What is "OSAS"?

[Marymog]

I... didn't say you were.

You didn't say I was preaching or teaching (as a woman) but you were referring to post #270 where you said that women are not to preach or teach men in a worship/church setting. Were you not?

Stop playing games with me......

 

[Marymog]

I've learned only a fool follows the doctrine of man.

Help me out here RWB. The definition of doctrine is 'a principle or position or the body of principles in a branch of knowledge or system of belief; Dogma; Church Doctrine

So either you follow the doctrine of other men OR you create your own doctrine. I know you don't think yourself a fool so you don't follow the doctrine of other men or men that are the elders of a church sooooo you follow your own doctrine. Correct?

But YOU are not a fool if you follow your (a man I presume) doctrine? Hmmm........

 

[Marymog]

So let me turn the question on you, from whom does your understanding of Scripture come from? What man/denomination has taught you?

The men of The Church.

 

[Marymog]

Yes, we are called to submit to those who have authority over us.

Who has authority over you?

 

[Marymog]

Sure. I didn't say otherwise, nor would I. Other Christians, who, as I said, don't have to be elders or deacons.

Hopefully so, yes. In our church, there is certainly a thorough and intentional vetting process that takes place prior to anyone being called and ordained as an elder/deacon. And personally, hopefully there is a personal vetting process that one prayerfully conducts in choosing mentors for oneself; this was certainly true for me).

Ok PinSeeker....So we clearly have a disagreement between us and Scripture says we are to take our differences to The Church so it can decide. Which church would you like to go to so that we can settle this difference? Yours or mine?

 

[Marymog]

Yes.


No, not necessarily; that was your addition, which you attributed to me as my inevitable conclusion. Ergo... putting words in my mouth.


Hmmm... :)

Grace and peace to you.

Nope, not my addition. It is a logical conclusion from YOUR WORDS. If you mean something different than my conclusion then please explain yourself.

Patient Mary

 

[rwb]

Help me out here RWB. The definition of doctrine is 'a principle or position or the body of principles in a branch of knowledge or system of belief; Dogma; Church Doctrine

So either you follow the doctrine of other men OR you create your own doctrine. I know you don't think yourself a fool so you don't follow the doctrine of other men or men that are the elders of a church sooooo you follow your own doctrine. Correct?

But YOU are not a fool if you follow your (a man I presume) doctrine? Hmmm........

Sorry to disappoint you, but I follow the doctrine that comes from the Word of God! I would hope that we all follow after the doctrine we have learned from Holy Scripture, and not the doctrines that come from men. It's not that we must not listen to others, many of whom have far greater knowledge of biblical doctrine than I do. BUT we must NOT believe what is taught us simply because we think that person is a Christian and shows much intellect. We MUST study the Bible ourselves, and compare what we may be taught to what is written in the Word of God.

Don't label me with something you do. Apparently, you are following the doctrines of other men, or you are creating your own doctrine??? I don't believe you consider yourself a fool either, soooo why are you following the doctrine of men, or doctrine you think is biblical because it's what you believe?

When we arrive at an understanding of biblical doctrine we believe to be truth, we should compare it with similar thoughts and teaching found in other verses and passages! But never assume we have rightly divided the Word of God for doctrinal understanding using only one or two verses that appear to support what we think it teaches us.

 

[rwb]

The men of The Church.

If you are relying on them for biblical truth, you better start praying they have all truth. Of course, how would you know if they do or not since you are depending on them without studying to show yourself approved unto God, a workman who need not be ashamed!

 

[rwb]

Who has authority over you?

My ultimate authority is the Word of God! If my elders are not in agreement with the Word of God, or they give advise that goes against biblical doctrine, then I would be a fool to listen to them. And I would look for a Covenant body of believers, called Church where the leadership of the Church is more in line with truth.

 

[PinSeeker]

You didn't say I was preaching or teaching (as a woman) but you were referring to post #270 where you said that women are not to preach or teach men in a worship/church setting. Were you not?

Stop playing games with me.....

No "games"... <eyeroll>

How do these two things correlate to you, Mary? I mean, how? Do you consider you and me (and other posters, maybe), now, in a worship or church setting? And regardless of your answer to that, I don't consider you to be preaching or teaching, as I said. I don't even get how you would ask such questions. Sounds a bit like you're playing Pin the Tail on the Donkey... :) ...looking for some kind of "gotcha" moment, I guess... :)

So we clearly have a disagreement between us and Scripture says we are to take our differences to The Church so it can decide. Which church would you like to go to so that we can settle this difference? Yours or mine?

LOL! You can certainly go to your church if you want; I won't be accompanying you. LOL!

