The Case for Eternal Security

[Behold]

The Parable of the Sower is not about salvation. It is about fruitfulness. Read the punchline. (vs 22-23)


19 When anyone hears the message about the kingdom and does not understand it,


/

vs 19 is the "punchline".

As the sower is sowing into the heart, and those who believe it now belong to the """"KINGDOM..""""

That is a BELIEVER, born again..

So, its the SEED that is bearing the Fruit.. as vs 24, shows it from another angle.

24 Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The '"""""kingdom of heaven""""" is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field:

Now, the "seed of the word" sown into the heart of a Believer will produce Salvation. that is also referred to spiritually as "the washing of water by the WORD"..

And Jesus is the Living water, who is the Spirit and we are born again by the Holy Spirit.


So, its all connected to the Seed of the Word that produces.... , and the Spirit that causes... and Faith that receives it, and is received by God.

And what is that?

That is the GOSPEL being given and Believed.

And what is the Gospel?

A.) THE Preaching of THE Cross.

 

[Ritajanice]

What do you make of this?

2 Corinthians 1:21-22 NIV
Now it is God who makes both us and you stand firm in Christ. He anointed us,
22 set his seal of ownership on us, and put his Spirit in our hearts as a deposit,
guaranteeing what is to come.

/ cc: @Ritajanice

As you well know, I would argue my case until the cows come home at one time,hehehe,xx

If that member believes what he believes, I’m not going to make the mistake again of batting that darn ball back and forth.

I know in my spirit, that I have been “ Born Again “ of imperishable/ incorruptible seed....that liveth and abideth forever....that is the Living word of God, who NEVER lies...NEVER.

From day one I knew that, because it was delivered by the “ Living “word of God, when he birthed me in the Spirit...Spirit gives birth to spirit......it’s fine reading the written word of God....to become Born Again of Gods seed....then you must receive his “ Living “ word into your heart, that’s where his word penetrates, your heart....not ones head.

My POV ,testimony and belief,xx

 

[simplefaith1]

Are you not making our own commitment the source of our salvation?

We cannot by an act of our own will undo what only God could do in the first place.
Even in the case of Reprobation, it is God's choice, not ours. And his aim is to return the lost sheep to the fold.
He is, after all, the Good Shepherd.

/

Well if you accept the bible speaks of eternal security for some and not others, then it must be obvious two different types of people are being written about. If we do not accept the bible as one cohesive whole we will not understand the truth. If people make a shallow/half hearted commitment and then get placed ''officially'' in a saved state it is obvious to me in the time of testing they will fall away. Sometimes we should not just randomly quote the letter but consider the actions/thoughts/motives of those who make a commitment

 

[Behold]

Even in the case of Reprobation, it is God's choice,

/

More of Calvin's nonsense.

Here is what all have become....equally..

"ALL have sinned", and "None are righteous, no not one".

ALL are separated from God by "Sin", and Jesus came into the world to SAVE Sinners".

= ALL of us.

But not all will BELIEVE and that is based on "as many as will"......not as many as God forces.

God would not require us to believe if God was forcing it to happen.,

 

[Wrangler]

There is a strong case to be made on either side.
I am one of few who recognize that.

You do not seem to recognize:

1. there is a strong case against OSAS.
2. there is no evidence for OSAS.

The only evidence for eternal security is in the context of our ongoing faithfulness. For sure, we have that. So called evidence for OSAS, is a contradiction in terms, when you have the explicit burden to remain faithful and productive (as a true measure of our faith). Lip service will not breach the gates of heaven!

Adonai is with you, as long as you are with him
2 Chronicles 15:2 (CJB)

NOTE: There is no guarantee when you deliberately sin after knowing the truth. That's why such verses as above exist. They affirm the conditional nature of our fate. Such verses do not read:

• Christ will remain in you even if you do not remain in him.
• Adonai is with you even if you are not with him.
• Salt will be kept even if it loses its flavor.
• Branches will not be burned even if they do not produce fruit.
• Even If we deliberately continue to sin after receiving the knowledge of the truth, Christ's sacrifice still covers our petulant ass.

