They will reign with Him a thousand years and making an unknown Greek out of the English New Testament

[Davidpt]

There are many days of the Lord, not just the one second coming day. The day of the GWTJ is another day of the Lord and that is when the NHNE happens.

Obviously, if you are viewing some of these things in this manner, we are never going to get on the same page here ever. The NT mentions only one day of the Lord involving end times, and that it comes as a thief in the night.

verse 36 is not addressing verse 35.

Of course it is. Why wouldn't it be? What is the point of even bringing up that heaven and earth shall pass away if none of the surrounding context is connected with it? Why would Jesus be bringing up an unrelated subject having zero to do with anything He is saying at the time?

Matthew 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

First of all, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled, is explained per this part---Heaven and earth shall pass away---which then connects verse 34 with 35 and not the way Preterists take verse 34 to mean instead.

Which then means---When this generation shall pass it then equals heaven and earth shall pass away. Which can mean only one thing at this point, verse 36 is informing us, but of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

How can the day of the Lord coming as a thief in the night(2 Peter 3:10) not fit Matthew 24:36 to a T?

How can 2 Peter 3:10 remotely not be involving heaven and earth passing away, when it clearly even says so in that same verse? If the following is not heaven passing away---in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise---what is it that is passing away then? Obviously then, this also means this part---the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up--is meaning the passing away of the earth. Thus agrees with Matthew 24:35 when Jesus said heaven and earth shall pass away.

As of 2 Peter 3:10 we no longer have a habitable earth to dwell on. And unless there is a habitable earth to replace it at the time, what then? Is there such a thing as another earth between after it passes away and before a new one arrives? IOW, something like this. The old earth passes away, followed by another earth, a temporary one that is neither the first earth nor the new earth, followed by the new earth. IOW, nothing that the Bible remotely supports.

Unfortunately, you likely see my points as moot here since you are not interpreting these things in this manner. There is always the chance that I am interpreting these things correctly and that you are not. You could say the same in regards to me as well, I'm sure. But unless you can produce better, more convincing arguments than I just did here, we then end up with your opinion, where opinions alone prove nothing one way or the other vs. my arguments, where arguments at least can prove something one way or the other.

 

[Timtofly]

Do you deny the thousand years regardless of whether you believe it to be literal or symbolic, equates to TIME? Of course it does! Now you've created a problem for yourself because John writes in Rev 10:5-7 that when the seventh angel begins to sound time/delay should be no longer. How can there be one thousand more years of TIME after the seventh trumpet sounds? The only TIME that shall come after the sounding of the seventh trumpet is Satan's little season. Surely you don't believe Satan's little season is at the beginning of the NHNE where only righteousness dwells?

How does time end before the "little season"?

You are hypocritical. Either time ends or it is extended per your little season.

Saying a thousand years happens after your interpretation is no different than a "little season" which could mean "a thousand years" per your own indefinite time interpretation for both, since you cannot even define this "little season".

Besides, the time up is not a specific time frame nor the cessation of time.

The time referenced is in relationship to the mystery of God. Several things are up at that point:

Adam's punishment of sin and death is up.

Daniel's 70 weeks are up.

The fulness of the Gentiles is up.

All these relate to the mystery of God. Time is not a mystery but just an aspect of creation.

 

[rwb]

How does time end before the "little season"?

You are hypocritical. Either time ends or it is extended per your little season.

Saying a thousand years happens after your interpretation is no different than a "little season" which could mean "a thousand years" per your own indefinite time interpretation for both, since you cannot even define this "little season".

Besides, the time up is not a specific time frame nor the cessation of time.

The time referenced is in relationship to the mystery of God. Several things are up at that point:

Adam's punishment of sin and death is up.

Daniel's 70 weeks are up.

The fulness of the Gentiles is up.

All these relate to the mystery of God. Time is not a mystery but just an aspect of creation.

Satan is not set free until AFTER the thousand years have ended. That means the thousand years is TIME or DELAY that shall be no longer AFTER the thousand years have ended. This TIME symbolized a thousand years was for two reasons, (1) binding Satan (2) building the Kingdom of God as the Gospel of the Kingdom is proclaimed throughout all the nations of the world. That is the TIME that shall be no longer when the seventh trumpet begins to sound. Since the purpose for Satan being bound during this time the Kingdom of God is being built, the time given that is not part of the thousand years is Satan's little season. Satan won't have his little season until AFTER the spiritual Kingdom of God in heaven is completed when the last Gentile to be saved has come into the Kingdom of God through birth from above.

