CALVINISM: The height of Spiritual depravity
- Thread starter Robert Pate
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Jesus said scripture cannot be broken.
I just read scripture, as it comes, as it is written.
Because of some of the things Paul wrote, some claim Paul was a false teacher, imagine that.
They don't like the scriptures as written, so they ignore them at best or worse go on the attack against said scriptures.
And also attack the people exposing scriptures to them.
They have done this from the beginning. They did this to Christ too,
Ritajanice
Born-Again
You gave no such thing,,,you the same as the other poster put your own spin on that scripture meaning as did John Calvin...who was pretty sick and depraved to think and write such a ridiculous statement...God is fair and just.....John Calvin wasn’t...I would never hold to his twisted teachings of scripture..
Disciples left Christ because He said things that offended them, which would be going against what they thought of God.
Christ then explains why they left Him. The reason, God had not granted them to come to Christ and believe in Christ.
God has to grant you your belief in His Son, which pretty much most people are opposed to that truth.
John 6
61 When Jesus knew in Himself that His disciples [n]complained about this, He said to them, “Does this [o]offend you? 62 What then if you should see the Son of Man ascend where He was before? 63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life. 64 But there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who would betray Him. 65 And He said, “Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father.”
66 From that time many of His disciples went [p]back and walked with Him no more. 67 Then Jesus said to the twelve, “Do you also want to go away?”
68 But Simon Peter answered Him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life. 69 Also we have come to believe and know that You are the [q]Christ, the Son of the living God.”
Christ then explains why they left Him. The reason, God had not granted them to come to Christ and believe in Christ.
God has to grant you your belief in His Son, which pretty much most people are opposed to that truth.
John 6
Many Disciples Turn Away
60 Therefore many of His disciples, when they heard this, said, “This is a [m]hard saying; who can understand it?”61 When Jesus knew in Himself that His disciples [n]complained about this, He said to them, “Does this [o]offend you? 62 What then if you should see the Son of Man ascend where He was before? 63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life. 64 But there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who would betray Him. 65 And He said, “Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father.”
66 From that time many of His disciples went [p]back and walked with Him no more. 67 Then Jesus said to the twelve, “Do you also want to go away?”
68 But Simon Peter answered Him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life. 69 Also we have come to believe and know that You are the [q]Christ, the Son of the living God.”
Actually your spinning the scriptures backwards, see I can say the same of you.
Ritajanice
Born-Again
Ritajanice
Born-Again
Dispute what?
Many Disciples Desert Jesus
60 On hearing it, many of his disciples said, “This is a hard teaching. Who can accept it?”61 Aware that his disciples were grumbling about this, Jesus said to them, “Does this offend you? 62 Then what if you see the Son of Man ascend to where he was before! 63 The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you—they are full of the Spirit[e] and life. 64 Yet there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus had known from the beginning which of them did not believe and who would betray him. 65 He went on to say, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled them.”
66 From this time many of his disciples turned back and no longer followed him.
67 “You do not want to leave too, do you?” Jesus asked the Twelve.
68 Simon Peter answered him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life. 69 We have come to believe and to know that you are the Holy One of God.”
70 Then Jesus replied, “Have I not chosen you, the Twelve? Yet one of you is a devil!” 71 (He meant Judas, the son of Simon Iscariot, who, though one of the Twelve, was later to betray him.)
Scripture is more than opinions. I am just reading scripture, what it says.
Too easy to hide from scripture by saying this word means something other than it says in context.
The choice being God's decision as to who will believe in Christ.
Dispute about why some people believe in Christ and some do not believe Christ.
The ones God grants to come to Christ as opposed to the others, the unbelievers.
That is not at all part of the scripture being discussed as in God granting some person in the future to come to Christ.
Sounds like you don't want to face the reality of What Christ says here.
Dispute this one also
God grants to individual persons their faith in Christ, meaning their salvation versus those who are not saved.
Those who receive Perdition means a destiny of HELL
While those who receive Salvation means a destiny of Heaven,
'and that from God'
Philippians 1
29 For to you it has been granted on behalf of Christ, not only to believe in Him, but also to suffer for His sake, 30 having the same conflict which you saw in me and now hear is in me.
God grants to individual persons their faith in Christ, meaning their salvation versus those who are not saved.
Those who receive Perdition means a destiny of HELL
While those who receive Salvation means a destiny of Heaven,
'and that from God'
Philippians 1
Striving and Suffering for Christ
27 Only let your conduct be worthy of the gospel of Christ, so that whether I come and see you or am absent, I may hear of your affairs, that you stand fast in one spirit, with one mind striving together for the faith of the gospel, 28 and not in any way terrified by your adversaries, which is to them a proof of perdition, but [f]to you of salvation, and that from God.29 For to you it has been granted on behalf of Christ, not only to believe in Him, but also to suffer for His sake, 30 having the same conflict which you saw in me and now hear is in me.
To those God has granted to come and know Christ and Father God, is easily proved by many scriptures, some of which I do post in this thread. Not only God says that, Christ also says the same thing, doing what He sees the Father doing.
John 5:19
Then Jesus answered and said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of Himself, but what He sees the Father do; for whatever He does, the Son also does in like manner.
When Jesus said he and the Father are one, If you have seen Me, you have seen the Father, it really is true. they are in total agreement; Christ always does what pleases the Father
John 5:19
Then Jesus answered and said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of Himself, but what He sees the Father do; for whatever He does, the Son also does in like manner.
