The Case for Eternal Security

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Behold

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I have already explained that God imo/ testimony initially brought me to believe in Jesus...”

'Again, this is confused....



= "God brought me to believe"..

HOW?

Im not asking you if God's Spirit, birthed your Spirit, as that is to be born again...

What im asking is....

How did you come to start thinking about Jesus, in that moment?

As the "brightframe" concept is....>"i was not thinking about Jesus, and then suddenly God caused me to think about Jesus and Believe".,
 

Ritajanice

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'Again, this is confused....



= "God brought me to believe"..

HOW?

Im not asking you if God's Spirit, birthed your Spirit, as that is to be born again...

What im asking is....

How did you come to start thinking about Jesus, in that moment?

As the "brightframe" concept is....>"i was not thinking about Jesus, and then suddenly God caused me to think about Jesus and Believe".,
How!....because he chose me and predestined me to become Born Again that is how...he chose me...

I’m sorry Behold...I can’t believe like “ you” seem to want me to believe....you believe you chose to be Born Again, that is not how God says we are Born Again..so, here I am falling into the trap of batting the ball back and forth.

Ps...thinking about Jesus came completely out of the blue...why because I came to Jesus by the will of the Father, not my will..Gods will @Behold xx

It was all God’s doing...nothing from my part, expect the searching of my heart on how I had made a terrible mess of my life...he drew me to himself.

He’s an Amazing God!!..NEVER underestimate his POWER!
 

APAK

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I don't need to search. I know that there is no guarnatee of salvation in one's lifetime.
Your explanation of Matt 24:40-51 contradicts what the verse says, This is a servant of the Master who is faithful, BUT becomes unfaithful. He does not repent, thus will be cast with the unbelievers. If he was never a believer, thus an unbeliever, he cannot be cast into a place in which he already exists.
RG: back again....

No, I really do not think so at all. In Matthew 24:45 Jesus first describes what is a wise (and faithful) servant (saved one) with a question.

Jesus Describes the Wise Servant ....
(Mat 24:45) Who then is the faithful and wise servant, whom his lord has set over his household to give them their food in due time?
(Mat 24:46) Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he comes shall find so doing.
(Mat 24:47) Truly I say to you, that he will set him over all that he has.
(Mat 24:48) But if that evil servant shall say in his heart: My lord’s coming is delayed,
(Mat 24:49) and shall begin to beat his fellow-servants and shall eat and drink with the drunkards,
(Mat 24:50) the lord of that servant shall come in a day when he does not expect him and in an hour when he does not know,
(Mat 24:51) and will cut him in pieces and put him with the hypocrites. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Jesus is not saying that there is a faithful or unfaithful servant of the master as of yet, at all. It is a parable about the one who will have salvation and the other who will not. The condition of the heart and faith in his master or lord is all important, and reflected in the mind and ones actions.

And the one who is saved in written in verses 45b -47 and the one found to be a wicked servant of the master is found in verses 48-51

The key to faithfulness is the condition of the heart, of faith given by the Spirit or not at all. Then one goes it alone.

And let me post again what I wrote in #189..
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"And Matt 24:40-51 is all about those who were saved and doing in faith spiritual works of the Spirit, and those who deliberately put off their call to salvation. They thought they could continue in sin and evil works in their carnal natural fallen lifestyle and avoid judgement as they did not believe they would be judged.

The door to their salvation was closed by God. He called and they were never chosen. They were left outside of the Kingdom. They had the opportunity to open their heart to God and they refused to believe in him, his gospel and his Son for salvation and the coming judgment. And so these were placed with the other hypocrites or unbelievers."
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Now to bring my many thoughts on this thread and topic to together RG, let me summarize what I have experienced for several decades now.

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There are several popular doctrines for personal salvation whereby the majority of their adherents have one common striking component; they are not sure if they possess the spirit of God or not. They do not sense the presence of God in their life or walk. And therefore they doubt many words of God for salvation, wholesale. And are also apt to discount any scripture or any believers’ testimony assuring them of personal salvation. These are the Once Saved Not always Saved (OSNOS) group of believers. They sit on the spiritual fence for salvation, and wait, or try to be good, for what to happen? Is there hope of salvation for their lives?

No, if one is dedicated and firmly entrenched into this OSNOS idea, then these were never being saved in the first place where God presided over his proceedings for their salvation, according to scripture. The lack of right faith given by God is essential for being saved. And only God can provide this saving faith to those he calls and chooses.

