What is "OSAS"?

[BreadOfLife]

thats ok, It is found in the word.

Actually – it’s NOT.

The problem with OSAS believers is that you cherry-pick the Scriptures to find individual references that are out of context.
HOWEVER, when we read the Word of God in its proper CONTEXT – which is the enemy of most protestant inventions – we don’t see this Protestant fallacy.

The Scriptures warn us over and over and over again that we must remain faithful, lest we LOSE our security.
Matt. 7:19-23, Matt. 10:22, Matt. 24:13, Matt. 25:31–46, John 15:1-6, Rom. 11:22, 1 Cor. 4:4, 1 Cor. 9:27, 1 Cor. 10:12, 1 Tim. 4:1, 1 Tim. 4:16, 2 Tim. 2:12, Heb. 3:6, Heb. 3:12-14, Heb. 6:4-6, Heb. 10:26-27, 2 Pet. 2:20-21, 2 Pet. 3:17, 1 John 2:24, 1 John 5:13, Rev. 3:5, Rev. 22:19

 

[Marymog]

We? Ha, you don’t speak FOR me.
That would be “YOU” not “we”, who said that.

The “We” I am brothers with, Listen to the TRUTH, and KNOW their TRUTH is JESUS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (The multiple and unnecessary punctuation marks for your benefit of common elementary understanding).

Dear confused Taken,

I didn't speak for you kiddo.....I asked you a question!

 

[Taken]

Great. We agree that we must follow His example and get water baptized. Pretty simple and really NO MORE than that. We must follow His example if we are to be like Him.

Yes, we agree water baptism is a sacrament. A sacrement is a Christian rite that has been ordained by Christ

According to Scripture it IS salvific: 1 Peter 3:21.

When we do what He tells us to do OR what we do what the Apostles tell us to do, it also saves us. If we don't do what they told us to do, we will not be saved.

When we follow His example, we are also saved. If we don't follow His example, we will not be saved.

So your opinion that baptism doesn't save is false on all three fronts with the highest evidence of your false teaching being 1 Peter 3:21 in which it says "baptism now saves you".

Where you are going wrong is that your men taught you that an act of man does not save another man. One can NOT baptize themselves; it takes the act of another man to do that. The sacrament of anointing of the sick is in the bible. Scripture says to call an elder to convey that sacrament. You cannot self-anoint with oil.

Mary

John’s water Baptism was NOT for Saving a man.

Men baptize men with Water. It matters none and has NO effect (For or Against a mans Salvation) IF a man IS or IS not Baptized with water.

The Forgiveness of God, IS Spiritual, IS made POSSIBLE, By, Through, OF….Jesus’ BLOOD, (not water)
Which men can not see,( you don’t get a call, a text, a letter, a certificate, a widdle gold sticker), from God.

One malefactor hanging next to Jesus was NOT Baptized with Water, YET with his brief poignant confession of Belief, Jesus Himself revealed that man was SAV-ED.

 

[Marymog]

Oh but it does, we are Born Again of the Holy Spirit, that is biblical,

Only a Born Again can see the Kingdom of God, thats scripture.

You must be Born of water and the Spirit.

Water is the human birth.

Born of God is the birth from our Father via the Holy Spirit.

Baptised in water..is the declaration, which we do in obedience and is symbolic....to the New birth...we have gone from the old life, into the new life..

That new spirit filled life is in Christ and as his word says.

