Here is why, as an Adventist, I believe America is in Trouble.

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David in NJ

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Jesus and His Apostles NEVER taught Saturday sabbath as the SDA claims View attachment 41166

The sabbath under the New Covenant is not what it was under the old covenant. View attachment 41169





Saturday sabbath is not mentioned here... try again homie.




You fail to speak clearly and say exactly what it is you are trying to say... which smells like deception.

Come right out and explain the sabbath as it is under the New Covenant... which will not be in agreement with the SDA peoples if you are actually going by what scripture says in the New Covenant.

That is if you are capable of doing so.
Deuteronomy 32:4
“The Rock, his work is perfect, for all his ways are justice. A God of faithfulness and without iniquity, just and upright is he.

Genesis 2:2-3
And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

Exodus ch31
And the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, 13“Speak also to the children of Israel, saying: ‘Surely My Sabbaths you shall keep, for it is a sign between Me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I am the Lord who sanctifies you.
14You shall keep the Sabbath, therefore, for it is holy to you. Everyone who profanes it shall surely be put to death;
for whoever does any work on it, that person shall be cut off from among his people.
15Work shall be done for six days, but the seventh is the Sabbath of rest, holy to the Lord.
Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.
16Therefore the children of Israel shall keep the Sabbath,
to observe the Sabbath throughout their generations as a perpetual covenant.
17It is a sign between Me and the children of Israel forever; for in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day He rested and was refreshed.’


God never lies = Matthew 5:17
“Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill."


my Brother @ewq1938 - take a shot at this = you will in no way offend me
 

David in NJ

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Jesus and His Apostles NEVER taught Saturday sabbath as the SDA claims View attachment 41166

The sabbath under the New Covenant is not what it was under the old covenant. View attachment 41169





Saturday sabbath is not mentioned here... try again homie.




You fail to speak clearly and say exactly what it is you are trying to say... which smells like deception.

Come right out and explain the sabbath as it is under the New Covenant... which will not be in agreement with the SDA peoples if you are actually going by what scripture says in the New Covenant.

That is if you are capable of doing so.
@Big Boy Johnson says: "That is if you are capable of doing so."

Well, we know that you were not able to find it.

@Phoneman777 is out
@Big Boy Johnson is out
@Lizbeth is out
@Jay Ross is out

that leaves @ewq1938 and @Brakelite and @BarneyFife
 

Brakelite

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Sorry, I'm not going to listen to rants that go against what Apostle Paul said in Colossians 2 that the Christian IS NOT TO BE JUDGED regarding any holy day, new moon, or SABBATH day.
The only reason any of us are discussing the Sabbath at all is because at some time in this thread a non Sabbath keeper, followed by others, decided to judge Sabbath keepers, contrary to the very text you quoted. All we are doing is defending the reasons why we observe it. We aren't judging anyone.
No, they were wrong.
The basis for the reformers' collective charges against the papacy was not founded on personal prejudice nor was it influenced by current cultural considerations, but were founded firmly on the word of God, the Bible. Thus it is the inspired word of God that makes the case against the Roman church. It is God Himself who warns the readers of His word against Romanism; it is God Himself that calls His people out of that system (yes, He does have people in the RCC, and He does love them every bit as much as He loves anyone else); and it is God Himself who offers an alternative.

Every reformer, from the 12th to the 18th century, from Wycliffe to Luther, from Calvin to Cranmer, and dozens in between, pointed their collective fingers at Rome and proclaimed the Roman papacy as the Antichrist of prophetic scripture. Were they right? If one was to give any credence to modern Christianity's view, the reformation was a major mistake, and the reformers all religious radicals deceived and influenced by the times in which they lived. If however they were right, and the Roman Catholic Church is indeed the Antichrist as they claimed, then why do so few proclaim it today? If however they were wrong which it seems the majority of Christendom now contend, then why don't we all forsake the title "protestant" (who's protesting today anyway?) and return to Rome?
For what reasons did the reformers risk life and limb, (literally), in their damning accusations against the church which raised them? Nearly all the reformers were priests, with no intentions of forming new churches, but reforming the one they loved and held dear. Yet here they are accusing the very institution which educated and confirmed them in their faith, of being the dreaded Antichrist of prophetic scripture. Why?

Was it revenge for being excommunicated? No, they were excommunicated for the most part because of the accusations. Was it the worst insult they could come up with because of a personal grudge? Hardly. Or perhaps, as this author believes and could readily expand on later, was it because they were serious students of the Bible and saw unmistakably the fulfilment of the many prophecies regarding Antichrist being played out perfectly before their very eyes?

