What is the "SIGN" of the Son of Man - Poll

[ewq1938]

As the lightning SHINES from east to west. It's referring to its shinning not it's speed Marty

Lightning is fast and bright, and it's also extremely loud but it's sound is slower than it is.

 

[akelch]

I took a look at Orion in the Bible and Orion <3685> kesil, is found in Isaiah 13:10, Amos 5:8, Job 9:9, and Job 38:31.



Isaiah 13:9 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.
10 For the stars of heaven and the constellations<3685> thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine.

These verses in particular do seem to tie Orion with the Matthew 24:29 statement of the sun being darkened, the moon not giving her light, the stars falling from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shaken.

I am interested in what else you might have to say, although I will admit I am skeptical. You say the constellation has to be paired with something else, would this be something like a comet that passes through Orion as viewed from earth?

I understand your skepticism. I was skeptical myself when I was exposed to this, but after considering that God himself said he uses the Sun, moon, and stars for seasons and "Signs" in Genesis 1:14 I started to look at it differently.

"And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for SIGNS, and for seasons, and for days, and years:"

Almost all the Jewish feast days are dictated by the phase of the moon and the position of the Sun in certain constellations. The Passover for example happens when the Sun is in Aries (the lamb/ram) and during the full moon which would but the Moon in the constellation Virgo the virgin. This all symbolized the Virgin birth of the Messiah as the sacrificial lamb of God. This shows that nothing God does is random and he used His whole creation to declare His glory.

Psalms 19
1 The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.
2 Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night sheweth knowledge.
3 There is no speech nor language, where their voice is not heard.
4 Their line is gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. In them hath he set a tabernacle for the sun,

The Sun, Moon, and planets are like a giant clock in the sky. They each have their own movement and speed. If we pair that with the 12 major constellations (Zodiac or the Mazzaroth as it is known in the Hebrew tongue) we would see a amazing tool to date certain events centuries in the future.
Most of the language used in describing astronomical dating by the Prophets are overlooked by modern Christians because of the lack of understanding of their culture and traditions. Plus, we have been taught that almost anything related to the stars and planets is Astrology and that is sinful. When we read about a "7 headed beast" or a "dragon" we think in terms of a spiritual vision and totally miss that the language being used is describing astronomical bodies and positioning of the planets in relation to particular constellations at a certain time in history.

I did a small video explaining this over Daniel Chapter 8 (Ram and Goat). It is one of the best prophecies to use in order to show the relationship of the planets and constellations with real world events because the Angel Gabriel walks Daniel through the meanings of the vision. And since this prophecy has already been fulfilled, we can verify our work.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

As the lightning SHINES from east to west. It's referring to its shinning not it's speed Marty

LOVE! I fell asleep last night listening to proverbs in my earbuds …the path of the just will shine brighter and brighter until that perfect day.

When the above verse was quoted I thought of what you said which I take to mean it’s about the quality and not the speed of the “Shine”

We sing songs about it “this little l light of mine, I’m going to let it shine. Let it shine. Let it shine.” No?

 

[grafted branch]

I understand your skepticism. I was skeptical myself when I was exposed to this, but after considering that God himself said he uses the Sun, moon, and stars for seasons and "Signs" in Genesis 1:14 I started to look at it differently.

"And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for SIGNS, and for seasons, and for days, and years:"

Almost all the Jewish feast days are dictated by the phase of the moon and the position of the Sun in certain constellations. The Passover for example happens when the Sun is in Aries (the lamb/ram) and during the full moon which would but the Moon in the constellation Virgo the virgin. This all symbolized the Virgin birth of the Messiah as the sacrificial lamb of God. This shows that nothing God does is random and he used His whole creation to declare His glory.

Psalms 19
1 The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.
2 Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night sheweth knowledge.
3 There is no speech nor language, where their voice is not heard.
4 Their line is gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. In them hath he set a tabernacle for the sun,

The Sun, Moon, and planets are like a giant clock in the sky. They each have their own movement and speed. If we pair that with the 12 major constellations (Zodiac or the Mazzaroth as it is known in the Hebrew tongue) we would see a amazing tool to date certain events centuries in the future.
Most of the language used in describing astronomical dating by the Prophets are overlooked by modern Christians because of the lack of understanding of their culture and traditions. Plus, we have been taught that almost anything related to the stars and planets is Astrology and that is sinful. When we read about a "7 headed beast" or a "dragon" we think in terms of a spiritual vision and totally miss that the language being used is describing astronomical bodies and positioning of the planets in relation to particular constellations at a certain time in history.

