Why its important to keep the Sabbath

[marks]

But one thing's for sure: Just as James 2:10 says: Disregarding one of God's commandments tends to lower morality, in general.

But that's not what the passage says.

James 2:10 KJV
For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

I'm always interested when someone posts a reference and asserts what the verse says, without quoting the verse. This verse does not say what you said.

And in fact, Paul makes a very specific statement that refutes this idea that we are to hold to the Law of Moses.

Romans 7:4-6 KJV
4) Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
5) For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.
6) But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

The Law provokes the flesh to sin.

And of course also in this passage, we are dead to the law, delivered from the law, so that we would serve Christ. Love and trust is a much higher standard, as far as I'm concerned, then the Mosaic Covenant that God made with Israel.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Thanks for explaining! Very good explanation! I have never known of anyone who obeys the Law. But some love to preach it!

No, no one does keep the Law. It's impossible to do so without the temple, and Levites, and so many reasons.

James clarified that the Law is a single thing, not a list of commandments of which some may be severed from the others. As if, there were civil, and ceremonial, and moral commandments, and we only have to keep the "moral" commandments. We don't get to pick and choose which we think apply and which don't.

"OK God, I know you didn't mean that part for me." Everything called for in the Law of Moses is addressed in Loving and Trusting, but not in the same fashion. Dietary law was to show a distinction between Israel and the other nations. We show that distinction when we love one another. Tithing law was to provide for the needs of the poor, and the Levites, and for fellowshiping with God. We are to work with our hands the thing that is good so we can give to others. There is no limit placed on that giving. And we have the Spirit of Christ in us, so we are in constant communion with Him.

Even the civil and ceremonial laws are fullfilled by love and trust in Christ.

Much love!

 

[Jack]

We don't have enough body bags to obey the Law. lol

 

[BarneyFife]

But that's not what the passage says.

James 2:10 KJV
For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

I'm always interested when someone posts a reference and asserts what the verse says, without quoting the verse. This verse does not say what you said.

And in fact, Paul makes a very specific statement that refutes this idea that we are to hold to the Law of Moses.

Romans 7:4-6 KJV
4) Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
5) For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.
6) But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

The Law provokes the flesh to sin.

And of course also in this passage, we are dead to the law, delivered from the law, so that we would serve Christ. Love and trust is a much higher standard, as far as I'm concerned, then the Mosaic Covenant that God made with Israel.

Much love!

I don't think a surface reading of James 2:10 works very well. (For what it's worth, we've talked about this kind of thing before, you and I.)

But, if you insist that it does work, tell me:

How, exactly, does dishonoring one's parents make them guilty of murder, idolatry, theft, Sabbath-breaking, etc.?

And I don't agree with your apparent assumption about the meaning of the phrase "which were by the law" in Romans 7:5 but conceding your premise for the sake of argument, exactly how are we "dead to" and "delivered from" the laws against murder, theft, idolatry, etc.?

Of course, I agree that we are, but not at all in the same way I suspect you are suggesting.


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[BarneyFife]

We don't have enough body bags to obey the Law. lol

Yeah, it's a hootenanny, a real knee-slapper.

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[Jack]

Yeah, it's a hootenanny, a real knee-slapper.

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Well you have to laugh to keep from crying that 'Christians' who IGNORE the Law are preaching the Law of Moses instead of the New Covenant paid for by the Blood of Jesus, and choose Hell fire.

 

[BarneyFife]

No, no one does keep the Law. It's impossible to do so without the temple, and Levites, and so many reasons.

James clarified that the Law is a single thing, not a list of commandments of which some may be severed from the others. As if, there were civil, and ceremonial, and moral commandments, and we only have to keep the "moral" commandments. We don't get to pick and choose which we think apply and which don't.

"OK God, I know you didn't mean that part for me." Everything called for in the Law of Moses is addressed in Loving and Trusting, but not in the same fashion. Dietary law was to show a distinction between Israel and the other nations. We show that distinction when we love one another. Tithing law was to provide for the needs of the poor, and the Levites, and for fellowshiping with God. We are to work with our hands the thing that is good so we can give to others. There is no limit placed on that giving. And we have the Spirit of Christ in us, so we are in constant communion with Him.

Even the civil and ceremonial laws are fullfilled by love and trust in Christ.

Much love!

Theologically convenient, I'm sure, but it flies in the face of virtually every reputable school/method of hermeneutics in existence until about 20 to 30 years ago.


