Did Jesus say that adultery is grounds for divorce? - Nope.
- Thread starter St. SteVen
- Start date
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This, I can agree with. It shouldn't be needed .....but sometimes, it is. Men (and women) do horrible things. When my parents divorced, I was relieved not to have a sexual abuser in the home. And when they remarried .....I was very unhappy about it ....although I wished in my heart that they would both turn to Christ and be healed/healthy. When they remarried, neither were healed or healthy, nor walking with God.
Key word here. lol
Word definitions are extremely important. If you have no understanding, or an incomplete understanding of a word, you can make it mean anything you want it to mean.
Ritajanice
Born-Again
I can relate to this,Sis...horrendous for a youngster to go through.
Aunty Jane
Well-Known Member
I do understand your perspective.....I just think that the scriptures disagree with your take on it....
Yes, God was all for fairness.....women did not have much in the way of rights back then, but God’s law was to protect all parties as life in Israel was lived and understood. If caught in the act of ‘porneia’ BOTH parties were put to death. But you could not convict someone of a sexual crime with no proof, which is why proof of virginity was required of the woman.....a man could not furnish such proof.
Jesus came and turned everything on its ear. The Jews were under Roman domination at that time, so they had no authority to put anyone to death.
It still took courage to stand clear of corrupt Judaism and its insistence on the letter of the law, whilst failing to comprehend its spiritual applications entirely. It became all about performance just as it was and still is in Roman Catholicism and in many Protestant churches.
“Works” can’t ever earn you life.....but without them your faith is dead. You prove your faith by your works. (James 2:18-20) am
No need...it’s already been spelled out.
That saw cuts both ways.
Cultural understanding is extremely important. If you have no understanding, or an incomplete understanding of the culture, you can make it mean anything you want it to mean.
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It's so prevalent and so tragic.
I have a photo that was taken at my parents' 2nd wedding. I was 17 and my sister was 19 ....our brother was 14. It was a family photo of our parents, us 3 siblings, my brother-in-law, and my newborn niece. The looks on my face and my sisters ....we both looked extremely distressed. My sister has no recollection of that day. She believed she wasn't even there until she saw the photo. My memory of that day is very very vague. My earliest memories were of sexual trauma/abuse ....and I mean before I could walk and talk. And I always remembered hanging out outside my body at age 2 when my father and uncle went to our bedroom. I had already learned that being in the body wasn't safe.
When I was 3 and my sister had just turned 6, my mother caught my dad in the act of sexual abuse and packed us kids up to leave. He begged her to stay and promised he'd never do it again. She stayed. Goodness ..... it's possible things could have been very different for us had she left and divorced him back then.
BlessedPeace
Well-Known Member
Yes,that's what Jesus said. And except for adultery as grounds for divorce,any other action for divorce makes remarriage adultery.
Which is why adultery is grounds for divorce,and remarriage after that allowed because it isn't adultery. Unlike fornication with someone not ones spouse is adultery.
Thanks for asking. :)
I was already aware of those details around Jewish culture. And yet, Jesus still used the word porneia. lol
And the definition of the word He chose to use is more broad than just fornication. Facts.
Jesus shook up a lot of things related to Jewish culture and traditions.
1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
Do you have scripture where Jesus says you can have more than one wife? ....concubines? ....sex slaves?
1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
Restating......
The simple truth is that the word that is translated as "fornication" in Matthew 19:9 is porneia and it includes not only fornication, but also incest, idolatry, harlotry, and adultery.
Greek: πορνεία
Transliteration: porneia
Pronunciation: por-ni'-ah
Definition: From G4203; harlotry (including adultery and incest); figuratively idolatry: - fornication.
It doesn't change the logic at all of what Jesus was saying. If one's spouse has committed fornication, adultery, incest, harlotry, idolatry ....that is grounds for divorce. If the divorce for any other reason, and remarry, they are guilty of adultery. Why? Because what God has joined together, let no man put asunder.
ADD: Do you think Jesus knew all about the OT, Jewish culture, etc? Yes, He did. And yet, He chose to use a word that had a much broader meaning. Jesus brought things to a whole new and deeper level.
Example:
Matthew 5:27-28
[27]Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
[28]But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
The simple truth is that the word that is translated as "fornication" in Matthew 19:9 is porneia and it includes not only fornication, but also incest, idolatry, harlotry, and adultery.
Greek: πορνεία
Transliteration: porneia
Pronunciation: por-ni'-ah
Definition: From G4203; harlotry (including adultery and incest); figuratively idolatry: - fornication.
It doesn't change the logic at all of what Jesus was saying. If one's spouse has committed fornication, adultery, incest, harlotry, idolatry ....that is grounds for divorce. If the divorce for any other reason, and remarry, they are guilty of adultery. Why? Because what God has joined together, let no man put asunder.
ADD: Do you think Jesus knew all about the OT, Jewish culture, etc? Yes, He did. And yet, He chose to use a word that had a much broader meaning. Jesus brought things to a whole new and deeper level.
Example:
Matthew 5:27-28
[27]Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
[28]But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
Not much support of the idea on the thread.
Fine folks are overlooking the cultural facts to obsess on a broad word definition which is spurious in my view.
Thanks for joining us. Maybe you can bring some clarity from your view?
/
Go ahead and disregard Jesus' own words.
Good night.
St. SteVen said:
Do you have scripture where Jesus approves of women divorcing their husbands?
There is no prohibition of the standard cultural practices in Jesus' day, nor in the early church.
Make of that what you will. Polygamy, concubines, prostitutes and slaves were common.
That's doesn't mean that I approve. It is what it is.
For the record. I am a man of one wife. I have no other wives, nor concubines, nor do I use prostitutes.
Your argument is not with me.
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Do you have scripture where Jesus approves of women divorcing their husbands?
An argument from silence? Is that your answer?
There is no prohibition of the standard cultural practices in Jesus' day, nor in the early church.
Make of that what you will. Polygamy, concubines, prostitutes and slaves were common.
That's doesn't mean that I approve. It is what it is.
For the record. I am a man of one wife. I have no other wives, nor concubines, nor do I use prostitutes.
Your argument is not with me.
/
1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
Not many people on the forums care whether they sin or not. And there are not very many adult virgins.
Don't put that on me. We have a disagreement about what Jesus' words are on the subject.
/
Thanks.
I value your opinion on this.
All I can can conclude from this is that Jesus is not supporting divorce,
except in the Jewish cultural/legal situation of a non-virgin wife.
Similar to dishonest measures in the marketplace.
A bride as a promised virgin who is not.
The big question is what do we do with this teaching in a modern context.
As you indicated, "there are not very many adult virgins."
I can't seem to get topic participates to deal with the question because they are
totally onboard with the church that supports divorce for sexual immorality.
Which seems hypocritical when there are not very many adult virgins.
/
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