​

◄ Romans 8 ►

​

Berean Standard Bible Par ▾ Walking by the Spirit (Ezekiel 36:16–38; Galatians 5:16–26) 1Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.a2For in Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set youb free from the law of sin and death. 3For what the law was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful man, as an offering for sin.c He thus condemned sin in the flesh, 4so that the righteous standard of the law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5Those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh; but those who live according to the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit. 6The mind of the flesh is death, but the mind of the Spirit is life and peace,7because the mind of the flesh is hostile to God: It does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. 8Those controlled by the fleshd cannot please God. 9You, however, are controlled not by the flesh, but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ. 10But if Christ is in you, your body is dead because of sin, yet your spirit is alivee because of righteousness. 11And if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the deadf will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit, who lives in you. Heirs with Christ 12Therefore, brothers, we have an obligation, but it is not to the flesh, to live according to it. 13For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. 14For all who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God. 15For you did not receive a spirit of slavery that returns you to fear, but you received the Spirit of sonship, by whom we cry, “Abba! Father!” 16The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are God’s children. 17And if we are children, then we are heirs: heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ—if indeed we suffer with Him, so that we may also be glorified with Him. Future Glory (2 Corinthians 5:1–10) 18I consider that our present sufferings are not comparable to the glory that will be revealed in us. 19The creation waits in eager expectation for the revelation of the sons of God. 20For the creation was subjected to futility, not by its own will, but because of the One who subjected it, in hope 21that the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to decay and brought into the glorious freedom of the children of God. 22We know that the whole creation has been groaning together in the pains of childbirth until the present time. 23Not only that, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies. 24For in this hope we were saved; but hope that is seen is no hope at all. Who hopes for what he can already see? 25But if we hope for what we do not yet see, we wait for it patiently. 26In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. For we do not know how we ought to pray, but the Spirit Himself intercedes for us with groans too deep for words. 27And He who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints according to the will of God. God Works in All Things (Ephesians 1:3–14) 28And we know that God works all things together for the good of those who love Him, who are called according to His purpose. 29For those God foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brothers. 30And those He predestined, He also called; those He called, He also justified; those He justified, He also glorified. 31What then shall we say in response to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? 32He who did not spare His own Son but gave Him up for us all, how will He not also, along with Him, freely give us all things? 33Who will bring any charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies. 34Who is there to condemn us? For Christ Jesus, who died, and more than that was raised to life, is at the right hand of God—and He is interceding for us. More than Conquerors (Psalm 44:1–26) 35Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall trouble or distress or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword? 36As it is written: “For Your sake we face death all day long; we are considered as sheep to be slaughtered.”g 37No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him who loved us.38For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor principalities, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, 39neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

In none of those passages does it say what you believe; that a person who is baptized in water (born again) has direct contact with God via the Holy Spirit.

Non the less....thank you for your time.

 

[Marymog]

Men baptize men with Water. It matters none and has NO effect (For or Against a mans Salvation) IF a man IS or IS not Baptized with water.

Scripture proves you to be a Liar.

1 Peter 3:21

 

[PinSeeker]

Calvin: He believed that people were born into sin but could be saved by God's grace if they were "elected" which was drastically different from the teachings of the Catholic Church.

Yes, it was different than the Catholic Church (and Pelagius), for sure. :) But very much the same as St. Augustine, who, oddly enough, Catholics revere...

But far more importantly, Moses demonstrates in Genesis 3 that all are born into sin (Adam and Eve took on this state as a result of the fall, and we are all born into this same state, which is the very strong implication of Moses' words particularly in Genesis 3:20, that Eve is "the mother of all the living" (Genesis 3:20). And David says this even of himself saying, "Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, and in sin did my mother conceive me" (Psalm 51:5), and Paul says it over and over again of born again Christians in all his letters, e.g,. "And you were dead in the trespasses and sins in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience ~ among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind. But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ..." As a result of the fall, this deadness in sin is the natural human condition from birth. Thus, our all-encompassing need for salvation, which He provides through the death of Christ Jesus, Who thus is our Savior, on the Cross.

He also believed that they could not lose that salvation.

Which, once given, will not be taken away. For believers, there is no more condemnation (Romans 8:1), and nothing can separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord (Romans 8:37-39). Paul says this after having written the first seven chapters of Romans about how bad off we were, even that we (along with the rest of mankind) were slaves of unrighteousness and sin but now have been set free from sin (by God) and have become slaves of God to righteousness (Romans 6:20-23). This, Mary, is the Gospel ~ Good News indeed.

He believed in the separation of church and state and in sending Christians out as missionaries.

Sure, that we should not rely on the state to do the work of the church. And vice versa, actually. Not sure what the issue is here...

He viewed the bread and wine of the Eucharist to be spiritually the body and blood of Christ.

Sure, and not the actual body and blood. Certainly pointing to it, and reminding us every time we partake of the sacrifice that Christ made ~ was, actually ~ on our behalf. And by partaking, we proclaim His death until He comes again. Yeah, transubstantiation is... silly. :) Not to say that the eucharist, or communion, or the Lord's supper, or whatever you want to call it is "silly," but like baptism, it is a sacrament, an outward sign, and... well, all the stuff I said above about water baptism applies here, too.

