They will reign with Him a thousand years and making an unknown Greek out of the English New Testament

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rwb

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Again, it's not talking about the bodies of flesh we now have. It's talking about resurrected bodies, and John does indeed say they are in their resurrected bodies. By use of the word zao. Then he calls it the first resurrection.

John cannot be seeing them in resurrected bodies (whatever you think that might be) since the dead body shall not be resurrected until an hour coming when the last trumpet sounds. That's also when time shall be no longer (Rev 10) John writes they LIVED and REIGNED (PAST TENSE) a thousand years, not ONE thousand years you seem to imply???

This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Notice both the martyred saints who lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years is the same amount of time the blessed and holy shall also reign with Christ. That SHOULD tell you a thousand years cannot be literally one thousand years that shall be after Christ comes again. A time when you appear to believe these martyred saints will be resurrected first then one thousand years later there will be another bodily resurrection for the rest of the dead. I'm really making assumptions here about what you believe. Because it is often truly a mystery to me.
 

rwb

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No, the resurrection involves a physical body. It's a new body as you have mentioned, but this is not a spiritual resurrection. It takes place at the second coming.

The second resurrection is also physical, but the same old body not a new body because the old body must die a second time with no hope of a resurrection.

Totally unbiblical!
 

JBO

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No, the resurrection involves a physical body. It's a new body as you have mentioned, but this is not a spiritual resurrection. It takes place at the second coming.

1Co 15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown a perishable body, it is raised an imperishable body;
1Co 15:43 it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power;

1Co 15:44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.
 
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JBO

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The whole point of God becoming a human being and bearing our sins on the cross and dying and rising again from death on the third day, is so that Adam's death (i.e his body dying) would be undone.
Everyone dies. Nothing changed that.
1. Adams death that is shared by all the sons of Adam, because all sinned.
Adam's death has nothing to do with us in any way at all. We don't sin because Adam did and we don't die because Adam did.
That's the whole point of Paul's discussion in 1 Corinthians 15. You're taking away from scripture, and adding to scripture, and expressing a doctrine regarding the resurrection that is neither biblical, nor true.
That is you in spades and your physical eternal life.
 

Davidpt

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The verse says they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. That means they were in life faithful unto death. John does not say they lived again in bodies of flesh.

Why wouldn't they live again in a body of flesh after having been dead? If they don't ever do that how can they live forever in the new Jerusalem? Keeping in mind, if they already began living again as of the first resurrection, they don't need to live yet again in the future, as in 2 resurrections that they partake of altogether. Once Jesus was dead then lived again, was that in a body of flesh or not? Did He need to be resurrected twice meaning at different times?

Once again, it is ludricrous that the bodily resurrection of the saints can't be found recorded in Revelation 20. That John never saw a bodily resurrection of the saints, he only saw a spiritual resurrection of them, whatever that's supposed to look like. Which then doesn't explain this part---And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them. When was there ever this judgment in question 2000 years ago where judgment was given unto them at the time?

Where can I read about that judgment in the Bible? I can tell you where. Daniel 7 for one, verse 22 which is also involving verses 9-12. And according to that verse that is meaning after the era of time verse 21 is involving. 2000 years ago, meaning the beginning of Amil's proposed thousand years, there were no events matching Daniel 7:21 that preceded the beginning of Amil's proposed thousand years. IOW, Amil makes nonsense out of chronological events such as Daniel 7:21-22.
 
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Davidpt

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John very clearly says these saints were martyred for their faith before they died. They nor any other who are dead in the graves shall be bodily resurrected until an hour coming when the last trumpet sounds. John in vs 4 doesn't even mention the first resurrection, why? Could it be because they were not resurrected bodily but ascended to heaven with Christ a spiritual body of believers?

So now, the fact John doesn't mention the first resurrection in verse 4, nothing in verse 4 is pertaining to the first resurrection? Is that what you are saying? Does this then mean you agree the first resurrection is the bodily resurrection of the saints after all? That's what it appears to me that you are arguing. That since verse 4 does not mention the first resurrection, it therefore is not involving a bodily resurrection but is meaning ascending to heaven with Christ as a spiritual body of believers.

