What is "OSAS"?

[Gabriel _Arch]

I can't figure how anyone would think Salvation isn't forever.

 

[Taken]

Scripture proves you to be a Liar.

1 Peter 3:21

False accusing Mary…
Scripture’s prove you to be ignorant…including;

1 Pet 3:
[21] The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

Baptism of the Holy Spirit doth NOW save us, WHO HAVE Receiv-ED the Baptism of the Holy Spirit.

A man dipping a man in water does not save a man.
A man sprinkling water on an other individual does not save the other.

Having a shower or bath, does not save a man.
A man can wash the filth off his flesh…repeatedly.

Only the Blood of the Lamb CLEANSES the filth of a man’s DEAD FLESH.

Basic Scriptural knowledge…for any to hear.
Understanding of the knowledge…
By, through, of men….(and Scripturally Cautioned)
or
By, through, of Christ the Lord Jesus….(and Scripturally Promoted)
Free will to choose.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

For that to be true - YOU have to give me an intelligent argument against the following verses that REFUTE OSAS . . .
Matt. 7:19-23, Matt. 10:22, Matt. 24:13, Matt. 25:31–46, John 15:1-6, Rom. 11:22, 1 Cor. 4:4, 1 Cor. 9:27, 1 Cor. 10:12, 1 Tim. 4:1, 1 Tim. 4:16, 2 Tim. 2:12, Heb. 3:6, Heb. 3:12-14, Heb. 6:4-6, Heb. 10:26-27, 2 Pet. 2:20-21, 2 Pet. 3:17, 1 John 2:24, 1 John 5:13, Rev. 3:5, Rev. 22:19

Typ – I receive the Eucharist, which is Jesus, who is the Brad of Life.
Wanna know HOW I know that? Because He said so.
Time for a Bible Lesson . . .

In John 6:53-56, Jesus states in NO uncertain terms:
“Amen, amen, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you.
Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him on the last day. For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me and I in him.”

It is interesting to note that the usual Greek word used for human eating is “phagon”. However, this is NOT the word used in these passages. John uses the word, “trogon”, which means, to munch or to gnaw and rip apart one’s food- like an animal. Jesus was again using hyperbole as he often did to drive his point across so that the crowd would understand that he was NOT speaking metaphorically. He meant what he said.

The crowd didn’t get it because they lacked faith in Him.
Jesus is not surprised by this and tells them:
John 6:53-55
The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you—they are full of the Spirit and life. Yet there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus had known from the beginning which of them did not believe and who would betray him. He went on to say, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled them.”

Jesus didn’t say. “What I’m telling you is just symbolic; MY flesh profits nothing.”
HIS flesh profits us everything because He is the perfect sacrifice before the Father.
He was telling those that refused to believe Him, “What I’m telling you IS spirit and life; your fleshly human thinking will get you nowhere.”
OUR flesh profits nothing.

Verse 66 tells us that most of them walked away from Him and returned to their former way of life.
They were the first Protestants.

Does Jesus explain anything to the Twelve – as He ALWAYS did? NO.
He simply turns to them and says, “Do you ALSO want to leave?”

Question:
If the Church believed and taught Christ's Real Presence in the Eucharist for some 1500 years and was STILL taught and believed by your Protestant Father – just WHEN did the rest of Protestantism become "enlightened" about it being a mere symbol?

Thats what I thought

Instead of eating the true bread of live where you can live forever. You eat the bread that you must eat over and over, and still are not assured you will live forever as Jesus promised whoever ate it would

News flash. Your church ruled the world for 1500 years. I would not expect anythign that went against them to be found

But hey, if you want to be a man follower. Feel free.

I will follow the word. I ate the bread from heaven.. I was born again, with the uncountable seed.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I can't figure how anyone would think Salvation isn't forever.

1. Pride
2. The flesh
3. Refusal to repent,
4. Refusal to truly look at the cross. Because you think you can still save yourself (even if you deny it)

 

[Taken]

@Eternally Grateful
Caution…You have a wicked spirit hot on your heels, accusing and demanding.

God is Faithful, to KEEP FOR EVER WITH HIM, the same whom He HAS Sanctified.

Heb 10:
[14] For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Eternally Grateful]

@Eternally Grateful
Caution…You have a wicked spirit hot on your heels, accusing and demanding.

God is Faithful, to KEEP FOR EVER WITH HIM, the same whom He HAS Sanctified.

Heb 10:
[14] For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

Glory to God,
Taken

if your talking about BoL I have had discussions with him before..

He is no threat.

