Since more children and people have been killed by Israel than in the terrorist attack, should they stop?

[marks]

No, as I just pointed out. He will only bring them back after they are saved. So you are left with the Balfour declaration.

In fact, the OT prophets foretell a time before Jesus' return, when the very same people group as lived in Israel back then, will be there.

Much love!

 

[ScottA]

What delusion is that?

The "strong delusion" and great apostacy foretold by Paul; foretold also by Peter saying that "false teachers" would enter into the church spreading "destructive doctrines"; the time of which John confirmed was then "already in the world." All of which was and is a biblical certainty...and therefore undeniable. Yet many do deny it.

The cause--and I believe what you were actually asking about--was and is the believing of the "lie" rather than believing what Jesus actually said regarding His return as being "quickly" and "soon" and "at an hour you do not expect.." Which has grown into the popular and most commonly believed "gap" theory regarding Daniel's 70 weeks prophecy.

 

[dad]

I always find it funny how Islamist apologists project the evil Islamists do on Israel, White race, etc. You'd have to go back 4,000 years to support the claim that Israel were the invaders. And even then, it was at the direct command of almighty God.

No, when God commanded it it was good. You need to separate unsaved Jews from those who are saved and considered His people because of belief. When they disbelieved and worshiped other gods etc He gave them the boot. The only time He brings them back and is their King and God is after they get saved.

 

[dad]

In fact, the OT prophets foretell a time before Jesus' return, when the very same people group as lived in Israel back then, will be there.

Much love!

Yes, I know. And sure enough, there they are! Too bad He never brought them there though and told them to take what they want and kill civilians etc. Now if you claim He brought them there in 1948 provide the clear proof.

 

[dad]

Well said.

There is more that gives them the right, like the 6-day war. Funny how Islamists only recognize the Right of Conquest when they are doing the conquoring. When they get conquored ...

A war gave them the right?

 

[ScottA]

No, when God commanded it it was good. You need to separate unsaved Jews from those who are saved and considered His people because of belief. When they disbelieved and worshiped other gods etc He gave them the boot. The only time He brings them back and is their King and God is after they get saved.

You are stumbling over the timing.

• When did the act of salvation by Christ occur?
• And who was saved according to the promise?
• When "were" we who are saved by Christ crucified--what do the scriptures say? Have I not quoted it?

The key word is "were." We "WERE" crucified with Christ (past tense). Meaning, there is no future "time He brings them back."

 

[marks]

Yes, I know. And sure enough, there they are! Too bad He never brought them there though and told them to take what they want and kill civilians etc. Now if you claim He brought them there in 1948 provide the clear proof.

I must be an exceptionally poor communicator!

Much love!

 

[dad]

???

No, you aren't understanding what I'm telling you. There was a land in the Middle east that pretty much no one cared about.

Tens of thousands or was it hundreds of thousands got forced out. They did not care??

It was a Jewish homeland,

It was many things over time. It was the homeland of those Israel took the land from also, no?

but now, after so much abuse, the land was virtually ruined.

You could look at many places and say that. I hear Russia kind of over polluted and did not make a lot of places look pretty. Some would say the communists ruined it as well. Does that mean it is fair game to boot all the people out? How about North Korea? Congo? Who said you get to decide who deserves to be shoved out of their homes?

But even so, some Jews began to want to go there. There was plenty of room. I think some put estimates of a total population of about 6,000. No one took anything from anyone, there was plenty of land, only, it was desert and swamp.

The refugees then came from where? Your numbers seem to be wrong. "In 1948, more than 700,000 Palestinian Arabs – about half of prewar Palestine's Arab population – fled from their homes or were expelled by Zionist militias" -wiki
If the 700,000 was half of the population how do you say the total was 6000?

So they started to reclaim the land, and they did, bit by bit.

Maybe say they started to claim land.

No one had to leave. All were considered Palestinians, because they all lived in Palestine.

So half the population was delusional and no one was forced? They left land and houses because they wanted to be homeless refugees?

I would think wiki is closer on the reasons

"Factors involved in the exodus include Jewish military advances, destruction of Arab villages, psychological warfare, fears of another massacre by Zionist militias after the Deir Yassin massacre,[19]: 239–240  which caused many to leave out of panic, direct expulsion orders by Israeli authorities, the demoralizing impact of wealthier classes fleeing,[20] the typhoid epidemic in some areas caused by Israeli well-poisoning,[21] collapse in Palestinian leadership and Arab evacuation orders,[22][23] and a disinclination to live under Jewish control.

As more and more land was reclaimed, their agriculture grew,

Naturally, the more land you grab the more you can farm.

and more Jordanians and Egyptians came in to work the crops. And everyone was welcome, no one had to leave, no one was stealing anything from anyone.