That is the mystery of God that had been kept secret from old, that Gentiles would complete the spiritual Kingdom of God as the Gospel of the Kingdom goes out unto all the nations (Gentiles) of the world. The mystery of the Kingdom of God being built through Gentiles of faith is finished because the spiritual Kingdom of God shall be accomplished, the spiritual Kingdom of God complete.

Romans 11:25 (KJV) For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

Romans 16:25-26 (KJV) Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began, But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

Ephesians 3:1-7 (KJV) For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles, If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward: How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words, Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ) Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit; That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel: Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.

Ephesians 3:8-11 (KJV) Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ; And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ: To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God, According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:

Colossians 1:25-27 (KJV) Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God; Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

1 Timothy 3:16 (KJV) And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

The little season Satan shall be given comes AFTER the spiritual Kingdom of God is complete.

 

[Davidpt]

Do you deny the thousand years regardless of whether you believe it to be literal or symbolic, equates to TIME?

If you have been reading any of my other posts in this thread, it should already be clear to you as to how I view the thousand years, that I view it as time involving 24 hour day cycles. I do not agree that 24 hour cycles no longer exist once Christ returns. In my view, there is the NJ and there are nations outside of the NJ once Christ has returned. The nations outside of the NJ are still experiencing life in the same manner, where there are still seasons, there is still night and day, so on and so on.

Surely you don't believe Satan's little season is at the beginning of the NHNE where only righteousness dwells?

His little season would not be the beginning of the NHNE. The beginning of the NHNE would be the beginning of the thousand years. He is then loosed to try and throw a monkey wrench, so to speak, into the new era involving the everlasting NHNE. IOW, since he already threw a monkey wrench, so to speak, into the former earth, meaning this present one, he then attemps one final go at it, thus history repeating itself.

Once again, Amil can't convincingly explain what these in Revelation 20:8 are doing during the thousand years and why they are doing what they are doing after the thousand years.

Premil, or at least my take on it anyway, can explain what these in Revelation 20:8 are doing during the thousand years and why they are doing what they are doing after the thousand years. During the thousand years they are being subjected to Christ and His saints reigning with Him, one world government. When satan is loosed they rebel against being subjected to Christ's laws and way of living during the thousand years. Zechariah 14:16-19, for one, explains who these are and where they came from. As does Daniel 7:12, though some interpreters disagree that that verse supports that, where even some Premils disagree that it does.

Therefore, until Amil can convincingly explain what these in Revelation 20:8 are doing during the thousand years and why they are doing what they are doing after the thousand years, Amil has to be rejected in the meantime, based on that alone.

 

[rwb]

Christ rose as immortal but the eternal age did not begin yet. At the Coming the dead in Christ will rise immortal, but still the eternal age is not yet. Only once mortality is erased, then can we say eternity has begun, Rev 21.

Eternal life begins for all who are born again through the Spirit of Christ in you. That's why Christ says the life we have through Him is eternal/everlasting life through His Spirit.

John 10:28 (KJV) And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

John 17:2 (KJV) As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.

John 3:36 (KJV) He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

John 5:24 (KJV) Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

It is because the life we have through Christ when we believe and have entered into the spiritual Kingdom of God, that John saw physically dead souls in heaven a spiritual body of believers there. Because after they physically died their spirit returned to God in heaven alive, because we HAVE eternal/everlasting life when we believe in Christ.

When man of faith is resurrected to physical immortal & incorruptible life it shall be in an hour coming when the last trumpet sounds. That is when the eternal/everlasting spiritual body that John writes of having died in faith shall return with Christ to give life to our resurrected body of flesh that shall never die again.

1 Thessalonians 4:14 (KJV) For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

1 Corinthians 15:51-54 (KJV) Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

All NOW HAVE eternal/everlasting spiritual life through the Spirit of Christ in us. Because we already HAVE eternal/everlasting spiritual life, when Christ comes again our physical body too shall have immortal & incorruptible life the life with Christ forever on the new earth.

 

[rwb]

The Millennium is the time of the rod of iron rule over mortals while satan is imprisoned. Death, pain, tears, the sea and satan all still exist.

Yes, exactly like the time we are presently living in, and have been since the first advent of Christ. Satan still exists and he is not without power during this age. His binding through the cross and resurrection is only that he would no longer be able to hold the nations of the world (Gentiles) in bondage to fear of death. That bondage is broken for all who hear the Gospel of the Kingdom of God proclaimed in the power of the Holy Spirit and believe in Christ for eternal/everlasting spiritual life that shall never end.

