Is Lying a Violation of the Ten Commandments? - No. - Well, maybe... ???

[St. SteVen]

The 9th Commandments reads:
“You shall not give false testimony against your neighbor. - EXODUS 20:16 NIV

Giving false testimony is perjury specifically, not lying in general. ???

perjury /pûr′jə-rē/

noun​

1. The crime of willfully and knowingly making a false statement about a material fact while under oath.
2. An act of committing such a crime.
   "testimony full of perjuries."
3. False swearing.

So... Is Lying a Violation of the Ten Commandments? - No. - Well, maybe... ???

What if the perjury is not against your neighbor?

Furthermore, we are not under the law that God gave to the Israelites alone through Moses.

So, where does that leave us?




/

 

[Spyder]

Hello can-of-worms, how ya doin?

I simply respond with "do we ever lie in such a way that it shows love to God and to others?"

 

[St. SteVen]

Hello can-of-worms, how ya doin?

Hello. Just fine.
I'm working my way up to bowl of fettuccine.

I have some terrible news. I got a job.
I'll have less time for cans of... err... bowls of fettuccine.

I simply respond with "do we ever lie in such a way that it shows love to God and to others?"

Yes, certainly, BUT...

Is that a violation of the Ten Commandments? (assuming...)

/

 

[Spyder]

Hello. Just fine.
I'm working my way up to bowl of fettuccine.

I have some terrible news. I got a job.
I'll have less time for cans of... err... bowls of fettuccine.


Yes, certainly, BUT...

Is that a violation of the Ten Commandments? (assuming...)

/

Well, sir, I can tell you that I avoid lying to anyone. I feel guilt for stretching any truth (called lying). I have also learned to answer questions very slowly because abrupt answers - not thought out before given - often are not complete truth.

The harlot who hid Yahweh's spies in Canaan obviously was not under the Law, but still she was rewarded for protecting Yahweh's spies. Was she rewarded for sin?

 

[O'Darby]

What I suspect many Christians should be most concerned about is lying to themselves.

 

[Lambano]

Want me to summon Jack? I'm sure nothing would delight him more than to read Revelation 21:8 to you, the part about the fate of "all liars".

 

[Lambano]

Well, sir, I can tell you that I avoid lying to anyone. I feel guilt for stretching any truth (called lying). I have also learned to answer questions very slowly because abrupt answers - not thought out before given - often are not complete truth.

I would prefer to tell the truth because I have a hard time trying to remember which lies I told to which people.

 

[Lambano]

The harlot who hid Yahweh's spies in Canaan obviously was not under the Law, but still she was rewarded for protecting Yahweh's spies. Was she rewarded for sin?

Rahab gets prominent mention in the roll call of the faithful in Hebrews 11:31 for what she did, right?

I took part in a Bible study called "Disciple" where we went through the whole Bible in one year. By the time we got to Revelation, I didn't care who wins in the end; I was just glad to get it over with. I can't recommend studying the Bible that way.

The section on Rahab was titled "Mirmah", the Hebrew word for "Deceit". (Strongs H4820, for those of you keeping score at home.) The discussion point was, when is lying the righteous thing to do?

It's a question that's relevant in my life now, in a coincidence that may not be just a coincidence. Let's see where this goes.

 

[Lambano]

 

[Lambano]

The 9th Commandments reads:
“You shall not give false testimony against your neighbor. - EXODUS 20:16 NIV

Giving false testimony is perjury specifically, not lying in general. ???

Or is the key point the "Against thy neighbor", i.e. somebody gets hurt?

Definitely an open can of worms on a slippery slope.

("Thou shalt not mix thy metaphors!")

 

[Starise]

Satan first lied to himself, then he lied to Eve, and where are we now with the effects of it? The bible is a lot more than the 10 commandmants.
I recently found an individual lying to another person who was an unbeliever because he said he felt it would help to minister to them better. It was a deliberate misrepresentation of the facts. I called him on it and he brought up Corrie Ten Boom lying to the German soldiers and Rahab. It was ok to lie sometimes according to him. I called him on it. He still to this day has never admitted an error, but it moved a discussion in a false direction as a result.
You tell me how ANY lie is ever ok?
Sarah lied about laughing in the tent when the Lord told Abraham she would have a child at an advanced age. When called on it she denied it, to which God called her on it, yet unlike Annanias and Saphira she wasn't struck dead on the spot for it.
Jacob's mother staged a lie to get Him the blessing. It is said Abraham lied about his wife being his sister, yet she WAS his half sister. Was it a lie?
We have precident for God using people in spite of their stupidity. King David was allowed to be king in spite of his sins with Bathsheba because God was using him for bigger things than himself. He paid a price for his sin in loosing a child and being disgraced in his kingdom. Someone else layed with his wives. Had David not been king, would the judgements have been different? Had Sarah not been Sarah would the judgements have been different? Why did Jacob get the blessing in spite of his lies?

It would seem God continues His plans IN SPITE of us at times. I don't believe this in any way ever condones any kind of a lie. Sometimes people act differently than they normally would if they are led to believe something that really isn't true. Isn't that what many sale people do daily? They hype the good and leave out the bad. Is not telling the whole truth the same things as telling a lie? IN a court of law witnesses in the US are to swear to tell THE WHOLE TRUTH AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH

Partial truth isn't the whole truth and deliberate partial truth for purposes of misrepresentation of the reality of a thing is what our enemy does day in and day out every day. He is a liar and the father of it.

 

[Wick Stick]

Giving false testimony is perjury specifically, not lying in general. ???

Yes, I believe that's correct.

So... Is Lying a Violation of the Ten Commandments? - No. - Well, maybe... ???

