You already have made up your mind and will be right where you are at on judgment day
Eternal Life is Now!
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I told you to point out those among John's audience that are unbelievers.
You failed to do so.
I'm not interested in your stories
Give me Bible evidence
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
I guess if you want to force your belief on a passage you can do this.
But I do not believe people who are deceived or Call God a liar are saved.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
Still you gave zero Bible evidence for your interpretation on 123John.
Prove to everyone that those told to confess their sins in 1John 1:9
(Remember these folks are walking in darkness until they repent as was commanded by John.)
Prove they are not born again believers.
Dont run off to some where else in the Bible.
Prove it in the 1st chapter of 1John 1.
Until then, you are just making stuff up
John wrote the same way Paul did, in the context that there are false Christians among the true Christians. Paul, writing to the churches, warned that such and such people will not inherit, or in whichever way the various passages word it. And never as though the true born again believer ceases to be born again, or ceases to have the new spiritual life.
James, Peter, and Jude also spoke directly on this point. James addressed those who claim faith, or even think they have faith, but aren't actually changed by it. Peter and Jude warned about deceivers among true believers, there to lead them astray. Again, they don't speak of these deceivers as being regenerate, or having been regenerate, now having lost that regeneration.
So if we start with the particular passage, it shows false mixed with true, and the true don't leave. If we expand into the rest of the letter, John wrote the same way, that there are those who are true, those who are liars.
Expanding to the other letters and didactic NT writings, we continue to see the same thing, again, in James, Peter, and Jude.
I'm not aware of any passage in the Bible which actually teaches that being regenerated by God can be, or might be undone. And a great many passages that affirm regeneration is never undone.
Wonderful promises from our Lord! John even teaches that our certainty that having become God's children we will become like Jesus when we see Him, having this expectation we purify ourselves, just as Jesus is pure. Knowing that Jesus will accomplish this in us makes us so that we accomplish the parts we can.
The accusation is that OSAS causes us to become complacent, allowing sin, knowing, "It's OK, God forgives!" But in fact this is the exact opposite of what the Bible teaches,
1 John 3:1-3 KJV
1) Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
2) Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
3) And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.
And this is what we want, isn't it? To have a pure life while we wait for Jesus? This is how we do that, by having this hope, this certain expectation founded upon His promise, that we will appear with Him in glory, our "body of humiliation" becoming like His glorious body, becoming like Him when we see Him.
Much love!
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Dr. Laura said something really good once, "When people tell you who they are, believe them." No need to fool yourself about someone when the evidence is right there in front of you.
So just to say don't be surprised if I don't reply to your posts.
Much love!
All you did was type out the verses!!!
I asked you to point out where the unbelievers are among the believers in this chapter.
Instead you just told me what you think the Bible teaches.
I've read 1John 3:1-3
Nowhere does it mention John is speaking to unbelievers in the context.
You have a pretext.
I'm fine with you not responding.
As I've already said about you,
You got your mind made up.
I'm only interested in folks who will consider the possibility that they could be wrong. Myself included.
1John 3:1-3,
- behold what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us(born again)
- that we(born again) should be called the sons of God
- therefore the world knoweth us(born again) not
- because it(lost) knew Him not
- beloved(born again) now are we(born again) the sons of God and it doth not yet appear what we(born again) shall be, but we(born again) know that when Jesus shall appear we(born again) shall be like Him
- for we(born again) shall see Him as He is
- and every man that hath this hope in Him purifieth himself even as He is pure
No indication the lost unbelievers are being spoken to by John among the brethren here.
Wheres your evidence?
This is a passage showing the permanence of rebirth. You may need to reread my post.
Much love!
You still have given no proof of your claim that1John 1:9 those told to repent of their sins are unbelievers that John is speaking to as his audience in 1John chapter one.
Why doesn't he tell them to believe on the Lord if they are unbelievers?
Prove you are not taking the audience who is being spoken to by John in 1John 1
Out of context.
I've already proven the audience is Christians by typing out all of the personal pronouns.
You gave zero evidence that the unbelievers were among those John was speaking to.
None
You just claim it.
I'm not interested in your stories give evidence
mailmandan
Well-Known Member
John 1:6 describes those who merely say/claim they have fellowship with God, and walk in darkness. Such people lie and do not practice the truth. This is 'descriptive' of children of the devil who meet this condition.
Walking in the light is 'descriptive' of children of God who meet this condition (and only children of God are in the light - Acts 26:18; 2 Corinthians 6:14; Ephesians 5:8) and they have fellowship with God in CONTRAST with those who merely say/claim they have fellowship with God and walk in darkness.
So we have two camps here. 1. Those who merely say/claim they have fellowship with God and walk in darkness. Such people (pseudo Christians) lie and do not practice the truth. *Compare with 1 John 3:10 - ..Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is he who does not love his brother. *Also compare with 1 John 2:9 - He who says he is in the light, and hates his brother, is in darkness until now. In verse 11 - But he who hates his brother is in darkness and walks in darkness, and does not know where he is going, because the darkness has blinded his eyes. *Scripture is crystal clear here that this walking in darkness is 'descriptive' of children of the devil.