Hey, facetiously... :) Do you (and all the persons you ever disagree with on anything) take every difference of opinion you have with anybody to "The Church?" Surely not... LOL!

In that Matthew 18 passage, Mary, Jesus specifically mentions sin against the offended party ("If your brother sins against you..."). Opinion differences do not constitute sin. So, that we have differences of opinion does not automatically mean sins have been committed one way or the other between us. Right? I really don't consider you to have sinned against me, so in my view, there is nothing to take to any church. LOL!

Nope, not my addition.

Okay, well, we'll just call it... an invalid ~ or maybe unwarranted ~ inference. LOL!

It is a logical conclusion from YOUR WORDS.

Ah! Well, in your opinion. Okay, well, the "logical conclusion" you came to was false. :)

If you mean something different than my conclusion then please explain yourself.

I did. You probably disagree. I'm okay with that. :)

Patient Mary

Ah yes. LOL!

Grace and peace to you, Mary.

 

[Marymog]

How do these two things correlate to you, Mary? I mean, how? Do you consider you and me (and other posters, maybe), now, in a worship or church setting? And regardless of your answer to that, I don't consider you to be preaching or teaching, as I said. I don't even get how you would ask such questions. Sounds a bit like you're playing Pin the Tail on the Donkey... :) ...looking for some kind of "gotcha" moment, I guess... :)




Grace and peace to you, Mary.

No, we are not in a church service or setting. But you really don't care to hear my answer since you said "regardless of your answer". So why ask?

I told you why I asked such a question. Because of your previous reference in post #270.

 

[Marymog]

My ultimate authority is the Word of God! If my elders are not in agreement with the Word of God, or they give advise that goes against biblical doctrine, then I would be a fool to listen to them. And I would look for a Covenant body of believers, called Church where the leadership of the Church is more in line with truth.

Which means that YOU will always be the arbiter of Truth and YOU are never the fool.

 

[Marymog]

If you are relying on them for biblical truth, you better start praying they have all truth. Of course, how would you know if they do or not since you are depending on them without studying to show yourself approved unto God, a workman who need not be ashamed!

And you rely on YOU for biblical truth........

 

[Marymog]

Sorry to disappoint you, but I follow the doctrine that comes from the Word of God!

You follow doctrine according to YOUR interpretation of God's word.....

 

[Marymog]

I would hope that we all follow after the doctrine we have learned from Holy Scripture, and not the doctrines that come from men. It's not that we must not listen to others, many of whom have far greater knowledge of biblical doctrine than I do. BUT we must NOT believe what is taught us simply because we think that person is a Christian and shows much intellect. We MUST study the Bible ourselves, and compare what we may be taught to what is written in the Word of God.

You (a man) follow doctrine that you (a man) taught yourself (a man) from Scripture.

I'm sure you do listen to others and then YOU decide if they are right or wrong because YOU are better at studying and interpreting the bible than they are!!

 

[PinSeeker]

No, we are not in a church service or setting.

Well, great, we agree on something! LOL...

But you really don't care to hear my answer since you said "regardless of your answer". So why ask?

It's not that I don't care what you have to say, Mary. All I said was whether your answer is yes or no ~ whether you agreed that we were in a worship/church setting or not ~ I didn't consider you to be preaching or teaching. Good grief.

I told you why I asked such a question. Because of your previous reference in post #270.

Right, concerning you're being wrong in your "logical conclusion" to what I had said; hence, no reason to even ask such a question. Again, good grief.

Grace and peace to you, Curious ~ I mean, Patient ~ I mean, Mary. :)

 

[rwb]

Which means that YOU will always be the arbiter of Truth and YOU are never the fool.

But praise God, I have help through prayer and Christ's Spirit in me. When I err in understanding I find these to be my most valuable assets.

John 14:26 (KJV) But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

1 John 2:27 (KJV) But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

 

[rwb]

And you rely on YOU for biblical truth........

You follow doctrine according to YOUR interpretation of God's word.....

You (a man) follow doctrine that you (a man) taught yourself (a man) from Scripture.

I'm sure you do listen to others and then YOU decide if they are right or wrong because YOU are better at studying and interpreting the bible than they are!!

You're beginning to sound like a broken record, and clanging cymbal! If you want to continue to rely on mankind for understanding of Scripture that's your prerogative. I've come to assume you have never learned how to study the Word of God, and are therefore dependent upon others to lead. The Bible calls that being a child in understanding, and never growing to mature faith and doctrine.

 

[Ezra]

LOL…you speaking FOR me…what I have NOT said, is FAR from real….it is called lying.

they have to be right somehow :cool:

 

[Ezra]

Stop playing games with me......

is there anything you dont know?