What about verse 6?

Revelation 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Does not this verse mention the first resurrection? And not only does it mention that, it mentions reigning with Christ a thousand years, the very same thing verse 4 makes mention of. Obviously then, in verse 5 when it says this is the first resurrection, it is pertaining to verse 4 where verse 6 then adds some more details.
 
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Zao is life

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John cannot be seeing them in resurrected bodies (whatever you think that might be) since the dead body shall not be resurrected until an hour coming when the last trumpet sounds. That's also when time shall be no longer (Rev 10) John writes they LIVED and REIGNED (PAST TENSE) a thousand years, not ONE thousand years you seem to imply???

Yes, we all know by now that you have them living and reigning with Christ after they were beheaded, for 2,000 years before the beast that beheaded them rose from out of the bottomless pit and beheaded them, and for 2,000 years before the seventh trumpet sounded.

And you regard it as logical and call it scriptural.

We do know that already.
 

Timtofly

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No. They did not die that day. And God didn't say that they would die that day. He said, On the day that you eat of the tree, "dying you shall die." In other words, the day that they died, they would be lost forever. If someone is dead in their transgressions, the day they die they will be lost forever. If someone is alive in Christ, then the day they die is not the end of their story.
No soul is "lost forever" as you put it until cast in the LOF and removed from the Lamb's book of life. Adam and Eve are not lost until they stand at the GWT Judgment event mentioned in Revelation 20. That is if you still claim the are "dying you shall die". The first death is physical. The last death is cast into the LOF.

They did physically die. Their souls were taken out of God's permanent incorruptible physical body and placed in a temporal corruptible physical body of death, thus the term mortal. Adam's flesh is the flesh of death. All physical death is, at the end of their life, is God removing them from society, and they can no longer serve God for eternal reward, be it good or bad. Those who stand at that GWT will also be judged for their works:

"And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works."

So John starts out with books open, and then inserts a seperate book, the Lamb's book of life. God's redemption is being named in the book of life, but remaining in that book is still the decision each individual makes. God still does not redeem a soul because of their works. They were redeemed by the Atonement Covenant, the blood of Jesus on the Cross. The Second Death is awarded to all who choose at that point to be removed. The works judgment is related to their eternal punishment or reward, not exactly their destination. Remember Daniel saw some judged on that day who are proclaimed righteous.

The issue is that this is not the last judgment for the entire human race since the 6th day, as some declare. A thousand years earlier there was another judgment. The Cross was a judgment that allowed those OT redeemed to be set free from death and they were presented to God in Paradise. They left the confines of Abraham's bosom as souls and were given permanent incorruptible physical bodies.

The first resurrection is physical and the soul puts on a permanent incorruptible physical body. That body came out of the grave as Jesus declared, the same as Lazarus had that body when he was called out by Jesus from his grave. But that hour has been ongoing since 30AD. A redeemed soul is called out of their grave, this mortal body of death, at the moment the soul leaves earth and enters Paradise into a new permanent incorruptible physical body. Those in Christ were already rising first in Paul's day. For a person who follows Christ, born from above by submission to the Holy Spirit, the second birth, this body from Adam is our only grave.

We do not taste death having the second birth. The day of redemption is when the soul leaves death and enters eternal life. That has been a different point in time for each individual. That is not some future general resurrection. Those in Christ with the second birth can never taste death, so once physically dead, they have left death entirely, and are no longer considered "the dead". They are not physically dead nor spiritually dead, but are blameless, soul, body, and spirit. There is nothing they can do to change that fact once they have left Adam's dead corruptible flesh behind them. All in Paradise have experienced the first resurrection.

"Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power."

