The reason for gathering at Armageddon ?

[Douggg]

that is not how I read the latter chapters of Revelation.
I think your understanding bounces off Franscisco Ribera's interpretation....the champion of the counter reformation

Where are you reading about the resurrected wicked in Revelation besides Revelation 20:12-15 ?

 

[quietthinker]

Where are you reading about the resurrected wicked in Revelation besides Revelation 20:12-15 ?

On the road at the moment. Will reply later in the day

 

[Jay Ross]

The beast, the kings of the earth, and Armageddon are in Revelation 16:13-16....

Revelation 16:
13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.

14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.

15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.

16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.

Then the beast and the kings of the earth and their armies are in Revelation 19:19...

19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.

So, it is obvious that it is the same participants in Revelation 16:13-16 as is in Revelation 19:19, at Jesus's Second Coming.

Armageddon takes place at Jesus's Second Coming. Which is before the beginning of the millennium.

the Ezekiel 38-39 Gog/Magog event (followed by 7 years verses 9-10 )
the great tribulation (the last 1335 days of those 7 years)
the Armageddon event (verses 17-20)
the Second Coming of Jesus (verses 21-29, to end the great tribulation)
the 1000 year millennium (the 1000 year reign of Jesus, on this present earth, Revelation 20:4)
Satan's short period to once again deceive the nations (Revelation 20:7-10)




2300 years ? The text of Daniel 8:14 says 2300 days.

13 Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?

14 And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.

Thank you for presenting your understanding, that the kings of the earth could very well be the judged kings at Armageddon who also rose up out of the bottomless pit. However, the context of Rev 19:19 is not clear as to who those kings of the earth might be.

Now since my arrangement of the order of your listed events was very different to your arrangement of that list, we will arrive at very different conclusions.

I am very comfortable with the way I have arranged your list of events. I am sure that there are important events that have also been omitted.

Since I will probably not be around in 20 years' time, my placement of the Armageddon Judgement event first I will nor see if my order will be correct, however I am confident that it is.

 

[Douggg]

Thank you for presenting your understanding, that the kings of the earth could very well be the judged kings at Armageddon who also rose up out of the bottomless pit. However, the context of Rev 19:19 is not clear as to who those kings of the earth might be.

While we don't who all of the kings of the earth are in Revelation 19:19 and Revelation 16:13-16, we can know that ten of those kings will the ten horn kings, who align themselves with the beast-king.

The reason they assemble their armies at Armageddon in the first place is to make war on Jesus - because they will be alarmed, terrified, by the sign of the Son of Man in heaven appearing (Matthew 24:30a). They will see Jesus in heaven after the universe, cosmos, parts , rolls aside like a scroll in the sixth seal in Revelation 6:12-17. Read those verses and you see what I mean.

Jesus will appear, sickle in hand (Revelation 14:140, His intentions clear.

 

[Douggg]

Since I will probably not be around in 20 years' time, my placement of the Armageddon Judgement event first I will nor see if my order will be correct, however I am confident that it is.

Jay, in my view, the event of Gog/Magog will begin before the end of 2030. And Armageddon 7 years later. But the hope is for Christians is not to have to go through the great tribulation that precedes Armageddon, by being taken in the rapture/resurrection event.

The rapture/resurrection could happen any time.

It is true, that none of us are guaranteed tomorrow in our current bodies. So, if any one of us passes away before the rapture/resurrection - as Christians, we assured of the redemption of our bodies into eternal life, everlasting bodies will take place in the rapture/resurrection event, regardless.

I try to emphasize the positive.

 

[Truth7t7]

Your question is a red herring.

You made the claim (All Israel Will Be Saved)

I simply asked who is this "Israel" you claim will be saved, it appears that you run from the very simple question, Why?

 

[Jay Ross]

You made the claim (All Israel Will Be Saved)

I simply asked who is this "Israel" you claim will be saved, it appears that you run from the very simple question, Why?

Romans 11:25b-26. Take your inquiry up with the Apostle Paul as I was only quoting him.

 

[Truth7t7]

Romans 11:25b-26. Take your inquiry up with the Apostle Paul as I was only quoting him.