 

[Gabriel _Arch]

1. Pride
2. The flesh
3. Refusal to repent,
4. Refusal to truly look at the cross. Because you think you can still save yourself (even if you deny it)

I wonder if they realize how doomed they are?

 

[Taken]

if your talking about BoL I have had discussions with him before..

He is no threat.

Gnats are not threats, but they can be continually annoying.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I wonder if they realize how doomed they are?

Probably not. It’s why they get so angry with us.

 

[Gabriel _Arch]

Probably not. It’s why they get so angry with us.

I think that's heartbreaking .

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I think that's heartbreaking .

Amen, it is..

Jesus thought the same thing I think when he wept over Jerusalem. I am sure he feels the same way about those who think his gift of eternal life is just a toy that can be lost also.

 

[Taken]

I wonder if they realize how doomed they are?

Doubt it.

Every warfare a man contends with IS spiritual.

Some men Completely Reject the spirit OF God, and by default are wide open for the influence of cunning and clever evil spirits.
(Should they still be alive in Gods end of days…they shall suffer a series of Wrath sent from God.)

Some men have the spirit OF God “with” them, YET, continue to Mind-fully consider the influence of cunning and clever evil spirits, continually wavering back and forth,
In agreement “with” the Spirit of God when it benefits them.
In agreement “with” evil spirits when it benefits them.
( Should they still be alive in Gods end of days, They shall suffer any portion of a series of wrath sent from God….That will stop or continue…fully dependent on THAT individual STOPPING playing the wavering game, fence sitting, and choosing one side or the other of WHERE he will stand…wholly with or without God.


Some men have the Supreme Power Spirit of God “with and IN” them, which allows NO ROOM for occupancy or influence of cunning and clever evil spirits.
( Should they still be alive in Gods end of days…they ARE exempted from suffering ANY Wrath…and are raised up above the face of the earth…(which is on the face of the earth, where Tribulation of God ARE sent).

It is a parallel to the FIRST time God destroyed the Earth with a Flood, and By Gods Power LIFTED UP 8 individuals FROM the Face of the Earth, that they would NOT suffer Gods Wrath sent down from Heaven Upon the face of the Earth.

Gen 6:
[7] And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.

Gen.7
[4] For yet seven days, and I will cause it to rain upon the earth forty days and forty nights; and every living substance that I have made will I destroy from off the face of the earth.
[18] And the waters prevailed, and were increased greatly upon the earth; and the ark went upon the face of the waters.

8 individuals were IN the ark that was raised up above the face of the earth.

How High were those 8 lifted upward?

[19] And the waters prevailed exceedingly upon the earth; and all the high hills, that were under the whole heaven, were covered.
[20] Fifteen cubits upward did the waters prevail; and the mountains were covered.

What is the measurement of “A cubit” ?
A cubit is a general measurement of a mans forearm length, from elbow to wrist.

I am not a math wizard, but there are online converters from inches (of a mans general forearms length), to cubits, that being 15 cubits in Scripture, calculates to approximately….22- 23 FEET the ark carrying within it 8 individuals was lifted above the mountain tops.

Any man TODAY who can SEE mountain tops and above mountain tops, CAN easily and routinely SEE clouds, surrounding and covering mountain tops, and above mountain tops.

Men upon the face of the Earth, during Gods sending Wrath upon the face of the Earth…
Should have the SAME expectation as it was in Noah’s day.

Luke 17:

[26] And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.
[27] They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.

Destroyed them all upon the face of the earth!

Excepted 8 who were lifted up above the face of the earth!

Someone IS in Heaven…(the Lord)
Someone IN Heaven shall descend to the Clouds (the Lord).
Someone IS with the Lord IN the Clouds.
(The Lords holy Servant, an archangel).
Someone blows a signal. (An archangel blows a Trumpet)
Someone is being signaled, can hear the signal, and responds to the signal. (Those IN Christ hear the signal / Trump, respond to the signal / Trump, by bodily Rising up to the Clouds to meet….who IN the air / clouds?
(Their Lord).

WHY? Because LIKE Noah, they were not appointed to suffer the Wrath God sends DOWN from Heaven UPON the face of the Earth and its inhabitants.

THUS…”as” / like Noah they shall be lifted bodily up ABOVE the face of the Earth.
How high? Above the mountain tops, to the Clouds.

WHY? They are NOT appointed to suffer Wrath.

1 Thes 5:
[9] For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

WHO ARE “THEY”….
They ARE the “US” who HAVE obtained Salvation by their Lord Jesus Christ.


Rom 1
[18] For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

* A truth of man IN unrighteousness…
IS complete rejection of God.
^ doomed.