To be continued... :)

 

[BreadOfLife]

Fair enough, but, Protestant or Catholic (or any other -ant or -ic... or -ist or -ian or -ite... :)), I find it astounding, really, and yes, sad, that so many Christians think along the lines you are thinking here.


And this is puzzling for a slightly different reason, but the result is still the same. What James says is absolutely true, of course...

Note: especially in view of the concept of Sola Scriptura... :)... and Biblically, as Jesus Himself says, "Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that comes from the mouth of God" (Jesus quoting from Deuteronomy 8:3, Matthew 4:4)​

This doesn’t support the Sola Scriptura fallacy.
WHERE in the Bible does it say that the Bible is the entire word of God??

The Bible tells us that God speaks through His CHURCH (Matt. 16:18-19, Matt. 18:15-18, Luke 10:16, John 20:21-23) – and I’ll PROVE it to you.

The Canon of Scripture itself was not declared until the 4th century – and it was declared by the Church, guided by the Holt Spirit (John 16:12-14).
GOD spoke through His Church to give the world the Canon.

...but our good works, works that God honors and are glorifying to Him rather than condemned as self-serving, are the product of and thus directly follow our having received this God-given, salvific faith. In other words ~ as James is crystal clear in saying ~ if one does these good works but does not have this God-given, salvific faith but rather a "faith" that is dead, then the works are worthless in God's eyes.

Grace and peace to you.

WRONG.

James isn’t saying that works are a “byproduct” of faith. He is saying that works are an essential element of faith. Faith = Belief + Surrender/Obedience, which includes works.

As Paul informs us – these are the works that God prepared for us in advance. They’re not OUR works – so we can’t take credit for them (Eph. 2:8-9). The works people do in order to try and “earn” salvation are worthless, as the people in Matt. 7:21 found out.

As Jesus shows us in the lesson of the Sheep and the Goats (Matt. 25:31-46), Faith is a LIVING this - not a one-time event . . .

 

[Marymog]

One malefactor hanging next to Jesus was NOT Baptized with Water,

Really? I can't find anywhere in Scripture where it says that he was NOT baptized. Can you share that passage with me?

If you can't (and i know you can't) then you are ONCE AGAIN giving your opinion.....

 

[Marymog]

To be continued... :)

Please don't continue.

I said all the reformers disagree with each other. You said that was untrue and asked for examples. I gave those examples that PROVED YOU WRONG. And now you want to go on a long winded explanation about what they believed and how you disagree with them....I DON"T CARE!!

Just admit you were wrong........

 

[PinSeeker]

Zwingli: He sought to change how church services were conducted. Rather than a traditional mass, a Communion service took place in churches.

Do you mean to draw a distinction between the eucharist of Catholic churches and the communion, or the Lord's supper in Protestant churches? I see no real difference here, except maybe in the sense of transubstantiation, which I addressed above.

He disagreed with the idea of purgatory.

Sure. Because it's silly. :) And being bought out of purgatory by "indulgences," which is... silly. :) Very much along the same lines as Martin Luther...

He also believed that Christ's actual blood and body were not present in the Eucharist elements and were merely symbols.

And he was right, as were Luther and Calvin. Don't you mean to be stating differences in the beliefs of the Reformers rather than similarities of such? :) I thought that's what I asked you to do...

Luther: He believed that salvation came from faith and not from a person's good works or their church membership.

Right, reiterating what Paul wrote (among many other things Paul wrote) in Ephesians 2, as I've said many times now, that "by grace (we) have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand..."

He disagreed with the Catholic Church selling indulgences and questioned the authority of the Pope.

Sure he did. "Indulgences" and "purgatory" are silly.

Now, regarding the Pope and his authority... As you know, I'm sure, Paul says "there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment" (Romans 13:1-2). But Paul, of course, is speaking generally of all earthly authority, but not necessarily saying that all those that exercise authority of any kind will do so well, and according to God's ultimate authority. As a citizen of the United States, I recognize and submit to the authority of government at all levels (city, county, state, and federal), but this does not take away my right to question it... and even protest against it... and even leave it if I find it necessary.