There are many days of the Lord, not just the one second coming day. The day of the GWTJ is another day of the Lord and that is when the NHNE happens.

Yes, in fact these many days of the Lord began when the Lord came to earth a man. And the power and authority began to be made known through the signs and miracles He performed, and through the power of His Holy Spirit sent at Pentecost. The last day of the Lord will come in an hour coming, when the last trumpet sounds, and there shall no longer be time/delay because then the spiritual Kingdom of God being built through the Gospel will be complete.

 

[rwb]

There is no mention of the earth passing away in 2 Peter 3, only the heavens.

"But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise."

2 Peter 3:7-8 (KJV) But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

2 Peter 3:10 (KJV) But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

2 Peter 3:12-13 (KJV) Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

 

[CadyandZoe]

If we strip away the chapter divisions added in 1227 A.D and concentrate on the theme for the context.

2 Peter 2
1 But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who secretly will bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing on themselves swift destruction.

2 Peter 3
1 Beloved, I now write this second letter to you, in which I stir up your pure mind to remember
2 the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of the Lord and Savior by us, the apostles.
3 First, knowing this, that there will come in the last days scoffers walking according to their own lusts

7 But the present heavens and the earth being kept in store by the same word, are being kept for fire until the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.

9 The Lord is not slow concerning His promise, as some count slowness, but is long-suffering toward us, not willing that any of us should perish, but that all of us should come to repentance.
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a rushing noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat. And the earth and the works in it will be burned up.

11 Then, all these things being about to be dissolved, what sort ought you to be in holy behavior and godliness,
12 looking for and rushing the coming of the Day of God, on account of which the heavens, being on fire, will melt away, and the elements will melt, burning with heat?
13 But according to His promise, we look for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.​

Who is being punished? The earth because its rocks produced evil works? Or men?

I like your answer because it makes sense of the passage. Thanks.

I often engage with individuals who hold the belief of amillennialism. They argue from 2 Peter 3 that because the world will be completely destroyed upon the return of Jesus, there can't be a thousand-year period during which Christ will reign over non-believers. If their interpretation is accurate, it poses a challenge to my perspective."

I don't think Peter's mention of fire in 2 Peter 3:7 refers to the destruction of the entire world. Instead, I believe Peter is referring to the fire predicted in Joel and Malachi, which will destroy arrogant evil-doers living in Israel. In other words, the verse is about the land of Palestine specifically, and not the world in general.

What are your thoughts?

 

[rwb]

I like your answer because it makes sense of the passage. Thanks.

I often engage with individuals who hold the belief of amillennialism. They argue from 2 Peter 3 that because the world will be completely destroyed upon the return of Jesus, there can't be a thousand-year period during which Christ will reign over non-believers. If their interpretation is accurate, it poses a challenge to my perspective."

I don't think Peter's mention of fire in 2 Peter 3:7 refers to the destruction of the entire world. Instead, I believe Peter is referring to the fire predicted in Joel and Malachi, which will destroy arrogant evil-doers living in Israel. In other words, the verse is about the land of Palestine specifically, and not the world in general.

What are your thoughts?

You're beginning to sound like a Preterit???

During the days of the flood the world then overflowed with water, perished. World then is here translated from Kosmos which as you know is orderly arrangement/adorning, including its inhabitants that all drowned by the flood waters, except for all that was in the ark. Perished without ambiguity means to destroy fully. Peter writes so it shall be on the day the Lord will come again. If this is reference for the destruction of evil-does living in Israel, why is it compared to the world and inhabitants that lived during the days of the universal flood upon the whole earth?

2 Peter 3:3-7 (KJV) Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

 

[rwb]

If you have been reading any of my other posts in this thread, it should already be clear to you as to how I view the thousand years, that I view it as time involving 24 hour day cycles. I do not agree that 24 hour cycles no longer exist once Christ returns. In my view, there is the NJ and there are nations outside of the NJ once Christ has returned. The nations outside of the NJ are still experiencing life in the same manner, where there are still seasons, there is still night and day, so on and so on.



His little season would not be the beginning of the NHNE. The beginning of the NHNE would be the beginning of the thousand years. He is then loosed to try and throw a monkey wrench, so to speak, into the new era involving the everlasting NHNE. IOW, since he already threw a monkey wrench, so to speak, into the former earth, meaning this present one, he then attemps one final go at it, thus history repeating itself.

Once again, Amil can't convincingly explain what these in Revelation 20:8 are doing during the thousand years and why they are doing what they are doing after the thousand years.