Hebrews used to work in Egypt I recall as well. Maybe the conditions were not what they should be though. In this case more desperation that outright slavery perhaps.

The WW2, and mass Aliyah, and the formation of the Jewish State, Israel. And when they declared statehood, everyone was welcome, no one was stealing anything from anyone. (I don't mean this absolutely, but in the way we are talking)

If you already have the lands what is there left to steal exactly?? If everyone was welcome how come people in Gaza are not welcome or can even leave?

There are Arabs even now participating in Israel's government in a variety of roles, including their parliament.

Not uncommon for inmates to help run a prison.

But then came the Arab wars of aggression, the "get out of the way" into the camps, hopefully I'm presenting a more full picture of what happened.

Now when people try to free the victims they are the aggressors?

 

[dad]

You are stumbling over the timing.

• When did the act of salvation by Christ occur?
• And who was saved according to the promise?
• When "were" we who are saved by Christ crucified--what do the scriptures say? Have I not quoted it?

The key word is "were." We "WERE" crucified with Christ (past tense). Meaning, there is no future "time He brings them back."

Yes there is He promises to restore them to that land and destroy their enemies.

 

[dad]

I must be an exceptionally poor communicator!

Much love!

It may not be the communication that is the issue

 

[dad]

The "strong delusion" and great apostacy foretold by Paul; foretold also by Peter saying that "false teachers" would enter into the church spreading "destructive doctrines"; the time of which John confirmed was then "already in the world." All of which was and is a biblical certainty...and therefore undeniable. Yet many do deny it.

The cause--and I believe what you were actually asking about--was and is the believing of the "lie" rather than believing what Jesus actually said regarding His return as being "quickly" and "soon" and "at an hour you do not expect.." Which has grown into the popular and most commonly believed "gap" theory regarding Daniel's 70 weeks prophecy.

I see, so the preachers I cited in your opinion are in apostasy. Since they are all good on abortion and Pre Trib Rapture and other things I never viewed it that way. I considered that they were wrong on one point.

 

[ScottA]

Yes there is He promises to restore them to that land and destroy their enemies.

No, not that land, not that temple of stone, and no not that body of flesh.

You are not hearing what the Spirit says to the churches.

 

[ScottA]

I see, so the preachers I cited in your opinion are in apostasy. Since they are all good on abortion and Pre Trib Rapture and other things I never viewed it that way. I considered that they were wrong on one point.

The scriptures say the effects are not few, but many--even "great." But no, none of this is my "opinion."

 

[dad]

No, not that land, not that temple of stone, and no not that body of flesh.

You are not hearing what the Spirit says to the churches.

Ezekiel 37:14 And shall put my spirit in you, and ye shall live, and I shall place you in your own land: then shall ye know that I the Lord have spoken it, and performed it, saith the Lord

 

[dad]

The scriptures say the effects are not few, but many--even "great." But no, none of this is my "opinion."

So basically it is your opinion (whatever you want to call it) that preachers like that who are wrong on one point are in apostasy. You were wrong on the point that God will not bring Jews back to the land when they are saved.

 

[ScottA]

Ezekiel 37:14 And shall put my spirit in you, and ye shall live, and I shall place you in your own land: then shall ye know that I the Lord have spoken it, and performed it, saith the Lord

Exactly!

 

[dad]

Exactly!

But you don't think land means land right?

 

[ScottA]

So basically it is your opinion (whatever you want to call it) that preachers like that who are wrong on one point are in apostasy. You were wrong on the point that God will not bring Jews back to the land when they are saved.

Your assessment of my would-be "opinion"--although it is not my opinion, is not accurate. I did not say that. And now, because you misunderstand and misstate me, should I repeat myself?

No, I do not consider the lack of full knowledge from God "apostacy" on the part of many of those who wrongly teach. Those who see in part have nonetheless been led astray by destructive doctrines just as it is written. They are but victims.

No, I was not wrong about the Jews. The house of Israel to whom Christ first came, He "finished" with. As for Jewish descendants, their inheritance is not the inheritance of the dead, but of the living, in which case they to may believe and be saved. Yet even many of them are also victims, which God has not abandoned or condemned, but has preserved their salvation for the last day.

 

[ScottA]

But you don't think land means land right?

You are not paying attention.

I said, "not that land."​

And get with the program-- Does "Lamb" mean lamb? Does "bread" mean bread? Need I go on?

 

[dad]

No, I do not consider the lack of full knowledge from God "apostacy" on the part of many of those who wrongly teach. Those who see in part have nonetheless been led astray by destructive doctrines just as it is written. They are but victims.

OK so let's register this as your actual opinion?

No, I was not wrong about the Jews. The house of Israel to whom Christ first came, He "finished" with.

Says...who? Prophesy tells us there is oodles of things He still does with them.