They have been serving God day and night in that heavenly temple since the Cross and Resurrection. That is not a future promise. That has been an ongoing reality since the first century. When the fulness of the Gentiles is complete, there will be an innumerable multitude from every generation since the Cross. But they are not waiting as souls in stasis somewhere. They have been translated out of death into life, and have that physical body those created on the 6th day have. It was only Adam and Eve's descendants who were mortals in a physical body of death. Those souls from Noah's day and spirits to whom Jesus preached to after dying on the Cross, were not all Adam's offspring. They were destroyed in the Flood, but waited in sheol until the Cross. They were not alive after the Flood, nor part of faith, nor the Law. But they were preached to in their punishment, and given the gospel in sheol. They had no excuse of not being allowed repentance, but they had to wait until the Cross to understand, and experience redemption. They rejected the safety of the ark to live on in sin, and they certainly did not repent, because they were all destroyed.

Some may argue that Noah preached redemption. Had any one or many too great to fit in the ark repented, perhaps the Flood would have not happened like in Nineveh, but we will never know, because no one joined those 8 and by faith entered the ark. No one of that wicked group were spared to live along side Noah and his family. The same is true about the Millennial Kingdom. Only the redeemed will live on earth. No one in Adam's dead corruptible flesh will be allowed to corrupt the Millennium.

Does no one get the reference to Peter's comparison of the Flood of water to the Baptism of fire of the Second Coming of Jesus as King? It will not take a thousand years to weed out this death. The winepress of God's wrath is the end of the road for Adam's punishment of sin and death. Only the redeemed come out on the other side of this Baptism of Fire. Just like only Noah and 7 others came out of the ark after the Flood. No other humans were spared hiding out somewhere. The redeemed sheep and wheat of the final harvest are who restore life on earth and subdue and multiply to fill the earth restored after that judgment of fire. 2 Peter 3:6-7

"Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men."

There is only one more time of judgment of earth, and prior to the Millennium. No judgment will be necessary after the Millennium. Creation will be whole not corrupt at the end. The only thing consumed by fire at the end are those humans who listen to Satan. Peter states the Day of the Lord comes, not ends in fire.

"But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up."

The destruction and cleansing happens at the start of the Millennium, not after this Day of the Lord. Nor will the entire day be filled with destruction and cleansing. The Trumpets and Thunders happen before the 7th Trumpet declares time to be fulfilled. Jesus is on the earth with this Baptism of Fire. The one John the Baptist declared when he was talking about Jesus.

"I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:"
 

rwb

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Why wouldn't they live again in a body of flesh after having been dead? If they don't ever do that how can they live forever in the new Jerusalem? Keeping in mind, if they already began living again as of the first resurrection, they don't need to live yet again in the future, as in 2 resurrections that they partake of altogether. Once Jesus was dead then lived again, was that in a body of flesh or not? Did He need to be resurrected twice meaning at different times?

It's not that faithful saints will never again live in a body of flesh, they will when the last trumpet sounds and they receive a resurrected body from the graves changed from mortal to immortal and corruptible to incorruptible. Now understand what else happens when the seventh trumpet sounds. John writes in Rev 10 that when the seventh trumpet begins to sound time shall be no longer. But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets. Premillennialists argue John sees these martyred souls physically alive AGAIN after they were martyred for their faith. But Scripture shows us that there will be NONE physically resurrected until an hour that is coming when the last trumpet sounds. You also argue a thousand years is one thousand years that will come after Christ comes again. But the return of Christ is the same time the dead are resurrected and those alive at His coming are caught up together with them to meet the Lord in the air.

1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 (KJV) For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Can you honestly continue to argue these martyred saints who have LIVED and REIGNED with Christ a thousand years before they were martyred will come to life again to live and reign with Christ for ONE thousand years? John certainly does not agree with Premillennial doctrine, and neither do I. Unless you can explain the inconsistencies found in your doctrine, I will continue to reject it. This doctrine does not come FROM the Bible, it is being READ INTO the Bible by folks who have been deceived and/or perhaps some who take delight in deceiving.
 

rwb

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So now, the fact John doesn't mention the first resurrection in verse 4, nothing in verse 4 is pertaining to the first resurrection? Is that what you are saying? Does this then mean you agree the first resurrection is the bodily resurrection of the saints after all? That's what it appears to me that you are arguing. That since verse 4 does not mention the first resurrection, it therefore is not involving a bodily resurrection but is meaning ascending to heaven with Christ as a spiritual body of believers.

