:4 - And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness
 

quietthinker

Well-Known Member
May 4, 2018
13,821
8,770
113
FNQ
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia

TULIP an open discussion​

tiptoe through the tulips with meeeee !
 

marks

Well-Known Member
Oct 10, 2018
36,712
24,041
113
SoCal USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Ephesians 2:3
Audio Crossref Comment Greek
Verse (Click for Chapter)
New International Version
All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our flesh and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature deserving of wrath.

New Living Translation
All of us used to live that way, following the passionate desires and inclinations of our sinful nature. By our very nature we were subject to God’s anger, just like everyone else.

English Standard Version
among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind.

Berean Standard Bible
All of us also lived among them at one time, fulfilling the cravings of our flesh and indulging its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature children of wrath.

Berean Literal Bible
among whom we all also once lived in the desires of our flesh, doing the things willed of the flesh and of its thoughts; and we were by nature children of wrath even as the rest.
Why would you have real anger at a character in a story you wrote?

Much love!
 

marks

Well-Known Member
Oct 10, 2018
36,712
24,041
113
SoCal USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I posted scripture to support Gods wrath.
You may need to read through my discussion with @CadyandZoe to see the context for my question. He describes us as a story written by God, in which God has written out all our actions and choices and all we are and do, as characters in his story. So I'm asking why would you be angry with a character in a story that you've written? If you've decided who and what each character is to be and do?

I can write a story about a man killing another man, should I then be actually angry at this character I've written, as though I hadn't written it?

Much love!
 

marks

Well-Known Member
Oct 10, 2018
36,712
24,041
113
SoCal USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
You've never been angry at an injustice you saw in a movie?
I remember when my brother and I went to see Jurrasic Park when it was in the theatre. There was a scene where a couple of the characters were perched atop the broken dome over the lobby, looking down as Velociraptors were leaping up, snapping their teeth. My brother and I both jerked our knees up to avoid being eaten by the Velociraptors.

There's a thing we do when we see a movie, read a book, it's called "suspending disbelief". It's mentally setting aside the fact that we are watching a fiction, a movie, and we allow ourselves to be drawn into it, to let our minds go along with the story as though it were real. But we know it's not, so no one is trying to track down and punish the characters who broke the rules and let all those people get eaten by dinosours.

Much love!
 

marks

Well-Known Member
Oct 10, 2018
36,712
24,041
113
SoCal USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
"If you think that's what I said, then I misspoke. The concept of redemption originates from the slave market. It refers to the money a man pays the slaveholder to release a slave. The man is not purchasing the slave. If he did, he would own the slave. But his intent is not to own the slave, but to set the slave free. The exchange involves payment, yes, but it isn't a purchase as you suggest."
The man buys the slave which gives him the legal right to do what he will, and what he will is to free the slave he's just purchased. He bought the slave, only then does he have the right to set him free.

Much love!