If OSAS were true such verses revealing the conditional nature of our fate would not exist. But there are many!

 

[Ritajanice]

A Born Again doesn’t continue to sin as they have been Born Again of imperishable/ incorruptible seed....that is Gods written word, which is delivered to our heart by his “ Living “ Spirit.

Reading a Bible does not save anyone...we must receive that Living Spiritual rebirth...imo, POV..xx

 

[Behold]

.then you must receive his “ Living “ word into your heart,

Calvin teaches that you dont choose to RECEIVE....., but that God causes it no matter what..

Paul teaches that God knew, before you were born.., .that you would trust in Christ. (/God's foreknowledge)

Calvin teaches that "God caused you to trust" and you didn't have a choice...."Pre-destined".


So, it can't be both.....

Somebody is lying., as those Dots will never connect.
They can't, as one is denying Free will and one is allowing for you to choose by Free will.

 

[Ritajanice]

Calvin teaches that you dont choose to RECEIVE....., but that God causes it no matter what..

Yes, I understand I think what you are saying....let me think more on this...xx

 

[Behold]

Yes, I understand I think what you are saying....let me think more on this...xx

Think on this., @Ritajanice

Should someone who teaches on a "christian forum" that you are going to hell, because you are a Christian....born again..

Should they be allowed to stay here and continue to try deceive people/ ??

So, you "think on that one, also"...

And one more for you..

Right now.
This very second, and until you die.
Is God making you believe in Jesus, or are you choosing to believe?

hint.... (dont vote for Calvinism, as its of the Devil)...

 

[Wrangler]

You do not seem to recognize:

1. there is a strong case against OSAS.
2. there is no evidence for OSAS.

The only evidence for eternal security is in the context of our ongoing faithfulness. For sure, we have that. So called evidence for OSAS, is a contradiction in terms, when you have the explicit burden to remain faithful and productive (as a true measure of our faith). Lip service will not breach the gates of heaven!

Adonai is with you, as long as you are with him
2 Chronicles 15:2 (CJB)

NOTE: There is no guarantee when you deliberately sin after knowing the truth. That's why such verses as above exist. They affirm the conditional nature of our fate. Such verses do not read:

• Christ will remain in you even if you do not remain in him.
• Adonai is with you even if you are not with him.
• Salt will be kept even if it loses its flavor.
• Branches will not be burned even if they do not produce fruit.
• Even If we deliberately continue to sin after receiving the knowledge of the truth, Christ's sacrifice still covers our petulant ass.

If OSAS were true such verses revealing the conditional nature of our fate would not exist. But there are many!

I did not read in today's devotional reading the whole verse. The last part is as strong a proof text against OSAS as one could imagine.

if you abandon him (Adonai), he will abandon you!
2 Chronicles 15:2 (CJB, emphasis added)

 

[Behold]

I did not read in today's devotional reading the whole verse. The last part is as strong a proof text against OSAS as one could imagine.

OSAS is a religious cult that rejects the Grace of God, and has redefined it (subverted it).....as "license to Sin". "Cheap Grace".

Avoid this cult.

 

[Ritajanice]

Right now.
This very second, and until you die.
Is God making you believe in Jesus, or are you choosing to believe?

I can answer this question straight away.

I can believe in Jesus because I have the Living witness, residing in my spirit..the Holy Spirit.

No way could I believe in Jesus without his witness , the Holy Spirit.

He testifies with my spirit all day every day Gods truth,as I’ve been Born Again of imperishable/ incorruptible seed,xx

 

[Ritajanice]

Think on this., @Ritajanice

Should someone who teaches on a "christian forum" that you are going to hell, because you are a Christian....born again..

Should they be allowed to stay here and continue to try deceive people/ ??

Did you read my earlier post, Steven has already explained himself on this hell matter,, please scroll up, xx

 

[Behold]

I can believe in Jesus because I have the Living witness, residing in my spirit..the Holy Spirit.

The witness of the Spirit is the initial call of God that led you to believe the TRUTH about Jesus...... and that is not the same as God doing the believing for you.