I did a small video explaining this over Daniel Chapter 8 (Ram and Goat). It is one of the best prophecies to use in order to show the relationship of the planets and constellations with real world events because the Angel Gabriel walks Daniel through the meanings of the vision. And since this prophecy has already been fulfilled, we can verify our work.

I watched the video, it was very interesting and really is just comparing facts. This is the kind of thing I can appreciate.

Here’s where I’m going to have an issue though, when we come to New Heaven New Earth we have no need of sun or moon as seen in Revelation 21:23 and Isaiah 60:19-20. I personally think we have arrived to the NHNE, spiritually speaking, and we no longer need to observe the various feast days, new moons, and so on.

I know whether we are spiritually in the NHNE is very debatable but this, in my opinion, is where using the astronomical signs of the past and projecting them forward beyond 70AD will be met with resistance. I’m curious, where are you as far as your end time view, preterist, Amil, Premil or ?

 

[akelch]

I watched the video, it was very interesting and really is just comparing facts. This is the kind of thing I can appreciate.

Here’s where I’m going to have an issue though, when we come to New Heaven New Earth we have no need of sun or moon as seen in Revelation 21:23 and Isaiah 60:19-20. I personally think we have arrived to the NHNE, spiritually speaking, and we no longer need to observe the various feast days, new moons, and so on.

I know whether we are spiritually in the NHNE is very debatable but this, in my opinion, is where using the astronomical signs of the past and projecting them forward beyond 70AD will be met with resistance. I’m curious, where are you as far as your end time view, preterist, Amil, Premil or ?

You would classify me as Amil. I believe Christ is on the throne now and has dominion over the Earth. But we are still in the process of making this world "Heaven on Earth".
You could argue that the NHNE was started at the Cross but has not reached it's full protentional because we (the human race) have not reached our full potential.

 

[grafted branch]

You could argue that the NHNE was started at the Cross but has not reached it's full protentional because we (the human race) have not reached our full potential.

Yea, I can see that as a possibility, I tend to look at things in terms of probability. There are some eschatological views that I think are impossible and there are others that are possible but I assign low probabilities due to various verses that can’t be explained if that particular interpretation is held.

I do agree that NHNE arrived at the cross, which is really the new covenant, but the old heaven old earth (old covenant) didn’t end until 70AD, which means there was an overlap of the two. The old covenant was no longer valid after the cross but it was still being observed with its celestial observances.



Jeremiah 31:35 Thus saith the LORD, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The LORD of hosts ishis name: 36 If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the LORD, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.



In Jeremiah 31:35-36 we have the interesting statement about the ordinances of the sun, moon, and stars being before God. As you pointed out in an earlier post, those ordinances are found in Genesis 1:14. We do see the sun and moon not obeying those ordinances in Isaiah 60:19-20. So I guess it really comes down to when those ordinances depart from before God as to when we would no longer need to observe the celestial movements as signs. No matter where we place the ordinances departing from God, it includes the seed of Israel ceasing from being a nation before God for ever also.

 

[Timtofly]

I can’t ignore where the word shows “the stars falling”

“And his tail swept away a third of the stars of heaven, and threw them to the earth. And the dragon stood before the woman who was about to give birth, so that when she gave birth he might devour her child,” (Revelation 12:4).

• Isaiah 66:4-7 I also will choose their delusions, and will bring their fears upon them; because when I called, none did answer; when I spake, they did not hear: but they did evil before mine eyes, and chose that in which I delighted not. [5] Hear the word of the LORD, you that tremble at his word; Your brethren that hated you, that cast you out for my name's sake, said, Let the LORD be glorified: but he shall appear to your joy, and they shall be ashamed. [6] A voice of noise from the city, a voice from the temple, a voice of the LORD that rendereth recompence to his enemies. [7] Before she travailed, she brought forth; before her pain came, she was delivered of a man child.

To me the tail drew a third of the stars of heavens -swept away —and cast them down.

Still think it connects to Luke 2:34 And Simeon blessed them, and said unto Mary his mother, Behold, this child is set for the fall (casting down) and rising again(lifting up) of many in Israel; and for a sign which shall be spoken against;

A third of the angels rebelled against God, and were bound in chains of darkness. That is all that John is telling us, not when they were cast to the earth.

