Are Mormons Christians? (Latter Day Saints)

[amigo de christo]

Friend....I am not condemning you. Just trying to understand you.

oh i know my friend . ITS why i said SARCHASM . i know you are . ITS JUST MANY ARE VERY FAST TO CONDMEN ME .

 

[amigo de christo]

Back to the Bible….
Does that mean don’t worry about wedding ceremonies and back to polygamy and concubinage and having slaves.

wedding cermonies do not concern me . UNLESS its man with man or woman with woman
as far as slaves and cocubines . The early church itself who had the BETTER convenant
never taught such . in fact while it did not condmen pologomy or servants , IT TOO said THINGS Like
be ye not the servants of men and also if ye can be made free USE it rather .
but just dont whine or care about it if you are a servant .
as far as pologomy is concerned , even the early church knew it ought to be one man one woman
so they too went about to lead the church in that direction , BY reminding them only APPOINT MEN
who have one wife . not two , not three , but one . BUT EVEN THAT IS SEEN in the bible .
now does one HAVE TO PERFORM a wedding cermony to be married . NO .
DO THEY HAVE TO GET PERMISSION of the govt , NO . however it is the law
so i would say go ahead and get that license .
BUT as far as having TO perform a ceremony . I WOULD NOT CONDMEN
anyone who simply got married before the LORD if even in private .
LEST of course it was man with man women with women . THAT I WOULD Not approve of at all .
NOR , and let us take heed to this , NOR IF A BELIEVER , take note i said BELIEVER
wanted to marry an UNBELIEVER . I WOULD warn against that too .
As far as unbelievers who were married and then later one of them comes to CHRIST
i would still encourage them to remain with the unbeliever with the mindset that they might be able
to end up convincing them to come to CHRIST . but that is not a law .
Because even paul knew to say I SAY and NOT THE LORD .
because even in the law a jew could put away HIS UNBELIVING WIFE , or a jewess could put away her unbelieving husband .

 

[amigo de christo]

Friend....I am not condemning you. Just trying to understand you.

When i say i have read and do read the bible a lot , i say it not to glorify me nor to say that none should not test me .
BUT by grace i have read it daily for hours for almost eighteen years . IT has come together very good too .
its why i can, by grace use the reminders to any conversation to expose the error any might have .
IT really will come together very clearly an very plainly in time .
AND the beauty of it is , I DO NOT grow weary of reading it . I just love and enjoy it and do so with
others too every day . its beatiful to read and just learn . and yet i know its all by the grace of GOD .

 

[Grailhunter]

I INVITE you to talk personally TO WOMEN whom have heard me as well as men .
PAUL wasnt wrong to say the man is the head .
and before you say some of the things he taught was due to the laws of the land
TRY READING the bible . both he and peter gave BIBLICAL EXAMPLES OF WHY THIS WAS SO .
some of you all act like you all know better than paul and the other apostels .
as for me , I AM JUST IN AGREEMENT WITH THEM . but then , we were warned
the time would come when they would not ENDURE SOUND DOCTRINE . WELL ITS MASSIVE TODAY .

I get what you are saying. And it was true at the time, so was slavery. It was not the time to change these things. Stopping slavery at that time would have destroyed the whole economic system.

But I think I understand that you think that Christianity is a static religion. You could not be more wrong. Change is an issue with some Christians but they do not understand the reality of the scriptures or the reality of what changed after the biblical ere. The Bible is all about change…it almost the theme. Mosaic Law was a change….the Covenants where a change….the New Testament was a change….

In the Old Testament the Pagans were the enemy….the whole kill all that breathes thing….war…. kill….execute those that broke the Mosaic Law. In the New Testament it changed and the Pagans were welcomed into Christianity. And Christ objected killing people for breaking the law.....the woman caught in adultery is an example....change change change.

After the biblical period Christianity changed or learned that polygamy was wrong and concubinage was wrong and wedding were good. Big changes throughout the Bible and time.

 

[MatthewG]

Well, the Bible says it’s God’s will that “all sorts of people should be saved and come to an accurate knowledge of the truth.” (1Tim.2:4) [And Jesus told us Who gives it. (Luke 10:21)]

Furthermore, the Bible encourages us to “Draw close to God…” at James 4:8, yet there are many teachings out there that push people away from God, one of which is eternal torment.

Just something to consider.

Best wishes, my cousin.

But just because someone presents what they may believe to be true doesn’t make it true. I suppose anything against the spirit would be untruthful, but anything against the narrative of the gospel would also be untruthful.Thank you for your comments.

 

[amigo de christo]

I get what you are saying. And it was true at the time, so was slavery. It was not the time to change these things. Stopping slavery at that time would have destroyed the whole economic system.