What if the perjury is not against your neighbor?

Furthermore, we are not under the law that God gave to the Israelites alone through Moses.

So, where does that leave us?

I think you're asking the wrong questions, here. These questions seem to be aimed at discerning the legality of the thing.

However, Jesus' interpretation of the Law is based on the idea that we should be concerned with the spirit in which the Laws were given - i.e. the intent behind the command. As long as the intent is upheld, the commandment is upheld.

For this commandment, the original intent was the establishment of a system of jurisprudence for Israel. That isn't all completely contained in the one verse, but if you were to read the chapters before and after Exodus 20, the establishment of a system of judges is central to the context.

Today, we can take that intent and re-apply it within the church community. If you have beef with your fellow-Christians, the pastors and elders of your church should be the ones to mediate - not the civil judges and attorneys. But especially, the prohibition is on bringing false accusations or producing false witnesses, which would undermine that intermediary function.

-Jarrod

 

[Wick Stick]

When is lying the righteous thing to do?

It's a question that's relevant in my life now, in a coincidence that may not be just a coincidence. Let's see where this goes.

First, lying IS prohibited. Not by this commandment... but elsewhere in the Bible.

From a Jewish perspective, prohibitions aren't absolute. A negative commandment (DON'T DO X), is always secondary to a positive commandment (DO X!) when the two conflict with each other.

So, lying is allowable only if it is necessary to uphold one of the positive commandments (i.e "love one another)."

But now you have to answer the question of "what is the best way to love someone?" Sparing feelings seems desirable, but sometimes that means you're handicapping the person in question by not giving them all the information they need.

 

[marks]

So, where does that leave us?

Ephesians 4:25 KJV
Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another.

Much love!

 

[Ronald Nolette]

The 9th Commandments reads:
“You shall not give false testimony against your neighbor. - EXODUS 20:16 NIV

Giving false testimony is perjury specifically, not lying in general. ???

perjury /pûr′jə-rē/

noun​

1. The crime of willfully and knowingly making a false statement about a material fact while under oath.
2. An act of committing such a crime.
   "testimony full of perjuries."
3. False swearing.

So... Is Lying a Violation of the Ten Commandments? - No. - Well, maybe... ???

What if the perjury is not against your neighbor?

Furthermore, we are not under the law that God gave to the Israelites alone through Moses.

So, where does that leave us?


View attachment 42890

/

Whether it violates the ten commandments is irrelevant to the Church. We are under the law of Christ and not the Mosaic Law.

1 Timothy 1:10
For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;

Revelation 21:8
But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.


pseustēs (Key)
Pronunciation
psyoos-tace'

Part of Speech
masculine noun
Root Word (Etymology)
From ψεύδομαι (G5574)
Greek Inflections of ψεύστης [?]
mGNT
10x in 4 unique form(s) TR
10x in 4 unique form(s) LXX
2x in 1 unique form(s)
ψεῦσται — 1x
ψεύσταις — 1x
ψεύστην — 2x
ψεύστης — 6x
Dictionary Aids
Vine's Expository Dictionary: View Entry
TDNT Reference: 9:594,1339
KJV Translation Count — Total: 10x
The KJV translates Strong's G5583 in the following manner: liar (10x).
Outline of Biblical Usage [?]

1. a liar
2. one who breaks faith
3. a false and faithless man

pseudēs (Key)
Pronunciation
psyoo-dace'

Part of Speech
adjective
Root Word (Etymology)
From ψεύδομαι (G5574)
Greek Inflections of ψευδής [?]
mGNT
3x in 2 unique form(s) TR
3x in 2 unique form(s) LXX
86x in 13 unique form(s)
ψευδεῖς — 2x
ψευδέσιν — 1x
Dictionary Aids
Vine's Expository Dictionary: View Entry
TDNT Reference: 9:594,1339
KJV Translation Count — Total: 3x
The KJV translates Strong's G5571 in the following manner: liar (2x), false (1x).
Outline of Biblical Usage [?]

1. lying, deceitful, false

 

[St. SteVen]

Well, sir, I can tell you that I avoid lying to anyone. I feel guilt for stretching any truth (called lying). I have also learned to answer questions very slowly because abrupt answers - not thought out before given - often are not complete truth.

Yes, certainly, BUT...

Is lying a violation of the Ten Commandments? (assuming...)

The harlot who hid Yahweh's spies in Canaan obviously was not under the Law, but still she was rewarded for protecting Yahweh's spies. Was she rewarded for sin?

Lying was not a sin until the TCs were given?
What about murder? Adultery? Adultery?
Sabbath breaking? (still not) - LOL

Romans 5:13 NIV
To be sure, sin was in the world before the law was given...

/

 

[St. SteVen]

Want me to summon Jack? I'm sure nothing would delight him more than to read Revelation 21:8 to you, the part about the fate of "all liars".

LOL
(but that's NOT the question)

Is lying a violation of the Ten Commandments? (assuming...)

/

 

[MatthewG]

Sin was paid for, and the commandments were completed by Christ.

I’m naturally a liar who doesn’t like to lie, but goes back and forth a lot own one’s on word. God deals me though, that’s the point. While sin is paid for, we realize it in ourselves from Jesus and it’s this on going struggling process, with sanctification and living in and by the spirit.

@St. SteVen

 

[MatthewG]

@St. SteVen what difference does it make to know?

 

[O'Darby]

Lying in many circumstances may well be the compassionate and merciful thing to do. This to me seems far more a Jesus-like standard than agnozing over how my conduct fits into the 9th Commandment. "Bearing false witness against thy neighbor" is a very specific circumstance that may never arise in most peoples' lives.