Homosexuality: Wrong or Right?
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One can give the statistics of rape and pedophilia acts whether against lgtbq or heterosexuals it still doesn't make their activities right before God or the assault of rape.
One can give the statistics of murder - one can give statistics of adultery, fornication, lying, cheating, stealing etc none of which is right before the eyes of God.
And if the history of people continues to repeat itself, the lgtbq will become relaxed and themselves begin to participate in more heinous activities.
GracePeace
Well-Known Member
All irrelevant to the question of what God says in Scripture about homosexuality.
Ziggy
Well-Known Member
I don't know that.
God creates challenges for people to see if they will truly love him and follow him.
So what if a person only has this challenge they have to overcome?
They are not theives, or murderers, or liers, or hateful...
They have no faults to repent from except this particular one that we find so grevious.
I'm not gay. I wasn't created gay. That doesn't mean God doesn't have a purpose for gay people.
Why did God harden Pharoahs heart?
Why did God lead the children in the wilderness for forty years?
They were being proved.
If you are a christian then you have come through the proving process. You believed, you repented and now you follow Christ.
The rest of the world is still being proven.
Their challenge is not our challenge.
They will have to make a decision of their own at some point... or not.
If God calls them and they make a conscious decision to know him, then they will have to make that decision for themselves.
You can't change them and neither can I. But with God All things are possible.
Hugs
May I have a verse that says God creates challenges for Christians to see if they will truly love Him and follow Him?
I am speaking of the so-called gay gene, I agree sin world influnce towards temptation.,
GracePeace
Well-Known Member
Irrelevant as to God's Word, which condemns and prohibits the behavior.
BlessedPeace
Well-Known Member
Now it's straights turn to suffer discrimination.
God says homosexuality is an abomination.
Who calls him wrong?
Taken
Well-Known Member
Homosexuality: Wrong or Right?
Homosexuality is naturally abnormal in humans.
Homosexuality is naturally anti-godly in humans.
Homosexuality is spiritually anti-godly in humans.
Homosexuality is right in the heart of a naturally abnormal, anti-godly individual human.
Homosexuality is wrong in the heart of a spiritually godly individual human.
Homosexuality: wrong or right?
Answer depends on IF it is a person whose standing IS without or within the Lord God Almighty.
Glory to God,
Taken
Homosexuality is naturally abnormal in humans.
Homosexuality is naturally anti-godly in humans.
Homosexuality is spiritually anti-godly in humans.
Homosexuality is right in the heart of a naturally abnormal, anti-godly individual human.
Homosexuality is wrong in the heart of a spiritually godly individual human.
Homosexuality: wrong or right?
Answer depends on IF it is a person whose standing IS without or within the Lord God Almighty.
Glory to God,
Taken
Arthur81
Well-Known Member
From the Christian Post -
www.christianpost.com
This article is about the American Association of Christian Counselors(AACC), and for a Christian family dealing with homosexuality in their midst, I'd strongly suggest steering clear of this outfit.
From two articles about the AACC approach to this subject -
From Wikipedia:
"In 2014 AACC amended its code of ethics to eliminate the promotion of conversion therapy for same-sex attracted individuals, encouraging those individuals to practice a celibate sexual life instead."
From the Tyler Clementi Foundation, about the AACC statement on homosexuality:
"'The 2014 Code of Ethics also states: “Counselors may agree to and support the desire to work through issues of homosexual and transgendered identity and attractions, but will not describe or reduce human identity and nature to sexual orientation or reference, and will encourage sexual celibacy or biblically-prescribed sexual behavior while such issues are being addressed.'
Childers said his organization must question what a Christian counselor might consider 'biblically- prescribed sexual behavior' for the young gay or lesbian individual. “Is the young person going to be told that developing an intimate relationship with a person [of the same sex] is considered sinful behavior?"
From the Merriam-Webster on "sodomite":
"often offensive: someone who practices sodomy --> used as a term of abuse and disparagement for a gay person"
The homosexual male is not necessarily a sodomite. The two words are not synonymous. The idea of homosexuality being the translation of arsenokoites in 1 Cor. 6:9 and 1 Tim. 1:10 never came about until the mid-20th century. Previously, in our traditional English translations, the word was considered "sodomite" as a male who "sodomizes" another male, as seen in the Tyndale, Bishops, Geneva, KJV, 1885 RV, 1898 Young's Literal Translation and the 1901 ASV. (Using 1828 Webster's definitions for the dynamic translations)
To insist that the realistic and biblical answer to the gay male is "celibacy" is false and harmful to the Christian who is gay. The apostle Paul teaches that celibacy is a gift of God that not all men have, 1 Cor. 7:7-9. *The words of Jesus also refute that idea in two places:
"For some are incapable of marriage from birth, some are made incapable by the action of men, and some have made themselves so for the sake of the kingdom of Heaven. Let the man who can accept what I have said accept it." (Matt. 19:12 Philips) *Yes, it is literally "eunuchs", but if one can be physically a eunuch from birth, is there evidence that one cannot also be a eunuch mentally from birth?