2. Those who walk in the light (genuine Christians) as He is in the light, have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses them from all sin. Genuine Christians practice righteousness (and not sin) and love their brother. (1 John 3:9-10) Verse 14 - We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love the brethren. He who does not love his brother abides in death.
CONTINUED...
mailmandan
Well-Known Member
Notice that - "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness" (1 John 1:9) is in contrast to - If we say that we have no sin, (present tense) we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us (1 John 1:8) and - If we say that we have not sinned, (past tense) we make him a liar, and his word is not in us. (1 John 1:10)
Certain folks seem to misunderstand verse 9 to mean that we "must confess each and every sin that we commit as we commit them" (keep a specific inventory of every sin) as an "additional requirement" to "remain cleansed" and "if we forget a sin, we are toast!" Who could actually write an exhaustive list of every sin they have ever committed or ever will commit? Sin is not only missing the mark by what we do but also what we fail to do. (James 4:17)
Believers "confess" (Greek - homologeó) speak the same/acknowledge/agree with God's perspective about their sins and have a settled recognition and ongoing acknowledgment that one is a sinner in need of cleansing and forgiveness in contrast with saying that we have no sin or that we have not sinned. (1 John 1:8-10)
Certain folks seem to misunderstand verse 9 to mean that we "must confess each and every sin that we commit as we commit them" (keep a specific inventory of every sin) as an "additional requirement" to "remain cleansed" and "if we forget a sin, we are toast!" Who could actually write an exhaustive list of every sin they have ever committed or ever will commit? Sin is not only missing the mark by what we do but also what we fail to do. (James 4:17)
Believers "confess" (Greek - homologeó) speak the same/acknowledge/agree with God's perspective about their sins and have a settled recognition and ongoing acknowledgment that one is a sinner in need of cleansing and forgiveness in contrast with saying that we have no sin or that we have not sinned. (1 John 1:8-10)
Pure imagination.
Nowhere does John say this in 1John 1.
Quote: John saying this idea you have created?
mailmandan
Well-Known Member
Pure truth. 1 John 1:6 - If we say (or claim) that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth.
I properly harmonized scripture with scripture in order to reach my conclusion on doctrine in post #192. It amazes me how everything that I explained in post #192 just went right over your head.
1John 1:6,Pure truth. 1 John 1:6 - If we say (or claim) that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth.
I properly harmonized scripture with scripture in order to reach my conclusion on doctrine in post #192. It amazes me how everything that I explained in post #192 just went right over your head.
If we(born again believers) say that we have fellowship with Him and walk in darkness (to practice willful sin) we(born again christians) lie and do not practice the truth
The we here are the same we who is speaking, in 1John.
John is saying if we(John includes himself in the we).
No wonder you dont understand.
You have created a pretext.
mailmandan
Well-Known Member
Show me where the Bible teaches that born again believers have no fellowship with God, walk in darkness, lie and do not practice the truth. That is 'descriptive' of pseudo-Christians/make believers and not genuine born-again believers. They are included in WE and John makes multiple contrasts between children of the devil and children of God including 1 John 2:9-11 (also see 1 John 2:19) and 1 John 3:7-10.
Speaking collectively to the entire 'professing' group. As I have said before. There are genuine Christians and there are "nominal" Christians. There are genuine believers and there are make believers mixed together throughout the Bible and throughout various churches and throughout various Christian forum sites ALL claiming to be genuine Christians/believers. Hence, the warnings.
That statement is the epitome of irony. I'm really not interested in your eisegesis.
You teach Christians can sin and are not seperated from God?
Christians lie, do you deny they do.
Christians sometimes dont practise truth, you deny they do.
Walking in darkness is when christians sin against God.
They are in darkness according to John until they repent.
Your beliefs make repentance unnecessary.
Here I'll show you,
Galatians 2:11-14,
- But when Peter came to Antioch I had to oppose him to his face, because he was to be blamed
For before certain men came from James he would eat with the gentiles but when they(jews) came he withdrew and seperated himself fearing those of the circumcision and the rest of the Jews also played the hypocrite with Peter so that even Barnabus was carried away with their hypocrisy
-but when I saw that they were not straightforward about the truth(do not practice truth)
I said to Peter before them all
- if you being a jew live in the manner of gentiles and not as Jews why do you compel the gentiles to live as Jews
- Wnen Peter came to Antioch I challenged him to his face because he was wrong(
Verse 13,
- so Peter was a hypocrite as were the other Jewish believers who joined with him
Verse 14,
- When i(Paul) saw they were not following the TRUTH OF THE GOSPEL I spoke to Peter in front of them all, I said Peter you are a jew but you are not living like a jew, So why do you try to force those who are not Jewish to live like jews
Peter a born again Christian was not living as a Christian but a hypocrite.
Peter was practicing sin! You know hypocrisy is a sin.
