Where does the Pope get his authority?

[Marymog]

Are you up to it?

I'm busy today but Thursday I should have more time. Send me what you got, your thoughts, opinions on the matter and I will respond on Thursday.

Respectfully, Mary

 

[RedFan]

I'm busy today but Thursday I should have more time. Send me what you got, your thoughts, opinions on the matter and I will respond on Thursday.

Respectfully, Mary

Vatican I's Pastor Aeternus, Vatican I's Dogmatic Constitution Pastor aeternus, on the Church of Christ) | EWTN , is probably a good starting point for discussion.

 

[Augustin56]

Please re-post the video.

I'm not sure what you mean. Re-post it where?

 

[RedFan]

I'm not sure what you mean. Re-post it where?

Never mind, I found it.

 

[Jude Thaddeus]

Right. And the challenge of Roman Catholicism is to demonstrate that the Bishop of Rome is the only bishop who cannot use his power to deviate from the One Doctrine of the One Church that is teaching One Truth.

We don't need to. Jesus promised He would be with us always. You have to prove "us" excludes Peter and his successors.

The Protestant protests, with some justice, that this may not be established by definition (as the RCC has sometimes claimed), but must be shown independently.

You offer a challenge that has been hotly debated for 500 years???

Are you up to it?

In 25 words or less? You will have to prove exactly when the Bishop of Rome deviated from the One Doctrine of the One Church that is teaching One Truth. Name the official teaching as the Church understands it, not private distortions and anti-Catholic polemics. That means using Catholic definitions for theological terms, like papal infallibility, that anti-Catholics never get right. Name the council that was erroneous, and explain why, using historical context.
Are you up for it?

 

[RedFan]

Jesus promised He would be with us always. You have to prove "us" excludes Peter and his successors.

Actually he said it to all of the apostles as a group, not just to Peter. I don't claim that Peter and his successors were excluded any more than the rest of the apostles and their successors. Jesus is "with" them all -- yet bishops can fall into doctrinal error. The question being discussed is why the bishop of Rome cannot. That one is not my burden to prove!

 

[Jude Thaddeus]

Actually he said it to all of the apostles as a group, not just to Peter.

Jesus first gave The Keys to Peter as an individual, LATER gave The Keys to the apostles as a group. A clear indicator of pre-eminence.

I don't claim that Peter and his successors were excluded any more than the rest of the apostles and their successors. Jesus is "with" them all -- yet bishops can fall into doctrinal error. The question being discussed is why the bishop of Rome cannot. That one is not my burden to prove!

Short answer:
The Pope alone is NOT infallible. If Satan himself were to somehow become pope, he would do a lot of damage, but he could not teach error because the Holy Spirit wouldn't let him. The Pope teaches with God's promised protection, and he doesn't teach by himself.

The Biblical Church - Scripture Catholic

Contents1 Scripture1.1 I. Peter is the Rock on which the Church is Built1.2 II. Peter has the Keys of Authority over the Earthly Kingdom, the Church1.3 III. Peter’s Keys and Papal Succession1.4 IV. The Church is Infallible and Supernatural1.5 V. The Church is Visible and One1.6 VI. The Church is...

www.scripturecatholic.com

Long answer:

Infallibility

Infallibility, in theological usage, is the supernatural prerogative by which the Church of Christ is, by a special Divine assistance, preserved from liability to error in her definitive dogmatic teaching regarding matters of faith and morals.

www.catholic.com

The short answer above is off the top of my head. I'm no theologian. If you want more proofs, read Thomas Aquinas.

 

[RedFan]

Jesus first gave The Keys to Peter as an individual, LATER gave The Keys to the apostles as a group. A clear indicator of pre-eminence.

I just don't see a clear indicator of pre-eminence here -- but it hardly matters. There is nothing in this to indicate that Peter's successors were intended to have pre-eminence over the other apostles' successors.

 

[Augustin56]

I just don't see a clear indicator of pre-eminence here -- but it hardly matters. There is nothing in this to indicate that Peter's successors were intended to have pre-eminence over the other apostles' successors.

Actually, there is. The office that Peter first occupied was a dynastic office, i.e., it was intended to have successors. How do we know this? Because of the reference in Matt. 16:19 to "the keys." Jesus only gave the "keys" to Peter. The reference to keys is something every first century Jew would understand. Kings in the Middle East had second-in-commands (see Isaiah 22:22 for an example) who ruled the kingdom when the king was not available (at war, visiting other kingdoms, ill, etc.). Whatever the second-in-command ruled in the king's absence was upheld by the king upon his return. If this second-in-command died, another was appointed to his office. The symbol of this second-in-command was a large key or two (2-3 ft long) that he carried over his shoulder as a sign of his office and authority.