A star as a messenger is called an angel. Otherwise they are simply the stars.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

A third of the angels rebelled against God, and were bound in chains of darkness. That is all that John is telling us, not when they were cast to the earth.

A star as a messenger is called an angel. Otherwise they are simply the stars.

To me “stars” are messengers, men meant “to shine”
I could be wrong but it seems by what I read God set up stars in Israel to be as the sons of God but they refused to give (share) their light—where He said He would remove their light. Christ told this to the Pharisees how if they had know the “peace” that belonged to them, but now it was hidden from them. I do believe there was those set in authority —yet He speaks of removal of those “stars put in place” and how He would set New stars in their place.

To me there is a whole thread that runs through the Word where He will bring down that which is exalted and exalt that which is brought low. Again where He said Kings would be removed. I still think it goes back to His birth when Mary was told “this child” he is set for the fall of that which is exalted and the rising again of that which is brought low. To me that’s the “stars fall” and “stars rising again” resurrected in Him. To be Abased and to be abounding. Paul said he was instructed to be both. As Also “2 Corinthians 4:9 Persecuted, but not forsaken; cast down, but not destroyed;
Why does the dragons tail draw a third of the stars out of heaven and cast them down —then the dragon waits for the man child to be delivered that he might devour it? Yet —before the woman trails she delivered —God comforts those “cast down” …

You said “A third of the angels rebelled against God, and were bound in chains of darkness. That is all that John is telling us, not when they were cast to the earth.” Not that they were cast to the earth? Yet there are false lights—false messengers of satan? Why does it have to be they were not cast to the earth? In my mind to cast something to the earth is for that something “to fall” —-same to me as what Mary was told. This child is set for “the fall” and “lifting up again” of many in Israel. For a sign to be spoken against. The Word gives us more visuals of “mountains brought low” and “the valleys brought up”: teaching the unseen by what is seen. “To fall” and “to rise up” …yet we say “cast down” doesn’t mean…stars fall down.

Revelation 12:4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

 

[akelch]

Yea, I can see that as a possibility, I tend to look at things in terms of probability. There are some eschatological views that I think are impossible and there are others that are possible but I assign low probabilities due to various verses that can’t be explained if that particular interpretation is held.

I do agree that NHNE arrived at the cross, which is really the new covenant, but the old heaven old earth (old covenant) didn’t end until 70AD, which means there was an overlap of the two. The old covenant was no longer valid after the cross but it was still being observed with its celestial observances.



Jeremiah 31:35 Thus saith the LORD, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The LORD of hosts ishis name: 36 If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the LORD, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.



In Jeremiah 31:35-36 we have the interesting statement about the ordinances of the sun, moon, and stars being before God. As you pointed out in an earlier post, those ordinances are found in Genesis 1:14. We do see the sun and moon not obeying those ordinances in Isaiah 60:19-20. So I guess it really comes down to when those ordinances depart from before God as to when we would no longer need to observe the celestial movements as signs. No matter where we place the ordinances departing from God, it includes the seed of Israel ceasing from being a nation before God for ever also.

I agree with you that there was a "overlap" between the old and new covenant. I believe this was a period of time the God allow that generation of Jews to fully embrace Christ as the Messiah. But I don't think it stopped at 70 AD. The nation of Israel was destroyed then but the rinmanites of the Old covenant Jews survived for years after.

Matthew 24:31
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

I believe "the elect" to be the last of the Old covenant Jews that accepted Christ as the Messiah. This is also echoed in Revelation 7 with the sealing of the 144,000.
This brings me back to the Sign of the Son of Man. If we can determine when these events happened in Matthew 24 then we decipher what actually took place.
My research in this "sign" have led me to the conclusion that Matthew 24 is not talking about 1 judgement but 3 judgements that took place during that time.

70 AD judgement against Israel leadership - Matt 24:9-28
79 AD judgement against Roman for killing and enslaving Jews and Christ followers - Matt 24:30

Gathering of the elect Matt 24:31-36 (the last generation of Old covenant Jews would have died) 80 years from the start of Christ ministry.

115 AD judgement against the Nicolaitans for spreading a false gospel and leading people astray. Matt 24:37-44

These events can be traced back to the Sign of the Son of Man and the descriptions given for what took place at that time. As you maybe aware of, Matthew 24 verbiage does match up with the 7 Seals of Revelation. John's depiction of the 7 seals comes with it's own astronomical dating that matches with the time I specified above.