He promoted the idea of Christians performing good works.

Sure he did. All Christians should, of course. And again, we're talking about the outward evidence of the faith we've been given. In this sense, we make our calling and election ~ which we've already been given ~ sure, and evident to all, even to ourselves.

He agreed with the church on the Eucharist, and believed in transubstantiation (that the elements become the literal body and blood of Christ).

Ah, now, I would doubt this. I do think it's very possible that he did at one time and came to believe otherwise. But these are opinions, it seems, yours and mine.

Historical Mary

Hmmm... :) How about Opinionated Mary? :) And to that end, I don't mind you calling me "Opinionated PinSeeker." :)

Grace and peace to you.

 

[PinSeeker]

Please don't continue.

That's exactly what I would say to you. :) But you seem to not be concerned about that and continue anyway, according to your own will, so I will do the same. Or not, if I so choose. :)

I said all the reformers disagree with each other.

And you're wrong about that; see above. But, we can agree to disagree, surely, right?

I gave those examples that PROVED YOU WRONG.

LOL! See above... :) But hey, I respect your opinion :) To what you say here, I would submit to you that all the "examples" you offered fall under the heading of the things covered by one or more of the five Solas of the Reformation, which, by definition, all the Reformers held to. I mean really, all five hang together, and cannot really be separated, because they all really fall under the one heading of the fifth, "Soli Deo Gloria," to God alone be the glory. That one is the fifth, the last one, for a much bigger reason that just that '5' comes right after '4.' So again, to what you say here, I say, "No... not so much, no..." :)

And now you want to go on a long winded explanation about what they believed and how you disagree with them....I DON"T CARE!!

Okay, but in saying this, I think it's quite obvious that you do in fact care. :) But we can leave off at any time... :)

Just admit you were wrong....

LOL! Right back atcha... :)

LOL... Cheers...

Sorry... just having a little fun with you, Mary. Surely that's possible... :)

Grace and peace to you, Mary.

 

[Ritajanice]

In none of those passages does it say what you believe; that a person who is baptized in water (born again) has direct contact with God via the Holy Spirit.

Non the less....thank you for your time.

Oh but it does...

Only, one needs to be Born Again...otherwise they are carnal, have no understanding of God’s word.

As his word says,..

 

[Gabriel _Arch]

Is that what you want to do?

It means that if you've been born again from God, that you will never be "unborn". However, the detractors if OSAS will apply it to those who have disengenuously made some profession of faith, "said a prayer", and though nothing spiritually changed for them, the claim is made, "Now you are saved/Now I am saved", and the matter is considered settled.

Much love!

Great explanation.

 

[L.A.M.B.]

Great explanation.

Welcome to the boards!

 

[Gabriel _Arch]

Welcome to the boards!

Thanks.

 

[Rockerduck]

Really? And what did He say to you?

After 40 years there are too many conversations to list. He told me to tell everyone "Before it gets low, says the Lord". He is coming soon. and He will bring everything low.

Isaiah 13:11 - “I will punish the world for its evil,
And the wicked for their iniquity.
I will halt the arrogance of the proud, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible

Jesus also said there will not be any place on earth that a bomb will not hit.

Isaiah 13:13 -
I will make a mortal more rare than fine gold,
A man more than the golden wedge of Ophir.
13 Therefore I will shake the heavens,
And the earth will move out of her place,
In the wrath of the Lord of hosts
And in the day of His fierce anger.

 

[Marymog]

That's exactly what I would say to you. :) But you seem to not be concerned about that and continue anyway, according to your own will, so I will do the same. Or not, if I so choose. :)


And you're wrong about that; see above. But, we can agree to disagree, surely, right?


LOL! See above... :) But hey, I respect your opinion :) To what you say here, I would submit to you that all the "examples" you offered fall under the heading of the things covered by one or more of the five Solas of the Reformation, which, by definition, all the Reformers held to. I mean really, all five hang together, and cannot really be separated, because they all really fall under the one heading of the fifth, "Soli Deo Gloria," to God alone be the glory. That one is the fifth, the last one, for a much bigger reason that just that '5' comes right after '4.' So again, to what you say here, I say, "No... not so much, no..." :)


Okay, but in saying this, I think it's quite obvious that you do in fact care. :) But we can leave off at any time... :)


LOL! Right back atcha... :)

LOL... Cheers...