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[BarneyFife]

Well you have to laugh to keep from crying that 'Christians' who IGNORE the Law are preaching the Law of Moses instead of the New Covenant paid for by the Blood of Jesus, and choose Hell fire.

Well, if you have to, you have to, I guess.

I'm partial to the law of God, myself. Most of the laws written out by Moses are just object lessons on the greater Atonement process now that Christ is crucified and risen.

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[Jack]

Well, if you have to, you have to, I guess.

I'm partial to the law of God, myself. Most of the laws written out by Moses are just object lessons on the greater Atonement process now that Christ is crucified and risen.

I don't think you have enough body bags to execute gays, adulterers and THOSE WHO WORK WEEKENDS COMMANDED by God! Or maybe you choose to ignore the parts you don't like?

 

[marks]

How, exactly, does dishonoring one's parents make them guilty of murder, idolatry, theft, Sabbath-breaking, etc.?

It makes then guilty of "breaking the Law". It's a single thing, a covenant. It's not that you've violated one single term of the covenant - broken a law - it's that you've violated the covenant. You didn't obey. Not that you've become a idolator, or something, you've become a law breaker.

James 2:9-11 KJV
9) But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
10) For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
11) For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.

This is the covenant:

Exodus 19:3-8 KJV
3) And Moses went up unto God, and the LORD called unto him out of the mountain, saying, Thus shalt thou say to the house of Jacob, and tell the children of Israel;
4) Ye have seen what I did unto the Egyptians, and how I bare you on eagles' wings, and brought you unto myself.
5) Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine:
6) And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.
7) And Moses came and called for the elders of the people, and laid before their faces all these words which the LORD commanded him.
8) And all the people answered together, and said, All that the LORD hath spoken we will do. And Moses returned the words of the people unto the LORD.

What comes after, the commandments on stone, the other commandments, all these detail what the required obedience entails. And you either keep the covenant, or you don't.

Much love!

 

[BarneyFife]

I don't think you have enough body bags to execute gays, adulterers and THOSE WHO WORK WEEKENDS COMMANDED by God! Or maybe you choose to ignore the parts you don't like?

The law of God, THE TEN COMMANDMENTS, doesn't say anything about executing anyone, Jack. Did you go to church when you were a kid? Where do you get this stuff from?

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[Jack]

The law of God, THE TEN COMMANDMENTS, doesn't say anything about executing anyone, Jack. Did you go to church when you were a kid? Where do you get this stuff from?

.

Define "The law of God". Have you read Galatians?

 

[BarneyFife]

It makes then guilty of "breaking the Law". It's a single thing, a covenant. It's not that you've violated one single term of the covenant - broken a law - it's that you've violated the covenant. You didn't obey. Not that you've become a idolator, or something, you've become a law breaker.

James 2:9-11 KJV
9) But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
10) For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
11) For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.

This is the covenant:

Exodus 19:3-8 KJV
3) And Moses went up unto God, and the LORD called unto him out of the mountain, saying, Thus shalt thou say to the house of Jacob, and tell the children of Israel;
4) Ye have seen what I did unto the Egyptians, and how I bare you on eagles' wings, and brought you unto myself.
5) Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine:
6) And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.
7) And Moses came and called for the elders of the people, and laid before their faces all these words which the LORD commanded him.
8) And all the people answered together, and said, All that the LORD hath spoken we will do. And Moses returned the words of the people unto the LORD.

What comes after, the commandments on stone, the other commandments, all these detail what the required obedience entails. And you either keep the covenant, or you don't.

Much love!

Do you really think Billy Graham (to whom I have no particular loyalty) didn't understand covenants and law?

From the Dallas Times/Herald:

Question:
Some religious people I know tell me that the ten commandments are a part of the law and do not apply to us today. They say that, as Christians, we are free from the law. Is that right?

Answer from Evangelist Billy Graham:
No, it is not right, and I hope you'll not be misled by these false opinions. It is important to understand what the New Testament means when it says that Christians are free from the law. It certainly does not mean that they are free from the obligations of the moral law of God and are at liberty to sin. You see the word "law" is used by the New Testament writers in two senses: Sometimes it refers to the ceremonial law of the Old Testament which is concerned about ritual matters and regulations regarding food and drink and things of this kind. This ceremonial law was of a passing character and was done away when Christ came. From this law Christians are indeed free. But, the New Testament also speaks of a moral law which is of a permanent, unchanging character and is summarized in the ten commandments. This law sets forth God's demands on human life and man's duty to God and neighbor, and that it definitely applies to the Christian is made clear in Romans 10:8-10. Of course, it is quite true that the Christian is not saved by his efforts to keep the law but, as one who is saved by God's mercy through faith in Christ, He is under an obligation to obey God's law. As it has been said, in Christ we are free from sin but not free to sin. "If you love me," He said, "keep my commandments."