The first resurrection is the resurrection of Christ. The only way we shall have everlasting eternal life is by partaking of His resurrection life. We do this not physically but spiritually. The martyred souls in vs 4 partook of the resurrection of Christ through faith they continued to cling to till the end of their lives during this time symbolized a thousand years. They were not resurrected to life again and will not be until an hour coming when the last trumpet sounds. But once Christ came and made atonement for sin and defeated death by His cross and resurrection, heaven was opened for all who physically die in faith. That's how they partake in the resurrection of Christ, through His Spirit they ascended to heaven with Christ because before He ascended to heaven, He first descended to the graves to set the captives free. These are the martyred souls John saw in heaven after death, they are a spiritual body of believers there as living souls.

Ephesians 4:8-10 (KJV) Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men. (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)

Like I've said probably about a million times now, there will be no physical body resurrection until an hour coming when the last trumpet sounds, and then time given the Church for building the spiritual Kingdom of God in heaven shall be no longer. There won't be another one thousand years given this earth after the bodily resurrection to immortality and incorruption.
 
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rwb

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Revelation 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Does not this verse mention the first resurrection? And not only does it mention that, it mentions reigning with Christ a thousand years, the very same thing verse 4 makes mention of. Obviously then, in verse 5 when it says this is the first resurrection, it is pertaining to verse 4 where verse 6 then adds some more details.

John has already shown us those who died in faith are souls spiritually alive in heaven after they were martyred for their faith. They took part in the first resurrection which is the resurrection of Christ by grace through faith. In vs 6 John writes of others who shall be with them because they too shall be faithful saints during this same time symbolized a thousand years. What John is showing us is the full embodiment of heaven from every nation, tribe, kindred and tongue. The same group he writes in Rev 7 as an innumerable multitude. The first resurrection I agree is not reference to the rest of the dead in vs 5, because their fate is shown us when the dead are called to stand before the judgment throne and give account according to what is written in the books and the book life.
 

rwb

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Yes, we all know by now that you have them living and reigning with Christ after they were beheaded, for 2,000 years before the beast that beheaded them rose from out of the bottomless pit and beheaded them, and for 2,000 years before the seventh trumpet sounded.

And you regard it as logical and call it scriptural.

We do know that already.

They do not live and reign with Christ in time AFTER they are martyred for their faith. They are spiritually alive in heaven as souls after they die. It is because they LIVED and REIGNED during this symbolic time, that they are souls in heaven a spiritual body of believers there. Like I said, we have to notice the tenses here.

Re 20:4 .... they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
 

Timtofly

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Yea, I’m not sure either. I’m leaning towards it being the Matthew 27:52-53 resurrection but that requires reading things into the text that aren’t there.
One could argue that Daniel saw through a darkened glass and not a clear explicit point in time. Not a single resurrection, but an ongoing future resurrection with a final endpoint. Jesus said an hour was coming, but now is. That is still an extended frame of reference. A resurrection in Jesus' day was the start of those righteous being resurrected first.

The other point is that Daniel was only talking about the dead in sheol and not those already redeemed while in Adam's dead corruptible flesh. The redeemed are not "the dead" at the GWT Judgment event. The redeemed stopped being "the dead" spiritually in the second birth, and physically in the first resurrection.

In Daniel 12:2, Daniel was only talking about the dead in sheol, who some still have a choice to accept God or reject God. Those who deny the dead a "second chance" or even a first chance, because being in sheol, they literally have no chance at all, may disagree. We have 3 places emptied out at this point: sheol, Death, and the sea. The sea meaning humanity in general symbolic throughout the book of Revelation. The sea could refer to those living before Noah's Flood. The sea could also refer to those just consumed by fire who were deceived by Satan after the millennium.
 