* A truth of man IN unrighteousness…
IS the wishy washy man, with God when it benefits him, with evil and wickedness when it benefits him
^ might be saved, might be doomed.

* A truth of man IN righteousness….
IS the man who has completely submitted his whole (body, soul, spirit) unto Gods Truth and been Given Gods gift of Sanctification.
^ is saved, is not appointed to wrath, is appointed to be risen up off the face of the Earth during the days of Wrath sent down from Heaven.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Marymog]

False accusing Mary…
Scripture’s prove you to be ignorant…including;

1 Pet 3:
[21] The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

Baptism of the Holy Spirit doth NOW save us, WHO HAVE Receiv-ED the Baptism of the Holy Spirit.

A man dipping a man in water does not save a man.
A man sprinkling water on an other individual does not save the other.

Having a shower or bath, does not save a man.
A man can wash the filth off his flesh…repeatedly.

Only the Blood of the Lamb CLEANSES the filth of a man’s DEAD FLESH.

Simply amazing. You quote the passage from Scripture that says "baptism doth also now save us" and then in the next paragraph you write the words "Baptism of the Holy Spirit doth NOW save us". You LITERALLY added to (twisted) Scripture to fit what YOU believe. UNBELIEVABLE.....

None the less, I get the gist of your argument. To pour, dip in or sprinkle mere water over a person does not save them. Time for a lesson of your own Christian history. And it goes back much further than the teachers from 500 years ago...your Protestant fathers who lied to you to fit what they believe.....Just like you did as proven above.

When God created, his Spirit moved over the face of the waters, and then he spoke his Word (Genesis 1:1-2).

The Israelites were saved by the waters of the Red Sea. We see water bringing forth death, for those who brought about slavery and life, for those who were in slavery. Paul mentions that in 1 Corinthians 10 saying that all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea. What are clouds made of Taken? What is the sea made of Taken? WATER.....

In Ezekiel 36 it says I will sprinkle clean water upon you, and you shall be clean from all your uncleannesses, ,,,,A new heart I will give you, and a new spirit I will put within you...". Hmmmm.....water AND Spirit AND sprinkling....of which you say sprinkling of water means nothing. It meant something to God otherwise He wouldn't have put it in Scripture.

Go and wash in the Jordan seven times, and your flesh shall be restored, and you shall be clean. Then went he down, and dipped himself seven times in Jordan, according to the saying of the man of God: and his flesh came again like unto the flesh of a little child, and he was clean. According to Taken dipping in water does nothing. But according to Scripture it does. Is taken right or is Scripture right?

Peter equates the event of the flood in 1 Peter 3:20-21. During these events God uses water to wash away the sinners and water is used to save Noah and his family.

So YOU can believe your men and accept their interpretation of Scripture that water means nothing. But clearly to God, it means something. He made that VERY clear to us thru His word of which you deny and twist to your own destruction.

Mary

 

[Marymog]

Peter is comparing salvation in the ark and baptism. In both instances, believers are carried through the waters of judgment, not the act of conferring salvation upon someone. The mere mechanical act of baptism does not save, for Peter explicitly says, "not as a removal of dirt from the body," meaning that the passing of water over the body does not cleanse anyone. It is, as I said, an outward sign of an inward reality, as I said above. Paul is reiterating, in slightly different words, what he says in Ephesians 2 and his other letters, that God saved us, not because of works but by the washing and renewal of the Holy Spirit, which cannot happen just by our water baptism, even as Peter says.


Grace and peace to you, Mary

You are right. The mere act of pouring mere water over a person does nothing. It's called a bath. But when one is baptized using the Trinitarian method, it does something; Just like Scripture says. That is what Peter was saying. Baptism is NOT the removal of dirt from the body (a bath).

Baptism (with water), which corresponds to this (the water that saved Noah and his family), now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body (it's not a bath to wash dirt off you, it's greater than that) but as an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

Now it is time for a lesson on water AND Spirit in Scripture.

When God created, his Spirit moved over the face of the waters, and then he spoke his Word (Genesis 1:1-2).

The Israelites were saved by the waters of the Red Sea. We see water bringing forth death to those who brought about slavery and life to those who were in slavery. Paul mentions that in 1 Corinthians 10 saying that all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea. What are clouds made of? What is the sea made of? WATER.....

In Ezekiel 36 it says I will sprinkle clean water upon you, and you shall be clean from all your uncleannesses, ,,,,A new heart I will give you, and a new spirit I will put within you...". Hmmmm.....water AND Spirit AND sprinkling....of which you say sprinkling of water means nothing. It meant something to God otherwise He wouldn't have put it in Scripture.