These are the five common non-saving formulas held by many:

The ‘Roman Catholic’ version: This entails having a weekly or periodic spiritual checkup and tune-up. A cyclical dose of repentance to salvation is performed by a priest at the confession box. This repetitive confession of sins does not bring a person to true repentance let alone being saved to redemption. In fact, it encourages the opposite. I guess then the Spirit must ‘jo-jo’ and is required to jump out of the person before ‘confession.’ And the Spirit jumps back into them after the tune-up and cleansing session. This cycle tries to ensure Salvation although this method has no assurance of salvation before death. No one can be free from sin, therefore repetitive confession of sin and repentance gives some spiritual and psychological relief and not any true hope.

The ‘Just-in-time and no time for more sin’ Salvation version: If one ensures they are ‘clean’ of sin by a final act of repentance, and pray that they believe in Christ on one’s death bed, then Salvation is guaranteed because there is no time to commit any more sins. This version is also incorporated as part of the Catholic version with its ‘last rites’ ritual performed by a priest as he presents a holy appearance with words of assurance as he hovers around the death bed; holding a bible in one hand and performing the physical Trinity formula in the other hand.

The ‘Grace only’ version: Once the rebirth is believed to be started and the new spirit is initiated, there is no need to cooperate with this new spirit and walk in Christ. Grace of God, the reason for their salvation trumps everything. They think that this grace of God is the power of God to sustain their salvation. These believers should consider one. The grace given is the method of delivery by God only, and that their gift of faith given by God is an obedient faith that is present be acted upon and realized in their ‘walk.’

The ‘fight for good works to Salvation’ version: Using our own will with acts of self-led good works to please and serve God and Christ. This is also incorporated to some degree in the Catholic religion.

The ‘only if we (try hard) and remain and continue in faith’ to not fall away version: This is similar to the version 4. Salvation. There is no guarantee of permanence of this type of salvation. And it is not genuine salvation. It depends on the so-called ‘free’ will of the person to stay in the ‘being saved’ mode or not, and outside or internal influences or changes in mind can perturb their walk and they will veer off and completely become unsaved, somehow. They can however come back if their free will wants to come back to Christ again. Scripture says this is impossible.
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I hope this helps you understand how I currently see this topic....thanks for listening RG
 

Ritajanice

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As the "brightframe" concept is....>"i was not thinking about Jesus, and then suddenly God caused me to think about Jesus and Believe".,
That’s correct I agree with @brightfame52 ..100% agree.

That’s exactly how it was for me...why, because we were chosen and predestined to be made and are being made into the image of Jesus,xx

We were chosen for his purpose and his plan...to give God all the Glory...and to preach the mighty power of Gods Spirit...my testimony and belief.
 

Behold

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you believe you chose to be Born Again,

What i chose to do, was Believe in Jesus by Faith.

I did not tell you and have never told you or posted that..... "I choose to be born again".

See, I was a sinner, needing to be saved, and i understood the Gospel...... and went to Jesus by Faith.

Then....God did this for me., as He does it for everyone.. = "FAITH, is counted by God, as Righteousness".

"justification by faith"..

So, once i gave God MY FAITH, in Jesus, .. God gave me HIS>.. "Gift of Salvation" and "Gift of Righteousness"..

And being born again, is to have received it..
 

Ritajanice

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What i chose to do, was Believe in Jesus by Faith.

I did not tell you and have never told you or posted that..... "I choose to be born again".

See, I was a sinner, needing to be saved, and i understood the Gospel...... and went to Jesus by Faith.

Then....God did this for me., as He does it for everyone.. = "FAITH, is counted by God, as Righteousness".

"justification by faith"..

So, once i gave God MY FAITH, in Jesus, .. God gave me HIS>.. "Gift of Salvation" and "Gift of Righteousness"..

And being born again, is to have received it..
That’s you bringing yourself to God....I don’t understand any of your testimony, neither do I have to, it’s none of my business and have no more desire to question you over it.
 

Dan Clarkston

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There is a strong case to be made on either side.


To make a case for eternal security one must ignore numerous scriptures that warn Christians of the very real possibility that they can be rejected by the Lord

That's what eternal security proponents do is the ignore or try to explain away God's warnings as though somethings the Lord says in His Word are untrue which is their position otherwise their osas doctrine falls apart..



Even the term OSAS is used as a negative term.


It's false doctrine so it is very negative
 

Ritajanice

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And then from that THINKING you chose to BELIEVE.

God caused the Thinking, but the choice to believe was yours.
to believe initially came from God, he was the one who brought Jesus into my mind, just as God had planned it to happen.

Then I was gifted the faith to believe, a manifestation of the Spirit, that faith has grown and grown and continues to grow, because the seed was planted by the Living word of God,xx
 

Behold

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No it’s not, it’s the Living word of God..so, we will agree to disagree...xx

“You” believe it to be Calvin hyper....I don’t.