But I think I understand that you think that Christianity is a static religion. You could not be more wrong. Change is an issue with some Christians but they do not understand the reality of the scriptures or the reality of what changed after the biblical ere. The Bible is all about change…it almost the theme. Mosaic Law was a change….the Covenants where a change….the New Testament was a change….

In the Old Testament the Pagans were the enemy….the whole kill all that breathes thing….war…. kill….execute those that broke the Mosaic Law. In the New Testament it changed and the Pagans were welcomed into Christianity. And Christ objected killing people for breaking the law.....the woman caught in adultery is an example....change change change.

After the biblical period Christianity changed or learned that polygamy was wrong and concubinage was wrong and wedding were good. Big changes throughout the Bible and time.

actually it would not have shut down the economic system . you are confusing the biblical version
with the AMERICAN version . the american and earlier english verison of slavery ought never once
have been done and SPECIALLY by CHRISTAINS . you are misunderstanding my dear friend .
THE system most of us know as slavery , IS THE AMERICAN version of it .
But since we are on that note . DO YOU REALLY BELIEVE the north WAS PRO FREEDOM AND LOVED THE SLAVES
AND THIS IS WHY THE COOPERATIONS CONVINCED THE GOVT AND THE GOVT THEN CONVINCED
THE PEOPLES TO END IT .
NOPE . do you really want to know why the beloved north went to war against the south
and was agaisnt slavery . cause the south due to its evil slavery
could set the market . IT WAS ABOUT MONEY , NOT the love for the slaves .
THOUGH at least SLAVERY DID GET ENDED . at least that good came of it .
BUT make not mistake the north DIDNT LOVE THE BLACKS , HECK the freed blacks
were treated bad in the north too . or didnt you know this .
I Dont seem to remember them getting the right to vote or etc , TILL MANY YEARS LATER .
BUT i can at least say SLAVERY WAS ENDED and at the least THAT WAS GOOD .

 

[Grailhunter]

YOU read FOR YOU why both peter and paul said this . THEY GAVE SCRIPTURAL REASONS .
todays generation only tries to say OH THEY SAID THIS OR THAT DUE TO THE TIMES OR ETC THEY LIVED IN .
NO , try reading the bible , THEY GAVE BIBLICAL REASONS .
and before you cast me to the lake of fire , not that you would its sarchasm ,
HOW COME NOT ONE APOSTLE JESUS CHOSE was female . NOW dont try and tell me
the same line it was due to culture or etc .
JESUS DIDINT LIVE BY CULTURE ,BUT BY EVERY WORD OF GOD . WELL HE IS THE WORD OF GOD .
Women cannot lead nor urusrp authority over the man .
BUT again before you kick me to the dogs , again sarchrasm ,
THIS DONT MEAN men cannot hearken unto the voice of their wife , as GOD TOLD even abraham about ISHAMEL
Women as do men serve a great purpose in the church . THEY JUST CANNOT LEAD NOR URSURP authority over it .
NOW hear this too .
IF YOU THINK for even a second that i am of the mindset that what the husband says IS LAW AND THE WOMEN must obey .
THINK AGAIN .
ABIGIAL . remember abigail .
IN the bible , A BOOK I OFTEN MAKE MENTION OF , we see a wife
of a husband name nabal .
Nabal rejected the servants of david and would not give food .
The servants of david spoke to abigail and TOLD HER about her husband .
SHE KNEW HE DID NOT APPROVE , YET SHE GAVE THEM FOOD ANWAY .
SHE WAS BLESSED . YOU SEE if anything , AND BOY I DO MEAN ANYTHING
a man , a woman OR EVEN THE GOVT says , CONTRADICTS GOD , WE DONT HEED A FRIGGIN WORD OF IT .
SO MUCH FOR THE OBEY GOVTS CRAP i keep hearing from a lot of church leaders .
OH I OBEY THE GOVT . dont get me wrong . BUT WHEN AND IF THAT GOVT PASSES ANY LAW
and i do MEAN ANY LAW that contradicts GOD . BET YOU BOTTOM DOLLAR that i wont be heeding that law . CAUSE I WONT .

You like the whole domination of women thing….

Total disregard to the scripture that says that to God that there was no male or female… There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise.

There is a lot more to this….this adhering to this concept of women….there are guys that like having sex with little girls because of the Old Testament.

How can you love a woman and dominate her?

 

[Grailhunter]

BY reminding them only APPOINT MEN
who have one wife . not two , not three , but one .

Maybe for the same reason that God told kings not to have too many wives….they can be a distraction.