Also note that wherever the Apostles are listed, Peter is always listed first. That's not a coincidence.

 

[RedFan]

Actually, there is. The office that Peter first occupied was a dynastic office, i.e., it was intended to have successors. How do we know this? Because of the reference in Matt. 16:19 to "the keys." Jesus only gave the "keys" to Peter. The reference to keys is something every first century Jew would understand. Kings in the Middle East had second-in-commands (see Isaiah 22:22 for an example) who ruled the kingdom when the king was not available (at war, visiting other kingdoms, ill, etc.). Whatever the second-in-command ruled in the king's absence was upheld by the king upon his return. If this second-in-command died, another was appointed to his office. The symbol of this second-in-command was a large key or two (2-3 ft long) that he carried over his shoulder as a sign of his office and authority.

Also note that wherever the Apostles are listed, Peter is always listed first. That's not a coincidence.

Fair point. The logic is compelling even of the Scripture is less than explicit.

 

[Augustin56]

Fair point. The logic is compelling even of the Scripture is less than explicit.

Well, I think it was most probably clearer to first century Jews than it is to 21st century, English-speaking Western culture folks like us. Our culture and world view is far different than theirs was. We don't have kings, although I suspect some in the higher levels of our government, past and present, may have viewed themselsves as such. (Haha)

 

[amigo de christo]

While the following scripture does have a general lesson applicable to life, it is also specifically directed to the beast previously described as the enemy to Christianity by counterfeiting Jesus. This is the Antichrist, the very same Antichrist that the reformers identified as the papacy. The Pope in 1798 was taken into captivity, and the sword the papacy used through secular armies and the kings and princes of Europe was, after 1200 years of persecution and war, finally taken away. The Papacy's civil union with the state was finished... At least until 1928 anyway. Now, today, the beast is being healed. Who knows what tomorrow will bring? But prophecy informs us that the second beast, an Protestant image to the papacy, will wield the sword once again, so Mary, in the future union of church and state now beginning to materialise in America, there is hope for you yet that once again you will have the power and opportunity to be a good Catholic and once again fulfil your role as judge and executioner of heretics and unbelievers. Just remember though, that this will apply...

KJV Revelation 13:10
10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.

hey my friend i have a real simple question .
The title of this thread asks WHERE DOES the POPE get HIS AUTHORITY .
So lets examine that shall we my friend .
I well investigated how the pope got even its title . the title of his authority and of His name .
When i found it i nearly fell out of me own chair .
NOW me being me went to test this information to ensure it was true and not a fable .
And i even read it on their wikipedia .
IT EVEN SAID THIS . but then made excuse for why it cannot be so .
WHAT DO YOU SUPPOSE it was my friend . What did the title , the number of the title of the name
ADD UP TOO . it blew my mind and even wikepedia said it did too . SIX HUNDRED THREE SCORE and SIX .
DO THAT SOUND FAMILIAR to YOU . cause it do to ME .

 

[amigo de christo]

Yep, she did. See above.


Neither did I. What I said is that history suggests they were never allied with Rome.

I didn't suggest that either. Not did I suggest you said it. Stop putting words in my mouth.

have you ever heard the phrase , WHOSE DEADLY WOUND WAS HEALED .
GUESS who began this entire message of HEALING THE WOUND and WHAT IS THIS ALL ABOUT my friend .
I heard pope francis say it as well as kenneth copleand and now scores of others say it .
ITS ALL ABOUT bringing all denominations back into unity to be as one with ROME .
WHOSE DEADLY WOUND was healed . HEAL THE WOUND , HEAL THE WOUND , they all chant this
now . SOMETHING AINT RIGHT my friend and its not all they were and do chant .
THEY were hollering at kiaros , FIRE FROM HEAVEN , FIRE FROM HEAVEN , GREAT MIRCALES
HEALING THE WOUND .
ANd i saw .......................................
and he decieved them by the means of the miracles he did ...........................................SOMETHING is dead wrong .
A heavy delusion is merging them all now and it aint just the denominations , heck its the other religoins too .
ALL are coming to be as it was in the days of nimrod . THE PEOPLE IS ONE
and what is their motto today , WE AER ONE , WE ARE ONE , WE ARE ONE .
ITS MOVING IN FAST NOW MY FREIND to UNITE ALL not in the lambs book of life
to merge as one under a lie . AND TO COME AGAINST THE TRUE SAINTS WHO DID NOT CONFORM TO IT .
YOU WATCH and SEE .

