The Kingdom of God.... Is it within you?

[grafted branch]

What does it mean for satan to be bound if one is going by what Revelation 20 records? Does it not mean that he is laid hold upon then cast into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and a seal set upon him? How does one get cast into something that allegedly doesn't even literally exist, meaning the bottomless pit in this case? With that in mind, being cast into something, what about the following?

Revelation 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Here we see this same satan being cast into another place, the LOF in this case. Is one going to argue that the LOF is not a literal place, thus satan is not literally being cast into anywhere? Assuming one might not argue that, why would they then argue that per the bottomless pit example, then argue the opposte per the LOF example, that the bottomless pit is not a literal place but that the LOF is?

One thing reality teaches us by comparing to the real world, that the reason satan is bound, so that he can no longer deceive the nations until he is loosed first, that this is simply not the case yet. Therefore, though he is still limited to some degree as to what he can or can't do, he is not being prevented in any way from deceiving the nations, though. Clearly, he is still doing that and has never stopped doing that since he began doing it.

Revelation 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.


The keywords in this verse is 'no more'. Let's see how that same phrase is used elswhere in the book of Revelation.

Revelation 7:16 They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat.


What should we take 'no more' to mean here? Exactly what it says, that they shall hunger no more? Or the opposite of what is says, that they shall hunger some more?

Revelation 18:21 And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all.

What should we take 'no more' to mean here? Exactly what it says, that the great city Babylon shall be found no more at all? Or the opposite of what is says, that the great city Babylon shall still be found some more?

Shouldn't we then apply 'no more' in Revelation 20:3 in the same manner, that it means exactly what it says, rather than the opposite of what it says?

Revelation 20 says Satan is bound from deceiving the nations or ethnos no more. Per the Premill view Satan has not yet been bound from deceiving the nations but will be in the future.

Let’s look at the one world government idea for example. Can Satan currently deceive the nations into a one world government? We know Babylon was considered a one world government (Daniel 2:38), so Satan can’t be currently bound from creating a one world government right now unless we are in the millennium.

We are extremely divided in the US, no matter who is elected president this fall, there won’t be unity among the ungodly. If you argue that God hasn’t allowed a one world government to happen yet, then Satan is currently bound in this aspect.

What do you suppose deceiving the nations means?

 

[Timtofly]

From what I see, I would consider you as one of the brethren. What is Satan accusing you of? Do you have some sins that aren’t paid for yet?

Are you mocking Scripture?

"And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night."

In your interpretation was this prior to Genesis 1:1? Why are you associating what the Lamb did prior to Genesis 1:1 with Satan being cast out?

Would you say Moses still had sins "not paid for", as you put it?

"Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee."

What did Satan have against Moses even after death?

I doubt this point has anything to do with sin being paid for. Moses was punished for direct disobedience against God. Is the punishment the payment, or was the Cross the payment for all sin/disobedience?

The whole point about Satan having limits was brought up in Job. Satan was accusing Job of having it too good, not that Job was a sinner. Satan pointed out that if God took everything away, Job would show his true nature and sin against God.

Satan has been accusing the brethren day and night since Adam and Eve in the Garden. The brethren did not start at the Cross. If one was comparing Job to Genesis 3 what would they come up with? The accusations did not stop at the Cross either. Why would only those in the OT be considered brethren?

Was 1 Peter 5:8 written prior to the ministry of John the Baptist?

 

[marks]

The Covenant God made through Abraham's ONE SEED (Christ) is to all people of the same faith as Abraham.

This doesn't concern God's covenant with Abraham, rather, with the children of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob:

Exodus 19:4-9 KJV
4) Ye have seen what I did unto the Egyptians, and how I bare you on eagles' wings, and brought you unto myself.
5) Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine:
6) And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.
7) And Moses came and called for the elders of the people, and laid before their faces all these words which the LORD commanded him.
8) And all the people answered together, and said, All that the LORD hath spoken we will do. And Moses returned the words of the people unto the LORD.
9) And the LORD said unto Moses, Lo, I come unto thee in a thick cloud, that the people may hear when I speak with thee, and believe thee for ever. And Moses told the words of the people unto the LORD.

@covenantee

Much love!