Davidpt

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not resurrected to life again and will not be until an hour coming when the last trumpet sounds.

Since I agree with what I quoted per your post above, it's simple then.


Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.


The time frame this is involving is the same time frame the following is involving.

Daniel 7:9 I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.
10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.
11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.
12 As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time.

Daniel 7:22 Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom.


There's the beginning of the thousand years, all of these verses I just submitted via Daniel 7. And what disproves Amil is this.

Daniel 7:21 I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them;


This precedes what I just submitted from ch 7. Which means these events in verse 21 precede the beginning of the thousand years. Clearly, that can't work with Amil since Amil has the beginning of the thousand years starting 2000 years ago and that Daniel 7:21 can't possibly fit anything prior to the beginning of the Amil proposed thousand years.

The chronology looks like this. The events involving Daniel 7:21 followed by the beginning of the thousand years. Therefore, it clearly matters where one places the beginning of the thousand years. As of the beginning of the thousand years, the 7th trumpet in question, it has already sounded, not instead, that it is yet to sound in the future. And since the 7th trumpet obviously hasn't sounded yet, the thousand years have not begun yet, either.

Daniel 7 per what I submitted from it is telling us that the time that comes when the saints possess the kingdom, it is meaning at the beginning of the thousand years. And that the thousand years are preceded by the events recorded in Daniel 7:21. Good luck getting that to fit with Amil when Amil has the beginning of the thousand years starting 2000 years ago. As if it makes sense that Daniel 7:21 can fit an era of time prior to Amil's proposed beginning of the thousand years.

What has been crossing my mind lately since the 7th trumpet obviously involves an era of time, the era of time that it is involving include the vials of wrath, the 2nd coming, the beast getting cast into the LOF, satan getting bound, then the thousand years, followed by satan's little season then he too being cast into the LOF and finally the GWTJ. IOW, it is at the end of all these things when the mystery of God is finished. Maybe that can work, maybe it can't, I just don't know. All I know is that it is something that has crossed my mind lately for some reason.
 
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grafted branch

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One could argue that Daniel saw through a darkened glass and not a clear explicit point in time. Not a single resurrection, but an ongoing future resurrection with a final endpoint. Jesus said an hour was coming, but now is. That is still an extended frame of reference. A resurrection in Jesus' day was the start of those righteous being resurrected first.

The other point is that Daniel was only talking about the dead in sheol and not those already redeemed while in Adam's dead corruptible flesh. The redeemed are not "the dead" at the GWT Judgment event. The redeemed stopped being "the dead" spiritually in the second birth, and physically in the first resurrection.

In Daniel 12:2, Daniel was only talking about the dead in sheol, who some still have a choice to accept God or reject God. Those who deny the dead a "second chance" or even a first chance, because being in sheol, they literally have no chance at all, may disagree. We have 3 places emptied out at this point: sheol, Death, and the sea. The sea meaning humanity in general symbolic throughout the book of Revelation. The sea could refer to those living before Noah's Flood. The sea could also refer to those just consumed by fire who were deceived by Satan after the millennium.
I don’t think an on going resurrection fits, here’s how I see it.

In Daniel 12:1 at that time shall Michael stand up. Here it implies that Michael doesn’t take a standing position until a specific time. In Revelation 12:7 Michael and his angels fight the dragon.

There are three options in regard to Michael.

  1. Michael fights the dragon in Revelation 12 while not standing. Unlikely
  2. Michael fights the dragon prior to the Daniel 12 vision. I think this option has too many hurdles to overcome.
  3. Michael fighting the dragon in Revelation 12 is the same event where he stands up in Daniel 12:1. This is the most reasonable option.
Since option 3 seems the most likely to me, Revelation 12 gives more information on when the Daniel 12:2 resurrection happened.