Ok, your talking about "The Elect Church", because National Israel won't obtain salvation, only God's elect will

Romans 11:7-8KJV
7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.
8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear;) unto this day.

 

[Douggg]

You made the claim (All Israel Will Be Saved)

I simply asked who is this "Israel" you claim will be saved, it appears that you run from the very simple question, Why?

I don't think anyone can put a number on all Israel will be saved.

Certainly the beast-king and the false-prophet will not be saved and both will be Jews.

All Israel will be saved is talking about the Jews going through the great tribulation will turn to Jesus in the middle of the seven years. They turn to Jesus and the gospel of salvation in Revelation 12:!0.

 

[Jay Ross]

Ok, your talking about "The Elect Church", because National Israel won't obtain salvation, only God's elect will

Romans 11:7-8KJV
7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.
8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear;) unto this day.

That unfortunately is your understanding of what Paul wrote. My understanding of the context of these verses is that Paul was talking about the Israelites being saved around the very beginning of the seventh age. You have assumed a very different context to the one Paul wrote.

Goodbye

 

[quietthinker]

Where are you reading about the resurrected wicked in Revelation besides Revelation 20:12-15 ?

Rev.19:17-21, implies it and Rev.20:7-10 and Rev.20:5 reference it

 

[Douggg]

Rev.19:17-21, implies it and Rev.20:7-10

I don't see anything in those verses that implies the wicked are resurrected.

and Rev.20:5 reference it

Revelation 20:5 references the rest of the dead - i.e. everyone who was not a martyred great tribulation - would be not resurrected until the thousand years are finished.

In Revelation 20:12-13 details it. Revelation 20:12-13 is after the destruction of the people who try to destroy them in the camp of the saints (Israel) in Revelation 20:8-9. And after Revelation 20:10, Satan cast into the lake of fire.

In these verse are the resurrection of the wicked...

Revelation 20:
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

 

[quietthinker]

I don't see anything in those verses that implies the wicked are resurrected.


Revelation 20:5 references the rest of the dead - i.e. everyone who was not a martyred great tribulation - would be not resurrected until the thousand years are finished.

In Revelation 20:12-13 details it. Revelation 20:12-13 is after the destruction of the people who try to destroy them in the camp of the saints (Israel) in Revelation 20:8-9. And after Revelation 20:10, Satan cast into the lake of fire.

In these verse are the resurrection of the wicked...

Revelation 20:
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

Respectfully Douggg, you do not see it because your paradigm won't allow it. Unless you are prepared to question your paradigm you wont see it.
The questioning of a paradigm starts with the realisation that Jesus is the key. What I mean by that is his reality....and you might ask yourself, what is his reality as opposed to the Devil's reality....whadyathunk?

If the realisation that Jesus is the key is deemed as non critical one wont know how to use it and one is left behind the eight ball from the outset.....and I will also ask you, are you familiar with Fransisco Ribera; what he achieved or perhaps, pulled off, might be a better expression?

 

[Ronald Nolette]

To make war on Jesus at His Second Coming ? Or something else ? My view is to make war on Jesus at His Second Coming, based on Revelation 19:19

In Revelation 16:
13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.

14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.

15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.

16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.

In Revelation 19:19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.

You have done extraordinarily well here. You just let gods Word speak for itself without adding or taking away or spiritualizing anything! Bravo!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Truth7t7]

I don't think anyone can put a number on all Israel will be saved.

Certainly the beast-king and the false-prophet will not be saved and both will be Jews.

All Israel will be saved is talking about the Jews going through the great tribulation will turn to Jesus in the middle of the seven years. They turn to Jesus and the gospel of salvation in Revelation 12:!0.

The scripture below clearly states (Israel/Jews) will not obtain salvation, only the elect will obtain, those who God chooses by foreknowledge

The Elect remnant Jew will be saved and added to God's Israel the Church upon earth, Israel of the flesh will be blinded

Romans 11:2-8KJV
2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying,
3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.
4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.
5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.
8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear;) unto this day.