Homosexuality: Wrong or Right?

[St. SteVen]

Well, let me tell you something.... Y'all can use whatever workarounds you want to but God will not be second guessed on this one.

Were you brave enough to view this video?

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[GracePeace]

Not true.
Our modern view is our own.
We have lost touch with the culture and history from which our own beliefs were
created independently of the beginnings of Christianity and before.

Have you seen this forum topic?

Does the "husband of one wife" requirement mean that polygamy was common in the early church?

Why does the Apostle Paul require that church Elders be the "husband of one wife" if polygamy wasn't common in the church? Titus 1:5-6 ESV This is why I left you in Crete, so that you might put what remained into order, and appoint elders in every town as I directed you— 6 if anyone is...

www.christianityboard.com

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Polygamy had been permitted as a concession, but it wasn't God's ideal, and, since leaders are to be emulated, leaders were to live by the newly restored Genesis standard of one man one wife.

 

[St. SteVen]

Many very normal men would admit in secret that they have had such close male friends where there was the homoerotic element in the friendship. Guys, be careful how forcefully you deny this, for that can be telling also. Homophobic men do tend to have homosexual inclinations to some degree -

I actually have a friend that loves me so deeply that his wife is actually jealous. - LOL

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[St. SteVen]

Polygamy had been permitted as a concession, but it wasn't God's ideal, and, since leaders are to be emulated, leaders were to live by the newly restored Genesis standard of one man one wife.

Or they already had enough on their plate, they wouldn't do a proper job of church leadership.
The Apostle ONLY made this requirement of leadership, no one else.

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[GracePeace]

Tell that to the young teen that realizes they have always had a same-sex attraction.
They know they don't dare tell anyone or it will be trouble.

Where's the sin?

And adult Christians that come out of a gay lifestyle say that the same-sex attraction never goes away.

Transgender preferences become apparent in children between 3 to 5 years old.

Where's the sin?

What does the church do to help? We protest gay pride parades. Big help!

Where's the sin? (in the church)

So, from that perspective, I agree.
The way the church handles homosexuality is first and foremost a spiritual problem, like all sins.

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What if someone always had attraction to married women? Should he come out as "adulterous Christian"? No, just repent and deny himself like Christ says. Same with homosexuality.

 

[David in NJ]

Polygamy had been permitted as a concession, but it wasn't God's ideal, and, since leaders are to be emulated, leaders were to live by the newly restored Genesis standard of one man one wife.

Polgamy, while not the original 'one-to-one M/F' does not violate the sexual purity of M2F marriage.

Acts 17:29
Therefore, since we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Divine Nature is like gold or silver or stone, something shaped by art and man’s devising. Truly, these times of ignorance God overlooked, but now commands all men everywhere to repent, because He has appointed a day on which He will judge the world in righteousness by the Man whom He has ordained. He has given assurance of this to all by raising Him from the dead.”

 

[GracePeace]

Why not take the time to study fornication in the scriptures and see if there is any way you can apply that to homosexuality. The scriptures disprove your point clearly.

The Greek the many translations translate as some form of homosexual, arsenokoites, is without question distinguished from the fornicator or adulterer:

"Or know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with men(arsenokoites or sodomites)," (1Cor 6:9 ASV)

"...for fornicators, for abusers of themselves with men(arsenokoites or sodomites), for menstealers, for liars, for false swearers, and if there be any other thing contrary to the sound doctrine; (1Tim 1:10 ASV)

The Greek arsenokoites, which is accurately translated as "sodomites" rather than "homosexuals" is both the verses above is distinguished from adulterers and fornicators. You may find some Greek-English Lexicon that classes homosexuality with fornication, but that is meaningless if you can't show it in the word of God. Any passage I can find with fornication mentioned that shows the sexes involved, it is never male with male.

GracePeace, when you make a bold statement as "Yeah, there's even a word for it : 'fornication', be prepared to show it in scripture, rather than in the writings of men, who just might be a little bit homophobic.

It's not a coincidence that homosexuality is not celebrated in Scripture, and heterosexual marriage is--and when homosexuality is mentioned, it's always negatively. You can try to do your little tap dance rearranging chairs on the titanic, but it's always mentioned in a negative light. I don't consider that to be a coincidence.

It's contrary to God's intention for sexuality--"Be fruitful and multiply".

No, homosexuality will never be acceptable to God or His people.

 

[GracePeace]

Or they already had enough on their plate, they wouldn't do a proper job of church leadership.
The Apostle ONLY made this requirement of leadership, no one else.

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Because leaders are examples for others to follow, it quickly gets the people on the same page with God.

 

[St. SteVen]

What if someone always had attraction to married women? Should he come out as "adulterous Christian"? No, just repent and deny himself like Christ says. Same with homosexuality.

LOL
No, but I imagine that attraction may never go away in them.
Actually I think it is quite common in Christian men.
Fueled by the fact that their own wives don't want to have sex with them.

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[St. SteVen]

Because leaders are examples for others to follow, it quickly gets the people on the same page with God.

On the same page with God?
Where is polygamy prohibited in the Bible except for church Elders?
You are imposing a modern societal view on the Bible.

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[Rella ~ I am a woman]

Were you brave enough to view this video?

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Not all of 1 hour and 58 minutes worth, NO. But enough to get the jest. And no I did not deliberately cut things short. I also rarely get to watch a 2 hour long movie to the end.

But that is beside the point.

I also would not watch a video from scientists who claim the universe is 13.8 billion years old.

Just because they are called schollars does not hold weight with me, any more then every man of the cloth does when it comes to things religious.