Are you aware that there is more detail concerning the character and nature of this entity than any other in the entire scriptures apart from Jesus Himself? Even Satan doesn't get that much press, yet God has seen fit to describe the Antichrist with accuracy and detail no other earthly entity receives. In His love, God earnestly desires that every man, woman, and child on the planet makes no mistake regarding the identity of Antichrist.
Antichrist poses such a threat that God has given us more than ample warning and information as to who or what this entity is. Yet today the majority of Christendom completely ignores the very heroes of our faith and the godly men and women of recent history who died as a result of their testimony, and look to the future for some mythical creature to fulfil their clairvoyant prognostications.

Let me lay my card on the table, and I pray everyone reading this heeds the warning. While you look to the horizon for a battleship to appear with all guns blazing against Christianity and named "Antichrist", look behind you. There is a 'friend' who kisses you as Judas kissed Christ and will run you over like a runaway train lest you kneel before her.
Got any other quotes that are actual calls to action?
"If ye love Me, keep My commandments".
Observing Saturday sabbath... does not earn your salvation!
No-one is suggesting otherwise.
You have no scripture that say one is required to observe Saturday sabbath in order to be saved.
Last time I looked, the Bible still said, the wages of sin is death.
Then the SDA position that "only those that go to church on Saturday are saved" is a moot point.
That isn't the SDA 'position'. We accept the NT Bible position which clearly states the wages of sin is death.
The Lord does not instruct anybody to observe Saturday sabbath in the New Testament and He does not instruct Christians to go murder those who do not keep the Saturday sabbath
I tell you what though, you are right that Christians are not instructed to murder others for not observing the Sabbath. The heavy irony is that historically it was Sunday keepers who murdered Sabbath keepers. AND SO IT WILL BE AGAIN. The hatred and vitriol against the keeping of or observance of the Sabbath in these threads, and the despising of those who promote such, is palpable, and is reminiscent of KJV Matthew 5:21-22
21 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:
22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
 
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Brakelite

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Jesus and His Apostles NEVER taught Saturday sabbath as the SDA claims View attachment 41166

The sabbath under the New Covenant is not what it was under the old covenant. View attachment 41169





Saturday sabbath is not mentioned here... try again homie.




You fail to speak clearly and say exactly what it is you are trying to say... which smells like deception.

Come right out and explain the sabbath as it is under the New Covenant... which will not be in agreement with the SDA peoples if you are actually going by what scripture says in the New Covenant.

That is if you are capable of doing so.
You will not accept anything we tell you concerning the new covenant while you don't believe everything God told you about the old covenant.
 
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David in NJ

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You will not accept anything we tell you concerning the new covenant while you don't believe everything God told you about the old covenant.
Brakelite says: "You will not accept anything we tell you concerning the new covenant while you don't believe everything God told you about the old covenant."

This is True and i believe it.
How about yourself?
Post #441
 

Phoneman777

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@Phoneman777 @Big Boy Johnson @BarneyFife
Salvation is granted to us by faith and thru observance = you cannot have one without the other.

The question to you and all SDA's is - Observace of what?
Not observance to commandments, but observance to God's directive to surrender our hearts. At that moment, Jesus enters our heart and enables us to "observe" the commandments, without Him we can't keep them (Romans 8:7 KJV).
 

Phoneman777

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You will not accept anything we tell you concerning the new covenant while you don't believe everything God told you about the old covenant.
It's very difficult to reach people because change and human nature are often at odds with each other.

The issue is this: the idea of fully surrendering one's thoughts, words, and actions to God is as unwelcome as when Christ stated the necessity of this when He told them everyone must eat His flesh and drink His blood.

They want "some" of Christ, but not "all" of Christ.

They want Christ, their Savior from sin, and not Christ, their Lord they must obey.
 

David in NJ

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Not observance to commandments, but observance to God's directive to surrender our hearts. At that moment, Jesus enters our heart and enables us to "observe" the commandments, without Him we can't keep them (Romans 8:7 KJV).
OK, loved your post but here is the 'double edge sword'

Galatians 3:10
"For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written,
“Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them.”
But that no one is justified by the law in the sight of God is evident, for “the just shall live by faith.”
Yet the law is not of faith, but “the man who does them shall live by them.”

So we have a CLEAR distinction separating us from the OT commandments.

Therefore we must be PERFECT in our understanding of EXACTLY what the LORD has commanded us under the NT.
 
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BarneyFife

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I did show the actual meaning of the Greek word 'sabbaton' in Colossians 2:16 by Apostle Paul, you simply REJECT THAT SCRIPTURE.


Col 2:16
16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the
sabbath (NT:4521) days:
KJV


NT:4521
sabbaton (sab'-bat-on); of Hebrew origin [OT:7676]; the Sabbath (i.e. Shabbath), or day of weekly repose from secular avocations (also the observance or institution itself); by extension, a se'nnight, i.e. the interval between two Sabbaths; likewise the plural in all the above applications:
  1. KJV - sabbath (day), week.
(Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright © 1994, 2003, 2006, 2010 Biblesoft, Inc. and International Bible Translators, Inc.)