Go and wash in the Jordan seven times, and your flesh shall be restored, and you shall be clean. Then went he down, and dipped himself seven times in Jordan, according to the saying of the man of God: and his flesh came again like unto the flesh of a little child, and he was clean.

Peter equates the event of the flood in 1 Peter 3:20-21. During these events God uses water to wash away the sinners and water is used to save Noah and his family.

So deny all you want that water baptism does nothing nor means nothing. God makes it clear in Scripture that it does mean something. Follow your men as they twist Scripture to their own destruction. I will continue to pray for you.

Mary

 

[Marymog]

Only the Blood of the Lamb CLEANSES the filth of a man’s DEAD FLESH.

Blood can cleanse me but water can't? Please explain....

Thank you.....Mary

 

[Marymog]

Thats what I thought

Instead of eating the true bread of live where you can live forever. You eat the bread that you must eat over and over, and still are not assured you will live forever as Jesus promised whoever ate it would

News flash. Your church ruled the world for 1500 years. I would not expect anythign that went against them to be found

But hey, if you want to be a man follower. Feel free.

I will follow the word. I ate the bread from heaven.. I was born again, with the uncountable seed.

Hey EG,

Where do I get this bread of life that will make me live forever? You say that you ate the bread from heaven. I don't understand what that means. Can you clarify that?

Thank you in advance......Mary

 

[Marymog]

@Eternally Grateful
Caution…You have a wicked spirit hot on your heels, accusing and demanding.



Glory to God,
Taken

WOW...are you suggesting that @BreadOfLife is a wicked spirit????????

Curious Mary

 

[Marymog]

I can't figure how anyone would think Salvation isn't forever.

It is forever. After you do the works (the bible way) to obtain it.

 

[Raccoon1010]

It is forever. After you do the works (the bible way) to obtain it.

There are two justifications, faith and works, both are used in the bible since not everyone has works. But for them that can labor in the field it is necessary probably. Matthew 20:1-16

 

[PinSeeker]

You are right.

Yes. :) But it's not about me. But... to what you say here... yes. :)

Ohhhhh, boy. I thought you were done. Oh well, on we go, I guess... :)

The mere act of pouring mere water over a person does nothing.

I wouldn't say that, and never have. But it doesn't save. God saves. Even when we were dead in our trespasses ~ as Paul says ~ He made us alive together with Christ. We did not make ourselves alive in Christ, nor did a priest or pastor or any other human being make us alive by pouring water on is (or sprinkling it on our heads, as is the case in many churches). We ~ and this is Paul again ~ are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works. With man this is impossible, but with God, nothing is impossible. But to your statement here, water baptism is not worthless by any stretch of the imagination. It's just not effectual unto salvation. And ~ although based on what Peter says in Acts 2:28 this should not be the case ~ is probably most often done in response to having been saved (we often call this "believer's baptism"). There's nothing wrong with that, really, but, well, following when God commanded circumcision on male children in the Old Testament, which was at eight days old, children of believers should be baptized as early as possible, as the promise is, as Peter says, for us and our children.

Baptism (with water), which corresponds to this (the water that saved Noah and his family), now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body (it's not a bath to wash dirt off you, it's greater than that) but as an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ...

As I said, the water did not save Noah and his family in the sense of conferring salvation on him (or his family), but rather in the sense of sustaining their lives through the judgment of the flood. Noah himself, long before the flood, was a righteous man, blameless in his generation, and... walked with God (Genesis 6:9). He had already been saved/redeemed/made alive by the Lord.

Now it is time for a lesson on water AND Spirit in Scripture.

LOL! This is probably not going to go the way you want it to... :)

When God created, his Spirit moved over the face of the waters, and then he spoke his Word (Genesis 1:1-2).

Okay, sure...

The Israelites were saved by the waters of the Red Sea.

A couple of things here: First, surely you don't think Moses was not already saved... And second, the Israelites passed through the see on dry land and were protected from the waters, which after the Isrealites were through, killed the Egyptians. So in much the same way as Noah above... :) Oh, and hey, Moses was protected from Pharoah by floating in the Nile ~ water ~ in the basket made by his mother. This is how he got his very name; Pharoah's daughter named him Moses because as she said, she “drew him out of the water.”

We see water bringing forth death to those who brought about slavery and life to those who were in slavery. Paul mentions that in 1 Corinthians 10 saying that all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea. What are clouds made of? What is the sea made of? WATER.....