Matthew 23:15,
- woe to you scribes and Pharisees you hypocrites
So Peter was a practicing hypocrite not practicing truth, meaning he was not following the gospel of Jesus Christ.
Danthemailman, was Peter walking in darkness and in need of repentance, confession for his sins,
1John 1:9,?
- if we confess our(Christians like Peter) sins God is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness
Will you continue with your pretext and say Peter was a
mailmandan
Well-Known Member
All have sinned and come short of the glory of God. (Romans 3:23) For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. (Romans 6:23)
Do you understand what the word "practice" means? This is talking about one's lifestyle or bent of life and not occasional stumbles. 1 John 3:9 (AMP) - No one who is born of God [deliberately, knowingly, and habitually] practices sin, because God’s seed [His principle of life, the essence of His righteous character] remains [permanently] in him [who is born again—who is reborn from above—spiritually transformed, renewed, and set apart for His purpose]; and he [who is born again] cannot habitually [live a life characterized by] sin, because he is born of God and longs to please Him.
False. If only Christians who lived a sinless, without fault or defect, flawless, absolute perfect life 100% of the time exactly like Jesus Christ walked in the light then all Christians would be walking in darkness. Only Christians are in the light in order to walk in the light. (Acts 26:18; 2 Corinthians 6:14; Ephesians 5:8; 1 Thessalonians 5:4) Pseudo Christians/unbelievers remain in darkness.
False. What revolving door of bondage you teach. Moral self-reformation is not a substitute for regeneration.
My beliefs do not discard repentance (properly understood).
More eisegesis. Peter was a born-again Christian yet here he simply had a temporary weak moment of being a hypocrite out of fear of the circumcision. This was not his lifestyle or bent of life, continuous action.
That's not practicing sin if it's a temporary weak moment. These Pharisees were unbelievers and remained unbelievers. They practiced sin (as unbelievers) and were genuine practicing hypocrites.
No, Peter was a momentary hypocrite and not a practicing hypocrite who (continuous action) did not practice the truth.
No. Peter stumbled and had a weak moment but did not remain there. 1 John 1:9 is in contrast to 1 John 1:8 - If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us and 1 John 1:10 - If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us. That did not apply to Peter.
So, you are of the inventory confession of sins crowd who believe that we must confess each and every sin that we commit as we commit them (keep a specific inventory) in order to get saved over and over again and if we forget a sin we are toast? That is some heavy bondage there!
Will you continue with your eisegesis? You are thoroughly confused.
So now you are teaching God takes away the freewill of the ones He saves.
No He does not.
Christians do leave Christ permanently Dan.
OK, Dan so if I commit one sin I'm still practicing the truth(practicing the gospel) because it's not habitual.
That's your teaching!!!
Those who are in darkness were once in the light according to John in 1John 1:8-9,
Paul said Peter did not practice the truth,
1John 1:6,
- if we say we have fellowship with God yet walk in darkness we lie AND DO NOT PRACTISE THE TRUTH(gospel),
1John 1:6 cont.
- but if we(Christians like Peter) walk in the light(practise the truth) as Jesus is in the light we have fellowship with one another and the blood of Jesus Christ cleanses us from all sin
1John 1:9,
- if we(Christian's that once did not practice the truth, walked in darkness as Peter) confess our sins God is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness
Yes, the Greek in 1John 1:6,
- if we should say that fellowship we have with Him and yet in the darkness should walk we lie and not practise the truth
Greek word here for practise is poieo,
Strongs concordance: make, manufacture, construct, I do, act, cause
Thayers Greek lexicon,
To make, to produce, construct, form, fashion, to make a path,
To labor to do work, exercise, activity,
To make one do a thing
To cause one to
To be the author of a thing
To carry out, to execute
To accomplish
To commit
To perform
1John 1:6 does not specify the time period of the sins.
It only states when one stops practicing the truth.
Then one must confess their sins
The Problem Dan is 1John 1:9,
John never says those who need to confess their sins are HABITUAL sinners.
It only says we(christians) must confess our sins when we sin.
JUST ANSWER MY QUESTION: WHY DOES JOHN NOT TELL THESE SUPPOSED NON-CHRISTIANS TO BELIEVE IN JESUS?
WHY IN 1John 1:9,
JOHN TELLS THEM TO REPENT OF SINS BY CONFESSING THEM?
If they were not christians as you claim John would have told them to believe on Christ not repent of their sins by confessing them!!!
Now we move to a diferent chapter,
Again you interpret this as if it is IMPOSSIBLE for a born again believer to practise habitual sin.
You are teaching God takes away the freewill of a born again Christian.
NO WHERE IN THE BIBLE IS THIS TAUGHT.
Hebrews 3:12,
- beware brethren(born again) lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God
The lost cannot depart from God Dan!!!! They are already seperated from Him walking in darkness.
This passage is speaking to christians. It refutes your belief that Christians have no ability to practise habitual sin.
You have a theology that teaches OSAS.
All you are doing is molding the Scriptures in the shape of your theology.
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