 

[amigo de christo]

Time for a lesson on economics. you do realize that if folks dont pay their peoples
to do their work and only at the very least provide them the cheapest food and place to live
THAT another who PAYS HIS workers , CANNOT SET THE MARKET .
those who spend far less on their workers can lower the price and thus set the market and make the profit .
THAT IS WHY THE NORTH WENT TO WAR . it could not compete . IT had nothing to do with the fact it loved the blacks .
THOUGH at least slavery DID END . BUT dont think the NORTH was good , IT DID what it did for the love of MONEY .
IT treated the blacks like second rate citizens .
AND now for another history lesson .
DID YOU all know that slavery was once NOT FOR LIFE . it was a term for a certain time .
GUESS WHO got it approved to be for life . A BLACK MAN that owned black slaves DID . SO MUCH FOR
what the govt and this crap hole lie is trying to sell us today . THAT ALL WHITE MAN IS EVIL .
WRONG . ALL MEN ARE EVIL . no race is worse or better than the other > SO DONT BUY THE LIE FOLKS .

 

[amigo de christo]

You like the whole domination of women thing….

Total disregard to the scripture that says that to God that there was no male or female… There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise.

There is a lot more to this….this adhering to this concept of women….there are guys that like having sex with little girls because of the Old Testament.

How can you love a woman and dominate her?

I guess about the only thing i can do is tell you to talk to those women who know me best .
ASK THEM IF I BELEIVE in DOMINEERING anyone .
ask them . THEY have heard me . You are so far from right on this assumption it would truly make your head spin .
I say that not cause i think you are stupied or dumb , but you are dead wrong about this assumptoin about me .

 

[Grailhunter]

actually it would not have shut down the economic system . you are confusing the biblical version
with the AMERICAN version .

Oh no slavery was an essential part of the economic system and even social structure in ancient times….look it up.

Slavery in the south was a different story….a long story.

 

[amigo de christo]

You like the whole domination of women thing….

Total disregard to the scripture that says that to God that there was no male or female… There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise.

There is a lot more to this….this adhering to this concept of women….there are guys that like having sex with little girls because of the Old Testament.

How can you love a woman and dominate her?

men love your wives AS JESUS LOVED THE CHURCH .

 

[amigo de christo]

Oh no slavery was an essential part of the economic system and even social structure in ancient times….look it up.

Slavery in the south was a different story….a long story.

well yes it was . i mean you are correct in part on that . but the nations of the world
and their slaves , was a far different cry to the nation of Israel and her slaves .
BUT YOU ARE SPOT ON RIGHT about it being a part of the economic system . That is correct .
i see what you are trying to say now .

 

[Grailhunter]

well yes it was . i mean you are correct in part on that . but the nations of the world
and their slaves , was a far different cry to the nation of Israel and her slaves .
BUT YOU ARE SPOT ON RIGHT about it being a part of the economic system . That is correct .
i see what you are trying to say now .

Thanks for sharing.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Not really. And it’s not that complicated. Love God. Love Others.

Our actions towards others, regardless of their religious ideology, their race, social standing or education are motivated by reasons to “love” or “hate” our fellow man. Humans can justify all manner of actions towards others if they feel validated in their feelings….(in loving or hating). Both can have unwanted side effects if not controlled by the overriding power of reason.

God gives us those reasons in his word, which, if we did not have that to govern our emotions, could overwhelm us with feelings that may cause us to want to harm others (verbally or physically)….or even to attach ourselves to them when it is not reciprocated and they do not welcome our neediness.

Like it or not we are governed by our emotions. Unless we can get a grip on them, they will dictate our actions and lead us in the wrong direction. The Bible is God’s instruction manual…in it we find the true God….we find out what standards he approves of and how we are to treat our fellow humans…..so why is the world so divided? Isn’t it because people fail to know the God of the Bible and rather choose not to read his word for his guidance. They know a little, but not enough to actually implement the Bible’s counsel so that peaceful relations can exist between us. Self-control is a fruit of God’s spirit.

Even among those who say they follow God’s word, we still find very volatile people who do not keep their emotions in check and give vent to their feelings which are usually based on little knowledge……and what is the saying? “A little knowledge is a dangerous thing”….and ignorance unleashed as anger is a horrible trait in anyone….especially one who identifies as a disciple of Christ…..the one who showed us what self-control really means.

 

[Aunty Jane]

No one needs to or can study the Bible for 50 years BEFORE living those 50 years with a functional and defensible world view, a moral code.

Some are intellectual, like us, getting into all the weeds, but most are not. And that’s OK.