YOU are the Believer, ever since you first believed.

Do you still believe?

That is YOU doing that, not God doing that for you.

Its YOUR Heart... YOUR Mind and YOUR Faith...

 

[Behold]

Did you read my earlier post, Steven has already explained himself on this hell matter,, please scroll up, xx

I read it.

He is defining going to Hell, as the Judgement Seat of Christ...

"wood hay stubble"..

So, is that Hell?

See, even if he was just "giving the brother a hard time" he then redefined "hell" as the judgment seat of Christ.

Is this any better, as that happens in Heaven...

 

[Lambano]

I read it.

He is defining going to Hell, as the Judgement Seat of Christ...

"wood hay stubble"..

So, is that Hell?

See, even if he was just "giving the brother a hard time" he then redefined "hell" as the judgment seat of Christ.

Is this any better, as that happens in Heaven...

My understanding of what @St. SteVen is advocating is what our Catholic brothers and sisters would call "Purgatory". I'll let him address that directly.

 

[Ritajanice]

The witness of the Spirit is the initial call of God that led you to believe the TRUTH about Jesus...... and that is not the same as God doing the believing for you.

YOU are the Believer, ever since you first believed.

Do you still believe?

That is YOU doing that, not God doing that for you.

Its YOUR Heart... YOUR Mind and YOUR Faith...

The witness of the Holy Spirit resides in my heart, he’s in there right now, Living in my spirit?

I am a believer by the witness of the Holy Spirit...I was brought by God to initially believe....then he gifted me the faith to believe in his Son, when he Spiritually gave birth to my spirit, “ Spirit gives birth to spirit?

I cannot believe once again, without God’s witness residing/ living in my heart and testifying Gods truth ,...Gods truth is delivered to our spirit by his Spirit...it’s a Living spiritual relationship we have with our father ,via his Spirit.

Which can never perish or die as we have been Born Again of imperishable seed.....that is Gods “ Living “ word, which manifest in our heart/ spirit...xx

 

[Ritajanice]

I read it.

He is defining going to Hell, as the Judgement Seat of Christ...

"wood hay stubble"..

So, is that Hell?

See, even if he was just "giving the brother a hard time" he then redefined "hell" as the judgment seat of Christ.

Is this any better, as that happens in Heaven...

Then you are understanding his post very differently to the way I understand it....if you think he shouldn’t be here, then report his post.

The mods are in charge ,we aren’t, therefore respect their decision....I tell you, I couldn’t do the job they do....I’ve seen critical posts about them, not nice....I couldn’t do their job....I’d probably have a breakdown, dealing with all US LOT....who need baby sitting...at our age!!!

Remember Jesus was very patient and long suffering....he tolerated much!!!

Thank God, so do the mods...

 

[Behold]

...then he gifted me the faith to believe in his Son, when he Spiritually gave birth to my spirit,

Are you actually saying that your faith came..... AS you were being born again,.... and that you didnt give God your faith in Christ first, and then He gave you the new birth?

See, BrightFrame teaches that you are born gain, and then you believe in Jesus

Like this.,,

"One day i was painting a wall and WHAM.... suddenly i believed in JESUS, from out of nowhere.... and THEN i gave God my Faith, that i now HAD in Christ, whom i never even thought about before".....

Im trying to understand if you are teaching that, or not.

Can you be clear?

 

[Ritajanice]

Are you actually saying that your faith came..... AS you were being born again,.... and that you didnt give God your faith in Christ first, and then He gave you the new birth?

See, BrightFrame teaches that you are born gain, and then you believe in Jesus

Im trying to understand if you are teaching that, or not.

Can you be clear?

I have already explained that God imo/ testimony initially brought me to believe in Jesus...” I believed first” ...then yes, he gifted me the Faith to believe in his Son, by birthing my spirit into his, Spirit gives birth to spirit .....

Is that clear enough now?xx

Ps..I guess that was my faith was it when I first believed?... @Behold xx

I’m starting to understand a bit more I believe, God saw my faith in Jesus and then gave me the faith to believe in the Spirit?...in other words made me Born Again...