In Revelation 12:10 after the fight it says now is come salvation, strength, the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ. Vs 12 then says woe to the earth the devil has come to you, having great wrath, because he knows he has but a short time.

The other thing that needs to be considered is that Daniel 12:1 says and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. Matthew 24:21 has a similar statement, For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

If Daniel 12:1 is referring to a time of trouble in heaven and Matthew 24:21 is referring to tribulation on earth then these two events can happen at different times, otherwise they happen at the same point in time. Either way Daniel 12:1 says “at that time”, which is not an on going time period.

Ok, when I try to fit all this together, it seems that the Daniel 12:2 resurrection is the Matthew 27:52-53 resurrection. Matthew 27:52-53 uses the word “saints” for those being resurrected, Daniel 12:2 says “many of them” which I believe is referring back to “children of thy people” in Daniel 12:1. In Deuteronomy 33:1-3 Moses blessed the children of Israel and called them collectively saints, meaning both the believers and unbelievers.

My conclusion is that both believing and unbelieving Jews were resurrected in Matthew 27:52-53. Satan had a short time per Revelation 12:12 to attack the Jews on earth until their ultimate demise in 70AD.
 

Davidpt

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They do not live and reign with Christ in time AFTER they are martyred for their faith. They are spiritually alive in heaven as souls after they die. It is because they LIVED and REIGNED during this symbolic time, that they are souls in heaven a spiritual body of believers there. Like I said, we have to notice the tenses here.

Re 20:4 .... they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Here's a tense for you to explain.

which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands

What events explain how and when this martyrdom above happened if not what Revelation 13, for one, records? As to that chapter, obviously neither the beast nor satan are in the pit during the beast's 42 month reign. Which means that the beast has to ascend out of the pit before these can be martyred for the reasons mentioned---had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands. Clearly, this also matches the era of time Daniel 7:21 is involving. Meaning when they are initially martyred. Why is it then that Amil, or at least the versions I'm most familiar with, have the beast ascending out of the pit at the end of the thousand years when what I submitted from Revelation 20:4 above proves that it does not ascend out of the pit after the thousand years if it has already ascended out of it earlier in time?
 
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Davidpt

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  1. Michael fights the dragon in Revelation 12 while not standing. Unlikely
  2. Michael fights the dragon prior to the Daniel 12 vision. I think this option has too many hurdles to overcome.
  3. Michael fighting the dragon in Revelation 12 is the same event where he stands up in Daniel 12:1. This is the most reasonable option.

Your idea of most reasonable and my idea of most reasonable must be miles apart since I see nothing reasonable about any of these options including option 3 if one is trying to apply these things to something it can't possibly fit to begin with, meaning Daniel 12:1 in this case.
 
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grafted branch

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Your idea of most reasonable and my idea of most reasonable must be miles apart since I see nothing reasonable about any of these options including option 3 if one is trying to apply these things to something it can't possibly fit to begin with, meaning Daniel 12:1 in this case.
So are there two different Michaels?

If there is only one Michael then he stands up or takes a stand/position at a certain point in time in Daniel 12:1. When in time do you suppose he takes that stand?
 

Zao is life

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So are there two different Michaels?

If there is only one Michael then he stands up or takes a stand/position at a certain point in time in Daniel 12:1. When in time do you suppose he takes that stand?
One Michael who appears more than only once (which is made 100% clear by the scriptures below):

(1) Jude 1:9
But even when Michael the archangel was arguing with the devil and debating with him concerning Moses' body, he did not dare to bring a slanderous judgment, but said, "May the Lord rebuke you!"

(2) Daniel 10:12-14.
Don't be afraid, Daniel, for from the very first day you applied your mind to understand and to humble yourself before your God, your words were heard. I have come in response to your words. However, the prince of the kingdom of Persia was opposing me for twenty-one days.
But Michael, one of the leading princes, came to help me, because I was left there with the kings of Persia.