It is OK up to a point.….but when ignorance is a chosen position, it is not OK.
Daniel prophesied about our day….”the time of the end” and he indicated that at this juncture in history “knowledge would become abundant” (Dan 12:4)…..who can doubt that we live in times of unprecedented access to knowledge? No one even has to leave home to attain knowledge about a multitude of subjects. Ignorance is a choice now Wrangler…..and if we have the mental capacity to accommodate more knowledge than others, God expects us to avail ourselves of it…..we are each judged on our own ability, not someone else’s. God does not compare us to others…..he judges us individually. You can make excuses for yourself if you want to, but you can’t make excuses for others.

Even Christ said there are more important parts of the law. Matthew 23:23. Knowledge is not required for salvation - not comprehensive, encyclopedic knowledge, anyway.

Matt 23:23….
“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because you give the tenth of the mint and the dill and the cumin, but you have disregarded the weightier matters of the Law, namely, justice and mercy and faithfulness. These things it was necessary to do, yet not to disregard the other things.”

What is Jesus saying here?
Nit picking the letter of the law without regard for the weightier (more important) things, is what they were doing wrong. If we content ourselves with things that don’t matter, but ignore the things that do, we have become just like those Pharisees. How do we inform ourselves about the difference? By reading God’s word and understanding what it is saying in connection to everything else that it teaches.

There is one very firm requirement for salvation stated by Jesus…..
John 17:3…..
“This means everlasting life, their coming to know you, the only true God, and the one whom you sent, Jesus Christ.”
The only way to gain that fundamental knowledge of who God is, and who Jesus is, is from the Scriptures, provided to mankind to show us how to worship “the only true God” acceptably….because we “know” him.

If what we choose to believe is not supported by ALL that God’s word teaches, then it isn’t the truth….it’s just someone’s limited version of it. How will we know if we never read the guidebook that God provided? Isn’t that the very reason for its existence?

The Bible is not an idol and knowledge is not a dirty word…..
The Bible is the cake, providing the substance of our beliefs, but the icing is in the details, and in our understanding of them. The icing is what makes the cake more palatable and adds flavor to the basic product.
Most people who profess to be Christians eat little more than the crumbs because they have been taught that these crumbs, fed to them by their church leaders are enough….the clergy have eaten the cake for them. We have to love the cake enough to want to eat it for ourselves and if we have the capacity to eat the whole cake, including the icing, then we should…..savoring every mouthful.

 

[Wrangler]

It is OK up to a point.….but when ignorance is a chosen position, it is not OK.

There’s rational ignorance, which is perfectly OK.

 

[Wrangler]

Ignorance is a choice now Wrangler

Yup. Root word, ignore. There is too much information so we must rationally choose what to ignore.

Again, knowledge is not necessary for salvation.

 

[Aunty Jane]

There’s rational ignorance, which is perfectly OK.

Could you define that for me scripturally please…?
There is a difference between an ignorance that is not your fault, and one that is deliberately exercised. Which do you subscribe to?

Yup. Root word, ignore. There is too much information so we must rationally choose what to ignore.

How much is “too much information” when it comes to the worship of “the only true God”? (John 17:3)
What does rationality have to do with any search for knowledge? Is there only what we can comprehend? Yes…but who sets the comprehension level?

There is one truth set out in the Scriptures without which there could be no arguments as to who has the right view of the things written? If there was no scripture outlining the way God wants to be viewed and worshipped, then where would we start? Each to his own capacity for understanding. If we have the capacity, we cannot deliberately choose ignorance because the Bible might say things we disagree with…things that don’t fit in with our chosen view…..does that make your view correct and mine in error or the other way around? If you believe John 6:44 and 65, then you know it’s not just about you or me…..it is God who reveals his truth to whom HE chooses. So what about the others whose chosen view is unacceptable? Matt 7:21-23 answers that question…..we will be the last to know. By our own choices we will have sealed our own fate. We are telling God who we are, every moment.

Again, knowledge is not necessary for salvation.

And yet we cannot be saved without it. Basic Bible knowledge is simple enough for a child to comprehend, and the ones who cannot progress beyond the understanding of a child will be judged on the condition of their heart, but those who can and do go the whole nine yards, are rewarded with facets of the gem that children cannot fully appreciate. When you study the deeper things, there is the reward of drawing closer to the author of the words that should govern our lives….we get to know God in a way that others cannot.….but love is the same motivator. Love is not measured by how much we know, but what impact that knowledge has on our life in this world.

When it comes to the judgment, there will be no excuses accepted…..we have to answer to the judge, not each other.

 

[Wrangler]

Could you define that for me scripturally please…?

Yes. I already did multiple times. We walk by faith not sight. This means knowledge is NOT the way.