 

[amigo de christo]

Fair point. The logic is compelling even of the Scripture is less than explicit.

then hear is another FAIR POINT .
when peter entered into the house of cornelious
and cornelious tried to KNEEL before HIM , TAKE NOTE READER , PETER did not say
HOLD UP , get me a chair and come kiss my ring . PETER actaully said GET UP , I AM JUST A MAN LIKE YOU .
and what did JESUS warn the apostels about . BEWARE of men who dress up in long clothing
make broad boarders , love to be called titles
And what do the popes and others do , DRESS UP , SIT on a chair , have folks kiss a ring
and give themselves names like MOST HOLY FATHER , MOST HOLY REVERAND .
DIDNT JESUS SAY YOUR FATHER IS IN HEAVEN and you all are BRETHREN etc . I would not sit under
a one of them . not a one . Just a real friendly reminder .

 

[amigo de christo]

Call no man Father , for your FATHER IS IN HEAVEN , you are brethren .
I never seemed to see one apostel call peter FATHER and the others brethren either . THEY WERE ALL EQUALS .
THIS is nothing more than man made traidtions by men who LOVED to have the pre emience , the recognition
and etc . They even call themselves MOST HOLY FATHER . THAT SHOULD BE THE TITLE OF GOD and not of man . this
instituion DUPED ITS PEOPLES BIG TIME .

 

[Titus]

Where does the pope get his authority?


He has none!
Catholics teach the pope is the HEAD of the Lords church.

Bible teaches Jesus is the HEAD of the Lords church which is His body,

Colossians 1:18,
- and Christ is the  Head of the body the church who is the beginning the firstborn from the dead that in all things He might have the PREEMINENCE

Notice Jesus is Head not the pope!!!

Notice Jesus' church is the body and that body is ONE.
ONE church which eliminates ALL denominations/divisions

Ephesians 4:4,
- There is ONE  body and One Spirit even as ye are called in One hope of your calling

Since theres ONE Church/body

There is ONE Head of that body.

Two Heads on One body is a MONSTER!!!

All authority is given to the Head of the church.

How much authority does that leave the pope?
Answer: None

Matthew 28:18-20,
- And Jesus came and spake unto them saying,
ALL AUTHORITY is given Me in heaven and ON EARTH

 

[Titus]

Call no man Father , for your FATHER IS IN HEAVEN , you are brethren .
I never seemed to see one apostel call peter FATHER and the others brethren either . THEY WERE ALL EQUALS .
THIS is nothing more than man made traidtions by men who LOVED to have the pre emience , the recognition
and etc . They even call themselves MOST HOLY FATHER . THAT SHOULD BE THE TITLE OF GOD and not of man . this
instituion DUPED ITS PEOPLES BIG TIME .

Love you friend

 

[Jude Thaddeus]

 

[Jude Thaddeus]

Fair point. The logic is compelling even of the Scripture is less than explicit.

Scripture is logically compelling that Peter is leader of the Apostles on earth in many instances. That's easy to establish. Jesus is head of the Church in heaven and earth. It's both. It's not a dichotomy. Jesus gives HIS AUTHORITY to His Church on earth.
Matthew 28:18-20,
18 And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth.
19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
20 teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.”

therefore meaning: under these circumstances something either is so or becomes so STRONGS NT 686: ἄρα (1)
or
under the circumstance that I have ALL AUTHORITY, I am giving you My authority to

• make disciples of all the nations,
• baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
• teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you;

 

[RedFan]

Scripture is logically compelling that Peter is leader of the Apostles on earth in many instances. That's easy to establish. Jesus is head of the Church in heaven and earth. It's both. It's not a dichotomy. Jesus gives HIS AUTHORITY to His Church on earth.
Matthew 28:18-20,
18 And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth.
19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
20 teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.”

therefore meaning: under these circumstances something either is so or becomes so STRONGS NT 686: ἄρα (1)
or
under the circumstance that I have ALL AUTHORITY, I am giving you My authority to

• make disciples of all the nations,
• baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
• teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you;

View attachment 45110

I'm not seeing what this has to do with Peter's primacy, much less that of his successors.