When Jesus said he and the Father are one, If you have seen Me, you have seen the Father, it really is true. they are in total agreement; Christ always does what pleases the Father
Faith comes by hearing and believing the Gospel, Romans 1:17. No one is assigned to hell. If anyone Goes to hell it is because they don't believe.
Christ aids the seed of Abraham, meaning He aids those who will inherit salvation. Christ does not pray-intercede for the unbelieving world, as they are not of God the Father. Not born again by the Spirit, not foreknown as His.
Christ gets His children-believers from God, they are given to Him as God foreknew His people from before the foundation of the world.
Christ to gather into one flock God's children scattered over the earth through time and space
John 17
9 “I pray for them. I do not pray for the world but for those whom You have given Me, for they are Yours. 10 And all Mine are Yours, and Yours are Mine, and I am glorified in them.
Hebrews 2
“I will declare Your name to My brethren;
In the midst of the assembly I will sing praise to You.”
13 And again:
“I will put My trust in Him.”
And again:
“Here am I and the children whom God has given Me.”
14 Inasmuch then as the children have partaken of flesh and blood, He Himself likewise shared in the same, that through death He might destroy him who had the power of death, that is, the devil, 15 and release those who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage. 16 For indeed He does not [h]give aid to angels, but He does [i]give aid to the seed of Abraham. 17 Therefore, in all things He had to be made like His brethren, that He might be a merciful and faithful High Priest in things pertaining to God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people. 18 For in that He Himself has suffered, being [j]tempted, He is able to aid those who are tempted.
Christ gets His children-believers from God, they are given to Him as God foreknew His people from before the foundation of the world.
Christ to gather into one flock God's children scattered over the earth through time and space
John 17
Jesus Prays for His Disciples
6 “I have [c]manifested Your name to the men whom You have given Me out of the world. They were Yours, You gave them to Me, and they have kept Your word. 7 Now they have known that all things which You have given Me are from You. 8 For I have given to them the words which You have given Me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came forth from You; and they have believed that You sent Me.9 “I pray for them. I do not pray for the world but for those whom You have given Me, for they are Yours. 10 And all Mine are Yours, and Yours are Mine, and I am glorified in them.
Hebrews 2
Bringing Many Sons to Glory
10 For it was fitting for Him, for whom are all things and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons to glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings. 11 For both He who [g]sanctifies and those who are being sanctified are all of one, for which reason He is not ashamed to call them brethren, 12 saying:“I will declare Your name to My brethren;
In the midst of the assembly I will sing praise to You.”
13 And again:
“I will put My trust in Him.”
And again:
“Here am I and the children whom God has given Me.”
14 Inasmuch then as the children have partaken of flesh and blood, He Himself likewise shared in the same, that through death He might destroy him who had the power of death, that is, the devil, 15 and release those who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage. 16 For indeed He does not [h]give aid to angels, but He does [i]give aid to the seed of Abraham. 17 Therefore, in all things He had to be made like His brethren, that He might be a merciful and faithful High Priest in things pertaining to God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people. 18 For in that He Himself has suffered, being [j]tempted, He is able to aid those who are tempted.
The whole discussion though is WHY do people believe in Christ, not that believers go to Heaven.
This here shows Christ came only for the children of God
Christ came for the children to save them, the people of God, the ones God foreknew as His people.
“I pray for them. I do not pray for the world but for those whom You have given Me, for they are Yours. 10 And all Mine are Yours, and Yours are Mine, and I am glorified in them.
“Here am I and the children whom God has given Me.”
14 Inasmuch then as the children have partaken of flesh and blood, He Himself likewise shared in the same, that through death He might destroy him who had the power of death, that is, the devil, 15 and release those who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage. 16 For indeed He does not [h]give aid to angels, but He does [i]give aid to the seed of Abraham. 17 Therefore, in all things He had to be made like His brethren, that He might be a merciful and faithful High Priest in things pertaining to God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people. 18 For in that He Himself has suffered, being [j]tempted, He is able to aid those who are tempted.
Christ came for the children to save them, the people of God, the ones God foreknew as His people.
“I pray for them. I do not pray for the world but for those whom You have given Me, for they are Yours. 10 And all Mine are Yours, and Yours are Mine, and I am glorified in them.
“Here am I and the children whom God has given Me.”
14 Inasmuch then as the children have partaken of flesh and blood, He Himself likewise shared in the same, that through death He might destroy him who had the power of death, that is, the devil, 15 and release those who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage. 16 For indeed He does not [h]give aid to angels, but He does [i]give aid to the seed of Abraham. 17 Therefore, in all things He had to be made like His brethren, that He might be a merciful and faithful High Priest in things pertaining to God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people. 18 For in that He Himself has suffered, being [j]tempted, He is able to aid those who are tempted.
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
Rita, inj lo9ve I tell you, slipping into teh old mindset is callerd sin.
Remember Paul called teh church in corinthians saints. He also said that at times they were carnal. In you rparlance he said they slipped into their old mindset.
We all still fail because we are human. but Gods love is far greater than our weakness.
We are forever in Christ positionally, but experientially we at times slip into the old mindset/the old man/ filled with sin.
Ritajanice
Born-Again
No it’s not...I don’t agree.
I’ve already posted scripture, which for some reason you dismiss....a Born Again does not continue to sin because they have been Born Again of imperishable seed?
What does that mean?...being Born Again of imperishable seed?
1 John 3:9
1 John 3:9 KJV
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.Similar threads
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