 

[marks]

The epistles found in the New Testament are letters written to the universal Church on earth. The letters are not written to the Jewish nation of Israel but are to the Jews of faith and Gentiles of faith together called the "Israel of God". Spiritually the Kingdom of God that Christ ushered in that is to all humanity, especially to them that believe.

I'm simply pointing to what Peter himself wrote in the address for his letter. If you have an argument, it's with him, and not with me.

@covenantee

Much love!

 

[marks]

It seems that you don't understand that.

What do you understand about "the Diaspora"?

Much love!

 

[marks]

Think we underestimate how much He speaks to us in parables, lol.

We should never underestimate God's ability to use any part of Scripture to speak deeply and personally to our hearts.

Much love!

 

[marks]

The Covenant God gave to the seeds of Abraham regarding the land of promise was fulfilled when Joshua led the nation into Canaan and divided the land by lot. There is not one promise from God to Israel that has not already been fulfilled. The promise of God to the seeds of Abraham has already been fulfilled, but the promise came with the condition of obedience unto the LORD God alone. Since Israel broke the Covenant they forfeit the land of promise and quickly perished from off the good land the LORD had given them.

Same reply here . . . I'm not speaking concerning Abraham, rather, the covenent God made with the nation of Israel at Mt. Horeb.

And in that covenant, there is no forfeiture of the land, only the temporary exile. Not the loss of ownership, nor permanent exile.

Much love!

 

[Davidpt]

Let’s look at the one world government idea for example. Can Satan currently deceive the nations into a one world government? We know Babylon was considered a one world government (Daniel 2:38), so Satan can’t be currently bound from creating a one world government right now unless we are in the millennium.

We are extremely divided in the US, no matter who is elected president this fall, there won’t be unity among the ungodly. If you argue that God hasn’t allowed a one world government to happen yet, then Satan is currently bound in this aspect.

These are some good points. Never thought of it via that perspective before. I don't know what to do with it yet, though. Need more time to think about it I guess.

What do you suppose deceiving the nations means?

One thing it can't mean is what a lot of Amils tend to take it to mean, that it means satan is unable to prevent the spreading of the gospel. Which would then mean per this scenario, that unless satan is bound, he could literally prevent the spreading of the gospel. Not to mention, Amil has no good answer for what these in Revelation 20:8 are doing during the millennium, if after the millennium they are doing what they are doing.

Per Premil, or at least my take on it anyway, not all of the unsaved are destroyed at the 2nd coming if there is Zechariah 14:16-19 telling us that there will be survivors remaining of all the nations that came against Jerusalem. Obviously, they would no longer be deceived during the thousand years since satan would be in the pit, thus no one to deceive them, not to mention, the beast and false prophet would already be in the LOF. Plus the fact Christ and resurrected saints would be ruling the entire planet. Thus agrees with the text when it says that he should deceive the nations no more, until the thousand years are finshed.

The fact these survivors have been submitted to a one world government for a thousand years, they are then tested at the end of the thousand years when satan is loosed. And the fact you already brought up the idea of a one world government pertaining to this present age, that one world government is then being replaced with Christ's one world government at the beginning of the thousand years, thus Revelation 11:15. IOW, a one world government in this age or even in the next age solves nothing since governments can be rebelled against, and in some cases, overthrown.

 

[rwb]

Same reply here . . . I'm not speaking concerning Abraham, rather, the covenent God make with the nation of Israel at Mt. Horeb.

And in that covenant, there is no forfeiture of the land, only the temporary exile. Not the loss of ownership, nor permanent exile.

Much love!

If this is the covenant you are referring to, perhaps you missed the conditionality placed upon Israel IF... ye will obey My voice, and keep My covenant! Only THEN would the nation of Israel remain the people of God.

For the nation of Israel to be unto God a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation, they MUST keep the covenant.. As Scripture repeatedly affirms the nation of Israel failed to keep God's covenant, and for that reason when Christ came to earth a man the nation of Israel had already become an abomination and desolate nation unto God.
Exodus 19:5-6 (KJV) Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine: And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.

God has rejected the nation of Israel as His people corporately, and only the remnant according to election of grace of them are the people of God, a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. Israel of faith with Gentiles of faith are God's peculiar treasure, a kingdom of priest, and an holy nation called Israel of God, not an ethnic people, but all people of faith. Exactly as Peter writes. The nation of Israel has forfeited forever the special status they HAD before God, through disobedience to His covenant, committing spiritual adultery, fornication and abominations, serving and bowing down to the gods of this world. For this reason Christ says to them "Behold, your house is left unto you desolate."