I'll give you more details about this later.

 

[wooddog]

I understand your skepticism. I was skeptical myself when I was exposed to this, but after considering that God himself said he uses the Sun, moon, and stars for seasons and "Signs" in Genesis 1:14 I started to look at it differently.

"And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for SIGNS, and for seasons, and for days, and years:"

Almost all the Jewish feast days are dictated by the phase of the moon and the position of the Sun in certain constellations. The Passover for example happens when the Sun is in Aries (the lamb/ram) and during the full moon which would but the Moon in the constellation Virgo the virgin. This all symbolized the Virgin birth of the Messiah as the sacrificial lamb of God. This shows that nothing God does is random and he used His whole creation to declare His glory.

Psalms 19
1 The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.
2 Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night sheweth knowledge.
3 There is no speech nor language, where their voice is not heard.
4 Their line is gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. In them hath he set a tabernacle for the sun,

The Sun, Moon, and planets are like a giant clock in the sky. They each have their own movement and speed. If we pair that with the 12 major constellations (Zodiac or the Mazzaroth as it is known in the Hebrew tongue) we would see a amazing tool to date certain events centuries in the future.
Most of the language used in describing astronomical dating by the Prophets are overlooked by modern Christians because of the lack of understanding of their culture and traditions. Plus, we have been taught that almost anything related to the stars and planets is Astrology and that is sinful. When we read about a "7 headed beast" or a "dragon" we think in terms of a spiritual vision and totally miss that the language being used is describing astronomical bodies and positioning of the planets in relation to particular constellations at a certain time in history.

I did a small video explaining this over Daniel Chapter 8 (Ram and Goat). It is one of the best prophecies to use in order to show the relationship of the planets and constellations with real world events because the Angel Gabriel walks Daniel through the meanings of the vision. And since this prophecy has already been fulfilled, we can verify our work.

Here's a fun fact for you. Outside Orion's hand is the Pleiades also mentioned Job. If you overlayed a map of the 7 churches of the Revelations it is almost an exact match to the 7 sisters.

 

[quietthinker]

LOVE! I fell asleep last night listening to proverbs in my earbuds …the path of the just will shine brighter and brighter until that perfect day.

When the above verse was quoted I thought of what you said which I take to mean it’s about the quality and not the speed of the “Shine”

We sing songs about it “this little l light of mine, I’m going to let it shine. Let it shine. Let it shine.” No?

you have a spirit ViJ which I find so endearing!

 

[akelch]

Here's a fun fact for you. Outside Orion's hand is the Pleiades also mentioned Job. If you overlayed a map of the 7 churches of the Revelations it is almost an exact match to the 7 sisters.

Yep! Well done!

 

[grafted branch]

Gathering of the elect Matt 24:31-36 (the last generation of Old covenant Jews would have died) 80 years from the start of Christ ministry.

To clarify your view, then you see the Matthew 24:31 gathering of the elect taking place on an individual basis, as each Jew died? Or a single event taking place on a specific day?

115 AD judgement against the Nicolaitans for spreading a false gospel and leading people astray. Matt 24:37-44

What historical event that took place in 115 AD qualified as a fulfillment of Matthew 24:37-44?

These events can be traced back to the Sign of the Son of Man and the descriptions given for what took place at that time. As you maybe aware of, Matthew 24 verbiage does match up with the 7 Seals of Revelation. John's depiction of the 7 seals comes with it's own astronomical dating that matches with the time I specified above.

I'll give you more details about this later.

I can’t argue against the astronomical evidence but I personally disagree with the seals being associated with Matthew 24:5-7. I think the first 4 seals happened prior to the cross with the sixth seal taking place at the time Jerusalem was destroyed.

Nevertheless I’m still interested in the other details you have.

 

[Timtofly]

To me “stars” are messengers, men meant “to shine”
I could be wrong but it seems by what I read God set up stars in Israel to be as the sons of God but they refused to give (share) their light—where He said He would remove their light. Christ told this to the Pharisees how if they had know the “peace” that belonged to them, but now it was hidden from them. I do believe there was those set in authority —yet He speaks of removal of those “stars put in place” and how He would set New stars in their place.