You did no such thing and, no, I don't reject the Scripture, but you are either completely denying the definitions that you, yourself, gave in evidence of your claim -or- you're having trouble comprehending the meaning of the parts of those definitions, which I have conveniently re-quoted in boldface for you. Commas and semicolons between expressions mean optional definitions.

(Not that it is necessary to know anything about the original languages to understand the Bible—one more thing that everyone seemed to realize before Al Gore invented the Internet.)

I simply take the Ten Commandments as they read. You are attempting by ambiguous, isolated statements made in later-penned Scripture to impeach the Ten Commandments. You are free to undertake such misadventure at your own risk. I'm sticking with simple obedience to God's simple commands.

:hearteyes:
.
 
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ewq1938

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Every reformer, from the 12th to the 18th century, from Wycliffe to Luther, from Calvin to Cranmer, and dozens in between, pointed their collective fingers at Rome and proclaimed the Roman papacy as the Antichrist of prophetic scripture. Were they right?

No. The RCC is one of the MANY AC systems but isn't the singular, future antichrist John wrote of and is not Revelation's example of him either.

If one was to give any credence to modern Christianity's view, the reformation was a major mistake, and the reformers all religious radicals deceived and influenced by the times in which they lived. If however they were right, and the Roman Catholic Church is indeed the Antichrist as they claimed, then why do so few proclaim it today?

I don't think "few" is accurate but too many believe the RCC is the endtimes, and last AC. What they believed to be the AC is NOT equal to the general protesting and reformation. IE: being wrong on the AC does not make the entire movement wrong. Such a fallacy to even imply such a thing in question form.




Are you aware that there is more detail concerning the character and nature of this entity than any other in the entire scriptures apart from Jesus Himself? Even Satan doesn't get that much press, yet God has seen fit to describe the Antichrist with accuracy and detail no other earthly entity receives. In His love, God earnestly desires that every man, woman, and child on the planet makes no mistake regarding the identity of Antichrist.
Antichrist poses such a threat that God has given us more than ample warning and information as to who or what this entity is. Yet today the majority of Christendom completely ignores the very heroes of our faith and the godly men and women of recent history who died as a result of their testimony, and look to the future for some mythical creature to fulfil their clairvoyant prognostications.

As others have said, being so focused on the RCC as AC means identifying the real coming AC will be impossible.

I have noticed similar teachings about the antichrist.

Doctrines like Pre-trib teach the church will be gone, so they don't worry about the antichrist or look for any of the signs of his arrival.

Various forms of Preterism including Amillennialism teach the antichrist already came in the past so there is no need to watch for him now.


Other doctrines teach the AC isn't ever a singular man, or that denominations like the RCC and it's Papacy are the antichrist which is a mis-identification of the last and final antichrist and antichrist type system.

These all share the similarity of teaching that there is no need to watch for the antichrist at all. Seems like a great thing for satan to introduce into the churches so his antichrist (whoever he is) can slip right in and deceive those not watching. The antichrist is also known as a false christ and that is the most dangerous thing not to be knowledgeable about in the endtimes because of the apostasia (the Apostasy).



So, not watching for the antichrist or not believing in a singular future AC or thinking something/someone else is the antichrist can result in one being deceived and committing Apostasy.

All false doctrines teach some version of doctrine where it's adherents need not worry about or watch for the not-yet-here antichrist. That is extremely dangerous. Beware!




Let me lay my card on the table, and I pray everyone reading this heeds the warning. While you look to the horizon for a battleship to appear with all guns blazing against Christianity and named "Antichrist", look behind you. There is a 'friend' who kisses you as Judas kissed Christ and will run you over like a runaway train lest you kneel before her.


God wanted Judas to kiss Christ to identify him to be arrested and taken to the cross.

The better advice is to look EVERYWHERE, not just in front or behind you. You already think you know the AC so you aren't looking anywhere but there. Others make the same exact mistake, but looking elsewhere in the past, or not even concerned about looking at all.

The real AC isn't what most even think he will be, won't look like they think he will and are not prepared to identify or refuse him and what he wants of you.
 
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David in NJ

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No. The RCC is one of the MANY AC systems but isn't the singular, future antichrist John wrote of and is not Revelation's example of him either.



I don't think "few" is accurate but too many believe the RCC is the endtimes, and last AC. What they believed to be the AC is NOT equal to the general protesting and reformation. IE: being wrong on the AC does not make the entire movement wrong. Such a fallacy to even imply such a thing in question form.