Premil, or at least my take on it anyway, can explain what these in Revelation 20:8 are doing during the thousand years and why they are doing what they are doing after the thousand years. During the thousand years they are being subjected to Christ and His saints reigning with Him, one world government. When satan is loosed they rebel against being subjected to Christ's laws and way of living during the thousand years. Zechariah 14:16-19, for one, explains who these are and where they came from. As does Daniel 7:12, though some interpreters disagree that that verse supports that, where even some Premils disagree that it does.

Therefore, until Amil can convincingly explain what these in Revelation 20:8 are doing during the thousand years and why they are doing what they are doing after the thousand years, Amil has to be rejected in the meantime, based on that alone.

You complain that Amil cannot explain some of these questions you have, but in all honesty can you here claim that Premil does? Premil is built upon guessing and opinions that enable them to read their doctrine of deception into the Word of God. If you don't even believe the Kingdom of God has come, and that it is a spiritual Kingdom that will never be visible on this earth, how in the world would you ever be able to understand things that can only be understood through Christ's Spirit in you?

 

[ewq1938]

Obviously, if you are viewing some of these things in this manner, we are never going to get on the same page here ever. The NT mentions only one day of the Lord involving end times, and that it comes as a thief in the night.

There are MANY days of the Lord. A day of the Lord is a day when God does something important.

Of course it is. Why wouldn't it be? What is the point of even bringing up that heaven and earth shall pass away if none of the surrounding context is connected with it? Why would Jesus be bringing up an unrelated subject having zero to do with anything He is saying at the time?

35 is related to 34 where he speaks of things passing away/not passing away until certain things happen.

Matthew 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

First of all, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled, is explained per this part---Heaven and earth shall pass away---which then connects verse 34 with 35 and not the way Preterists take verse 34 to mean instead.

Which then means---When this generation shall pass it then equals heaven and earth shall pass away. Which can mean only one thing at this point, verse 36 is informing us, but of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

How can the day of the Lord coming as a thief in the night(2 Peter 3:10) not fit Matthew 24:36 to a T?

A couple similar phrases does not create a perfect "T". Assuming "day of the Lord" is the same is incorrect the same as assuming only one thing can come as a thief in the night. First, Rev 20-21 does not support the NHNE happening at the Coming. There are many things that do not exist in Rev 21 that still exist in Rev 20. Rev 20-21 are chronological and in proper order. Rev 21 cannot be taken out of context and forced into Rev 20.

How can 2 Peter 3:10 remotely not be involving heaven and earth passing away, when it clearly even says so in that same verse? If the following is not heaven passing away---in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise---what is it that is passing away then? Obviously then, this also means this part---the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up--is meaning the passing away of the earth. Thus agrees with Matthew 24:35 when Jesus said heaven and earth shall pass away.

He said they would pass away but did not say at the Coming. All he said is that his words would last longer than the heaven and Earth. No statement about when they would pass away is there.

As of 2 Peter 3:10 we no longer have a habitable earth to dwell on. And unless there is a habitable earth to replace it at the time, what then? Is there such a thing as another earth between after it passes away and before a new one arrives? IOW, something like this. The old earth passes away, followed by another earth, a temporary one that is neither the first earth nor the new earth, followed by the new earth. IOW, nothing that the Bible remotely supports.

Unfortunately, you likely see my points as moot here since you are not interpreting these things in this manner. There is always the chance that I am interpreting these things correctly and that you are not. You could say the same in regards to me as well, I'm sure. But unless you can produce better, more convincing arguments than I just did here, we then end up with your opinion, where opinions alone prove nothing one way or the other vs. my arguments, where arguments at least can prove something one way or the other.

I have Rev 20-21 and what is said there about death and pain and the sea etc. All those exist in the Millennium but none exist in the NHNE. The unsaved are not in the NHNE, nor resurrect back to life in it nor are killed for a second death in it. Death does not exist in the NHNE for anyone.

 

[Timtofly]

You view of Revelation 20:4 is as follows,

Rev 20:4 Then I saw thrones, and seated on them were those to whom the authority to judge was committed. Also I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and the souls of those who had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

That is wrong. That is not what John wrote. And you are the eisegete You are the one who has eisegetically added to God's words. You are the one inserting words and meanings where none exist. But I understand. Without that sort of nonsense, then your premillennial view begins to fall apart.

There is already a verse in Revelation that declares what you are trying to force into Revelation 20:4. It is Revelation 15:2

"And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God."