Calvin teaches that you are predestined to be born again.

And the issue with that lie, is that it makes a liar out of God.

Why?

Because for God to choose you, and not your neighbors.

What is the basis?

You are a sinner, and they are the SAME as you.

Why choose you, or me.... and not them, when "all have sinned" and "there is NONE righteous=, no not ONE".

So, for God to make the EXCEPTION for you or me, over THEM..... is to to reject His own word.

A.) """"God is NO RESPECTER of Persons"""= (anyone) (a human being).

So, Calvin teaches that God IS a respecter of SOME ONLY....., by teaching that God chose only SOME to be saved< but refused others...

And God does not do that..

What God did, is Put His Son on a Tree for "the World", and "all who believe".. John 3:16, which is a verse that Calvin denies.

Calvinism.... is teaching the lie that GOD RESPECTED SOME.....above others.... and CAUSED only THOSE to believe.
 

Ritajanice

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Calvin teaches that you are predestined to be born again.

And the issue with that lie, is that it makes a liar out of God.

Why?

Because for God to choose you, and not your neighbors.

What is the basis?

You are a sinner, and they are the SAME as you.

Why choose you, or me.... and not them, when "all have sinned" and "there is NONE righteous=, no not ONE".

So, for God to make the EXCEPTION for you or me, over THEM..... is to to reject His own word.

A.) """"God is NO RESPECTER of Persons"""= (anyone) (a human being).

So, Calvin teaches that God IS a respecter of SOME ONLY....., by teaching that God chose only SOME to be saved< but refused others...

And God does not do that..

What God did, is Put His Son on a Tree for "the World", and "all who believe".. John 3:16, which is a verse that Calvin denies.

Calvinism.... is teaching the lie that GOD RESPECTED SOME.....above others.... and CAUSED only THOSE to believe.
Listen...I believe I was chosen and predestined...I said no such thing about my neighbours..

I was chosen and predestined to become Born Of The Spirit and I am being made into the image of Jesus...how am I being made into his image?xx

How would I know I am being made into Jesus image?
 

Ritajanice

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I gave my Faith to God., becasue God showed me that Jesus is the only way to Him. John 14:6

THE CROSS is showing the entire world this......>John 3:16.........for the last 2000 yrs.
That is your testimony and belief.

Which I respect.

I have also posted my testimony and belief....xx
 

Behold

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to believe initially came from God, he was the one who brought Jesus into my mind,

That is God revealing Jesus to you.

"faith comes by HEARING"...

You then made a decision.. to believe.

You could have been this one..

= "If we sin willfully" "if we do despite to the spirit of Grace". "if we trod underfoot the blood of Jesus"..

= "then there remains no more sacrifice for your sin".


Why not?

Because you willfully rejected what you knew to believe., after you have "tasted the heavenly Gift".

What is that ?
That is the : "God showed me it was true"...

And people who wont BELIEVE it.... chose it.

You believed it..
 

Ritajanice

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That is God revealing Jesus to you.

"faith comes by HEARING"...

You then made a decision.. to believe.

You could have been this one..

= "If we sin willfully" "if we do despite to the spirit of Grace". "if we trod underfoot the blood of Jesus"..

= "then there remains no more sacrifice for your sin".


Why not?

Because you willfully rejected what you knew to believe., after you have "tasted the heavenly Gift".

What is that ?
That is the : "God showed me it was true"...

And people who wont BELIEVE it.... chose it.

You believed it..
No....I’ve already explained.

That’s your POV on my becoming to believe in Jesus.xx
 

Behold

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Listen...I believe I was chosen and predestined...I said no such thing about my neighbours..


Are there unbelievers in your family?

Are there unbelievers in England?

Are there unbelievers in this world for the last 2000 yrs, who are now in Hell?

Why would God do that to them? = Why would God predestine them to NOT become a Christian?

Why would God send His Son to be massacred on a Cross for only SOME in this World?

Why would God who "so loved the.... WORLD... that He Gave Jesus".... only offer Him to some ??/


Welcome to : Calvinism

Its a lie of the devil.
 

Ritajanice

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Are there unbelievers in your family?

Are there unbelievers in England?

Are there unbelievers in this world for the last 2000 yrs, who are now in Hell?

Why would God do that to them? = Why would God predestine them to NOT become a Christian?

Why would God send His Son to be massacred on a Cross for only SOME in this World?

Why would God who "so loved the.... WORLD... that He Gave Jesus".... only offer Him to some ??/


Welcome to : Calvinism

Its a lie of the devil.
Ok...xxx