As others have said, being so focused on the RCC as AC means identifying the real coming AC will be impossible.

I have noticed similar teachings about the antichrist.

Doctrines like Pre-trib teach the church will be gone, so they don't worry about the antichrist or look for any of the signs of his arrival.

Various forms of Preterism including Amillennialism teach the antichrist already came in the past so there is no need to watch for him now.


Other doctrines teach the AC isn't ever a singular man, or that denominations like the RCC and it's Papacy are the antichrist which is a mis-identification of the last and final antichrist and antichrist type system.

These all share the similarity of teaching that there is no need to watch for the antichrist at all. Seems like a great thing for satan to introduce into the churches so his antichrist (whoever he is) can slip right in and deceive those not watching. The antichrist is also known as a false christ and that is the most dangerous thing not to be knowledgeable about in the endtimes because of the apostasia (the Apostasy).



So, not watching for the antichrist or not believing in a singular future AC or thinking something/someone else is the antichrist can result in one being deceived and committing Apostasy.

All false doctrines teach some version of doctrine where it's adherents need not worry about or watch for the not-yet-here antichrist. That is extremely dangerous. Beware!







God wanted Judas to kiss Christ to identify him to be arrested and taken to the cross.

The better advice is to look EVERYWHERE, not just in front or behind you. You already think you know the AC so you aren't looking anywhere but there. Others make the same exact mistake, but looking elsewhere in the past, or not even concerned about looking at all.

The real AC isn't what most even think he will be, won't look like they think he will and are not prepared to identify or refuse him and what he wants of you.
1 John 2:6+6+6
Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour. They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.
 

ewq1938

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God never lies = Matthew 5:17
“Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill."


my Brother @ewq1938 - take a shot at this = you will in no way offend me


What does fulfilling something mean?
 

David in NJ

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What does fulfilling something mean?
Psalm 23

You prepare a table before me in the presence of my enemies;
You anoint my head with oil;
My cup runs over.
Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me
All the days of my life;
And I will dwell in the house of the Lord
Forever.
 

ewq1938

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Psalm 23

You prepare a table before me in the presence of my enemies;
You anoint my head with oil;
My cup runs over.
Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me
All the days of my life;
And I will dwell in the house of the Lord
Forever.


I'm looking for an answer from you and by you addressing the meaning of fulfill.
 

David in NJ

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I'm looking for an answer from you and by you addressing the meaning of fulfill.
my Brother, whom i love and greatly appreciate =
i just gave you a direct Prophetic answer that was FULL-FILLED by MESSIAH for us
AND
is directly related/connected to my posts on this subject in this thread
 

ewq1938

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Take a large cup and fill it to where it overflows.

You just FULL-FILLED something that requires FILLING.

Have you ever heard - My Cup Runneth Over

That is not what the word means. Here is the word:

G4137
πληρόω
plēroō
play-ro'-o
From G4134; to make replete, that is, (literally) to cram (a net), level up (a hollow), or (figuratively) to furnish (or imbue, diffuse, influence), satisfy, execute (an office), finish (a period or task), verify (or coincide with a prediction), etc.: - accomplish, X after, (be) complete, end, expire, fill (up), fulfil, (be, make) full (come), fully preach, perfect, supply.
Total KJV occurrences: 90
 

ewq1938

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Remember in context Christ said he didn't come to destroy the law or prophets, but to fulfil them as in fulfil the law and prophets. What does fulfil mean in that context?

Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
 

David in NJ

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That is not what the word means. Here is the word:

G4137
πληρόω
plēroō
play-ro'-o
From G4134; to make replete, that is, (literally) to cram (a net), level up (a hollow), or (figuratively) to furnish (or imbue, diffuse, influence), satisfy, execute (an office), finish (a period or task), verify (or coincide with a prediction), etc.: - accomplish, X after, (be) complete, end, expire, fill (up), fulfil, (be, make) full (come), fully preach, perfect, supply.
Total KJV occurrences: 90

EXACT and SAME as my post to you

literally) to cram (a net), level up (a hollow), or (figuratively) to furnish (or imbue, diffuse, influence), satisfy, execute (an office), finish (a period or task),
 

ewq1938

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EXACT and SAME as my post to you

literally) to cram (a net), level up (a hollow), or (figuratively) to furnish (or imbue, diffuse, influence), satisfy, execute (an office), finish (a period or task),

Well, in context he said fulfil in the sense of to finish something, the last one in your post. As far as the law goes, it was finished by Christ in that fulfilling. This means nothing more is needed to required by it. This is why Christians don't burn offerings etc that the old law demanded to be done. It was finished by Jesus. All of the law was, not just part of it.

This is why a new law was introduced, called the law of liberty or the law of Christ. It was new and wasn't the fulfilled law Christ spoke of.
 
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