“You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ But I say to you that every one who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart." (Matt 5:27-28 RSV)
*To be gay is to desire gay sex, so if gay sex is sin, the gay is a sinner merely by being gay. The solution of "celibacy" for the gay is unbiblical as well as unrealistic.
A sodomite truly is one who commits the 'sin of Sodom', which was an attempt to "sodomize" the two male/angel visitors to Lot.
The American Heritage Dictionary of English: "sodomize, To subject to an act of sodomy, especially forcibly."
I post this from the perspective of one who has had to deal with this question within the Christian family, so I have spent time in study of this situation biblically as well as psychologically. This topic must NOT be dealt with emotionally, but from objective facts from Scripture.
America facing ‘mental health disaster,’ American Association of Christian Counselors head says
America is in the throes of a mental health disaster that requires a holistic solution grounded in a biblical worldview and starting in the family, according to Tim Clinton, president of the American
www.christianpost.com
This article is about the American Association of Christian Counselors(AACC), and for a Christian family dealing with homosexuality in their midst, I'd strongly suggest steering clear of this outfit.
From two articles about the AACC approach to this subject -
From Wikipedia:
"In 2014 AACC amended its code of ethics to eliminate the promotion of conversion therapy for same-sex attracted individuals, encouraging those individuals to practice a celibate sexual life instead."
From the Tyler Clementi Foundation, about the AACC statement on homosexuality:
"'The 2014 Code of Ethics also states: “Counselors may agree to and support the desire to work through issues of homosexual and transgendered identity and attractions, but will not describe or reduce human identity and nature to sexual orientation or reference, and will encourage sexual celibacy or biblically-prescribed sexual behavior while such issues are being addressed.'
Childers said his organization must question what a Christian counselor might consider 'biblically- prescribed sexual behavior' for the young gay or lesbian individual. “Is the young person going to be told that developing an intimate relationship with a person [of the same sex] is considered sinful behavior?"
From the Merriam-Webster on "sodomite":
"often offensive: someone who practices sodomy --> used as a term of abuse and disparagement for a gay person"
The homosexual male is not necessarily a sodomite. The two words are not synonymous. The idea of homosexuality being the translation of arsenokoites in 1 Cor. 6:9 and 1 Tim. 1:10 never came about until the mid-20th century. Previously, in our traditional English translations, the word was considered "sodomite" as a male who "sodomizes" another male, as seen in the Tyndale, Bishops, Geneva, KJV, 1885 RV, 1898 Young's Literal Translation and the 1901 ASV. (Using 1828 Webster's definitions for the dynamic translations)
To insist that the realistic and biblical answer to the gay male is "celibacy" is false and harmful to the Christian who is gay. The apostle Paul teaches that celibacy is a gift of God that not all men have, 1 Cor. 7:7-9. *The words of Jesus also refute that idea in two places:
"For some are incapable of marriage from birth, some are made incapable by the action of men, and some have made themselves so for the sake of the kingdom of Heaven. Let the man who can accept what I have said accept it." (Matt. 19:12 Philips) *Yes, it is literally "eunuchs", but if one can be physically a eunuch from birth, is there evidence that one cannot also be a eunuch mentally from birth?
“You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ But I say to you that every one who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart." (Matt 5:27-28 RSV)
*To be gay is to desire gay sex, so if gay sex is sin, the gay is a sinner merely by being gay. The solution of "celibacy" for the gay is unbiblical as well as unrealistic.
A sodomite truly is one who commits the 'sin of Sodom', which was an attempt to "sodomize" the two male/angel visitors to Lot.
The American Heritage Dictionary of English: "sodomize, To subject to an act of sodomy, especially forcibly."
I post this from the perspective of one who has had to deal with this question within the Christian family, so I have spent time in study of this situation biblically as well as psychologically. This topic must NOT be dealt with emotionally, but from objective facts from Scripture.
If you are 18 and think you are a different gender. You have a mental illness. If you are 8 and think you are a different gender. Your mother has a mental illness.From the Christian Post -
America facing ‘mental health disaster,’ American Association of Christian Counselors head says
America is in the throes of a mental health disaster that requires a holistic solution grounded in a biblical worldview and starting in the family, according to Tim Clinton, president of the American
This article is about the American Association of Christian Counselors(AACC), and for a Christian family dealing with homosexuality in their midst, I'd strongly suggest steering clear of this outfit.
From two articles about the AACC approach to this subject -
From Wikipedia:
"In 2014 AACC amended its code of ethics to eliminate the promotion of conversion therapy for same-sex attracted individuals, encouraging those individuals to practice a celibate sexual life instead."