These did not come to life, as they were not beheaded. Only those beheaded which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands, needed to come to life. Those on the sea of glass did not worship the beast, neither his image, nor received the mark.

Those on the sea of glass are those on white horses coming to earth in Revelation 19. This is the group you are trying to force into Revelation 20:4. These coming to earth join those who once were beheaded, but now have been given life. All of them rule and reign on earth with Christ for a thousand years.

Only those who needed to be resurrected after being beheaded are mentioned in Revelation 20:4.

 

[Timtofly]

Satan is not set free until AFTER the thousand years have ended. That means the thousand years is TIME or DELAY that shall be no longer AFTER the thousand years have ended. This TIME symbolized a thousand years was for two reasons, (1) binding Satan (2) building the Kingdom of God as the Gospel of the Kingdom is proclaimed throughout all the nations of the world. That is the TIME that shall be no longer when the seventh trumpet begins to sound. Since the purpose for Satan being bound during this time the Kingdom of God is being built, the time given that is not part of the thousand years is Satan's little season. Satan won't have his little season until AFTER the spiritual Kingdom of God in heaven is completed when the last Gentile to be saved has come into the Kingdom of God through birth from above.

That is the mystery of God that had been kept secret from old, that Gentiles would complete the spiritual Kingdom of God as the Gospel of the Kingdom goes out unto all the nations (Gentiles) of the world. The mystery of the Kingdom of God being built through Gentiles of faith is finished because the spiritual Kingdom of God shall be accomplished, the spiritual Kingdom of God complete.

Romans 11:25 (KJV) For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

Romans 16:25-26 (KJV) Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began, But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

Ephesians 3:1-7 (KJV) For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles, If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward: How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words, Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ) Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit; That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel: Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.

Ephesians 3:8-11 (KJV) Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ; And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ: To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God, According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:

Colossians 1:25-27 (KJV) Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God; Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

1 Timothy 3:16 (KJV) And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

The little season Satan shall be given comes AFTER the spiritual Kingdom of God is complete.

Satan being bound is not the mystery. Salvation of Adam's flesh is.

Revelation 10 has nothing to do with Revelation 20 per ending time as describing Satan being bound. The Millennium in Revelation 20 is the result of time being up. The Day of the Lord has none of Adam's dead corruptible flesh messing creation up. The fulness of the Gentiles is complete, so no more needing to restore the Gentiles to Christ. Daniel's 70 weeks are over, so Israel has a thousand years of everlasting righteousness and the transgression is removed as promised. This is the Sabbath of the Lord to Remember and keep Holy.

 

[Timtofly]

2 Peter 3:7-8 (KJV) But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

2 Peter 3:10 (KJV) But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

2 Peter 3:12-13 (KJV) Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

It says the works are burned up, not that the earth passes away. If the earth is returned to God in that condition, that would be a burnt offering. None of the works are burned up when Jesus hands creation back to God. He must reign until the earth is subdued. That means full and vibrant with life, not a burnt sacrifice.

This current earth is made alive per Paul in 1 Corinthians 15. That is not being burned up. Burned up would be made dead, not made alive.

 

[rwb]

Satan being bound is not the mystery. Salvation of Adam's flesh is.

Revelation 10 has nothing to do with Revelation 20 per ending time as describing Satan being bound. The Millennium in Revelation 20 is the result of time being up. The Day of the Lord has none of Adam's dead corruptible flesh messing creation up. The fulness of the Gentiles is complete, so no more needing to restore the Gentiles to Christ. Daniel's 70 weeks are over, so Israel has a thousand years of everlasting righteousness and the transgression is removed as promised. This is the Sabbath of the Lord to Remember and keep Holy.

I agree, and have never said otherwise. The mystery revealed is that Gentiles not Jews shall complete/fill up/finish building the spiritual Kingdom of God as they are born again.

But I'm not surprised that you would come up with some imaginative understanding of what I've actually stated. It's next to impossible to have any exchange with people like you who seem have no ability to discuss what is actually said, but instead makes up the most ridiculous things and then pretends to believe you think this is what was actually said. Your doctrine is hands down one of the most bizarre doctrines I've come across over the many years of posting in the forums.

 

[rwb]

It says the works are burned up, not that the earth passes away. If the earth is returned to God in that condition, that would be a burnt offering. None of the works are burned up when Jesus hands creation back to God. He must reign until the earth is subdued. That means full and vibrant with life, not a burnt sacrifice.

This current earth is made alive per Paul in 1 Corinthians 15. That is not being burned up. Burned up would be made dead, not made alive.