Hm. :) Well let's look at that passage, shall we? :) "For I do not want you to be unaware, brothers, that our fathers were all under the cloud, and all passed through the sea, and all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea, and all ate the same spiritual food, and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank from the spiritual Rock that followed them, and the Rock was Christ." This is about protection and sustenance, Mary. Not salvation itself. So... same as above. :)

In Ezekiel 36 it says I will sprinkle clean water upon you, and you shall be clean from all your uncleannesses, ,,,,A new heart I will give you, and a new spirit I will put within you...". Hmmmm.....water AND Spirit

Ah, yes, NOW we are talking about salvation, administered by God. Jesus is referring directly to this passage in His conversation in John 3 with Nicodemus, as you may know. So yes, water and the Spirit... In John 3, by what Jesus says, we can immediately see that “born of water and the Spirit” (3:5) is parallel to “born again” (3:5); you agree with that, I understand; but yes, Jesus’s use of “born of water and the Spirit” is Jesus’s explanation of what He means by “born again.” Jesus refers to Nicodemus as "the teacher of Israel" (3:10), so I think we can safely say that Nicodemus knew very well that Jesus was referring to Ezekiel 36. And in doing so, Jesus is telling Nicodemus that God was promising, through the prophet Ezekiel, that a time was coming when there would be a transformative new beginning, characterized by spectacular cleansing symbolized by water that washes away all impurities and idols, and by the powerful gift of the Spirit that transforms the hearts of people. And obviously, Jesus was telling Nicodemus that that time is now here. And it still is, of course. This is what being born of water and the Spirit... being born again.

AND sprinkling....of which you say sprinkling of water means nothing.

Yet again, I have never said such. It has great meaning in several ways when referred to in a Biblical, Christian context. It just does not save. This is all I have ever said, Mary.

Go and wash in the Jordan seven times, and your flesh shall be restored, and you shall be clean. Then went he down, and dipped himself seven times in Jordan, according to the saying of the man of God: and his flesh came again like unto the flesh of a little child, and he was clean.

Ah, Naaman. Such a great story. It's all about God's power to save... At the suggestion of his wife’s Jewish servant girl, Naaman arranged to meet with the prophet Elisha. Elisha told this distinguished Gentile to “go and wash in the Jordan seven times, and your flesh shall be restored, and you shall be clean.” But Naaman went away in anger. Why? He thought the waters of Syria to be superior to the waters of Israel. And he also was clear about his expectations for his meeting with Elisha, saying, "Behold, I thought that he would surely come out to me and stand and call upon the name of the LORD his God, and wave his hand over the place and cure the leper. Are not Abana and Pharpar, the rivers of Damascus, better than all the waters of Israel? Could I not wash in them and be clean?" (2 Kings 5:11–12) Naaman was obviously expecting some sort of spectacular display that affirmed Elisha as an oracle of “his” God and some grand gesture to show the divine power at work in him. But only the God of Israel ~ the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob (Isreal) ~ can save. Luke refers to Naaman's story in chapter 4 of his gospel, saying, "...there were many lepers in Israel in the time of the prophet Elisha, and none of them was cleansed, but only Naaman the Syrian” (Luke 4:27). Our water baptism does not save. God saves.

Peter equates the event of the flood in 1 Peter 3:20-21.

Right, and he says it saves us, "not as a removal of dirt from the body..." (as literal water would; not in this sense) "...but as an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ" (but rather in this sense). When we are baptized, we make this appeal ourselves (or on behalf of our infant children when they are baptized). Surely you would agree that we do not save ourselves, right? The outward sign of water baptism is unquestionably a good thing, but it is a sign given to us that we might have a good conscience, and even that our faith, the assurance given by God and the conviction by the Holy Spirit of things unseen (Hebrews 11:1), might even be strengthened. It is an outward sign of the covenant, a sacrament, given to us for our own benefit and that of others. But water baptism does not itself save us or redeem us to God.

During these events God uses water to wash away the sinners and water is used to save Noah and his family.

Right, but again, regarding Noah and his family, to save them in the sense of preserving their lives and not "washing them away with the sinners"... :)

So deny all you want that water baptism does nothing nor means nothing.

Yet again... I never said or insinuated such...

God makes it clear in Scripture that it does mean something.

Sure. But you ~and "your men"... lol... and this is not just a Catholic thing ~ inadvertently take it out of context. See above.

I will continue to pray for you.

Well, thanks; I'll pray for you, too, Mary. Yes, we all need prayer, for sure...

Grace and peace to you, Keeping It Re ~ uh, I mean, Histor ~ sorry, I mean, um, well, Mary. :)