From the Tyler Clementi Foundation, about the AACC statement on homosexuality:
"'The 2014 Code of Ethics also states: “Counselors may agree to and support the desire to work through issues of homosexual and transgendered identity and attractions, but will not describe or reduce human identity and nature to sexual orientation or reference, and will encourage sexual celibacy or biblically-prescribed sexual behavior while such issues are being addressed.'
Childers said his organization must question what a Christian counselor might consider 'biblically- prescribed sexual behavior' for the young gay or lesbian individual. “Is the young person going to be told that developing an intimate relationship with a person [of the same sex] is considered sinful behavior?"
From the Merriam-Webster on "sodomite":
"often offensive: someone who practices sodomy --> used as a term of abuse and disparagement for a gay person"
The homosexual male is not necessarily a sodomite. The two words are not synonymous. The idea of homosexuality being the translation of arsenokoites in 1 Cor. 6:9 and 1 Tim. 1:10 never came about until the mid-20th century. Previously, in our traditional English translations, the word was considered "sodomite" as a male who "sodomizes" another male, as seen in the Tyndale, Bishops, Geneva, KJV, 1885 RV, 1898 Young's Literal Translation and the 1901 ASV. (Using 1828 Webster's definitions for the dynamic translations)
To insist that the realistic and biblical answer to the gay male is "celibacy" is false and harmful to the Christian who is gay. The apostle Paul teaches that celibacy is a gift of God that not all men have, 1 Cor. 7:7-9. *The words of Jesus also refute that idea in two places:
"For some are incapable of marriage from birth, some are made incapable by the action of men, and some have made themselves so for the sake of the kingdom of Heaven. Let the man who can accept what I have said accept it." (Matt. 19:12 Philips) *Yes, it is literally "eunuchs", but if one can be physically a eunuch from birth, is there evidence that one cannot also be a eunuch mentally from birth?
“You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ But I say to you that every one who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart." (Matt 5:27-28 RSV)
*To be gay is to desire gay sex, so if gay sex is sin, the gay is a sinner merely by being gay. The solution of "celibacy" for the gay is unbiblical as well as unrealistic.
A sodomite truly is one who commits the 'sin of Sodom', which was an attempt to "sodomize" the two male/angel visitors to Lot.
The American Heritage Dictionary of English: "sodomize, To subject to an act of sodomy, especially forcibly."
I post this from the perspective of one who has had to deal with this question within the Christian family, so I have spent time in study of this situation biblically as well as psychologically. This topic must NOT be dealt with emotionally, but from objective facts from Scripture.
Behold
Well-Known Member
You are teaching that its 'mentally" healthy for the Homosexual to continue to have homosexual sex.
Arthur81
Well-Known Member
Can you not read plain English? I wrote absolutely NOTHING about gender dysphoria. I addressed the matter of the OP, homosexuality.
Arthur81
Well-Known Member
I challenged the erroneous teaching that the Bible condemns any and all forms of gay love with sexual intimacy. What is mentally unhealthy, is to subject one's loved one to the guilt and mental anguish brought about by faulty psychology as well as distorted biblical interpretation. No one has ever demonstrated from a close and in depth examination of scripture, where God condemns two males in a loving and sexually intimate relationship. The Bible even records such a loving relationship, from just one verse of this loving relationship:
"I am distressed for thee, my brother Jonathan: very pleasant hast thou been unto me: thy love to me was wonderful, passing the love of women." (2Sam 1:26 KJV)
"I grieve for you, Jonathan my brother; you were most dear to me; your love for me was wonderful, surpassing the love of women." (2Sam 1:26 REB)
"I grieve for thee, my brother Jonathan: exceeding beautiful, and amiable to me above the love of women. As the mother loveth her only son, so did I love thee." (2Sam 1:26 Douay translation of the Latin Vulgate)
The Holy Spirit inspired words "love of women" has been such an embarrassment to religious tradition, that the Latin began distorting the verse by adding a completely spurious sentence, which I underlined. The verse does not say "love of wife/wives" or "love of mother"... it says "love of women" plural and it is clear as to meaning. If not, why did the Latin and the English based on the Latin, add a fake verse of another type of love?
I did not read what you wrote. The system put your post in front of me and I added my thoughts.
Arthur81
Well-Known Member
Peter, it seems I misunderstood you, so I apologize. Apparently you were referring to what was stated in the article, rather than what I personally wrote. Again, I ask forgiveness for my 'sarcasm' about your ability to read.
No need for apologizes. And you are right that's what I did and allowed a good guy like you to be the first to read my thoughts on the OP.