 

[grafted branch]

Are you mocking Scripture?

"And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night."

In your interpretation was this prior to Genesis 1:1? Why are you associating what the Lamb did prior to Genesis 1:1 with Satan being cast out?

I’m in no way trying to mock scripture, I can’t figure out what Satan can accuse the brethren of. You haven’t directly answered this. Our sins were paid for at the cross, the Old Testament pointed to Christ even though he was the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. God’s promises are so sure that it’s as if they had already happened even though they didn’t take place yet. People weren’t allowed in heaven until after the cross, they were in Sheol.

Would you say Moses still had sins "not paid for", as you put it?

"Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee."

What did Satan have against Moses even after death?

Moses and the brethren were in Sheol, while Satan made the accusations which were legitimate until payment was made.

I know on the mount of transfiguration Moses was seen, this could possibly be the dispute but there really is no solid evidence of how we should interpret this.

 

[grafted branch]

And the fact you already brought up the idea of a one world government pertaining to this present age, that one world government is then being replaced with Christ's one world government at the beginning of the thousand years, thus Revelation 11:15. IOW, a one world government in this age or even in the next age solves nothing since governments can be rebelled against, and in some cases, overthrown.

Well, I’ll say this, I don’t think anyone would say we are currently under a one world government and I also don’t think Satan is a benevolent being allowing the gospel to be preached until some future time where he will then decide to form a one world government.

Satan has to have been bound from forming the one world government or he would’ve surely used it to fight the church. Whether this qualifies as the binding in Revelation 20 is definitely debatable.

 

[marks]

If this is the covenant you are referring to, perhaps you missed the conditionality placed upon Israel IF... ye will obey My voice, and keep My covenant! Only THEN would the nation of Israel remain the people of God.

Read the exact words of the covenant, and also read this:

Jeremiah 31:35-37 KJV
35) Thus saith the LORD, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The LORD of hosts is his name:
36) If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the LORD, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.
37) Thus saith the LORD; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the LORD.

Much love!

 

[marks]

For the nation of Israel to be unto God a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation, they MUST keep the covenant

OK. THIS is the covenant. They have not always been an holy nation. Nor have they been a kingdom of priests. Yet they have never stopped being the nation God chose from among the others.

not an ethnic people,

Jeremiah 31:35-37 KJV
35) Thus saith the LORD, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The LORD of hosts is his name:
36) If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the LORD, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.
37) Thus saith the LORD; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the LORD.

Bears repeating . . .

Much love!

 

[marks]

There is more than one kind of kingdom.

Much love!

 

[marks]

1 Peter 5:8 KJV
Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:

Much love!

 

[marks]

No, that is the Israel of God!

The Diaspora is a certain thing, and it's not about gentiles, it's about Israelites who were scattered.

Much love!

 

[MatthewG]

Yes in the heart of the believer who has hope in being with Yahava in the Kingdom, surely is on the heart of those who are worshiping Yahava in spirit and truth. Who are awaiting to go forth from this life, with hope, and in faith, and in love.

Even Yahava who is Spirit, lives within believers, by his Holy Spirit.

Yahava adopts those who are of faith, to the Kingdom, and become children of God, even Sons or Daughters of God.

 

[marks]

Per Premil, or at least my take on it anyway, not all of the unsaved are destroyed at the 2nd coming if there is Zechariah 14:16-19 telling us that there will be survivors remaining of all the nations that came against Jerusalem.

Also the sheep/goats judgment in Matthew 25. Some survive and enter the kingdom.

Much love!

 

[covenantee]

What do you understand about "the Diaspora"?

Much love!

The diaspora which Peter was addressing was comprised of Christian Israelites.

Christian Israelites were comprised of both Christian Jews and Christian Gentiles.

Peter describes them in 1 Peter 2:5,9 et al.

 

[marks]

The diaspora which Peter was addressing was comprised of Christian Israelites.

This part is correct.

Christian Israelites were comprised of both Christian Jews and Christian Gentiles.

This is not the Diaspora. It is a certain thing, and you are not allowed the opportunity to redefine what already has a meaning.

Much love!