To me there is a whole thread that runs through the Word where He will bring down that which is exalted and exalt that which is brought low. Again where He said Kings would be removed. I still think it goes back to His birth when Mary was told “this child” he is set for the fall of that which is exalted and the rising again of that which is brought low. To me that’s the “stars fall” and “stars rising again” resurrected in Him. To be Abased and to be abounding. Paul said he was instructed to be both. As Also “2 Corinthians 4:9 Persecuted, but not forsaken; cast down, but not destroyed;
Why does the dragons tail draw a third of the stars out of heaven and cast them down —then the dragon waits for the man child to be delivered that he might devour it? Yet —before the woman trails she delivered —God comforts those “cast down” …

You said “A third of the angels rebelled against God, and were bound in chains of darkness. That is all that John is telling us, not when they were cast to the earth.” Not that they were cast to the earth? Yet there are false lights—false messengers of satan? Why does it have to be they were not cast to the earth? In my mind to cast something to the earth is for that something “to fall” —-same to me as what Mary was told. This child is set for “the fall” and “lifting up again” of many in Israel. For a sign to be spoken against. The Word gives us more visuals of “mountains brought low” and “the valleys brought up”: teaching the unseen by what is seen. “To fall” and “to rise up” …yet we say “cast down” doesn’t mean…stars fall down.

Revelation 12:4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

Because the angels rebelled around the same time Adam disobeyed God. That is when they were "cast down".

John was not saying that 4 out of the 12 stars of Jacob was cast to the earth.

"And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:"

That is in reference to the dream Joseph had.

"And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth."

These are the stars who followed Satan in rebellion according to Jude 1:6.

"And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day."

The rebel angels were of heaven, the firmament. The woman with the 12 stars is Israel, per the dream Joseph had, not of heaven. Men did not come from the firmament, cast to the earth.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Men did not come from the firmament, cast to the earth.

I think we are talking about two different ways of being “cast down” to the earth. I don’t see men literally thrown down to earth. But men brought low and on their knees—fallen. For example:
James 4:7-10 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. [8] Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded. [9] Be afflicted, and mourn, and weep: let your laughter be turned to mourning, and your joy to heaviness. [10] Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

To me it’s an exchange when speaking of stars that fall in bringing low, or to be brought down. Another example is: casting down vain imagination and spiritual sickness in high places.

I’m not trying to convince you. I just shared another way I suspect “stars fall” from heaven.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

you have a spirit ViJ which I find so endearing!

Thank you. It’s nice to read your comment and it’s encouraging.

 

[akelch]

To clarify your view, then you see the Matthew 24:31 gathering of the elect taking place on an individual basis, as each Jew died? Or a single event taking place on a specific day?

Individually. But the verse is talking about the completeness of it.

What historical event that took place in 115 AD qualified as a fulfillment of Matthew 24:37-44?

There was a major earthquake off the coast of Antioch that caused a very destructive tsunami on December 13th 115 AD. Antioch was home base for the Roman army in it's campaign against Israel and it was ground zero for the Nicolaitan movement. This movement was named after Nicolas a convert to Judaism. His followers are the "antichrists" that John talks about that are "at work". Christ himself calls them out in Revelation 2 and 3 to the letters to the churches.

Acts 6:5
5 And the saying pleased the whole multitude: and they chose Stephen, a man full of faith and of the Holy Ghost, and Philip, and Prochorus, and Nicanor, and Timon, and Parmenas, and Nicolas a proselyte of Antioch:

I can’t argue against the astronomical evidence but I personally disagree with the seals being associated with Matthew 24:5-7. I think the first 4 seals happened prior to the cross with the sixth seal taking place at the time Jerusalem was destroyed.

Nevertheless I’m still interested in the other details you have.

Rev. 6:12-17
12 I looked when He opened the sixth seal, and behold, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became like blood. 13 And the stars of heaven fell to the earth, as a fig tree drops its late figs when it is shaken by a mighty wind. 14 Then the sky [receded as a scroll when it is rolled up, and every mountain and island was moved out of its place. 15 And the kings of the earth, the great men, the rich men, the commanders, the mighty men, every slave and every free man, hid themselves in the caves and in the rocks of the mountains, 16 and said to the mountains and rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of Him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! 17 For the great day of His wrath has come, and who is able to stand?”

Matthew 24:29-30
29 “Immediately AFTER the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

The descriptions of the 6th seal and Matthew 24:29-30 match up BUT they do not talk about the destruction of Jerusalem. In order to make these event apply to 70 AD, you have the "symbolize" the events described by Christ and John. Even the "hiding in mountains" have to be thought of as metaphor because there are no mountains in Jerusalem to hide in. This event happen AFTER the tribulation (after the destruction of Jerusalem) . So it happened after Jerusalem was defeated by Roman and the Jews and Christian were killed or brought back to Rome and crucified in the Roman circus.