Harvard President Claudine Gay would be considered by some as a scholar. Not by me.

Especially based of Websters definition

scholar​

noun​

schol·ar ˈskä-lər

Synonyms of scholar
1
: a person who attends a school or studies under a teacher : PUPIL

2
a
: a person who has done advanced study in a special field
b
: a learned person

3
: a holder of a scholarship

Simply because a person is studied in a field does not necessarily make them right in their
conclusions.

Same for scientists.

For every group that collaborates to a consensus one way, you will find another that goes the opposite.

You will note that God did not call the homosexual person or lesbian an abomination.

He called the act as such.

Now... I am sorry for anyone who is born with this affliction. But abstinence is a lifestyle that needs to be developed.

I am fully heterosexual as far as I know. Never married and abstinence, while not easy has been doable.

I had a close friend ... male... who was born totally A-sexual. That was easy for him.

A Jewish son of a friend was born a hermaphrodite. It was revealed to the mother at his circumcision.

We all have our personal crosses to bear... as it were.

But for Pete's sake people, stop twisting what the obvious intent of the Holy Words are.

 

[Arthur81]

I actually have a friend that loves me so deeply that his wife is actually jealous. - LOL

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You're a brave man, Steve! hahaha... I wonder how long it will be before someone calls either you or your friend gay?

 

[GracePeace]

On the same page with God?
Where is polygamy prohibited in the Bible except for church Elders?
You are imposing a modern societal view on the Bible.

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God permitted things before (eg, "any cause" divorce under Torah) that He now wants done away with. Polygamy was one of them. His standard was one man and one woman in the beginning, and He restored that standard.

 

[Taken]

David, where is that "very clear and precise scripture" that states any sex outside of marriage of man with woman, is sin. You made the claim, now prove it. The best you can do is cobble together verses to make a theological construction, based on your fallible, human reasoning. That is the subject upon which I made comment.

It’s that balancing between what do we want to Label “sex outside of marriage between a man and a woman” …
* Disobedience of what God teaches is a GOOD / Favorable PRECEPT for man-KIND.
* A Sin Against God.
* A Trespass of a husband or wife, engaging in sex outside of “their” marriage.

Fact is whatever one Labels it…the consequences “maybe momentarily favorable”…but more times than Not, long term consequences are Not favorable….
From “un-desired pregnancies”, STD’s, Reputation tainted, shame, hurt emotions, financial strain, etc.

 

[St. SteVen]

Not all of 1 hour and 58 minutes worth, NO. But enough to get the jest.

Thank you.
You have done more than the majority here.

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[GracePeace]

Thank you.
You have done more than the majority here.

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What, you didn't like my commentary? Lol

 

[St. SteVen]

What, you didn't like my commentary? Lol

Nope, your commentary was mighty fine. :cool:

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[Arthur81]

It’s that balancing between what do we want to Label “sex outside of marriage between a man and a woman” …
* Disobedience of what God teaches is a GOOD / Favorable PRECEPT for man-KIND.
* A Sin Against God.
* A Trespass of a husband or wife, engaging in sex outside of “their” marriage.

Fact is whatever one Labels it…the consequences “maybe momentarily favorable”…but more times than Not, long term consequences are Not favorable….
From “un-desired pregnancies”, STD’s, Reputation tainted, shame, hurt emotions, financial strain, etc.

In Genesis, the last verse of chapter one reads:

"God saw everything that he had made, and indeed, it was very good. And there was evening and there was morning, the sixth day." (Gen 1:31 NRSV)

I take that to include man, whom the One God of infinite perfections, would only create righteous and holy, not merely innocent.

In the next chapter I see a utilitarian use of "good":

"Out of the ground the LORD God made to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight and good for food, the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil." (Gen 2:9 NRSV)

Some trees God created good to provide food, and that would be a perfection as well. But that has nothing to do with righteousness. After man sinned, and the fall of man began, the goodness of creation such as the introduction of "thorns and thistles" introduced an imperfection; but that would not be defined as sin, or unrighteousness. It was not the utilitarian good of creation, but not sin. In like manner, many things about the creation of man became marred and not in accord with the perfection or good of the creation; but they are not sin. Any sort of physical, emotional or mental anomaly, or birth defect can happen without a moral condemnation in it.

 

[Arthur81]

What answers does the conservative church give to the male of fully homosexual orientation, who does not have the "gift" of abstinence? My question is aimed at the the historic churches coming out of the Protestant Reformation such as the Presbyterians and the Particular or Reformed Baptist Churches, along with Lutherans and Anglicans, etc. I have no interest in the TV evangelist follower, faith healer types in Pentecostal and Charismatic Churches, my question is just to those of orthodox Christian doctrine. Do the historic churches of Christ have workable answers for such men? I have not heard or read them so far.

 

[St. SteVen]

What answers does the conservative church give to the male of fully homosexual orientation, who does not have the "gift" of abstinence? My question is aimed at the the historic churches coming out of the Protestant Reformation such as the Presbyterians and the Particular or Reformed Baptist Churches, along with Lutherans and Anglicans, etc. I have no interest in the TV evangelist follower, faith healer types in Pentecostal and Charismatic Churches, my question is just to those of orthodox Christian doctrine. Do the historic churches of Christ have workable answers for such men? I have not heard or read them so far.

There now exists a national (US and Canada) registry of gay affirming churches. Gay Affirming Christian Churches; Homosexuality & the Bible
Thousands of churches. This is no small thing. These churches are moving ahead. Leaving the others behind.

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