Sorry... just having a little fun with you, Mary. Surely that's possible... :)

Grace and peace to you, Mary.

Unbelievable............

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Actually – it’s NOT.

The problem with OSAS believers is that you cherry-pick the Scriptures to find individual references that are out of context.
HOWEVER, when we read the Word of God in its proper CONTEXT – which is the enemy of most protestant inventions – we don’t see this Protestant fallacy.

The Scriptures warn us over and over and over again that we must remain faithful, lest we LOSE our security.
Matt. 7:19-23, Matt. 10:22, Matt. 24:13, Matt. 25:31–46, John 15:1-6, Rom. 11:22, 1 Cor. 4:4, 1 Cor. 9:27, 1 Cor. 10:12, 1 Tim. 4:1, 1 Tim. 4:16, 2 Tim. 2:12, Heb. 3:6, Heb. 3:12-14, Heb. 6:4-6, Heb. 10:26-27, 2 Pet. 2:20-21, 2 Pet. 3:17, 1 John 2:24, 1 John 5:13, Rev. 3:5, Rev. 22:19

Oh it is

Have you eaten the bread of life yet. that one can neat and not die. They will live forever. And never hunger. they have eternal life and will be raised by Jesus

or are you still eating that wafer that people eat continually and have no assurance they will not die. and still hunger and thirst?

 

[PinSeeker]

Unbelievable............

My sentiments exactly. :)

Grace and peace to you.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Oh it is

For that to be true - YOU have to give me an intelligent argument against the following verses that REFUTE OSAS . . .
Matt. 7:19-23, Matt. 10:22, Matt. 24:13, Matt. 25:31–46, John 15:1-6, Rom. 11:22, 1 Cor. 4:4, 1 Cor. 9:27, 1 Cor. 10:12, 1 Tim. 4:1, 1 Tim. 4:16, 2 Tim. 2:12, Heb. 3:6, Heb. 3:12-14, Heb. 6:4-6, Heb. 10:26-27, 2 Pet. 2:20-21, 2 Pet. 3:17, 1 John 2:24, 1 John 5:13, Rev. 3:5, Rev. 22:19

Have you eaten the bread of life yet. that one can neat and not die. They will live forever. And never hunger. they have eternal life and will be raised by Jesus

or are you still eating that wafer that people eat continually and have no assurance they will not die. and still hunger and thirst?

Typ – I receive the Eucharist, which is Jesus, who is the Brad of Life.
Wanna know HOW I know that? Because He said so.
Time for a Bible Lesson . . .

In John 6:53-56, Jesus states in NO uncertain terms:
“Amen, amen, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you.
Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him on the last day. For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me and I in him.”

It is interesting to note that the usual Greek word used for human eating is “phagon”. However, this is NOT the word used in these passages. John uses the word, “trogon”, which means, to munch or to gnaw and rip apart one’s food- like an animal. Jesus was again using hyperbole as he often did to drive his point across so that the crowd would understand that he was NOT speaking metaphorically. He meant what he said.

The crowd didn’t get it because they lacked faith in Him.
Jesus is not surprised by this and tells them:
John 6:53-55
The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you—they are full of the Spirit and life. Yet there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus had known from the beginning which of them did not believe and who would betray him. He went on to say, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled them.”

Jesus didn’t say. “What I’m telling you is just symbolic; MY flesh profits nothing.”
HIS flesh profits us everything because He is the perfect sacrifice before the Father.
He was telling those that refused to believe Him, “What I’m telling you IS spirit and life; your fleshly human thinking will get you nowhere.”
OUR flesh profits nothing.

Verse 66 tells us that most of them walked away from Him and returned to their former way of life.
They were the first Protestants.

Does Jesus explain anything to the Twelve – as He ALWAYS did? NO.
He simply turns to them and says, “Do you ALSO want to leave?”

Question:
If the Church believed and taught Christ's Real Presence in the Eucharist for some 1500 years and was STILL taught and believed by your Protestant Father – just WHEN did the rest of Protestantism become "enlightened" about it being a mere symbol?