Rev. 6:7 When He opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth living creature saying, “Come and see.” 8 So I looked, and behold, a pale horse. And the name of him who sat on it was Death, and Hades followed with him. And [f]power was given to them over a fourth of the earth, to kill with sword, with hunger, with death, and by the beasts of the earth.(Roman Circus)

In 79 AD Mt. Vesuvius erupted in Italy and destroying 1/3 of the Roman empire. That eruption cause a major earthquake which shifted the landscape (every mountain and island was moved out of its place.) The mushroom cloud that was created by the volcano appeared as a scroll as if it is rolled up on itself. The ash produced darkened the sky, turning day into night. The only place people could hide from the falling lava rocks is in the caves near by. Ironically, this eruption happen during the Roman festival of Vulcanalia (Vulcan is the god of fire) when the neighboring cities would have been full of visitors.
This also happened right before Rosh Hashanah (the feast of trumpets).

 

[wooddog]

To me “stars” are messengers, men meant “to shine”
I could be wrong but it seems by what I read God set up stars in Israel to be as the sons of God but they refused to give (share) their light—where He said He would remove their light. Christ told this to the Pharisees how if they had know the “peace” that belonged to them, but now it was hidden from them. I do believe there was those set in authority —yet He speaks of removal of those “stars put in place” and how He would set New stars in their place.

To me there is a whole thread that runs through the Word where He will bring down that which is exalted and exalt that which is brought low. Again where He said Kings would be removed. I still think it goes back to His birth when Mary was told “this child” he is set for the fall of that which is exalted and the rising again of that which is brought low. To me that’s the “stars fall” and “stars rising again” resurrected in Him. To be Abased and to be abounding. Paul said he was instructed to be both. As Also “2 Corinthians 4:9 Persecuted, but not forsaken; cast down, but not destroyed;
Why does the dragons tail draw a third of the stars out of heaven and cast them down —then the dragon waits for the man child to be delivered that he might devour it? Yet —before the woman trails she delivered —God comforts those “cast down” …

You said “A third of the angels rebelled against God, and were bound in chains of darkness. That is all that John is telling us, not when they were cast to the earth.” Not that they were cast to the earth? Yet there are false lights—false messengers of satan? Why does it have to be they were not cast to the earth? In my mind to cast something to the earth is for that something “to fall” —-same to me as what Mary was told. This child is set for “the fall” and “lifting up again” of many in Israel. For a sign to be spoken against. The Word gives us more visuals of “mountains brought low” and “the valleys brought up”: teaching the unseen by what is seen. “To fall” and “to rise up” …yet we say “cast down” doesn’t mean…stars fall down.

Revelation 12:4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

When you look at the constellations, Draco's tail is always chasing Virgo, (The Woman). It would not be in inconceivable for a sign to be the stars changing their courses.

 

[akelch]

When you look at the constellations, Draco's tail is always chasing Virgo, (The Woman). It would not be in inconceivable for a sign to be the stars changing their courses.

The stars that make up the constellations do not "change their course". But they do move through the sky. The stars raise in the east and fall in the west. For example

Daniel 7
2 Daniel spoke, saying, “I saw in my vision by night, and behold, the four winds of heaven were stirring up the Great Sea. 3 And four great beasts came up from the sea, each different from the other.
The phrase "coming up" means he is seeing the stars rise in the east per the rotation of the earth.


Also "stars" is a loose term. Meteors are called "falling stars" and planets are called "wandering stars".

 

[VictoryinJesus]

The stars that make up the constellations do not "change their course". But they do move through the sky. The stars raise in the east and fall in the west. For example

With certainty stars can’t change their direction? Which stars do you mean? Consider …the Revelation of Jesus Christ reveals things we can’t see through imagery of what we can see.

Also "stars" is a loose term. Meteors are called "falling stars" and planets are called "wondering stars".

Stars wander …
Back to Jude 1:10-13 stars who wander around….foaming out their own shame (to me) to foam is very graphic of the things we say but ought not say. “Foaming out their own shame” God has a way with the words getting right to the point!

‘But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves. [11] Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core. [12] These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withers, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots; [13] Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever.’