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[marks]

And I don't agree with your apparent assumption about the meaning of the phrase "which were by the law" in Romans 7:5 but conceding your premise for the sake of argument, exactly how are we "dead to" and "delivered from" the laws against murder, theft, idolatry, etc.?

Of course, I agree that we are, but not at all in the same way I suspect you are suggesting.

What is the assumption you perceive me to be making?


Passions, nominative, names it. OF the sins, genetive, it belongs to Passions. The ones, again, nominative, Thru the law, genetive, belongs with the "the ones".

These particular passions that are named are of sin, and are through the law. The ones, and passions share the same gender/number form, so passions is the correct antecedant to "the ones".

To me, this passage seems pretty clear and straightforward.

How is it we are dead to the Law? We've left the kind of life that is governed by the Law, and entered a new kind of life that is governed personally by Jesus.

Much love

 

[marks]

Theologically convenient, I'm sure, but it flies in the face of virtually every reputable school/method of hermeneutics in existence until about 20 to 30 years ago.


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As an appeal to authority, well, there are many authorities, and many in error. I'm more interested in the Bible sayings themselves. Convenient? OK. For whom? I'm not really interested in convenience, more so for truth.

Much love!

 

[marks]

that they are free from the obligations of the moral law of God and are at liberty to sin.

False equivalency. Being dead to the Law does not equal liberty to sin. We actually have less liberty to sin, as we are under an higher standard.

Much love!

 

[marks]

I'm saying this is why Jesus did not call for the stoning of anyone.

As Gentiles, we never were under the Law, which was a covenant between God and Israel.

Keeping the Mosaic Law, as a gentile, is like, your neighbor bought a car on terms, and makes a monthly payment. He pays the payment, he keeps the car. So you, though you are not a party to that contract, decide that you should be doing the same thing, so you start sending a check to the bank every month just like your neighbor.

Much love!

After Jesus came, now, keeping the Mosaic Law is like, their car is paid off, AND you now have a brand new fully paid for car in YOUR driveway. And you keep sending your neighbor's bank a check every month.

Much love!

 

[Grailhunter]

The law of God, THE TEN COMMANDMENTS, doesn't say anything about executing anyone, Jack. Did you go to church when you were a kid? Where do you get this stuff from?

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Faulty understandings cause false beliefs…..

What you and many call the Ten Commandments are not the Commandment that God called Commandments. Those ten items in chapter 20 were summaries of actual Mosaic Laws. If you look in the body of the Mosaic Laws they are explained in full and most of them came with a requirement to kill the Law breaker and I do say requirement. Because if they did not kill them, they were just as guilty.

Forcing your beliefs on the scriptures is the wrong way to understand the scriptures….A simple reading of the ten items in Chapter 20 make it clear that they are summaries of the Law.

The Ten Commandments that God called Commandments of the Covenant and instructed Moses to write them on the Tablets of the Testimony are in Exodus 34:10-27 Read it for yourself.

No where in the Bible does God tell anyone to write the ten items in Chapter 20 on the tablets.

 

[marks]

Romans 10:8-10

Let's see if it happens with Billy Graham. If the referenced passage makes the same statement as he says.

This law sets forth God's demands on human life and man's duty to God and neighbor, and that it definitely applies to the Christian is made clear in Romans 10:8-10.

Romans 10:8-10 KJV
8) But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
9) That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10) For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Where in this passage are we told the Law applies to the Christian? I'm not seeing that. Can you explain this?

Much love!

 

[BarneyFife]

Faulty understandings cause false beliefs…..

What you and many call the Ten Commandments are not the Commandment that God called Commandments. Those ten items in chapter 20 were summaries of actual Mosaic Laws. If you look in the body of the Mosaic Laws they are explained in full and most of them came with a requirement to kill the Law breaker and I do say requirement. Because if they did not kill them, they were just as guilty.

Forcing your beliefs on the scriptures is the wrong way to understand the scriptures….A simple reading of the ten items in Chapter 20 make it clear that they are summaries of the Law.

The Ten Commandments that God called Commandments of the Covenant and instructed Moses to write them on the Tablets of the Testimony are in Exodus 34:10-27 Read it for yourself.

No where in the Bible does God tell anyone to write the ten items in Chapter 20 on the tablets.

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