Now I have come to help you understand what will happen to your people in the latter days, for the vision pertains to future days."

Daniel 10:20-21
Do you know why I have come to you? Now I am about to return to engage in battle with the prince of Persia. When I go, the prince of Greece is coming. However, I will first tell you what is written in a dependable book. (There is no one who strengthens me against these princes, except Michael your prince).

Those latter days had not arrived when the above was written, but only later, after the prince of Greece had come:

(3) Daniel 12:1-4
At that time Michael, the great prince who watches over your people, will arise. There will be a time of distress unlike any other from the nation's beginning up to that time. But at that time your own people, all those whose names are found written in the book, will escape. Many of those who sleep in the dusty ground will awake - some to everlasting life, and others to shame and everlasting abhorrence. But the wise will shine like the brightness of the heavenly expanse. And those bringing many to righteousness will be like the stars forever and ever. But you, Daniel, close up these words and seal the book until the time of the end. Many will dash about, and knowledge will increase.

Daniel is also applying the above to the latter days of our time.

(4) When the Messiah had ascended:

Revelation 12:5-9
So the woman gave birth to a son, a male child, who is going to rule over all the nations with an iron rod. Her child was suddenly caught up to God and to his throne, and she fled into the wilderness where a place had been prepared for her by God, so she could be taken care of for 1,260 days. Then war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought back. But the dragon was not strong enough to prevail, so there was no longer any place left in heaven for him and his angels. So that huge dragon - the ancient serpent, the one called the devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world - was thrown down to the earth, and his angels along with him.

That's at least at four different times in history.
 
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grafted branch

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One Michael who appears more than only once (which is made 100% clear by the scriptures below):

(1) Jude 1:9
But even when Michael the archangel was arguing with the devil and debating with him concerning Moses' body, he did not dare to bring a slanderous judgment, but said, "May the Lord rebuke you!"

(2) Daniel 10:12-14.
Don't be afraid, Daniel, for from the very first day you applied your mind to understand and to humble yourself before your God, your words were heard. I have come in response to your words. However, the prince of the kingdom of Persia was opposing me for twenty-one days.
But Michael, one of the leading princes, came to help me, because I was left there with the kings of Persia.

Now I have come to help you understand what will happen to your people in the latter days, for the vision pertains to future days."

Daniel 10:20-21
Do you know why I have come to you? Now I am about to return to engage in battle with the prince of Persia. When I go, the prince of Greece is coming. However, I will first tell you what is written in a dependable book. (There is no one who strengthens me against these princes, except Michael your prince).

Those latter days had not arrived when the above was written, but only later, after the prince of Greece had come:

(3) Daniel 12:1-4
At that time Michael,the great prince who watches over your people, will arise. There will be a time of distress unlike any other from the nation's beginning up to that time. But at that time your own people, all those whose names are found written in the book, will escape. Many of those who sleep in the dusty ground will awake - some to everlasting life, and others to shame and everlasting abhorrence. But the wise will shine like the brightness of the heavenly expanse. And those bringing many to righteousness will be like the stars forever and ever. But you, Daniel, close up these words and seal the book until the time of the end. Many will dash about, and knowledge will increase.

Daniel is also applying the above to the later days of our time.

(4) When the Messiah had ascended:

Revelation 12:5-9
So the woman gave birth to a son, a male child, who is going to rule over all the nations with an iron rod. Her child was suddenly caught up to God and to his throne, and she fled into the wilderness where a place had been prepared for her by God, so she could be taken care of for 1,260 days. Then war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought back. But the dragon was not strong enough to prevail, so there was no longer any place left in heaven for him and his angels. So that huge dragon - the ancient serpent, the one called the devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world - was thrown down to the earth, and his angels along with him.

That's at least at four different times in history.
Yea, I agree there is only one Michael.

The war in heaven in Revelation 12, do you see this as a physical war or as a court room battle? Notice Jude 1:9 is an argument which could’ve taken place before a judge.