"and the EARTH"...................."reserved unto fire"! Do you think this fire reserved for the earth shall not burn it up????????????? Wake UP!

2 Peter 3:7-8 (KJV) But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

 

[Davidpt]

"and the EARTH"...................."reserved unto fire"! Do you think this fire reserved for the earth shall not burn it up????????????? Wake UP!

2 Peter 3:7-8 (KJV) But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Total nonsense that that is to be taken in the literal sense. As if God is just going to wipe out the entire animal kingdom in the process. Not to mention, every single tree and plant on the planet. Plus, he is going to burn alive infants, children, adults throughout the planet. Are you going to argue that He did not do those things per Noah's flood? Drown infants, children, adults throughout the planet? This is yet another reason why the entire planet can't literally be engulfed in flames at some point since it would mean God has to burn up infants, etc, as opposed to drowning them, and that unlike the first time around, where there was a way to preserve the animal kingdom, this time around there would be no way to preserve it if the entire planet is literally engulfed in flames.

He didn't even do that during Noah's flood, wipe out the entire animal kingdom. Where is the ark that preserves the animal kingdom per your literal nonsensical interpretation of some of these verses in 2 Peter 3? As if anyone could build an ark to begin with that could withstand the immense heat, smoke, and everything else an entire planet engulfed in literal flames of fire would be doing to any and all mortal lifeforms on the planet at the time.

Zechariah 14:16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.
17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.
18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.


It really looks like all these mortals here got burned up with the planet during the events involving 2 Peter 3:10, doesn't it?

 

[Davidpt]

It says the works are burned up, not that the earth passes away. If the earth is returned to God in that condition, that would be a burnt offering. None of the works are burned up when Jesus hands creation back to God. He must reign until the earth is subdued. That means full and vibrant with life, not a burnt sacrifice.

This current earth is made alive per Paul in 1 Corinthians 15. That is not being burned up. Burned up would be made dead, not made alive.

One problem is that some interpreters are taking too many of these things in the literal sense. The earth can pass away without it having to be literally engulfed in flames in order to do so.

 

[rwb]

Total nonsense that that is to be taken in the literal sense. As if God is just going to wipe out the entire animal kingdom in the process. Not to mention, every single tree and plant on the planet. Plus, he is going to burn alive infants, children, adults throughout the planet. Are you going to argue that He did not do those things per Noah's flood? Drown infants, children, adults throughout the planet? This is yet another reason why the entire planet can't literally be engulfed in flames at some point since it would mean God has to burn up infants, etc, as opposed to drowning them, and that unlike the first time around, where there was a way to preserve the animal kingdom, this time around there would be no way to preserve it if the entire planet is literally engulfed in flames.

He didn't even do that during Noah's flood, wipe out the entire animal kingdom. Where is the ark that preserves the animal kingdom per your literal nonsensical interpretation of some of these verses in 2 Peter 3? As if anyone could build an ark to begin with that could withstand the immense heat, smoke, and everything else an entire planet engulfed in literal flames of fire would be doing to any and all mortal lifeform on the planet at the time.

This reply has no basis in biblical truth, and instead reeks with human emotionalism. The flood waters that God sent upon the earth physically, completely destroyed every living, breathing creature upon the earth. Yes, that included all animal, and plant life as well as infants and children, all humanity that were not safely secured in the ark.

The reason God, through Noah preserved some of the animals is because He was not at that time finished dealing with physical beings. Animals too still have a purpose in the plans of God for mankind. Those whom God determined to be clean would be used in sacrificial and ceremonial laws that would come from God. The rest of the animal kingdom after the flood would also serve the purpose for providing food for mankind. It was after the flood that animals as well as the fruit from plants would provide man with nourishment. Not to mention how God would use animals throughout Scripture to demonstrate His power over even them, as well as using animals to kill some humans.

If God has a plan for having animals on the new earth, do you think He cannot raise even them to life again?

Every living thing upon the earth as well as the whole earth itself shall be utterly burned up by the fire of God's wrath that shall come down from heaven! Stop allowing your feelings and emotions to inform your doctrine, and use your God given brain to BELIEVE what God has said shall come to pass in the days when the seventh trumpet begins to sound.

 

[rwb]

One problem is that some interpreters are taking too many of these things in the literal sense. The earth can pass away without it having to be literally engulfed in flames in order to do so.

The earth that now is, is being preserved for fire! Do you really believe the fire of God's wrath that comes down will selectively burn up only that which YOU THINK are deserving of destruction? Get real!