2 Samuel 1
Easy-to-Read Version
David Learns About Saul’s Death
1 After David defeated the Amalekites, he went back to Ziklag. This was just after Saul had been killed. David had been there two days. 2 Then, on the third day, a young soldier from Saul’s camp came to Ziklag. His clothes were torn, and he had dirt on his head.[a] He came to David and bowed with his face to the ground.3 David asked him, “Where have you come from?”
The man answered, “I just came from the Israelite camp.”
4 David asked him, “Please tell me, who won the battle?”
The man answered, “Our people ran away from the battle. Many of them were killed in the battle. Even Saul and his son Jonathan are dead.”
5 David said to the young soldier, “How do you know Saul and his son Jonathan are dead?”
6 The young soldier said, “I happened to be on Mount Gilboa. I saw Saul leaning on his spear. The Philistine chariots and horse soldiers were coming closer and closer to Saul. 7 Saul looked back and saw me. He called to me and I answered him. 8 Then Saul asked me who I was. I told him that I was an Amalekite. 9 Then Saul said, ‘Please kill me. I am hurt badly. And I am about to die anyway.’ 10 He was hurt so badly that I knew he wouldn’t live. So I stopped and killed him. Then I took the crown from his head and the bracelet from his arm and brought them here to you, my lord.”
11 Then David tore his clothes to show he was very sad. All the men with him did the same thing. 12 They were very sad and cried. They did not eat until evening. They cried because Saul and his son Jonathan were dead. David and his men cried for the Lord’s people, and they cried for Israel. They cried because Saul, his son Jonathan, and many Israelites had been killed in battle.
David Orders the Amalekite Killed
13 Then David talked with the young soldier who had told him about Saul’s death. David asked, “Where are you from?”The young soldier answered, “I am the son of a foreigner. I am an Amalekite.”
14 David said to the young soldier, “Why were you not afraid to kill the Lord’s chosen king[b]?”
15-16 Then David told the Amalekite, “You are responsible for your own death. You said you killed the Lord’s chosen king, so your own words prove you are guilty.” Then David called one of his young servants and told him to kill the Amalekite. So the young Israelite killed him.
David’s Song About Saul and Jonathan
17 David sang a sad song about Saul and his son Jonathan. 18 David told his men to teach the song to the people of Judah. This song is called “The Bow,” and it is written in the Book of Jashar.[c]19 “Israel, your beauty was ruined on your hills.
Oh, how those heroes fell!
20 Don’t tell the news in Gath.[d]
Don’t announce it in the streets of Ashkelon.[e]
Those Philistine cities would be happy!
Those foreigners[f] would be glad.
21 “May no rain or dew fall
on you, mountains of Gilboa.
May there be no offerings
coming from your fields.
The shields of the heroes rusted there.
Saul’s shield was not rubbed with oil.
22 Jonathan’s bow killed its share of enemies,
and Saul’s sword killed its share!
They have spilled the blood of men now dead.
They cut into the fat of strong men.
23 “Saul and Jonathan—how dear they were to us!
In life they loved being together,
and even death did not separate them!
They were faster than eagles
and stronger than lions.
24 Daughters of Israel, cry for Saul!
Saul gave you beautiful red dresses
and covered them with gold jewelry!
25 “Strong men have fallen in the battle.
Jonathan is dead on Gilboa’s hills.
26 Jonathan, my brother, I miss you!
I enjoyed your friendship so much.
Your love for me was wonderful,
stronger than the love of women.
27 Heroes have fallen in battle.
Their weapons of war are lost.”
Footnotes
- 2 Samuel 1:2 clothes … head This showed that the man was very sad.
- 2 Samuel 1:14 chosen king Literally, “anointed one.”
- 2 Samuel 1:18 Book of Jashar An ancient book about the wars of Israel.
- 2 Samuel 1:20 Gath The Philistine capital city.
- 2 Samuel 1:20 Ashkelon One of the five major Philistine cities.
- 2 Samuel 1:20 foreigners Literally, “uncircumcised.” This shows that the Philistines had not shared in Israel’s agreement with God.
GracePeace
Well-Known Member
"The love of women": love is not sex. Love consists in more than sex.
The actual love shared between a man and his wife is not merely sex.
Sex can be an act of love, but it is not love.
God had supernaturally made their souls one.
1 Samuel 18
1As soon as he had finished speaking to Saul, the soul of Jonathan was knit to the soul of David, and Jonathan loved him as his own soul.
...
3Then Jonathan made a covenant with David, because he loved him as his own soul.
The Law says "love your neighbor as yourself"--this is one instance of that love commanded in the Law.
When David says, "surpassing the love of women", he was saying the love he shared with Jonathan was so pure and unadulterated it was beyond anything sexual--we only know David to have had heterosexual sexual relationships, and that is the context where sex would have occurred--but you're taking and abusing his words here to make him out to be something he never would have accepted.
Nevertheless, God gives people enough room to choose their own way and reap the consequences. There are so many examples of this. You can read it however you want.
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